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How much longer is it going to take omg? The wait is killing me, I cant stand this hope of gw finally making us a good codex but knowing deep inside that it is really unlikely
Ive heard that most codex have taken into account community feedback, is this true?

I wouldn't say "most." Some.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't think it's a problem with random shots though. I've had people claim 24 shots for a single hurricane bolter

It seems silly, to me, to make a second order of randomness for no real purpose. Aren't dice random enough? Why Do I need to roll a random number of random number generators? The only thing is does, IMHO, is waste time. If I knew it was 4 per loota, I could just roll them and be done with it.

I was just referring to the guy unable to calculate d3 x 15 lootas. Layers of dice rolling are always dumb, since you could just roll all the dice at once with a 4+/5+/6+ chance to succeed for almost the same statistical result. Or, like Semper said, eliminate the dice if you are very unlikely do roll something far from the average.

How would you all feel if orks got slightly less powerfull clan traits than other armies have, but in exchange are allowed to mix and match trains inside of a single detachment to representa warboss absorbing other klans into his waagh? This way we could have boys with one trait, bikers with another, lootas with yet a third, etc etc.

 davou wrote:
How would you all feel if orks got slightly less powerfull clan traits than other armies have, but in exchange are allowed to mix and match trains inside of a single detachment to representa warboss absorbing other klans into his waagh? This way we could have boys with one trait, bikers with another, lootas with yet a third, etc etc.

I'd go for that, especially if it extended to transports. I've got Evil Sunz trukks and Blood Axe boyz.

 davou wrote:
How would you all feel if orks got slightly less powerfull clan traits than other armies have, but in exchange are allowed to mix and match trains inside of a single detachment to representa warboss absorbing other klans into his waagh? This way we could have boys with one trait, bikers with another, lootas with yet a third, etc etc.

Eh, you would basically not have clan traits, but just units with some additional rule similar to 'ere we go and mob rule. It's highly unlikely that more than one clan trait is optimal for a lot of units.

Proper clan traits are much preferred.

Also note that in the fluff, while ork clans are united during a Waaagh!, they still stick to their clan within that Waaagh!. For example, in IA8 the local ork forces consist of Evil Suns, Deff Skulls and Goffs, who are all united under Mekboss Buzzgob. However, the evil suns still have separate encampments, their own way of fighting and follow their Warboss Zardsnark. Buzzgob is not giving orders to any of the evil suns, he is giving them to Zardsnark. Same for the deff skulls who were following Skalk Blootoof (who sadly never got a model), Buzzgob needed to bribe him with scrap in order to get his troops into the fight.

So basically, different klan fighting along side each other is represented pretty well by having multiple detachments of different klan in your army.

I know many people, including me, have painted their army to be a mix of klans, but that's actually not what the fluff shows.

 davou wrote:
How would you all feel if orks got slightly less powerfull clan traits than other armies have, but in exchange are allowed to mix and match trains inside of a single detachment to representa warboss absorbing other klans into his waagh? This way we could have boys with one trait, bikers with another, lootas with yet a third, etc etc.

I wouldn't mind it but I can't see it happening for 3 reasons -

1. In my head canon (which might be totally wrong, mind) when an Ork Warboss subsumes a few Clans into his own those new members start to adopt traits of his favoured Clan by virtue of following the "biggest and da best". Unless they are allowed to be led by a subservient Warboss in the case of Ghazzy and his lieutenants.
2. No other codex operates in this way.
3. It would require more micromanagement and bookkeeping for both players.

I think keeping clan abilities as one per detachment is the way to go, mixing them within detachments would get messy very quickly.

The best way to support mixed armies would be to compensate for the loss of Command Points from taking more smaller detachments from different clans rather than taking one big battalion.

Perhaps this could be done with a Warlord trait that grants bonus Command Points if your army includes more than one clan detachment (excluding certain types, like auxiliary detachments)? For example, you could get 1 bonus CP for every two battle line detachments in your army that belong to a unique clan.

I think it would be cool if we compiled all current ork whispers/rumors, created a thread and added to it as stuff leaks.

I'm getting antsy constantly checking in here to see if there's been anything to come out of the woods

Do you mean the things that are leaked by more or less reliable sources or the forum wishlists that have become rumors?

The actual rumors are pretty slim:
- We have the orky wheel from the rumor mill
- Orks are rumored for both june/july and december. I guess the later was wrong
- There is a rumor for a kult of speed codex, from the same source as the december date
- There is supposed to be an Orks vs Space Wolves box
- I'm not sure if the "new Ghaz model" rumor is an actual rumor
- I'm very sure that the "primorks" rumor in any shape does not come from any leak, but is just constantly brought up by different forum posters for having it read somewhere.

 Jidmah wrote:
Do you mean the things that are leaked by more or less reliable sources or the forum wishlists that have become rumors?

The actual rumors are pretty slim:
- We have the orky wheel from the rumor mill
- Orks are rumored for both june/july and december. I guess the later was wrong
- There is a rumor for a kult of speed codex, from the same source as the december date
- There is supposed to be an Orks vs Space Wolves box
- I'm not sure if the "new Ghaz model" rumor is an actual rumor
- I'm very sure that the "primorks" rumor in any shape does not come from any leak, but is just constantly brought up by different forum posters for having it read somewhere.

Apparently "industry insiders" are responsible for the new Ghazzy model rumour. It is definitely a rumour though, Valrak maintains its happening.

I'm the same as davou - I have about 4 tabs always open and dedicated to possible Ork rumours on near continuous refresh. I'm finding the lack of noise worrying.

I have a somewhat strong feeling that November-December rumor was not that much of a rumor after all given lack of any leaks or creating hype. They'll probably prefer to release yet another power armor flavor before us.

Personally, I'm very burned after practically 1 year of waiting, so I'm trying to keep my expectations to an absolute minimum.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Do you mean the things that are leaked by more or less reliable sources or the forum wishlists that have become rumors?

The actual rumors are pretty slim:
- We have the orky wheel from the rumor mill
- Orks are rumored for both june/july and december. I guess the later was wrong
- There is a rumor for a kult of speed codex, from the same source as the december date
- There is supposed to be an Orks vs Space Wolves box
- I'm not sure if the "new Ghaz model" rumor is an actual rumor
- I'm very sure that the "primorks" rumor in any shape does not come from any leak, but is just constantly brought up by different forum posters for having it read somewhere.

Apparently "industry insiders" are responsible for the new Ghazzy model rumour. It is definitely a rumour though, Valrak maintains its happening.

I'm the same as davou - I have about 4 tabs always open and dedicated to possible Ork rumours on near continuous refresh. I'm finding the lack of noise worrying.

What sites do you use to scout for rumors?

mhalko1 wrote:
What sites do you use to scout for rumors?

Reddit, BOLS, Spikey Bits, Bolter and Chainsword and here lol

 JawRippa wrote:
I have a somewhat strong feeling that November-December rumor was not that much of a rumor after all given lack of any leaks or creating hype. They'll probably prefer to release yet another power armor flavor before us.

Personally, I'm very burned after practically 1 year of waiting, so I'm trying to keep my expectations to an absolute minimum.

I am the same way except I am burned from 5th, 6th, 7th, 7th supplement, 7th 2nd Supplement, 7th Flyer release, 8th index and the numerous FAQs and the CA that has since nerfed orkz even more. Its been so long since we have had a GOOD, up to date codex that I am just hoping that our 8th edition codex isn't as big a steaming pile of crap as our 7th edition was. But I am not holding my breath, especially since the FAQs and the CA have so far just confirmed that orkz are meant to be bad on purpose. I am still pissed at how GW told us that the BWs DO NOT give their rule to passengers, thus making a possible viable build with Flash Gitz unusable......and the BW for that matter

I dont care about the BW not giving its rule to the passengers, what I do care about is it being 160 points with no weapons T7 and 4+ (and of course not being able to disembark after moving), but anyway, its just another thing to add to the list of useless stuff where 85% of our "codex" is already.
What pisses me off is the max 3 weirdboys from the beta rules, because Weirdboy spam+horde was the only viable build..

Lets just hope for a nice surprise...

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
What pisses me off is the max 3 weirdboys from the beta rules, because Weirdboy spam+horde was the only viable build..

Weridboy spam is toxic to the game, so good riddance. The only way to make spamming weirdboyz balanced would be increasing their costs to a point where single or double weirdboyz would be useless.

I dont care about the BW not giving its rule to the passengers,

Really?? Because if that FAQ had gone the other way, the BW would at least have a great use of shuttling around Flash gitz

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
What pisses me off is the max 3 weirdboys from the beta rules, because Weirdboy spam+horde was the only viable build..

Weridboy spam is toxic to the game, so good riddance. The only way to make spamming weirdboyz balanced would be increasing their costs to a point where single or double weirdboyz would be useless.

Its also toxic to the game having one way of building the army if you dont want to autolose, and having close to all of your army choices being useless. If we get a decent codex then I agree, Weirdboy spam had to go, if not then... well, bye 40k

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

I dont care about the BW not giving its rule to the passengers,

Really?? Because if that FAQ had gone the other way, the BW would at least have a great use of shuttling around Flash gitz

I dont think that was the idea of the rule, thats why im ok with it, but BW needs either a point reduction or an increase in durability (and maybe both if we dont get a way to disembark after moving)

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
Its also toxic to the game having one way of building the army if you dont want to autolose, and having close to all of your army choices being useless. If we get a decent codex then I agree, Weirdboy spam had to go, if not then... well, bye 40k

I don't think you understand what "toxic to a game" means. Having one army suck and have no viable build is terrible, but doesn't ruin the game for any other army.

Having a mechanic that circumvents most defensive mechanisms en masse is terrible to the every single game against that army, affecting a lot more games and players, warping the meta game and pushing a large number of units and armies out of the game. Malefic Lords have sufficiently proven that.

Even if its your own army, having that army to not be viable is better than every other not being viable in the long run.
Or do you think orks would work better if the next CA came around and pushed weirdboyz to 100+ points to balance spam?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
Its also toxic to the game having one way of building the army if you dont want to autolose, and having close to all of your army choices being useless. If we get a decent codex then I agree, Weirdboy spam had to go, if not then... well, bye 40k

I don't think you understand what "toxic to a game" means. Having one army suck and have no viable build is terrible, but doesn't ruin the game for any other army.

Having a mechanic that circumvents most defensive mechanisms en masse is terrible to the every single game against that army, affecting a lot more games and players, warping the meta game and pushing a large number of units and armies out of the game. Malefic Lords have sufficiently proven that.

Even if its your own army, having that army to not be viable is better than every other not being viable in the long run.
Or do you think orks would work better if the next CA came around and pushed weirdboyz to 100+ points to balance spam?

As I said, if we get a balanced codex I wouldnt mind if weirdboys get more expensive, anyway is not necessary now that they are limited by the beta rules.

Regarding the toxicity matter, is exactly the same, having an army that sucks ruins the game exactly the same way as having an op army does. If you have an op army you ruin the game for your oponent, if you have an useless army, then the game is ruined for you, either way one of the two players in a game where orks are involved has a bad time. (And btw I dont think weirdboy spam was op).

But anyway it makes no sense arguing about this, what is done is done, we can only wish gw stops giving us crap for once.

Weird boys already circumvent the 'transport' mechanic for our units so I'd call them toxic anyway, particularly as a primary Evil Suns player.

Been wish listing the cool traits that each clan will give us, and honestly the one Clan I'm unsure of is Death Skulls. I love Lootaz so I'm hoping they get something relevant, but I can't imagine what! We have Fast Orks, tough Orkz, fighty Orkz, sneaky Orkz, and flashy orkz....

What are the Death Skulls gonna get??

Edit:

Alright, after some thought heres one...

Units in CC with Death Skull units cannot fall back from CC, the Boyz are busy holding on, trying to grab their loot!

Units with Fly will still be an issue, they would be exempt for reasons I'm sure... Hate T'au...

I hope to see it as a stratagem at the very least.

From IA:8, probably one of the most awesome fluff sources for orks:



The same book also describes burna boyz usually being deff skulls as they use their burnas to cut appart scrap.

I am really hoping we get Klan Specific troops.

For instance, if I take a Blood Axe army I can use Kommandos as troops instead of boyz, or Stormboyz as troops for Evil Sunz, maybe even nobz for Goffs and Flashgtiz/lootas for Freebootaz and deff skullz.

I can't see kommandos doing that well only being able to take 3 squads of 15 at most, especially since they are no better then boyz with +1 to cover saves and the ability to appear anywhere on the battlefield.

SemperMortis wrote:
I am really hoping we get Klan Specific troops.

For instance, if I take a Blood Axe army I can use Kommandos as troops instead of boyz, or Stormboyz as troops for Evil Sunz, maybe even nobz for Goffs and Flashgtiz/lootas for Freebootaz and deff skullz.

I can't see kommandos doing that well only being able to take 3 squads of 15 at most, especially since they are no better then boyz with +1 to cover saves and the ability to appear anywhere on the battlefield.

It hasn't happened before as far as I'm aware for any other codex so I can't see it happening now.

I'd expect the standard that every other codex has received, unless we are told otherwise.

 Jidmah wrote:
From IA:8, probably one of the most awesome fluff sources for orks:



The same book also describes burna boyz usually being deff skulls as they use their burnas to cut appart scrap.

Excuse me. The only fluff sources for ORKS are ‘ere we go and freebooterz. Period!

You clearly haven't read that book.

 Jidmah wrote:
You clearly haven't read that book.

U make a lot of presumptions mate, I’ve read that book plenty. Used to own it but its the story of one warband. The others are bibles of ORK greatness and all you ever need to know about Greenskins warfare and kulture. If you don’t have them I suggest you get them or pdfs at least. That was when rule book were great. Had mine for nearly 30 years and they haven’t been bettered.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I am really hoping we get Klan Specific troops.

For instance, if I take a Blood Axe army I can use Kommandos as troops instead of boyz, or Stormboyz as troops for Evil Sunz, maybe even nobz for Goffs and Flashgtiz/lootas for Freebootaz and deff skullz.

I can't see kommandos doing that well only being able to take 3 squads of 15 at most, especially since they are no better then boyz with +1 to cover saves and the ability to appear anywhere on the battlefield.

It hasn't happened before as far as I'm aware for any other codex so I can't see it happening now.

I'd expect the standard that every other codex has received, unless we are told otherwise.

I am sadly aware :( I just don't see how I can use a blood axe army if I am hamstrung to using the rule of 3 for Kommandos. Likewise I don't see the point in fielding a Speed Freakz list if I can't take all 35-40 of my Warbikes in several smaller units as opposed to 3 great big targets.