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And you have the issue of renegotiation upon success. If star wars miniature game sales eclipsed GW in size world wide, then Disney is going to negotiate hard for a larger piece of the pie. So then if the manufacturer wants to maintain their operating margins, they either have to jack up prices or reduce quality to cut spending.

And there's always a risk of a third party putting in a bid on the license and scooping it all away from you.

 Marmatag wrote:
If anyone could knock 40k or AoS out completely it would be Blizzard. They could publish a miniatures game, and it would be immediately popular. They'd probably also sell pre-painted and assembled miniatures, which would immediately get people playing.

How much of the World of Warcraft Miniatures game did you invest in? I seem to recall it dying a pretty ignominious death

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
If anyone could knock 40k or AoS out completely it would be Blizzard. They could publish a miniatures game, and it would be immediately popular. They'd probably also sell pre-painted and assembled miniatures, which would immediately get people playing.

How much of the World of Warcraft Miniatures game did you invest in? I seem to recall it dying a pretty ignominious death

I have a pretty good set of it. Mechanically its really pretty good, but its more of a board game really.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I do find it strange that the 40k lovers can claim their game can be 'reset' for rules but x-wing can't.

When GW do their regular reset, if you owned 3 armies, it would cost you a rulebook and 3 codices minimum. Probably about 125 ukp. All your old books are now outdated and no use. All you are really keeping over is the plastic figures.

Why couldn't FFG do the same to x-wing? You keep the plastic figures, all they need to do is reproduce a card set and the cardboard bases. I bet it would be way less than 125 for every model they've ever made. I mean, what's a MtG deck of 60 cards go for, 10 quid?

Yeah. FFG could do that. But that would be utterly against how they have historically structured their games.

Ideally they would break out of their mold and start doing business like an actual miniature game company instead of treating all their products like glorified board games.

 Stormonu wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
There is one overwhelming reason they won't supplant GW's games: GW has boots on the ground. There are no FFG-only shops.

That rubbish is like claiming Apple dominates the computer market because there’s no Microsoft stores.

It's apples and oranges (pun intended). If we needed an Apple store, somewhere that stocks Apple products, or an Apple outlet of sorts at home to use Apple products, it'd be a completely different game.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
There is one overwhelming reason they won't supplant GW's games: GW has boots on the ground. There are no FFG-only shops.

that can be a double edged sword though, GW's presence in my neck of the woods is anemic at best and they face outright hostility from mosts flgs who wont even carry their product, while FFG is supported very well in all of them. granted this is one place, but we have 1 gw, total, within 100 miles and when looking at their store finder, there is inaccurate information in there as well, like stores that have been closed for years and others (like my current flgs) that does not and never has carried GW products.

Oh, I agree. It's the same in Brazil (a nation of 200 million), with LFGSs outright refusing to stock GW because of their previous policies. I don't play at my local GW either, but I can still appreciate that most young players go there, which results in them being much more likely to play GW games than anything else. However, it serves to recruit a lot of players to GW games and immerse them in the lore rather than any other game. GW dominates the market and is drawing on that power.

 Cream Tea wrote:
The original medium still dictates what can be done with such a game.

Yes. Miniatures wargames generally set up the setting so that any faction has a half-decent excuse to fight any other (or themselves) and be in a perpetual stalemate (whether that be by being set in time like 40k was, or by an increasingly improbable plot like Warmachine ). Settings based on books or movies are there to tell a story with a beginning and end, and there might not be much room to look outside that story. With Star Wars, for example, FFG are already crowbarring in a third faction into the gaps between the Empire and Rebellion.

Not that its an usual thing. A Scum faction first showed up in the video game RTS Empires at War with the Zann Consortium being the stand in for a scum faction. There's also Galactic Battlegrounds which decided Gungans and Wookies needed factions too.

But if they really wanted to they could go with Galactic Republic and CIS/Seperatists.

I have significant doubts that this Star Wars game will do anything to 40k. Or even any other tabletop wargame.

They're gonna have to put a little bit more into it other than "Luke and the Rebels fighting Vader and Stormtroopers". I fully anticipate any 'expansions' to involve the New Chick with No Personality and Angry Mole-face Manchild in Black. We might get lucky enough to get Mannequin Skywalker and Clone Troopers with some Droids and other Droids.

A few ground units, but nothing but primarily infantry. We might get, what- an AT-ST?

This game's miniatures don't look so great, either.

I'm not sinking a dime into this. If they add some fun factions like Mandalorians, Black Sun, Sith Empire, Old Republic, etc.... then maybe. But even then, this will be the game where I put down unpainted models I pull out of a shoebox unless they improve the quality and add some more unit flavor.

They've already showed off the AT-ST.. As for the other non-infantry there's the Airspeeder (from Hoth), the Speeder Bikes, the Pilfered AT-RT's from clone wars.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
They've already showed off the AT-ST.. As for the other non-infantry there's the Airspeeder (from Hoth), the Speeder Bikes, the Pilfered AT-RT's from clone wars.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I wouldn't mind a few other factions from other timelines. I'm pretty much 'ho-hum' about the whole New Hope-Current Dumpster Fire settings in the movies. I'm a much bigger fan of Old Republic or even Clone Wars era. The Rebels vs. Empire thing might be the 'safe' bet, but even this looks generic.

But then again, this is the franchise that flushed its own Expanded Universe (which IMHO was about 50% garbage) when they made the new moves (IMHO 100% garbage). So I can't get my hopes up too high.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
There is one overwhelming reason they won't supplant GW's games: GW has boots on the ground. There are no FFG-only shops.

That rubbish is like claiming Apple dominates the computer market because there’s no Microsoft stores.

It's apples and oranges (pun intended). If we needed an Apple store, somewhere that stocks Apple products, or an Apple outlet of sorts at home to use Apple products, it'd be a completely different game.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
There is one overwhelming reason they won't supplant GW's games: GW has boots on the ground. There are no FFG-only shops.

that can be a double edged sword though, GW's presence in my neck of the woods is anemic at best and they face outright hostility from mosts flgs who wont even carry their product, while FFG is supported very well in all of them. granted this is one place, but we have 1 gw, total, within 100 miles and when looking at their store finder, there is inaccurate information in there as well, like stores that have been closed for years and others (like my current flgs) that does not and never has carried GW products.

Oh, I agree. It's the same in Brazil (a nation of 200 million), with LFGSs outright refusing to stock GW because of their previous policies. I don't play at my local GW either, but I can still appreciate that most young players go there, which results in them being much more likely to play GW games than anything else. However, it serves to recruit a lot of players to GW games and immerse them in the lore rather than any other game. GW dominates the market and is drawing on that power.

I have not noticed them dominating the market here (I will say when I lived in England, yeah they were the big IT thing) especially when their one store is in a part of the city you just dont go after dark. Magic the Gathering is the dominant force in all the FLGS where I live and its unchallenged, then YU-Gi-oh? then X-wing, warmahordes, etc....The kids want their cards around here and minis are kinda third fiddle to cards and rpgs.

The hobby game market has been exploding, but the leader has been Board Games.

To be perfectly honest, I think a lot of people's Warhammer budgets have been relegated to Kickstarter instead.

Let's face it- there are a lot of really cool board games coming out that have really nice minis as well. And while you won't be expanding your board games as often as your 40k army, you can just get the next cool board game instead.