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AnFéasógMór wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:


A more comparable example would be saying, "You may have a single sheep." "Sheep" is both singular and plural for sheep, but the use of the word "single" clarifies exactly how many sheep we may have.

Man, it deeply wounds my faith in humanity that someone actually has to explain this

Except that, yes, single sheep and single deer can only mean sheep or deer in the singular.

Single dice can mean single set of dice. Like when you are making a single dice roll of 2d6. Many tabletop games with have "single dice" as set of dice.

And that somebody should have to explain the difference between these concepts should be what wounds your faith.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:


A more comparable example would be saying, "You may have a single sheep." "Sheep" is both singular and plural for sheep, but the use of the word "single" clarifies exactly how many sheep we may have.

Man, it deeply wounds my faith in humanity that someone actually has to explain this

Except that, yes, single sheep and single deer can only mean sheep or deer in the singular.

Single dice can mean single set of dice. Like when you are making a single dice roll of 2d6. Many tabletop games with have "single dice" as set of dice.

And that somebody should have to explain the difference between these concepts should be what wounds your faith.

Single dice means one die. Period. Single SET of dice or single dice ROLL means one or more dice. Reading "single dice" as anything but a single object you roll to generate a random number is obtuse at best and willfully wrong-headed at worst.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
"Any single Dice" can mean...

2) any single dice(in the plural usage of the result)

Is that like "any single books" or "any single dogs" or any other single examples?

No, it's like "any single glasses" or "any single scissors" or "any single pants". You don't break yours in half when someone asks for one of these.

Those do not appear to be grammatically correct examples. To add the word single you must also add the word pair; "any single pair of glasses" or "any single pair of scissors" or "any single pair of pants". It is worth noting that this is the case in BrE and I have no idea if it is also the case in AmE or AuE etc., although I would be interested to find out. The rules, however, are written in BrE and, in that language, there is no ambiguity in the term "a single dice" it can only mean "a die", "one dice" or "one die" (all of which are synonyms, of course).

AmE is also pair of.

The fact that GW uses "dice" to refer to a single cube throughout the rulebook makes it blatantly obvious that "single dice" refers to one cube and "single dice roll" would refer to any number of cubes rolled, and probably "single dice result" would imply (to me) that you could re-roll any number of cubes you wanted in order to change the total result as you wanted.

dadx6 wrote:
The fact that GW uses "dice" to refer to a single cube throughout the rulebook makes it blatantly obvious that "single dice" refers to one cube and "single dice roll" would refer to any number of cubes rolled, and probably "single dice result" would imply (to me) that you could re-roll any number of cubes you wanted in order to change the total result as you wanted.

Single dice result is absolutely all of the dice; the Errata for that was quoted in this thread.

 Arkaine wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
"Any single Dice" can mean...

2) any single dice(in the plural usage of the result)

Is that like "any single books" or "any single dogs" or any other single examples?

No, it's like "any single glasses" or "any single scissors" or "any single pants". You don't break yours in half when someone asks for one of these.

Please, I beg of you, find me a single person who (not trying to win a semantic argument they don't actually have semantic support for, like here) ever, ever, eveeeeeer says "any single glasses" or "any single scissors" or "any single pants". They don't. They say "a single pair of glasses/scissors/pants".

For that matter, I would love to see your examples of games that "use a single dice", not "set of dice" to mean a plural amount of dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:

 Octopoid wrote:


A more comparable example would be saying, "You may have a single sheep." "Sheep" is both singular and plural for sheep, but the use of the word "single" clarifies exactly how many sheep we may have.

Man, it deeply wounds my faith in humanity that someone actually has to explain this

Except that, yes, single sheep and single deer can only mean sheep or deer in the singular.

Single dice can mean single set of dice. Like when you are making a single dice roll of 2d6. Many tabletop games with have "single dice" as set of dice.

And that somebody should have to explain the difference between these concepts should be what wounds your faith.

There is literally nothing to support this, other than your arbitrary decision that it does to support your point. If "a single dice" can mean a single, singular die, or a single, plural set of dice, than there is no reason "a single deer" couldn't mean a single metric [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] of different deer. It doesn't work that way.

Also, single is singular. That's the literal definition of the term.

Deer or sheep are the only words for plural or singular.

Single deer can only ever mean 1.

Dice can be singular or plural, but there is also the singular form: die.

GW uses dice for both because it is easier than switching back and forth between roll a die and roll the dice.

For the same reason, and because it is unnecessary as an implied article they do not add "rolled" on rerolls; as in "reroll the dice rolled".obviously you cannot reroll dice that were not rolled to begin with(and am I talking about 1 dice here or many?).

"Set of" or "result" could be an implied article in the strategem; but that is not necessarily the case. We simply do not know. You are speaking in absolutes but are frankly making a fool of yourself with both using an example that literally cannot be read as any other result than that which fits your argument and trying to scream-down anyone that points this out.

Hey, y'know what, It's however you enjoy playing the game. If you want to interpret rules in ways that make zero sense, in direct opposition to what they clearly, unambiguously say, have at it. If you wanna translate "re-roll a single dice" as "re-roll all the dice I ever rolled however many times I want to, plus free cheeseburgers for life," or whatever, feel free.

But it won't change the fact that "a single dice," in the real world, clearly, unambiguously, and inarguably mean "one, single, solitary, non-plural die," and good luck finding any TO willing to buy that argument, or for that matter, many other players who don't just pack up their minis and head home when you pull that one.

It's a ridiculous argument. And you know that

Problem is this:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

I have heard no less then three different re-roll arguments based on that one piece of Errata alone, and they all make sense....
Errata the Errata please!

Personally:
Single Dice is 'otherwise stated' enough for me, pick a single die within the result and re-roll it.
And, ranting mood and all, the Writers always do a bloody terrible job when they 'state otherwise' in most cases... not just this one.

 JinxDragon wrote:

And, ranting mood and all, the Writers always do a bloody terrible job when they 'state otherwise' in most cases... not just this one.

In this case, though, they didn't. "Re-roll any single dice" is perfectly clear, concise, and unambiguous if you're not trying to argue a meaning that no reasonable person could accept as the semantic intent of the phrase.

It is easy to say your opponents are simply 'arguing a meaning that no reasonable person could accept as the semantic intent,' but there was THREE different interpretations and this one isn't even difficult.

If this was previous editions, I could even point to several Frequently Asked Question answers where something unambiguous was changed for reasons no sane man could fathom.
Wouldn't be surprised to one day find a Frequently Asked Question answer, likely directed at a completely unrelated situation, stating 'if you re-roll any single dice, you re-roll the entire result....'

 JinxDragon wrote:
It is easy to say your opponents are simply 'arguing a meaning that no reasonable person could accept as the semantic intent,' but there was THREE different interpretations and this one isn't even difficult.
If this was previous editions, I could even point to several Frequently Asked Question answers where something unambiguous was changed for reasons no sane man could fathom....

And only one of those interpretations merited paying any attention to, because only one of them was based in any sense. The rule says "any single dice". That is unambiguous. That is inarguable.

Single. Singular. Referring. To. One. Single. Item. Not two. Not twenty. Not all. Not some. Any single.

The other interpretations are not entitled to some magical respect simply because someone decided that something in ambiguous was open for interpretation, and they're entitled to their opinion or whatever. Those interpretations were nonsensical, and not worth giving a platform.

Something unreasonable doesn't magically become reasonable because somebody chooses to believe it.

Look, I stated I am in your camp so you can tone down the responses... but if that someone was the Author in charge of a Frequently Asked Question answer....
Yes, it does magically change!

 JinxDragon wrote:
you can tone down the responses

Mate, you get what you give.

AnFéasógMór wrote:

 JinxDragon wrote:
you can tone down the responses

Mate, you get what you give.

Facts? He's giving facts.

 Arkaine wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:

 JinxDragon wrote:
you can tone down the responses

Mate, you get what you give.

Facts? He's giving facts.

1) No, he's white knighting for an argument that isn't supported by facts

2) Since you apparently can't figure out context, I'm not talking about his arguments and whether or not they're factual, I'm talking about his tendency to be condescending but then complaining that I should "tone down my response", in which light your comment as about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.

I would like to take a moment, before requesting a lock as this is just one person attacking another now, that this was the post of mine that started this:

RULE SNIPPED

I have heard no less then three different re-roll arguments based on that one piece of Errata alone, and they all make sense....
Errata the Errata please!

Personally:
Single Dice is 'otherwise stated' enough for me, pick a single die within the result and re-roll it.
And, ranting mood and all, the Writers always do a bloody terrible job when they 'state otherwise' in most cases... not just this one.



Simply admitting that three groups interpenetrated the Rule differently was enough to begin this entire trade....
1) Single Dice on Multi-dice Result - Triggers 'Otherwise Stated' so only one dice in the Result is rolled
2) Single Dice on Multi-dice Result - Grants permission to roll all dice, as must do so for multi-diced Results
3) Single Dice can only be used for single-dice Results - Doesn't violate the Must clause by never granting more then one dice

All are sound from different points of view, that last one is surprisingly popular because of the 'break no Rule' mentality a lot of players have.
Believe it or not; some people are actually bothered that the 'single dice' Stratagem states nothing about the 'Must re-roll all dice' requirement of a Multi-dice Result....

Sure I can assume that 'single dice' most likely meant option 1....
Can't figure out why we would call people whom believe 3 names?
2... less so, have at those guys if you want!

 JinxDragon wrote:

3) Single Dice can only be used for single-dice Results - Doesn't violate the Must clause by never granting more then one dice

Can't figure out why we would call people whom believe 3 names?
2... less so, have at those guys if you want!

Well, y'know, given that I didn't, I simply said it would be ridiculous an unreasonable.

Which it is.

Literally everyone in the game could have the "break no rule mentality" as you out it, and it wouldn't make that mentality actually supported by the rules, given that the rules literally tell you to break rules when there is a specific rule telling you to do so. And in the case of this particular rule, the rule in question wouldn't even be "broken" because it specifically says unless otherwise specified

You can try to twist it into "all three are valid interpretations" all you want, it won't make it true. "Single dice"=/="single set of multiple dice". If it did, it would say that. "Single dice"=/="single dice result". If it did, it would say that. That's how permissive rules work. Single dice means single dice.

It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

I really want this to be a troll post because of how hilariously it embodies all of the arguments in this thread so far! Not sure if it is or not though.....

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Exalted - I love it!

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

100% true.

AnFéasógMór,
Wait, are you stating we are allowed to break Rules?
The way I look at it, when a Rule tells me I have specific Permission to do X in the case of Y we do not break any Rule as long as we do X in the case of Y.
This is because Rules can change how other Rules function....


Also... calling someone's interpenetration ridiculous simply because they don't share your view point is insulting them, for they must believe in ridiculous things.

You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

 Primark G wrote:
You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

Except that's not what the errata says...

Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

 Primark G wrote:
You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This is explicitly incorrect, due to the inclusion of the phrase "unless otherwise stated." It is otherwise stated in the stratagem that you re-roll "a single dice." Single. Not plural.

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

 Byte wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

No. The errata is clear. The arguments have been over the wording of the stratagem and if it indeed states that you can re-roll a single die.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Byte wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

No. The errata is clear. The arguments have been over the wording of the stratagem and if it indeed states that you can re-roll a single die.

Which it does.