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 Hades wrote:
But you don't have to move through it. You can move in any direction so you can move on an angle that doesn't clip the think in any way.

Except you're not given permission to move vertically except to traverse scenery. A rhino is not scenery.

Hades, you asked for proof and I gave it on Page 1, and BCB has repeated the same above. Your idea is not valid, sorry dude.

Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

 Hades wrote:
Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

No, you are not. The rule was quoted for you.

 Hades wrote:
Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

So now everything can fly. Great news for my movement phase, I'll never need to measure both horizontally and vertically again, I can just diagonal it up from the ground to the 2nd floor.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

So now everything can fly. Great news for my movement phase, I'll never need to measure both horizontally and vertically again, I can just diagonal it up from the ground to the 2nd floor.

Go flat out and jump your Leman Russ' over forests too

Go reread the "stepping into the new edition" faq. It's full of things to shake the 7th edition dust off you. "All distances a measured in three dimensions."

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

So now everything can fly. Great news for my movement phase, I'll never need to measure both horizontally and vertically again, I can just diagonal it up from the ground to the 2nd floor.

Go flat out and jump your Leman Russ' over forests too

Flying tank regiment here I come!

 Hades wrote:
Go reread the "stepping into the new edition" faq. It's full of things to shake the 7th edition dust off you. "All distances a measured in three dimensions."

OK, and when does it say you're allowed to move vertically? Please quote the exact bit of the rule. Hint: I did on page 1.

 Hades wrote:
"All distances a measured in three dimensions."

Yeah, width, depth, and time. You only get the 4th dimension, height, when it explicitly says you get it. And it's only given permission for scenery.

I think we can safely assume that Hades and p5freak are trolls and can disregard anything they say.

Please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. Thanks!

The three dimensions are width, depth and height. Time is the fourth.

p5freak wrote:
The three dimensions are width, depth and height. Time is the fourth.

Where in the rulebook does it say this?

I'm parsing the latest comments a bit

But if you allow this what stops someone from saying
"Okay so 50 conscripts are deploying as a Totem Pole..."

 Overheal wrote:
I'm parsing the latest comments a bit

But if you allow this what stops someone from saying
"Okay so 50 conscripts are deploying as a Totem Pole..."

The point is they CAN'T. But it's not stopping some people arguing they could. When they're very, very wrong.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Overheal wrote:
I'm parsing the latest comments a bit

But if you allow this what stops someone from saying
"Okay so 50 conscripts are deploying as a Totem Pole..."

The point is they CAN'T. But it's not stopping some people arguing they could. When they're very, very wrong.

Right. It highlights that (in Matched Play, do what you want narratively) that you can't charge in on the back of a rhino or use the Rhino as a stepping stool.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So I can create a tower of models, stacking one model on top of another, to get a bird's eye view of the whole table?

Sounds stupid.

]

That's why they got rid of templates and blast markers, so you don't affect everyone in the stack by putting the marker over it.

man effing IG mortars firing into multi-storey ruins ruined my local store for me. LOL

good riddance on blast weapons in most cases. though I still enjoyed dropping the Template down to light things up with.

This thread makes me embarrassed to be a patron of Dakkadakka.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This thread makes me embarrassed to be a patron of Dakkadakka.

bye>?

 Overheal wrote:
I'm parsing the latest comments a bit

But if you allow this what stops someone from saying
"Okay so 50 conscripts are deploying as a Totem Pole..."

Instead of movement trays, I use movement ladders.

 Overheal wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This thread makes me embarrassed to be a patron of Dakkadakka.

bye>?

Oh come now I can endure a bit of embarrassment without leaving the situation!

I just wonder when Dakkadakka became the place for trolls to go.

HIWPI: You can't stand on your own tanks.

RAW: Still being worked out.

RAI: You can't stand on your own tanks.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Your given permission to move in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to the Move. Diagonally is a direction.

No, you are not. The rule was quoted for you.

This Rule?
A model can be moved in any direction, to a distance, in inches, equal to or less than the Move characteristic on its datasheet. No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery.

Bringing up the Rules telling us how to measure distances in three dimensions, and the really pathetic counter of 'they meant time as the third dimension and not the height,' hasn't brought this any closer to parsing what the Written Rules allow for. Don't worry about how you would go about measuring the path this Model took, which is a stupid Rule that I personally despise because I know the history of such a Rule, worry about the fact we have permission to Move Vertically to begin with. The above quoted section grants permission to move in Any Direction, and all common uses of of the word Up and Down clearly fall under what we would determine to be 'directions...' to the point that third parties I asked that question to said I was being silly because they are obviously directions.

So... that is how rules work, right?
A rule grants us Permission to do X,
Another Rule Restrict our permission to do X
Yet even more Rules may provide Exceptions to Restrictions against X

We have provided the Rule granting us permission to move in ANY direction, please quote the Rule which informs us that Up and Down are Restricted directions.

On a less Rule-Lawyer Note:
Game Workshop has always had a problem when it comes to the Permission-Restriction-Exception system that is default for Rule-Based games like this one. There have been other cases in the past where a Game Workshop Author has written a specific Exception for Restrictions that does not exist. In such situations previously, when Rule Lawyers would dissect such a Rule in a 'As Written' environment, we concluded that said Exception doesn't change the fact written permission to carry out X still exists. Some even started flagging such occurrences as 'reminders,' Rules that do nothing themselves but inform us we still have permission to do X. This is just an example of that problem in one self-contained Rule, as providing us a instructions saying we can move Vertically in order to climb over scenery positions heavily suggests that Vertical Movement is meant to be Restricted. Alas, that is not what the word ANY does!

Hovering Models are clearly unintended, and anyone trying to pull that in any game with me will get shut down fast, but till I see a quoted Rule Restricting the 'Any' in 'Any Direction' I have to conclude that Hovering midair is 'as Written.'

I 100% agree with Jinx and Unit it's not how I would play it and I really don't see a good benefit to it. I posted to try and be proven wrong because even though the core rules are 8 pages there's dozens of FAQs all in different places. Somehow this is better?

Hades, I proved you wrong. You can move vertically up scenery only. To move diagonally it includes a vertical component. You are not permitted by the core rules to move up onto your own models. Stop ignoring my posts proving you wrong to try and claim this is a grey area, please.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Hades, I proved you wrong. You can move vertically up scenery only. To move diagonally it includes a vertical component. You are not permitted by the core rules to move up onto your own models. Stop ignoring my posts proving you wrong to try and claim this is a grey area, please.

You put the word only in your sentence but it isn't in the rulebook. I told you to reread the stepping into a new edition faq where it tells you can move diagonally all you want but it seems you've ignored that. :/

 Hades wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Hades, I proved you wrong. You can move vertically up scenery only. To move diagonally it includes a vertical component. You are not permitted by the core rules to move up onto your own models. Stop ignoring my posts proving you wrong to try and claim this is a grey area, please.

You put the word only in your sentence but it isn't in the rulebook. I told you to reread the stepping into a new edition faq where it tells you can move diagonally all you want but it seems you've ignored that. :/

I just performed Ctrl+F on that PDF and couldn't find "diag" or any further-embellishments of "diag---" in the document. Can you highlight it?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

JohnnyHell,
Maybe you can help us by Quoting the Restriction in question?
Just copy and paste it, word for word, from the Rulebook for me.

I keep asking for that because, as others have pointed out, the formatting of Game Workshop Rules is of a very poor quality and this Edition is no different. It is not uncommon for us, when researching an answer to such questions, to need to flip between three or four different sections in multiple books just to understand what is going on. This is even before we start hunting the errata down, which in turn is scattered across multiple locations online depending on which pieces of Author Comments you consider to be Errata. This, if it isn't something so damn obvious that we find the answer in a single paragraph, it really does leave me wondering just what the hell we are missing. It is one of the reasons I ask, because maybe you have read something further in the book that contains a Restriction that I have overlooked.

So, please, quote it for me so I can be correctly informed.

"Q: How do vertical distances work for movement
and measurements?
A: All distances are measured in three dimensions, so if
a unit moves over a hill or scales a wall, the horizontal
distance and vertical distance combined cannot exceed
its Movement characteristic. This means that in order
to traverse across an obstacle, you must move up to the
top of that obstacle, move across the top of it, then move
down it."

This clearly indicates you move via any combination of up/over but not diagonally. Just saying.

To go 5" diagonally you would need to move 4" over and 3" up, or 3" over and 4" up. ie. you would need to move 7" to move 5" diagonally in this 3D case.