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Made in ca
Stubborn Hammerer





I'm not playing Dreadwinter.


As I understand the conversation here, there are two problems.

#1 poor development planning, leading to worse storm events than necessary.
#2 climate change denial, which has exasperated/accelerated the number of high intensity storms.

Unless the number of cat 2 storms has been increasing over the same time period your counterpoint to whembly's assertions doesn't really counter his point.

   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Scrabb wrote:
I'm not playing Dreadwinter.


As I understand the conversation here, there are two problems.

#1 poor development planning, leading to worse storm events than necessary.
#2 climate change denial, which has exasperated/accelerated the number of high intensity storms.

Unless the number of cat 2 storms has been increasing over the same time period your counterpoint to whembly's assertions doesn't really counter his point.



Do you consider Hurricane Sandy to be a major hurricane?
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Dreadwinter wrote:
 Scrabb wrote:
I'm not playing Dreadwinter.


As I understand the conversation here, there are two problems.

#1 poor development planning, leading to worse storm events than necessary.
#2 climate change denial, which has exasperated/accelerated the number of high intensity storms.

Unless the number of cat 2 storms has been increasing over the same time period your counterpoint to whembly's assertions doesn't really counter his point.



Do you consider Hurricane Sandy to be a major hurricane?

Category 3+ hurricanes are considered "major". It's just a ranking based on the probable estimates for significant loss of life and damage. Its in no way inferring that a Cat 2, ala Sandy, wasn't dangerous.

<fixed heinous spelling errors>

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/09/01 20:10:18


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Hammerer





 Dreadwinter wrote:


Do you consider Hurricane Sandy to be a major hurricane?


Oh I see what this is about. Whembly did that official classification line. Because yeah, I think Sandy was a major hurricane. Apparently I am technically incorrect.


That was his huge deception? Clarifying his use of an official term to substantiate the point that we haven't been seeing huge and unprecedented storm strengths at an unprecedented rate. Lock him up!




Or, if we're going to be pithy and deflective I'll change my reply to: "Do you consider category 2 or category 3 storms to be more major?"
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Scrabb wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:

It's only going to get worse. Increasing global temperatures will serve to make these kinds of storms more frequent and potentially even more destructive.

There's no empirical evidence that would support that assertion.
There's a lot of folks with their homes underwater who will be glad to hear this, especially as it's been said by the right after every major hurricane, each worse than the last.

When you do finally have to admit you were wrong, I hope you at least have the spine to stand up and say you supported a viewpoint that ruined and ended a lot of people's lives.


Is anything in whembly's post above incorrect?

I also want to sardonically thank you for helping us realize we have a water management problem at this time. Again, Houston is handling flood prevention poorly and wouldn't have to handle as much post flood recovery if they did flood prevention better.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to belabor that while there are so many in need of emotional, physical and financial support. Truly.

If it wasn't for people like Whembly there would be less, if not zero, people dead, less property damage, and less tragedy. Letting the deflection happen is what led to this, and will lead to it again. What I'm doing might not help, what he's doing will do harm. That you see me as the bad guy is exactly what the problem is.

But like I've said before, it isn't my home underwater so I will let people hang themselves if they are so set on it. We've passed the point where natural disasters like this earn my sympathy because we know they are coming and have been getting warnings about this for decades. Could all the damage have been avoided? Of course not, but it didn't have to be a complete disaster. So much of this tragedy is caused because people stood in the freeway and insisted the headlights getting closer weren't a car.

If/when a major earthquake hits California, feel free to not lend us any sympathy if it becomes a disaster like this one.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/01 21:00:58


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Scrabb wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:

It's only going to get worse. Increasing global temperatures will serve to make these kinds of storms more frequent and potentially even more destructive.

There's no empirical evidence that would support that assertion.
There's a lot of folks with their homes underwater who will be glad to hear this, especially as it's been said by the right after every major hurricane, each worse than the last.

When you do finally have to admit you were wrong, I hope you at least have the spine to stand up and say you supported a viewpoint that ruined and ended a lot of people's lives.


Is anything in whembly's post above incorrect?

I also want to sardonically thank you for helping us realize we have a water management problem at this time. Again, Houston is handling flood prevention poorly and wouldn't have to handle as much post flood recovery if they did flood prevention better.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to belabor that while there are so many in need of emotional, physical and financial support. Truly.

If it wasn't for people like Whembly there would be less, if not zero, people dead, less property damage, and less tragedy. Letting the deflection happen is what led to this, and will lead to it again. What I'm doing might not help, what he's doing will do harm. That you see me as the bad guy is exactly what the problem is.

Ya see... here's the problem...

You're viewing this event through a political-prism to assign blame. Yes, the ongoing debate over mankind's influence over Climate is rather heated.

However, when an entire frick'n community is in the most literal sense, drowning, no one gives a hot damn about a political take. No one cares who could’ve done what differently, or who voted or didn’t vote for President or piece of legislation.

At this point, the survivors of this event is just hoping and praying to have a home tomorrow and for those who’ve lost, how to rebuild.

'Tis why I'm trying really, really hard not to get sucked into a Climate Change Alarmist™/Denial® debate in this thread. I think there's some interest for that, but lets do that in a separate thread if OT US Politics is allowed again.

As to the OP, some good news...

Harris County Flood Control District meteorologist Jeff Lindner tweeted that "water is falling...if you have not flooded you will not flood."

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

That moment when we pretend that Category 4 Hurricanes haven't increased, because they haven't hit the US...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_4_Atlantic_hurricanes
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Hammerer





I'm letting this one go. Sorry for interrupting.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 whembly wrote:

Ya see... here's the problem...

You're viewing this event through a political-prism to assign blame. Yes, the ongoing debate over mankind's influence over Climate is rather heated.

However, when an entire frick'n community is in the most literal sense, drowning, no one gives a hot damn about a political take. No one cares who could’ve done what differently, or who voted or didn’t vote for President or piece of legislation.

At this point, the survivors of this event is just hoping and praying to have a home tomorrow and for those who’ve lost, how to rebuild.

'Tis why I'm trying really, really hard not to get sucked into a Climate Change Alarmist™/Denial® debate in this thread. I think there's some interest for that, but lets do that in a separate thread if OT US Politics is allowed again.

Lots of people care about "the political take" because when this exact same situation happened twice in relatively recent years(Sandy and Katrina), the people who are hand-wringing and talking about "let's not assign blame here" now were the same ones who talked about how the bill introduced to give aid and relief to the affected areas included stuff that basically added "welfare" or "pork" to the bills(such as repairs to the Smithsonian which was damaged during Sandy's wind & rain).


Now when the shoe is on the other foot, it's nothing but "political points scoring" when the "obstructionists" on the other side bring up the past, eh?
As to the OP, some good news...

Harris County Flood Control District meteorologist Jeff Lindner tweeted that "water is falling...if you have not flooded you will not flood."

Not really much good news for those who already were affected.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

That's good news Whembly. Did it include Katy, etc.?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





United States

sirlynchmob wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Literally no one is saying a modern drainage system would have avoided flooding. That's a straw man you keep throwing up to make your argument seem remotely logical.

And I'm sure that 4 feet of water is moving very rapidly inside one's house.


Not in their house no, but you should not be staying in a building that has 4 feet of water in it, much less any more. Which means you'd need to leave, which means you'll be dealing with the moving water outside.

And yes, there are people who have brought up that a better drainage system would have avoided the flooding. Its why I brought it up in the first place because a stupid article on CNN was talking about how the flooding would have been eliminated by better drainage and more permeable surfaces. And it put a political spin on it of course putting blame on conservatives. Utter horse gak.


No one in this thread said that a better drainage system would have prevented any flooding. Nobody here is making the same argument as the one you read in the CNN article.

Houston periodically gets hit with massive rainfall from storms. They got hit with 22 inches of rain from a storm in 1998, they got hit with 41 inches of rain from a storm in 2001 and they got hit with 17 inches of rain from a storm in 2016.

Did the people in charge of Houston make any significant improvements to their storm water drainage system in the 16 years between getting hit by 41 inches of rain and getting hit by 51 inches of rain? No. The Addicks and Barker reservoirs are over capacity and flooding out more homes because they have to release water. Both of those reservoirs are 70 years old. Maybe over the course of the last 70 years the people in charge of Houston could have added additional reservoirs or upgraded the existing ones since the city has certainly grown during that time. Maybe upgrading 70 year old dirt canals, improving their gradient to help carry away storm water away, strengthening them with concrete etc. would have been a good idea since it's a known fact that the city is in a location that periodically gets FEET of rainfall dumped on it by storms.

Isn't this one of the primary reasons why we have government in the first place? To safeguard our community and its citizenry? Yes, 51 inches of rain was going to cause a massive disaster but it's not ok to just absolve the people who have been running Houston for the past 15 years because hey, 51 inches of rain right? Whatcha gonna do? There are things that could have been done, hundreds of thousands of people in Houston are suffering life altering consequences now and it Harvey didn't have to have an impact this severe, but due to the decisions not to take steps to mitigate the known threat of massive rainfall from tropical storms that have been hitting the city for centuries Harvey is a disaster of this magnitude. The people in charge have to be held accountable for those decisions, that level of inaction can't be consequence free. We can't let the people we elect to government office get away with shirking the responsibility to the hard work of actually governing.


the whole republican party in texas should be held criminally negligent. They voted to defund fema, the national weather service and any government service that could help them now. they voted against helping jersey after their hurricane, they're only solution seems to be to pretend climate isn't real and hold a day of prayer. Ya that should help when the next hurricane hits. They keep advocating for a "free market" solution, then are shocked to see what that entails, $50 for water. They're even refusing offers to help, Mexico offers help and no one accepts their offer. so when I see charities being set up to help, all I can think is texas doesn't want any help, they'll pull themselves up from their bootstraps. Then pretend the problem is gone and be shocked when the next one hit and nothing has been done to mitigate the damage.

It's hard to feel bad for the victims, when they continue to vote for leaders who can't lead and have no idea how to fix any problems. If texas wants help they should help themselves and get rid of ted cruz and the rest of his party, before they help end all government entities designed to help after disasters.

so for the victims in texas, let me quote the president here "good luck", you're going to need it. and I'm selling bootstraps at $10,000 a pair.


The precincts flooded in Houston voted overwhelmingly for Hillary. Going by percentage against population, the state of new jersey had less voters for Hillary than Houston. Fact is, this is a bunch of Democrats getting hit by the hurricane, yet somehow, we still need to push this 3rd grade notion that everyone south of new york city is some Republican red neck or something.

Who voted for who is entirely irrelevant in a disaster. People need to be saved, and I'm not sure what good it does to figuratively divide the floating corpses by political party is going to accomplish.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/02 01:07:13


Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality" 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Scrabb wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:


Do you consider Hurricane Sandy to be a major hurricane?


Oh I see what this is about. Whembly did that official classification line. Because yeah, I think Sandy was a major hurricane. Apparently I am technically incorrect.


That was his huge deception? Clarifying his use of an official term to substantiate the point that we haven't been seeing huge and unprecedented storm strengths at an unprecedented rate. Lock him up!




Or, if we're going to be pithy and deflective I'll change my reply to: "Do you consider category 2 or category 3 storms to be more major?"


It is a big deal, category 2 hurricanes are very destructive and we have been seeing an increase in them lately. Officially, all Hurricanes are Major Hurricanes. What this comes down to is words have meanings and we should use them correctly. He was painting a picture that only Cat 3+ are major hurricanes and that is simply not the case and it is unsafe to spread that across type of thinking.

Edit: Just to be clear, I am sure Whembly didn't intentionally downplay Sandy and other Cat 2 Hurricanes. Their destructive power has been documented. I was just pointing out that having a having a Cat3+ only reference as "major hurricanes" is wrong and could lead some people to believe that a Cat 1/2 is not a big deal or they can ride through it. That is what lands people in these situations, where they ignore mandatory evacuation orders and put themselves, their families, and rescuers in danger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/02 01:30:39


 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Their destructive power has been documented. I was just pointing out that having a having a Cat3+ only reference as "major hurricanes" is wrong and could lead some people to believe that a Cat 1/2 is not a big deal or they can ride through it. That is what lands people in these situations, where they ignore mandatory evacuation orders and put themselves, their families, and rescuers in danger.


This, quite frankly. Any hurricane coming your way is too much hurricane.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Their destructive power has been documented. I was just pointing out that having a having a Cat3+ only reference as "major hurricanes" is wrong and could lead some people to believe that a Cat 1/2 is not a big deal or they can ride through it. That is what lands people in these situations, where they ignore mandatory evacuation orders and put themselves, their families, and rescuers in danger.


This, quite frankly. Any hurricane coming your way is too much hurricane.


I have driven through Cat 1s before.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Frazzled wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Their destructive power has been documented. I was just pointing out that having a having a Cat3+ only reference as "major hurricanes" is wrong and could lead some people to believe that a Cat 1/2 is not a big deal or they can ride through it. That is what lands people in these situations, where they ignore mandatory evacuation orders and put themselves, their families, and rescuers in danger.


This, quite frankly. Any hurricane coming your way is too much hurricane.


I have driven through Cat 1s before.


I have driven through thunderstorms and chased tornadoes. Doesn't mean it was smart or safe.
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Hammerer





 Dreadwinter wrote:


It is a big deal, category 2 hurricanes are very destructive and we have been seeing an increase in them lately. Officially, all Hurricanes are Major Hurricanes. What this comes down to is words have meanings and we should use them correctly. He was painting a picture that only Cat 3+ are major hurricanes and that is simply not the case and it is unsafe to spread that across type of thinking.

Edit: Just to be clear, I am sure Whembly didn't intentionally downplay Sandy and other Cat 2 Hurricanes. Their destructive power has been documented. I was just pointing out that having a having a Cat3+ only reference as "major hurricanes" is wrong and could lead some people to believe that a Cat 1/2 is not a big deal or they can ride through it. That is what lands people in these situations, where they ignore mandatory evacuation orders and put themselves, their families, and rescuers in danger.


Awesome. I stand corrected. Unfortunate to have to report that both categories below (2) and above (4 & 5) are increasing.

   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 d-usa wrote:
That moment when we pretend that Category 4 Hurricanes haven't increased, because they haven't hit the US...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_4_Atlantic_hurricanes


and hurricanes are just 1/2 the issue, typhoons are the other half.

and as if just to prove whembly wrong, here comes Irma, expected to be cat 5 by weds. That lul between sandy and henry was nice, but it's only getting worse. even if you deny it, you can either plan for the worst and hope for the best, or do as the republicans and do absolutely nothing, not even approve a infrastructure bill. That's bad enough, but R's are actually trying to make the situation worse, by defunding all the programs in place to help disaster victims, just so trump can build a wall.


My destroyer went between 2 typhoons, it's not fun.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Miles City, MT

My best well wishes to all affected by Harvey. Unfortunately, I can't donate to Harvey ATM as my own state decided to burn up in flames quite literally. Something like 20+ major active fires and over 600,000 acres burned to date here in Montana. Even have a state wide air quality warning in effect. Been extremely frustrating with the lack of help we have even gotten from our own governor. Especially in the Eastern part of the state.

Twinkle, Twinkle little star.
I ran over your Wave Serpents with my car. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/harvey/2017/09/05/houston-grew-officials-ignored-lifetime-chance-spare-thousands-flooding

Two decades ago, Harris County planners predicted with chilling accuracy just how devastating a storm like Hurricane Harvey would be to the Houston area. Far lesser storms, they determined, could wreck a large swath of the city and its western suburbs.
 
In a report dated May 1996, engineers for the Harris County Flood Control District concluded the area's reservoir system was severely insufficient and imperiled thousands of properties. The report's authors proposed a $400 million fix: constructing a massive underground conduit that would carry water out of the reservoirs and into the Houston Ship Channel more quickly.  

Had the report's recommendations been heeded, the catastrophic flooding that struck Houston a week ago might have been greatly diminished, sparing thousands of homes from floodwaters. 

 Instead, the report got filed away and was all but forgotten. Government leaders ignored its advice.

Today, the report reads like a prophesy of the flooding that swamped west Houston and surrounding areas. Its authors knew which neighborhoods would flood and why, and in which places the flooding would be especially damaging because the water could pool for weeks. 

"The primary flood threat facing the citizens of west Harris County and west Houston comes from the inability to drain the Addicks and Barker reservoirs in an efficient manner," the report said. 

When built in the 1940s, the area's reservoir system was adequate, the report said. But because of changes made to the system, and given the pace of urban development 50 years later, "the project's original design parameters and assumptions are severely outdated and invalid."

In addition to the report's main proposal of a conduit, its authors raised other alternatives, such as digging the reservoirs deeper, buying out properties at risk and creating new regulations on development. 

And then there was a final, stark alternative: "Do nothing and accept risk of flooding." 


That report was written and submitted in 1996. In 1998 Houston got hit with 22 inches of rain, in 2001 Houston got hit with 41 inches of rain, in 2016 Houston got hit with 17 inches of rain and in 2017 Houston got hit with 53 inches of rain. Every one of those storms overwhelmed the antiquated storm water system and caused widespread flooding and damage.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Prestor Jon wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/harvey/2017/09/05/houston-grew-officials-ignored-lifetime-chance-spare-thousands-flooding

Two decades ago, Harris County planners predicted with chilling accuracy just how devastating a storm like Hurricane Harvey would be to the Houston area. Far lesser storms, they determined, could wreck a large swath of the city and its western suburbs.
 
In a report dated May 1996, engineers for the Harris County Flood Control District concluded the area's reservoir system was severely insufficient and imperiled thousands of properties. The report's authors proposed a $400 million fix: constructing a massive underground conduit that would carry water out of the reservoirs and into the Houston Ship Channel more quickly.  

Had the report's recommendations been heeded, the catastrophic flooding that struck Houston a week ago might have been greatly diminished, sparing thousands of homes from floodwaters. 

 Instead, the report got filed away and was all but forgotten. Government leaders ignored its advice.

Today, the report reads like a prophesy of the flooding that swamped west Houston and surrounding areas. Its authors knew which neighborhoods would flood and why, and in which places the flooding would be especially damaging because the water could pool for weeks. 

"The primary flood threat facing the citizens of west Harris County and west Houston comes from the inability to drain the Addicks and Barker reservoirs in an efficient manner," the report said. 

When built in the 1940s, the area's reservoir system was adequate, the report said. But because of changes made to the system, and given the pace of urban development 50 years later, "the project's original design parameters and assumptions are severely outdated and invalid."

In addition to the report's main proposal of a conduit, its authors raised other alternatives, such as digging the reservoirs deeper, buying out properties at risk and creating new regulations on development. 

And then there was a final, stark alternative: "Do nothing and accept risk of flooding." 


That report was written and submitted in 1996. In 1998 Houston got hit with 22 inches of rain, in 2001 Houston got hit with 41 inches of rain, in 2016 Houston got hit with 17 inches of rain and in 2017 Houston got hit with 53 inches of rain. Every one of those storms overwhelmed the antiquated storm water system and caused widespread flooding and damage.


So you are saying that Houston has always had a flooding problem.

So, can we start looking at what Houston is going to do to solve it in the future, becuase I am pretty sure it will rain17+ inches of rain in Houston again.

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Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

I lived in Houston. Please cite the storm that caused 41 inches of rain.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Tropical Storm Allison.

Fact: Houston cannot handle any significant flooding of any kind.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 d-usa wrote:
Tropical Storm Allison.

Fact: Houston cannot handle any significant flooding of any kind.


Having lived through Allison, please cite something official with 41 inches. Our place was 19 and the largest I remember being reported was 22 inches. I am not being critical, only that whatever your citing appears extremely off and may be referring to a month's worth of rain and not a storm..

I learned two valuable lessons in Allison: !) After a major rain event, if you are parked underground, take the stairs and not the elevator or you might die; 2) Never ever drink coffee within two and a half hours of planning to take a bus. If the bus takes five hours to get to the parking lot and you drank a gallon of coffee right before you panic and run for a bus, you will end up peeing in the parking lot and not give a Interestingly, Allison was NOT the storm where I was hit by a flying construction barrel while waiting for a bus. Nothing says "oh come on!" like getting hit by a construction barrel...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I don't know, maybe some dude's raingauge in the back yard, maybe some total over a whole week that includes another storm besides Allison?

Of course you are now arguing in favor of the fact that Houston cannot handle any flooding by pointing out that it doesn't take 41 inches for the system to be overloaded, but only 19-22 inches.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

The Beaumont area is what got the 40+ inches from Allison, for clarification.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 d-usa wrote:
I don't know, maybe some dude's raingauge in the back yard, maybe some total over a whole week that includes another storm besides Allison?

Of course you are now arguing in favor of the fact that Houston cannot handle any flooding by pointing out that it doesn't take 41 inches for the system to be overloaded, but only 19-22 inches.


So, your statement is incorrect then.

Please find me a metropolitan area that can take 15 inches in a 24 period and not have significant flooding. it sure as hell aint any place in Oklahoma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The Beaumont area is what got the 40+ inches from Allison, for clarification.


Thanks Tanny. Beaumont is not Houston, however. There'es something about the whole Sabine Pass area that Dog seems to hate and wants to run storms through.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/06 21:03:02


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Frazzled wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
I don't know, maybe some dude's raingauge in the back yard, maybe some total over a whole week that includes another storm besides Allison?

Of course you are now arguing in favor of the fact that Houston cannot handle any flooding by pointing out that it doesn't take 41 inches for the system to be overloaded, but only 19-22 inches.


So, your statement is incorrect then.


It wasn't my statement, just pointing out that Google is a thing and that stuff happened in 2001.

Please find me a metropolitan area that can take 15 inches in a 24 period and not have significant flooding.


Please find me a soldier that can survive a .50 cal to the head, and then explain to me why we are wasting money giving them all body armor that cover their chest?

So here it is in baby steps:

1) If you get overwhelmed by a 10-year flood, you are going to get a lot of damage from a 10-year flood.
2) If you cannot handle the 10-year flood, you are going to get even more damage from a 50-year flood
3) If you cannot handle a 50-year flood, you are going to get even more damage from a 100-year flood.
4) If you cannot handle a 100-year flood, you are going to get even more damage from a 500-year flood.
5) By increasing your ability to handle increasingly more severe flooding, you are decreasing the damage caused by flooding that is greater than what your system is designed to handle.
6) If your design can only handle 5 inches of rain, then 50 inches is 45 inches too much. If your system can only handle 15 inches of rain, then that you are getting 35 more than you can handle. If your system can handle 30 inches of rain, then you are getting 20 more inches than you can handle.
7) Decreasing your flooding by even 6 inches decreases the amount of property destruction and infrastructure disturbance by a ton.

Or, in bullet talk because you are from Texas:

1) A soldier without any armor or helmet can become deader from small bullets.
2) A soldier with some armor can become less deader from small bullets but more deader from big bullets.
3) Just because soldier sometimes gets hit by big bullets and becomes more deader doesn't mean we shouldn't give him the tools to be less deader from the smaller bullets.

it sure as hell aint any place in Oklahoma.


If we get any of the historical high rainfalls that Houston gets I'll get back to you about Oklahoma's ability to handle rainfall amounts that don't affect us much.

If you want me to bitch about something comparable I'll be free to admit that it's ridiculous that we keep on rebuilding the same buildings the same way after we dig out the dead bodies from the rubble after every tornado and that we still don't require basements or shelters in any new buildings, including schools.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/06 21:26:47


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 Frazzled wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
Tropical Storm Allison.

Fact: Houston cannot handle any significant flooding of any kind.


Having lived through Allison, please cite something official with 41 inches. Our place was 19 and the largest I remember being reported was 22 inches. I am not being critical, only that whatever your citing appears extremely off and may be referring to a month's worth of rain and not a storm..

I learned two valuable lessons in Allison: !) After a major rain event, if you are parked underground, take the stairs and not the elevator or you might die; 2) Never ever drink coffee within two and a half hours of planning to take a bus. If the bus takes five hours to get to the parking lot and you drank a gallon of coffee right before you panic and run for a bus, you will end up peeing in the parking lot and not give a Interestingly, Allison was NOT the storm where I was hit by a flying construction barrel while waiting for a bus. Nothing says "oh come on!" like getting hit by a construction barrel...


I stand corrected. The worst hit parts of Texas got over 40 inches of rain from Allison while Houston was only deluged with 38.6 inches of rain.

The point stands that the local govt in Houston was officially notified in 1996 that their stormestwr infrastructure was grossly inadequate, then experienced multiple torrential rains and still chose to make no improvements.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_Storm_Allison
The storm dropped heavy rainfall along its path, peaking at over 40 inches (1,000 mm) in Texas. The worst flooding occurred in Houston, where most of Allison's damage occurred: 30,000 became homeless after the storm flooded over 70,000 houses and destroyed 2,744 homes. Downtown Houston was inundated with flooding, causing severe damage to hospitals and businesses. Twenty-three people died in Texas. Along its entire path, Allison caused $9 billion (2001 USD) in damage and 41 deaths. Aside from Texas, the places worst hit were Louisiana and southeastern Pennsylvania.


Tropical Storm Allison was a major flood disaster throughout its path from Texas to the Mid-Atlantic. The worst of the flooding occurred in Houston, Texas, where over 35 inches (890 mm) of rain fell. Allison caused over $9 billion in damage (2001 USD, $12 billion 2014 USD), making it the costliest tropical storm on record in the United States. The storm also killed 41 people directly, including 27 who drowned. This ties Allison with a tropical storm in 1917 as the second-deadliest tropical storm to impact the US; only surpassed by the 1925 Florida tropical storm which killed 73 people.[2]


Flash flooding continued for days,[10] with rainfall amounts across the state peaking at just over 40 inches (1,033 mm) in northwestern Jefferson County. In the Port of Houston, a total of 36.99 inches (940 mm) was reported.[9] Houston experienced torrential rainfall in a short amount of time. The six-day rainfall in Houston amounted to 38.6 inches (980 mm).[28] Houston Hobby Airport received 20.84 inches of rain from June 5 to 10, 2001, while Bush Intercontinental Airport received 16.48 inches. [29] The deluge of rainfall flooded 95,000 automobiles and 73,000 houses throughout Harris County.[1] Tropical Storm Allison destroyed 2,744 homes, leaving 30,000 homeless with residential damages totaling to $1.76 billion (2001 USD, $2.29 billion 2012 USD).[28]

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
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I think the citizens of Houston should be raising some very serious questions with the mayor. Hopefully this will have given them the wake-up call nessisary to motivate that. It's surprisingly easy to assume that city officials have this stuff generally figured out and prioritised right but let's be honest; how many people have their own problems and priorities figured out? Sometimes we have to take a break from those to look at the larger picture, lest we wind up with problems we really can't solve for ourselves.

That came out more philisophical than it sounded in my head

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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Also Land Subsidence from over pumping water from aquafers is shown to lower the land even more, which increases the severity of floodings...


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