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macexor wrote:
Especially their WWI tanks.

so true... the lengths of the barrels are to short.

I have very mixed feelings for IG tanks. Very mixed feelings.

So I am a huge tank nerd (wrote my dissertation on modern and near-future MBTs for graduate school) and I love the IG tanks.

I think they're one of the few holdouts left that harkens back to real 40k fluff, where everything has fallen apart so badly that a gakky tractor with a gun is a reasonable tank.

The Imperial Guard, for me, represent some of the best and worst aspects of humanity that the other "human" factions sort of lose in their quest for an identity. The Guard are hidebound traditionalists, unwilling (or unable!) to see past their present situation. Such a myopic vision means the Leman Russ is an excellent tank, not because it is a perfect design drawn by a genius engineer but because it is easy and cheap. The Imperial Guard spend lives by the thousands, millions, or even billions for an objective not because of great tactical skill but because it is easy, and comparatively cheap - life is free.

But

Other regiments are better. Other regiments use locally built tanks, or are fortunate enough to have a genius commander who can see past the myopic gaze of his compatriots and make true, war-winning plans. Still more are blessed with Imperial superheavy tanks, which are not quite as shoddy as the Leman Russ and are blessed with a splinter of Mankind's lost power. Some regiments are forward-thinking, utilizing maneuver warfare and unit dispersal to inflict much higher casualties upon most opponents than they suffer in return.

Some regiments have both, with gifted company commanders struggling haplessly against the iron grip of a regimental colonel who would climb higher in social station atop a mound of slain men.

The guard are the best and worst of humanity, and I think their tanks epitomize that well. Tough, numerous, and myriad in form and function, with everything from a lowly Hellhound all the way to the Imperial superheavy line. Each awful design is just like a person - ill-suited to the situation it is "born" into, but struggling on anyways, succeeding by virtue of sheer resilience and bloodymindedness.

I like the design of the baneblade, but the smaller tanks bug me a little with their catapiller tracks and poor fire arcs.

Who here thinks ratlings should either be rethought or just ditched altogether? Because I'm leaning that way myself.

Also, just asking again, do you guys hate the necrons more for their fluff or for their rules? I love the idea of them but perhaps GW isn't using them to their full potential.

I have to go with Space Marines. They are flavored like the generic faction they are supposed to be, but statted slightly better than everyone else. This creates the annoying situation or grabbing our miniatures and going 'Is this as good as a tactical marine?' and the answer being at best an 'almost'.

Mary Sue factions always bug me but the Space Marines have it bad.

I hate Guard more with each passing day.

Every competitive Imperium list needs at least a Battalion of them.

They could easily rename Imperium to "Guard +".

I've heard rumors that Chapter Approved will bring more balance, to both GW and FW, which might be encouraging. However, if they install a "20%" allies rule, that would still allow for people to very easily include a ton of guard, and plasma, and tauroxes, because that gak is so cheap points wise.

 Marmatag wrote:
I hate Guard more with each passing day.

Every competitive Imperium list needs at least a Battalion of them.

They could easily rename Imperium to "Guard +".

I've heard rumors that Chapter Approved will bring more balance, to both GW and FW, which might be encouraging. However, if they install a "20%" allies rule, that would still allow for people to very easily include a ton of guard, and plasma, and tauroxes, because that gak is so cheap points wise.

Found the one guy not complaining about Gulliman.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Cyriss. A perfect fusion of bad writers, poor balance, awful visual design, and bad fanfiction smooshed together into a frustrating non-interactive ball of irritating goo.

But… why on earth would you want to interact with a ball of irritating goo

RedCommander wrote:

 ajaxcrackmaster wrote:


I'm very confused by everyone saying that Tau do not fit in the universe. The existence of the Eldar already proves that they have every right to be in 40k, yet somehow every tau hater seems to ignore that?
I'm not even a huge weeb and I have massive respect for the tau. (Aesthetically and fluff wise at least) The presence of Tau and Eldar gives a very nice contrast to the rest of the world and really gives it whole new dimensions and depth. The sleek, pretty, and smooth alien vehicles and troops of the tau and eldar give an amazing contrast to the crude, bulky, and brutal troops and vehicles of the orks, imperium, and chaos. Without them, the whole world of 40k would be much more flat and boring imo. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Even if you don't personally enjoy them, you can at least respect them as an enemy to fight and slaughter

But... the Tau don't even fight in melee!

They only build big, strong robot suits so that they could carry more and bigger guns.

What's wrong with lots and lots of dakka?

Grey Knights, mostly because the one GK player I know is a pain, and always gets salty when the lists he was sure were unbeatable because he read it on the internet lose because he doesn't know how to play them.

Tau, I like their aesthetic, but 4/10 players in my group play tau. Also I don't really like having to face three commanders in a 50p point game.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Cyriss. A perfect fusion of bad writers, poor balance, awful visual design, and bad fanfiction smooshed together into a frustrating non-interactive ball of irritating goo.

But… why on earth would you want to interact with a ball of irritating goo

Exactly my point. I don't want to interact with a ball of irritating goo, but sometimes people want to play Cyriss, so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I hate Guard more with each passing day.

Every competitive Imperium list needs at least a Battalion of them.

They could easily rename Imperium to "Guard +".

I've heard rumors that Chapter Approved will bring more balance, to both GW and FW, which might be encouraging. However, if they install a "20%" allies rule, that would still allow for people to very easily include a ton of guard, and plasma, and tauroxes, because that gak is so cheap points wise.

Found the one guy not complaining about Gulliman.

The basic problem with our Glorious Spiritual Liege, at least where Guard are involved, is that you could take him, or for a similar price (393pts v. 360) you could take Yarrick and two more Manticores.

Yarrick provides the same buffs to a Guard artillery base as Gulliman does.

Gulliman doesn't provide the firepower of two more Manticores.

Actually, I'd say guilliman enhances firepower you already have to be superior to two more manticores.

I dislike no faction and i definitely don't hate any. i am just bored playing against SM but i don't hate them.

like Yoda said “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

However, if they install a "20%" allies rule

Dear God I hope not. I love the ability to freely mix. I've always said from a fluff perspective it makes more sense for Imperial armies at least to be mixed, and playing Aeldari I don't see a huge advantage in freely mixing, since 90% of units are just slightly different flavors of the same thing, and the other 10% is balancing out bad points values, like how overpriced Reavers are compared to Skyweavers and Windrunners.

Couldn't we just jack up the price of Conscripts?

 Melissia wrote:
Actually, I'd say guilliman enhances firepower you already have to be superior to two more manticores.

Guard only get a reroll of ones to hit with Guilliman, his uber-buff is UM only. He gives a big bubble for it, but I'd rather have more tanks.

AnFéasógMór wrote:

However, if they install a "20%" allies rule

Dear God I hope not. I love the ability to freely mix. I've always said from a fluff perspective it makes more sense for Imperial armies at least to be mixed, and playing Aeldari I don't see a huge advantage in freely mixing, since 90% of units are just slightly different flavors of the same thing, and the other 10% is balancing out bad points values, like how overpriced Reavers are compared to Skyweavers and Windrunners.

Couldn't we just jack up the price of Conscripts?

most Imperial armies would not be particularly intermixed at the level of most 40k games in terms of fluff, and nothing about any of these armies is balanced with the idea of freely intermixing in mind, hence why the few Guard CC units tend to be particularly expensive and why SM's dont have inherent access to chaff units. The free intermixing of armies is what results in fluff abomination armies and the excesses of 7th and some of the worst offenders of 8th.

Guard... i understand many type of people like that, but i dont like basic modern day tanks anyways and guard tanks is even worst.

Edit: Tho i do like Sentinels and a couple units, but GSC does that better

This is going to be more of a rant against the contemporary aesthetic direction (i.e. boring) of 40k in the last 20 years.

Tau - My least favourite faction for the reason others have cited. They're a completely extraneous faction in terms of their look, their fluff and the niche they fill on the tabletop. I appreciate they have many dedicated fans who might not otherwise enjoy the 40k setting...but that's kind of missing the point. It harms the integrity of a setting to try to cater to everyone.

CSM - These guys have looked terrible since 3rd ed. The 'Space Marines with spiky bits and horns' look is really uninspiring compared with the original conception of the Traitors Legionnaires. They have been in need of a makeover for a long time...something we will hopefully see in 8th.

Orks - Not that keen on the 'Mad Max Road Warrior' aesthetic direction these guys took from 3rd ed onwards. It was fine for Gorka Morka but I preferred the quirkier and more militaristic look of the 2nd ed Orks.

Nids - Another faction that has become really quite boring and generic. Yes we can laugh at the old Warrior and Carnifex models but they at least show some imagination. I want these guys to look terrifying and disgusting. Now they are just bland although I must admit that the more recent models are a big improvement.

I hate what they did to my Space Vikings. I loved Space Wolves back when they were defined by their Longfangs and scouts, not by their Wulfen crap.

Aesthetically, I hate Tau. They just never have fit the setting at all and always look out of place.
I've also never felt that Dark Eldar deserved a niche in the fluff. I like their models just fine, but just never liked their retconned background fluff.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Cyriss. A perfect fusion of bad writers, poor balance, awful visual design, and bad fanfiction smooshed together into a frustrating non-interactive ball of irritating goo.

But… why on earth would you want to interact with a ball of irritating goo

Exactly my point. I don't want to interact with a ball of irritating goo, but sometimes people want to play Cyriss, so...

Then it's good that the ball is non-interactive ^^.
(Just kidding I get your point.)

 SideshowLucifer wrote:

I've also never felt that Dark Eldar deserved a niche in the fluff. I like their models just fine, but just never liked their retconned background fluff.

With the new keyword allowing combined Eldar/Dark Eldar, I think GW agreed

 ajaxcrackmaster wrote:

I'm very confused by everyone saying that Tau do not fit in the universe. The existence of the Eldar already proves that they have every right to be in 40k, yet somehow every tau hater seems to ignore that?
I'm not even a huge weeb and I have massive respect for the tau. (Aesthetically and fluff wise at least) The presence of Tau and Eldar gives a very nice contrast to the rest of the world and really gives it whole new dimensions and depth. The sleek, pretty, and smooth alien vehicles and troops of the tau and eldar give an amazing contrast to the crude, bulky, and brutal troops and vehicles of the orks, imperium, and chaos. Without them, the whole world of 40k would be much more flat and boring imo. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

I'm not really sure I understand your argument. In what way do Eldar validate the existence of Tau?

Eldar are central to the 40k setting. Their whole backstory is essentially a clever piece of "what if" Tolkein fan-fic written by Rick Priestley. What if Tolkein elves became a galaxy spanning empire and were subsequently consumed by their own hubris? Of all of the 'fantasy tropes in space' that defined early 40k they are the most developed in terms of how they integrate with the setting as a whole (although the idea of Orks as an engineered warrior race which took a life of its own when its masters disappeared is also pretty cool).

The Fall also plays a critical role in kickstarting the main 40k timeline. No Fall, no birth of Slaanesh, no Great Crusade, no ascendancy of mankind, no Horus Heresy etc.

Tau on the other hand are largely peripheral. Their justifying idea (which is that they might one day replace mankind as the galaxy's dominant civilization in the same way that mankind replaced the Eldar) isn't bad but I don't think it's enough.

If you simply mean that 'Eldar show you can have sleek and clean in the grimy 40k universe' I would stress that the Eldar and Tau aesthetics couldn't be more different. The Eldar aesthetic follows the naturalistic heritage of their elven trope. It's a high fantasy aesthetic transposed into a sci-fi universe (which is also in keeping with much of the Imperium's aesthetic). The Tau aesthetic is pure sci-fi.

 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:

If you simply mean that 'Eldar show you can have sleek and clean in the grimy 40k universe' I would stress that the Eldar and Tau aesthetics couldn't be more different. The Eldar aesthetic follows the naturalistic heritage of their elven trope. It's a high fantasy aesthetic transposed into a sci-fi universe (which is also in keeping with much of the Imperium's aesthetic). The Tau aesthetic is pure sci-fi.

Personally, I find the Tau aesthetic to be between the Eldar and the Imperium, but that's just me.

RedCommander wrote:

 ajaxcrackmaster wrote:


But... the Tau don't even fight in melee!

They only build big, strong robot suits so that they could carry more and bigger guns.

What's wrong with lots and lots of dakka?

You gotta have choppa as well. That's just common sense and courtesy.

The Adeptus Mechanicus aka the Skitarii. While the lore behind them is good I can't stand the models. They just look silly to me. I've never actually met anyone who plays them and I don't see a lot of threads about them. I mean I've played against Sisters of Battle, Custodes, and I even know a guy who made a squat army that he runs as IG. But the Skitarii nothing nadda. I kinda feel like they're the forgotten army of 40k. Sorry to any of their fans but that's just how I feel about them..

 AspinTheBlack wrote:
Chaos + Power Gamer

Yes you know its going to be a lots of fun when you see the Demon Princes getting ready for deployment.

However must say that 7th edition toned the absurd crap down a bit. Have not looked at Chaos in 8th because I don't have to
know that they will have something that will be a joke gone to far.

Must I always felt sorry for Dark Elder players because just about everyone kicked their but.

Don't think Chaos have got anything like that right now... summoning was the only "absurd" thing I know of (at least compared to the absurdity that is generic space marine and IG), but that's completely different now.

I actually think Chaos seems to be one of the most balanced armies at the moment. Lot of viable options, nothing too overpowered (that I can think of offhand). Even their superstar "Chaos primarch + units" combos are far more balanced than the Girlyman/Celestine/Cawl/whatever combos that seem to get run regularly on here.


Which leads me to my (a strong word) "hated" faction - Imperium.

I like the Imperial Guard, they're nice and fluffy and have a lot of options. They manage to seem like a downtrodden underdog, even when they field a battallion of tanks, tanks and bigger tanks. I even like space marines in general, though more for their occasionally crazy fluff than anything else. And the offshoots like inquisitors and sisters and admech I like, they all have their own flavour and nice models that I thoroughly approve of for the most part.

What I "hate" is the Imperial Soup lists people come up with, that are totally unfluffy and just reek, REEK (it rhymes with meek) of being That Guy. I can't remember the worst offenders offhand, pretty sure it involves combining Girlyman and Celestine though, among other things.

There may have been some changes to the erratas/faqs that toned these units down, I don't recall anything since the flyers change, but it still left a bad taste.

Ahh, my 5am rant of the day. Sleepytimes.