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 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
At the very least I expected a new chaos marine box, a new cultist kit with new options, an obliterator/mutilator box, and some more new special characters.

I'll take it a step further: I'm pretty sure that, as part of GW's rabid obsession with "protecting muh IP from Chapterhouse bullies", we won't even be seeing new kits for old units going forward. Going forward, only new units with dumb faux-latin names or adjective-noun/noun-adjective names will be getting models.

The irony is that their refusal to update old units is what's going to lead me to update my old sculpts with new ones from "Chapterhouse bullies" XD

The OP has a really good perspective, disappointment with the lack of releases of new models for the CSM line is certainly valid. I think many of us have been caught up with 8th edition hype and forgotten about how old some of our models are.

Putting things in perspective, 8th edition is all about streamlining the rules and giving armies some balance. CSMs still suffer from a cost problem, but what I love is the fact that a) there really are no useless units in the Codex anymore and b) GW seems committed to fixing it's most egregious errors in a timely fashion. Like the issue with NMs being elite in an EC list, that took about a week to get resolved.

All that said, I have been busting out my Rogue-Trader-era Noise Marines and they look incredible in the presence of Helbrutes, Heldrakes and Cultists. I can't think of a reason I would want to trade them in for some new model, they are perfect as-is. Am about to strip and repaint them to reflect how I have grown as a painter the last 10 years.

I think what we really got is some respect for the old school and a roadmap for Legion specific armies. It will take a few years, but I expect to see World Eaters and Emperor's Children having their own Codexes before too long. Happy to play with what we have until then, it's not like the game got harder for us.

I wish I had old metal noise marines. They are way more awesome than that finecrap they got now. Some old sculpts were really really good :(

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
At the very least I expected a new chaos marine box, a new cultist kit with new options, an obliterator/mutilator box, and some more new special characters.

Why would you expect all of this?

My general assumption is that we aren't going to see any new models from other factions until the Primaris line (including the inevitable Primaris SC's) are completely finished.

Uh, have you heard about our lord and saviour Mortarion and the sea of models he has brought that certainly isn't primaris?

 Purifier wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
At the very least I expected a new chaos marine box, a new cultist kit with new options, an obliterator/mutilator box, and some more new special characters.

Why would you expect all of this?

My general assumption is that we aren't going to see any new models from other factions until the Primaris line (including the inevitable Primaris SC's) are completely finished.

Uh, have you heard about our lord and saviour Mortarion and the sea of models he has brought that certainly isn't primaris?

This kind of stuff is a big part of why I'm getting sick to death of chaos players. Chaos has had 2 major release waves so far this year(12 months), including 2 daemon primarchs. Even space marines can only sort of tie them (deathwatch was way less impressive than thousand suns)

But because they're not the ones the OP wanted Chaos is getting nothing and is so woebegone and unloved and blah blah blah.

For the past from september to september Chaos have gotten 3 major centerpiece models, multiple books and more than a dozen new kits; meanwhile Sisters of Battle have gotten 1 non-special edition model in almost 20years, with inquisition in almost the same boat. But you don't even have to go that far down the totem pole. Ask a Craftworld Eldar or Dark Eldar or Tyranid Prime, or Tau, or Guard, or Admech, or Greyknight player how many releases they got. 1 model each at best.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh no your faction got tons of models and is doing great for rules. Cry me a river. Ha now I get to be the bitter salty one.

Indeed sir! Salt away! But I will point out chaos marines got no new models. TS and DG did. NOT chaos marines. Same old failcast Abbadon, same gak box of chaos marines with bell bottoms. I collect AL not DG or TS.

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh no your faction got tons of models and is doing great for rules. Cry me a river. Ha now I get to be the bitter salty one.

Indeed sir! Salt away! But I will point out chaos marines got no new models. TS and DG did. NOT chaos marines. Same old failcast Abbadon, same gak box of chaos marines with bell bottoms. I collect AL not DG or TS.

I'm genuinely impressed that you're continuing to complain. I have no idea why you got the impression that basic CSMs would be updated. When was the last time a basic troop choice WAS updated even? For anyone? I think the newest one was Space Marine to add in grav weapons? What was that like 5 years ago?

Even then, there are factions before Chaos that need their troops updated. Orks could probably use one if only to straighten out their backs. The warbuggy kit is like 20 years old. I think it might be the oldest plastic sculpt GW still sell. I'm pretty sure tyranid gaunts don't have stranglewebs or spikerifles in their kit despite options for it. Eldar have been desperate for plastic Aspect Warrior kits for the better part of a decade.Necron Warriors haven't been updated. They still have green plastic rods as part of their kit despite newer gauss weapons having solid chambers with that line/circle pattern in it.

It's really obvious that GW only update plastic kits when they absolutely NEED to, so I don't know why you got the impression CSM would be any different.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh no your faction got tons of models and is doing great for rules. Cry me a river. Ha now I get to be the bitter salty one.

Indeed sir! Salt away! But I will point out chaos marines got no new models. TS and DG did. NOT chaos marines. Same old failcast Abbadon, same gak box of chaos marines with bell bottoms. I collect AL not DG or TS.

I'm genuinely impressed that you're continuing to complain. I have no idea why you got the impression that basic CSMs would be updated. When was the last time a basic troop choice WAS updated even? For anyone? I think the newest one was Space Marine to add in grav weapons? What was that like 5 years ago?

What about primaris marines? While superior, they are space marines, and the model range has been updated. While there was no reason to believe that basic CSM would be updated with a new basic kit, I honestly could not believe that they would not be, considering the release of a shiny new codex, and the importance of the faction in the current updated fluff. There is a world wide campaign featuring them going on right now. Dude I've got tons of metal chaos marines, metal dreadnought, metal noise marines, etc. I've got heldrakes in boxes in my closet. I can build any damn kind of army I want. Why does it bother you so much that I am disappointed with the mediocrity of the chaos kits? Are you just a GW white knight that can not tolerate any criticism of GW? I realize I came off salty, bitter, and unreasonable in the OP, but you seem to be the one with a weird hang up about my refusal to accept "meh good enough" FOR THE PRICES THAT GW IS CHARGING. If you have nothing further than personal attacks save them for a PM.
You are easily impressed sir.

ERJAK wrote:
This kind of stuff is a big part of why I'm getting sick to death of chaos players. Chaos has had 2 major release waves so far this year(12 months), including 2 daemon primarchs. Even space marines can only sort of tie them (deathwatch was way less impressive than thousand suns)

But because they're not the ones the OP wanted Chaos is getting nothing and is so woebegone and unloved and blah blah blah.

For the past from september to september Chaos have gotten 3 major centerpiece models, multiple books and more than a dozen new kits; meanwhile Sisters of Battle have gotten 1 non-special edition model in almost 20years, with inquisition in almost the same boat. But you don't even have to go that far down the totem pole. Ask a Craftworld Eldar or Dark Eldar or Tyranid Prime, or Tau, or Guard, or Admech, or Greyknight player how many releases they got. 1 model each at best.

Well I'm personally getting sick of generalist Imperium players with the obnoxious attitudes towards Chaos players when Imperium has bloated selection for forming battleforged armies from pool of easily 100+ unique unit options. C:CSM has ~30 unique non-HQ units, while just the normal C:SM has ~65-70 (lost count with the various elite options) unique non-HQ units. So yeah, Chaos players are total crybabies here.
And just to be clear, my text above is intended to be half-factual, half-comical response to quoted text. Don't take it too seriously.

Although I do honestly believe ERJAK's general attack against chaos player attitudes is highly unwarranted, especially when in this thread far majority of implied CSM players have been posting replies in positive spirit and generally dismissing OP's worries.

You also generalize Thousand Sons and Death Guard Primarchs as CSM, when they are more akin to more specific sub-factions, similar to Sisters of Battle or Deathwatch or Grey Knights mentioned by yourself.
Factually undivided general CSM has only gotten Legion rules but no actual new models, but this is ok, as 30k/HH has been providing CSM many nice modelling options in the past few years.
To be honest, I think Legion rules were something CSM players had wanted for long long time, it was our Long War, and finally we won.

ERJAK wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
At the very least I expected a new chaos marine box, a new cultist kit with new options, an obliterator/mutilator box, and some more new special characters.

Why would you expect all of this?

My general assumption is that we aren't going to see any new models from other factions until the Primaris line (including the inevitable Primaris SC's) are completely finished.

Uh, have you heard about our lord and saviour Mortarion and the sea of models he has brought that certainly isn't primaris?

This kind of stuff is a big part of why I'm getting sick to death of chaos players. Chaos has had 2 major release waves so far this year(12 months), including 2 daemon primarchs. Even space marines can only sort of tie them (deathwatch was way less impressive than thousand suns)

But because they're not the ones the OP wanted Chaos is getting nothing and is so woebegone and unloved and blah blah blah.

For the past from september to september Chaos have gotten 3 major centerpiece models, multiple books and more than a dozen new kits; meanwhile Sisters of Battle have gotten 1 non-special edition model in almost 20years, with inquisition in almost the same boat. But you don't even have to go that far down the totem pole. Ask a Craftworld Eldar or Dark Eldar or Tyranid Prime, or Tau, or Guard, or Admech, or Greyknight player how many releases they got. 1 model each at best.

In all fairness, the Dark Eldar range doesn't really need new models. It's one of the most updated model ranges in the game, next to space marines. If any given model range was looking that awesome, I wouldn't mind not getting a release for a while. I think GW is just doing catch up work, and I do believe that they have years of neglect of almost everything that isn't space marines and dark eldar to work on, and it is fair that we all have to wait our turn. I think the OP was figuring that since dark eldar got a huge release why isn't it our turn for that and what people don't realize is that we have pretty much 4 or 5 armies worth of dark eldar size releases to crank out and you can't do them back to back or else you'll leave everyone else out of the loop too.

The only "troop remake" I remember - apart from the obvious SM one - is the Tau Firewarrior kit. They got a new version, plus another unit option in the same box. Every other army has their "core troops" since at least a decade, with CSM being the oldest kit of them (could be wrong here). I think IG players might argue about this, but I think the basic CSM kit has aged the worst of all the troop kits still in production.

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh no your faction got tons of models and is doing great for rules. Cry me a river. Ha now I get to be the bitter salty one.

Indeed sir! Salt away! But I will point out chaos marines got no new models. TS and DG did. NOT chaos marines. Same old failcast Abbadon, same gak box of chaos marines with bell bottoms. I collect AL not DG or TS.

I'm genuinely impressed that you're continuing to complain. I have no idea why you got the impression that basic CSMs would be updated. When was the last time a basic troop choice WAS updated even? For anyone? I think the newest one was Space Marine to add in grav weapons? What was that like 5 years ago?

What about primaris marines? While superior, they are space marines, and the model range has been updated.

So you complain that "TS and DG are not really CSM" but bring up Primaris for SM? Seriously? You just made sure you can not be taken serious in this discussion anymore.

You could have instead pointed out that SM got a big remake for most of their range: Tacticals, Assault Marines, Devastators, Veterans (two types!) all got new kits in the last years. Not to speak about the armour variants you got from the Calth and Prospero releases.

Primaris Marines are, by their looks, rules and background, basically another subfaction of SM, comparable to DG and TS. It is understandable that people - myself included, but I'm biased since I can not wait for DG - can not see Primaris kits any more after two months of non-stop releases. But they are apples and oranges when it comes to the SM/CSM troops discussion.

Primaris Marines are, by their looks, rules and background, basically another subfaction of SM, comparable to DG and TS

How so? This isn't like Wulfen for SW or Death Troops from BA, these can be taken by every SM faction, can be used by any chapter tactics, are intended to be replacements to bring up Chapter Strength and restore lost Chapters.. It's like saying Centurions are a subfaction of SM.

 Darnok wrote:
The only "troop remake" I remember - apart from the obvious SM one - is the Tau Firewarrior kit. They got a new version, plus another unit option in the same box. Every other army has their "core troops" since at least a decade, with CSM being the oldest kit of them (could be wrong here). I think IG players might argue about this, but I think the basic CSM kit has aged the worst of all the troop kits still in production.

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh no your faction got tons of models and is doing great for rules. Cry me a river. Ha now I get to be the bitter salty one.

Indeed sir! Salt away! But I will point out chaos marines got no new models. TS and DG did. NOT chaos marines. Same old failcast Abbadon, same gak box of chaos marines with bell bottoms. I collect AL not DG or TS.

I'm genuinely impressed that you're continuing to complain. I have no idea why you got the impression that basic CSMs would be updated. When was the last time a basic troop choice WAS updated even? For anyone? I think the newest one was Space Marine to add in grav weapons? What was that like 5 years ago?

What about primaris marines? While superior, they are space marines, and the model range has been updated.

So you complain that "TS and DG are not really CSM" but bring up Primaris for SM? Seriously? You just made sure you can not be taken serious in this discussion anymore.

You could have instead pointed out that SM got a big remake for most of their range: Tacticals, Assault Marines, Devastators, Veterans (two types!) all got new kits in the last years. Not to speak about the armour variants you got from the Calth and Prospero releases.

Primaris Marines are, by their looks, rules and background, basically another subfaction of SM, comparable to DG and TS. It is understandable that people - myself included, but I'm biased since I can not wait for DG - can not see Primaris kits any more after two months of non-stop releases. But they are apples and oranges when it comes to the SM/CSM troops discussion.

Greetings Darnok! Good to see another Warseer around. Wow I always respected your viewpoint on WS but really? DG and TS are officially sub factions. Primaris are just a new troop type for SM of all factions. A new basic troop type. If that was the last straw that made sure that I am not to be taken seriously anymore, I don't really know what to tell you dude. Primaris kit is a new basic kit. DG and TS are new factions. Yes you can use them as elites in any CSM army but they are stand alone factions. As I said above I always respected your viewpoint and humor in warseer, kinda sad to see you here on dakka slinging mud down in the dirt with the rest of us. How the mighty have fallen eh?

 Purifier wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
At the very least I expected a new chaos marine box, a new cultist kit with new options, an obliterator/mutilator box, and some more new special characters.

Why would you expect all of this?

My general assumption is that we aren't going to see any new models from other factions until the Primaris line (including the inevitable Primaris SC's) are completely finished.

Uh, have you heard about our lord and saviour Mortarion and the sea of models he has brought that certainly isn't primaris?

They're already made and all but released- how do Death Guard conflict with what I'm saying in any way?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

macluvin wrote:
In all fairness, the Dark Eldar range doesn't really need new models. It's one of the most updated model ranges in the game, next to space marines. If any given model range was looking that awesome, I wouldn't mind not getting a release for a while. I think GW is just doing catch up work, and I do believe that they have years of neglect of almost everything that isn't space marines and dark eldar to work on, and it is fair that we all have to wait our turn. I think the OP was figuring that since dark eldar got a huge release why isn't it our turn for that and what people don't realize is that we have pretty much 4 or 5 armies worth of dark eldar size releases to crank out and you can't do them back to back or else you'll leave everyone else out of the loop too.

Considering that our codex was gutted utterly due to everything that didn't have models getting removed, I'd say that no actually, Dark Eldar need quite a few models.

Weren't you one of the guys who was absolutely certain that there wouldn't be any Xenos codex releases this year? You might want to curb your bitterness a bit.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Primaris Marines are, by their looks, rules and background, basically another subfaction of SM, comparable to DG and TS

How so? This isn't like Wulfen for SW or Death Troops from BA, these can be taken by every SM faction, can be used by any chapter tactics, are intended to be replacements to bring up Chapter Strength and restore lost Chapters.. It's like saying Centurions are a subfaction of SM.

I will start by explaining what I mean with the term "subfaction": it is a part of a bigger range of models/units that can played on its own in a legal and meaningful way, but can also use elements of its "main faction". The best example is the SM range (main faction) with BA, DA, SW as subfactions. You can clearly play those three "on their own", but they can (and sometimes should) use units that are "basic SM". Another example would be CSM (main faction) and WE, DG, TS as subfactions. Again, you can play those three on their own - WE don't really miss a lot actually, apart from psykers - but they share some models/units with their "parent faction", similar to the SM examples given.

Primaris Marines are just like that: you can play them on their own, while you also have the option to add models/units from the wider SM range. You do not have to, but you can.

Wulfen, Death Company and Centurions are nothing like that: those are simply specific units from their respective codex. You can not play them as a legal army on their own - not outside of Open Play, that is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
Greetings Darnok! Good to see another Warseer around. Wow I always respected your viewpoint on WS but really? DG and TS are officially sub factions. Primaris are just a new troop type for SM of all factions. A new basic troop type. If that was the last straw that made sure that I am not to be taken seriously anymore, I don't really know what to tell you dude. Primaris kit is a new basic kit. DG and TS are new factions. Yes you can use them as elites in any CSM army but they are stand alone factions. As I said above I always respected your viewpoint and humor in warseer, kinda sad to see you here on dakka slinging mud down in the dirt with the rest of us. How the mighty have fallen eh?

See my previous comments on what I mean when I talk about subfactions. Primaris Marines are exactly that: you can play them on their own, but you could also add elements from the wider SM range. Just like DG or TS.

You could also cut on that condescending Warseer stuff. There is nothing mighty about me, the same as there is nothing muddy about this community either.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
They're already made and all but released- how do Death Guard conflict with what I'm saying in any way?

Well they aren't released, we know they will be and they aren't primaris, so basically in the most flamboyant and literal way anything could ever conflict with anything?