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Hey just a general question, how much of a difference are people finding with command points?

To get more specific, I managed to squeeze a brigade detachment into 2000 points for my Orks so 12 CP total, but I'm looking at it for playability and unless I seize initive I'm going second, it could be playable but I have to play test a bit more.

do people find getting the extra 3 command points over taking several smaller detachments counteract this?

They make much more of a difference to armies with a codex than armies without, due to codex-specific stratagems.

That makes sense ya I'm gonna be playing a CSM and a space marine player so guess itll be a fun time for them haha

Edit: thank you as well for the quick response

 Melissia wrote:
They make much more of a difference to armies with a codex than armies without, due to codex-specific stratagems.

Not that much more. Rerolling is far and away the most used CP.

You'll notice a difference when you get the codex. Right now we just have a few generic ones. I have been making due with just 5 myself (and didn't even realize that I was actually at 5 for Battle Forged for awhile haha!)

regarding going 1st.
whomever finishes deployment 1st gets + 1 to the roll to determine 1st turn.

you should definitely re-roll if you have a chance to get 1st turn.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/09/new-matched-play-rules-in-chapter-approved-aug-9gw-homepage-post-1/

Hey awesome I totally didn't know that was out yet thank you, I will make sure I keep it in mind, thank you all

With orks 6-7 CPs for the re-rolls are more than enough.

It's not out yet as chapter approved hasn't been released. its been announced that it i's going to be. Also many of the big tournament's (ITC) are running it

Could go for the brigade at 2000 points with orks but for that i have to use points on stuff i don`t really want in my list.
So i end up mostly with 1 Batallion Detachment + 2 Spearhead Detachments, sometimes an additional Vanguard or Outrider Detachment and get 8-9 CP`s.

Sure 12 would be better, but that way i have a smooth list and that is more important for me.
Use them mainly for rerolls and sometimes to let a mob of boys counter attack.

With the new Codex and maybe some point reductions it gets easier to bring the Brigade Detachment and hopefully we get some nice strategems as well.

 Blackie wrote:
With orks 6-7 CPs for the re-rolls are more than enough.

I feel the same, although I've been using the auto-pass morale stratagem more lately. Stretching out to a Battalion is pretty easy pointswise, but it gives me a bunch of units I don't particularly want or have use for. Orks need quality units on the table more than extra CPs.

Ya I think I've stretched it too much so just gotta build something else and wait for the codex to drop.thanks all

stratigo wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
They make much more of a difference to armies with a codex than armies without, due to codex-specific stratagems.

Not that much more. Rerolling is far and away the most used CP.

You're kidding right? Things like Alpha Legion/Raven Guard infiltrating units for 1 CP per unit, Marines taking more relics/chapter masters etc. Having more CP helps those armies way more than the index armies right now.

That said I think brigades only really work if you have cheap and effective choices in each FOC. Orks tend not to have these types of options so you end up with throw away slots. Better off with 8-10 using other detachments than trying to force yourself into a Brigade. For instance orks don't really have cheap effective choices in Fast Attack.

Brigades are a bit excessive, yeah. You'll really want battallions supported by specialist detachments.

Ya I was going to run solo deffkoptas as distraction early getting in their face or objective grabs, as I'm writing this though I think solo deffkoptas would probably get pasted in overwatch though or if not maybe die in combat without staying stuck in

Yeah Koptas are too expensive really. I get that they have a bunch of wounds but they are min 64 points. They just aren't very effective for that cost.

Some times its not worth throwing in junk units to nab a bigger detachments.

with C:SM i find i burn through my 3+3 by turn 3 and will often use rerolls the most.

Command Points are cool and *highly* useful, mostly for re-rolls. They can make a difference during a critical moment.

However, they are not the be all, end all of army building. For example, if you figure that one more Elite choice would complement your game plan really well but you already have full Elites and can't afford to shuffle the detachments any more, it might be worth it to get that auxillary detachment. -1 CP is nothing compared to additional tactical options. Command Points can't kill the enemy on their own, after all...

I played a Brigade today in a non-competitive 2k game and it was great. I spent 12 CP over 6 turns and didn't regret a single one. I re-rolled the Seize roll, the heavy d6 roll on my Exorcist missile tank, Act of Faith rolls, d3 Victory Point rolls, even last-man-standing saves in pursuit of an objective VP. It's okay now with certain play styles, and it will only get better with a codex.

Thinking I can quite easily run my Iron Warriors as a Brigade and not feel like I'm gimping myself. 12CPs with the chaos codex is very useful.

Demon prince
Sorcerer
Aspiring champ

2x5 marines, special weapon/combi-weapon, fist
Rhino
4x10 cultists

2 helbrutes
8 bezerkers in rhino

3 spawn

hacovs
2x Oblits

It's trivial for Guard armies to end up with an insane amount of CP. Both of my Imperial armies are still Index only, but the only thing I have used my CP for is rerolls. For Guard, morale is pretty much a moot point with Commissars or Coteaz, and I don't use enough specialist Blood Angels units/models to make interrupting combat worth it.

I do always burn a reroll to try and Seize the Initiative though, I love the psychological effect it has on a player when my Guard or Blood Angels end up going first. An extra turn of heavy weapons fire can really swing a battle in a positive way if the opponent set up expecting to have first turn.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
It's trivial for Guard armies to end up with an insane amount of CP. Both of my Imperial armies are still Index only, but the only thing I have used my CP for is rerolls. For Guard, morale is pretty much a moot point with Commissars or Coteaz, and I don't use enough specialist Blood Angels units/models to make interrupting combat worth it.

I do always burn a reroll to try and Seize the Initiative though, I love the psychological effect it has on a player when my Guard or Blood Angels end up going first. An extra turn of heavy weapons fire can really swing a battle in a positive way if the opponent set up expecting to have first turn.

I am, quite honestly terrified at how powerful guard are likely to be once they get their codex, they're Strong with their index alone, given them "regiment tactics" and stratigiums and I think they could climb into "7th ed eldar" territory

BrianDavion wrote:


I am, quite honestly terrified at how powerful guard are likely to be once they get their codex, they're Strong with their index alone, given them "regiment tactics" and stratigiums and I think they could climb into "7th ed eldar" territory

It is truly insane, I was tinkering with lists and was easily able to fit two brigade detachments in at 2,000 points, without hurting the composition of the army too badly. They will have to tread carefully with their Codex, too many Strategems that give buffs is pretty much a no-no for them at this point, the game really can't handle it unless they go up in points or they make significant changes to how the army is organized.

BrianDavion wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
It's trivial for Guard armies to end up with an insane amount of CP. Both of my Imperial armies are still Index only, but the only thing I have used my CP for is rerolls. For Guard, morale is pretty much a moot point with Commissars or Coteaz, and I don't use enough specialist Blood Angels units/models to make interrupting combat worth it.

I do always burn a reroll to try and Seize the Initiative though, I love the psychological effect it has on a player when my Guard or Blood Angels end up going first. An extra turn of heavy weapons fire can really swing a battle in a positive way if the opponent set up expecting to have first turn.

I am, quite honestly terrified at how powerful guard are likely to be once they get their codex, they're Strong with their index alone, given them "regiment tactics" and stratigiums and I think they could climb into "7th ed eldar" territory

Considering the speed with which GW has been putting out errata I would expect the outliers that make Guard as good as it is to be put in line long before Codex: Astra Militarum drops.

Arachnofiend wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
It's trivial for Guard armies to end up with an insane amount of CP. Both of my Imperial armies are still Index only, but the only thing I have used my CP for is rerolls. For Guard, morale is pretty much a moot point with Commissars or Coteaz, and I don't use enough specialist Blood Angels units/models to make interrupting combat worth it.

I do always burn a reroll to try and Seize the Initiative though, I love the psychological effect it has on a player when my Guard or Blood Angels end up going first. An extra turn of heavy weapons fire can really swing a battle in a positive way if the opponent set up expecting to have first turn.

I am, quite honestly terrified at how powerful guard are likely to be once they get their codex, they're Strong with their index alone, given them "regiment tactics" and stratigiums and I think they could climb into "7th ed eldar" territory

Considering the speed with which GW has been putting out errata I would expect the outliers that make Guard as good as it is to be put in line long before Codex: Astra Militarum drops.

quite possiably yes, as it is two of the stronger elements of guard are conscripts, and Scions. Scions won't likely be able to use regiment specific stratigiums (indeed. they'll have to be deployed in a differant detachment if you wanna use regimental tactics and stratigiums most like;y) so they'll receive a soft nerf there. and conscripts well.. there's a number of easy ways to nerf them, make them 20 man squads tops and they're still a good choice, but a LOT less powerful.

even assuming those enrfs though Guard'll be in a fantastic position, because thgey have some good solid units over all and will be able to gain LOTS of command points.

stratigo wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
They make much more of a difference to armies with a codex than armies without, due to codex-specific stratagems.

Not that much more. Rerolling is far and away the most used CP.

I play BT and the Codex made a huge difference, access to Abhor the Witch is a must. I also often use the VenDread reroll 1s to hit as he's deployed with the Predator, Orbital bombardment it's also worth the points when facing a cluster comprising of HQ and Elites at deployment.

They go pretty fast when using 3CP Stratagems but they add flavour to your army and give you a better chance to make THE move you need in that game.

I play Black Legion. Honestly - the only command points I use are for re-rolls. The other stratagems have never made enough of a difference for me to want to use them.

I mean, who needs an extra round of shooting when you are playing Noise Marines? There's usually not enough opponents left to shoot / charge you after the first volley of 40-something shots.

Who needs an extra round of assault when you are playing Berzerkers? If 2 rounds of chopping things up is not enough, it's not going dying this round. It will continue making invulnerable saves.

Who is actually taking 3 Predators in a list, enough for that kill shot one to be of use. I could see the missile launcher / flyer one being useful IF your opponent is bringing flyers. But my Havocs / CSMs generally bring lascannons / plasma, so that's out.

And I had enough of Boons in 7th edition. No thanks trading in rerolls for a random buff.

Maybe it's going to be different with other armies, but I don't see the point of all the stratagems.

Stratagems are huge. I'm counting the days Aeldari get stratagems so I can exploit them.

The ones listed above are so strong! Wtf? Who needs another round of attacks or shots? Chaos. Chaos needs more attacks and shots. You don't have to fire at the same target. That's like saying if you drop Slannesh Oblits down and roll well on the D3 rolls and kill a raven, who wants to shoot it again at the bottom of the shooting phase to shoot and kill a second raven?.. Srsly? I do. I want to kill 600 pts of ravens Turn1 with 3 oblits and a few command pts. Hell, you can even reroll one of those D3 with another command pts to make the most of it.