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Do i have to move around a friendly vehicle, or could i move my infantry on top of a rhino ? I wouldnt move through it, thats not allowed. I would treat it like a piece of scenery, and add vertical plus horizontal distance to get on top of it.

The movement rules are : "A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery."

No. If you can't move through a model, how can you move on top of a model?

There are no vehicles. Only models with different rules.

You can't just treat a model as a piece of scenery.

p5freak wrote:
Do i have to move around a friendly vehicle, or could i move my infantry on top of a rhino ? I wouldnt move through it, thats not allowed. I would treat it like a piece of scenery, and add vertical plus horizontal distance to get on top of it.

The movement rules are : "A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery."

Your quoted text answers your own question.
No.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
No. If you can't move through a model, how can you move on top of a model?

Because i am not moving through it ? I'm moving on top of it.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

There are no vehicles. Only models with different rules.

Thats odd. My index says the rhino is a vehicle.

Cool man, guess I'll pile my guys in on top of your models so I can get more in range to fight then. I'm not moving through your model, I'm moving on top of it.

p5freak wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
No. If you can't move through a model, how can you move on top of a model?

Because i am not moving through it ? I'm moving on top of it.

Yes, you are. How else would you get on top of another model, if not moving through the space it blocks?

p5freak wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:

There are no vehicles. Only models with different rules.

Thats odd. My index says the rhino is a vehicle.

No, your Rhino has the Keyword 'Vehicle'. It's still a model. If you're of a different opinion, please quote the Core/Advanced rules for vehicles for me.

You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

The VEHICLE keyword doesn't mean it doesnt move and shoot and CC like any other infantry or other model in the game. Some weapons and abilities will have abilities that only proc when a VEHICLE is involved. Nothing about the keyword itself has any inherent special rules the way 7th did/had monstrous creatures all have like 4-6 special rules that weren't in the codex but in the BRB.....

If you couldn't walk your model on top of a Greater Demon of Nurgle, there is nothing about having the keyword VEHICLE that will grant you the ability to do so either.

 Blackie wrote:
You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

Where would one find that in the rulebook?

 Ghaz wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

Where would one find that in the rulebook?

I think you won't find it at all. Destroyed models are removed, if I remember correctly (but I didn't check before posting).

For what it's worth, I'd probably let my opponent place models on top of vehicles. The Tactical Squad Marine with the missile launcher getting up onto the Rhino for a better shot makes sense from a fluff perspective and, let's be honest, it does look cool!
Of course, the complications this brings with it as soon as said vehicle wants to start moving might make the whole thing suddenly seem less apealing.

Snugiraffe wrote:

Of course, the complications this brings with it as soon as said vehicle wants to start moving might make the whole thing suddenly seem less apealing.

Basically this. Plus it opens the door for other things. Such as piling in on top of enemy models to get more models in range to fight or charging over enemy/friendly vehicles to deny overwatch to units on the other side.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

Where would one find that in the rulebook?

Not disagreeing, I just really wish the whole 'vehicle stays as terrain' thing existed. But as it stands they go poof even if they don't blow up which is stupid.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

Where would one find that in the rulebook?

Not disagreeing, I just really wish the whole 'vehicle stays as terrain' thing existed. But as it stands they go poof even if they don't blow up which is stupid.

Last editions vehicle wrecks were all over the field with the rare exception. Now they've entirely vanished.

Suggested Optional Rule: If a Vehicle rolls to explode, on an unmodified roll of 1 do not remove the model. Mark the vehicle to represent that it is a Wreck or replace it with a Crater. It is now a piece of battlefield terrain.

Jacksmiles wrote:Cool man, guess I'll pile my guys in on top of your models so I can get more in range to fight then. I'm not moving through your model, I'm moving on top of it.

To bad you have to stay 1" away from enemy models.

Hanskrampf wrote:No. If you can't move through a model, how can you move on top of a model?

Like you would move infantry on a piece of scenery. See here, example one : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/735347.page The model wants to move on top of the tower, the distance is 7". The model is not moving through the scenery. It moves towards the tower, then climbs up vertically.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

No, your Rhino has the Keyword 'Vehicle'. It's still a model. If you're of a different opinion, please quote the Core/Advanced rules for vehicles for me.

The rulebook update 1.1 says that vehicles must be setup on the ground floor of ruins, and they can only end their movement at the ground floor. Loosely translated from german, i dont have the english version. There are rules for vehicles.

Snugiraffe wrote:
For what it's worth, I'd probably let my opponent place models on top of vehicles. The Tactical Squad Marine with the missile launcher getting up onto the Rhino for a better shot makes sense from a fluff perspective and, let's be honest, it does look cool!

Yes, it does look cool.

Jacksmiles wrote:
Plus it opens the door for other things. Such as piling in on top of enemy models to get more models in range to fight or charging over enemy/friendly vehicles to deny overwatch to units on the other side.

You cant charge over enemy units, you must keep 1" distance.

A strict Rule Lawyer answer would be to underline the part where it says you can move vertical to transfer scenery, and point out the Model in question is not scenery.
But... and this is the kicker... from that sort of reading as well, I would highlight a very important word that is missing from the sentence: Horizontally.

Sure, it goes on to grant permission to move Vertically in order to go over scenery, but the model already has permission to move in 'any direction' as stated prior in the Rule. Due to the fact that Up and Down are common directions, there is nothing stopping us from moving the Model vertically upwards and leaving it hovering mid-air from a Rule as Written point of view. Gravity, after all, is a real world problem that we can overcome by using rules such as Wobbly Model Syndrome and a gullible opponent. Yet... at this point I need to feel the urge to remind everyone that this is not a new problem at all, Game Workshop has always had a problem writing Rules involving three dimensions so why should we assume today would be any different.

Remember: Every reference to 'Base' is a deliberate attempt to get rid of the three dimensional nature of a Model....

Of Course:
I do not give you consent to use Wobbly Model Syndrome to levitate Models in midair... thus my own argument for levitating Models is now nullified.

Imma just start piling Pathfinders on top of a Stormsurge then, so they can markerlight over everything...

Imma claim that objective by crowd surfing your troops, fair right?

p5freak wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:Cool man, guess I'll pile my guys in on top of your models so I can get more in range to fight then. I'm not moving through your model, I'm moving on top of it.

To bad you have to stay 1" away from enemy models.

What are you talking about? Pile in is part of the fight phase, not movement phase. If I'm not in base contact with your model, by moving on top I get closer to your model as part of my pile in, and I'm following your own guidelines of "it's not moving through models."

Jacksmiles wrote:
Plus it opens the door for other things. Such as piling in on top of enemy models to get more models in range to fight or charging over enemy/friendly vehicles to deny overwatch to units on the other side.

You cant charge over enemy units, you must keep 1" distance.

Oh wow you got me there, guess I'll revise that to just charging over friendly vehicles then


Automatically Appended Next Post:

p5freak wrote:

Hanskrampf wrote:No. If you can't move through a model, how can you move on top of a model?

Like you would move infantry on a piece of scenery. See here, example one : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/735347.page The model wants to move on top of the tower, the distance is 7". The model is not moving through the scenery. It moves towards the tower, then climbs up vertically.

Except a model is not scenery.

Unfortunately from a strict RAW perspective OP is right moving on top of friendly models violates no rules of movement. 1 Models can be moved in any direction including diagonally. 2 can't be moved through terrain or models, a diagonal move takes care of that. As long as no part of the infantry's base move farther than it's move characteristic and it's not and enemy model that's the only rules for movement we have.

Man I'm sorry to say but from the grenade in CC thread you wrote I formed the opinion that you're TFG that wants to do nonsensical stuff in the game all the time because you read Da Vinci Code once and now think every sentence in the rulebook has an hidden secret meaning that rewards people who overthink.

No it doesn't.

The movement rule says you can move your models vertically, in order to climb or traverse scenery. A vehicle is not scenery so therefore you can't even begin thinking about moving vertically over it because nothing says you can. You can't place your model on another model, a vehicle is a model, therefore you can't do that.

I don't know how you find people willing to play against you with the lack of common sense and tricks you're trying to pull out.

So I can create a tower of models, stacking one model on top of another, to get a bird's eye view of the whole table?

Sounds stupid.

Rhino-surfing is not a thing in 8th.

 Blackie wrote:
You can place a model on top on a destroyed vehicle though. If that rhino gets wrecked it becomes a piece of terrain and you can move you models on top of it if you want.

That may have been a thing in some past editions, but it's not part of this edition. RAW the model is removed.

Snugiraffe wrote:

I think you won't find it at all. Destroyed models are removed, if I remember correctly (but I didn't check before posting).

For what it's worth, I'd probably let my opponent place models on top of vehicles. The Tactical Squad Marine with the missile launcher getting up onto the Rhino for a better shot makes sense from a fluff perspective and, let's be honest, it does look cool!
Of course, the complications this brings with it as soon as said vehicle wants to start moving might make the whole thing suddenly seem less apealing.

It comes down to the context of the game you're playing and who you're playing it with. In a friendly, fun game with friends, I'll be fine with leaving destroyed vehicles on the table as scenery, and probably even be fine with climbing on top of the Rhino as house rules. Playing a game with people I don't know well, or in a competitive environment? Nope.

No, you can't. It's that simple.

Yes you can the stepping into the new edition faq says you must measure in three dimensions. The base rules says you can move in any direction. I wish this wasn't true but from RAW this is what happens when you condense your rules down to 5 pages. If you say it doesn't make logical sense a fixed gun turret firing through it's own vehicle at a target doesn't make sense either. Try to find in that movement section something that says you cannot place it on top of a friendly model. I would love to be proven wrong.

The trolls seem to be out in force today.

 Hades wrote:
Yes you can the stepping into the new edition faq says you must measure in three dimensions. The base rules says you can move in any direction. I wish this wasn't true but from RAW this is what happens when you condense your rules down to 5 pages. If you say it doesn't make logical sense a fixed gun turret firing through it's own vehicle at a target doesn't make sense either. Try to find in that movement section something that says you cannot place it on top of a friendly model. I would love to be proven wrong.

Ok... Core Rules page 3

It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery.

This says you can move vertically to traverse scenery; you have no permission to move vertically to climb your own models.

 Hades wrote:
Unfortunately from a strict RAW perspective OP is right moving on top of friendly models violates no rules of movement. 1 Models can be moved in any direction including diagonally. 2 can't be moved through terrain or models, a diagonal move takes care of that. As long as no part of the infantry's base move farther than it's move characteristic and it's not and enemy model that's the only rules for movement we have.

2. If you move diagonally to get on top of a rhino, you have just floated around. We don't get to just float around. You would have to move straight up and straight over, like OP is trying to insist is okay.

Again, though, this just means I'm putting my models on top of yours when I pile in during the fight phase to make sure more of my horde is in range to attack.

But you don't have to move through it. You can move in any direction so you can move on an angle that doesn't clip the think in any way.

 Hades wrote:
But you don't have to move through it. You can move in any direction so you can move on an angle that doesn't clip the think in any way.

Diagonally through the air, then? Okay lol. Who needs the ground anyway?

Everything here is still a no, though. Unless you want me throwing my models on top of yours in the fight phase. You have permission to walk on scenery, not on models.