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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, I suppose one can look at it that way.

It's not looking at it any way. They explicitly say that in the article.

Well, if you count disembarking on the other side of the vehicle as 'redeployment' it would work.

Turn 1: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 2: Shoot, Embark
Turn 3: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 4: Shoot, Embark

And every second turn you could use the stratagem. Works best with a Capitol Imperialis or a Leviathan.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

I share the same position as Zewrath. Mount Up seems like an incredibly weak order. If you are playing an opponent & he knows you are playing Steel Legion, his highest priority is going to be targeting any vets exiting a chimera. They will not survive the one round of shooting they are exposed against any competent player.

And what happens when we're talking about, say, multiple infantry squads exiting multiple Chimeras or Stormlords even?

There's only so much that you're going to be able to deal with when this is being used en masse.

 Stus67 wrote:
Steel Legion to me appears to be one of the weakest Regiments. Rapid Firing at 18" is pretty nice, but their vehicle rule is almost entirely useless, and their special order is pretty lackluster. The stratagem is alright I guess if you can actually find a scenario where it works.

Oh please. The Cadians are "reroll 1s To Hit if they stay still, reroll all To Hits if given a specific Order"--and we haven't seen their Order yet.

That, I feel, is the real dud. It would have been better as +1 to their Shooting Attacks(including/excluding Overwatch as the case may be) if they stay still.

LMAO posts like this should tell everyone on here never to take any tactical advice of your seriously.

Yeah, because I'm the idiot for failing to see how great "rerolling 1s to Hit if you stay still and rerolling all To Hits if granted a specific Order"(which can't be given to tanks and forbids you from being granted any additional Orders) is compared to being able to Rapid Fire any Rapid Fire weapon at up to 18" while bumping AP-1 to AP0...

If you can't see why it's a big deal that to take full advantage of a Regimental Doctrine mandates you use a specific Order? I can't help you with that.

jaxor1983 wrote:
Autocannons are probably the worst (least efficient, fewest situations where it is appropriate) heavy weapon in the game. I've yet to use one or play against a single one in 8th ediditon. It's a good thing chimeras now have a solid way to defend against them.

Idk I see quite a few, the predator autocanon seems to be the defacto way to run the now ubiquitous predator.

Thanks for proving my point.

Keep in mind, we haven't seen the actual text of the rule yet. it wouldn't make a ton of sense for it not to offer full re-rolls for the identical, but differently named "Gunners, Kill On Sight" rule from tank commanders.

Please refrain from quoting an entire wall of text only to reply with a single piddly line.

I'd like to present one way to look at Steel Legion,

1. 18" rapid fire is great, think about why death guard have it, its because they are slow and it lets them extend their firepower. For Guard we are using it for the opposite reason, to out range our opponent. At 18" you are far less likely to get charged than you are at 12", this way you can easily walk back from your opponent in a slow retreat, and ideally pop out and get your plasma in to a better position.

2. Everyone is crying about AP -1 ignoring being worthless, and against stuff like Lascannons, your most devastating anti-tank, it is. But last time I checked people aren't wasting lascannon shots on chimera's when there is artillery and tanks running about. Most of my transports are killed by Assault cannons and heavy bolters, and these are fairly common on the table these days. Cancelling out ap -1 is going to go a long way to make your transports survive to drop off their payloads, as well as take some pressure off of Leman Russes and manticores.

Pics from the NZ site:



Cadian Mobile Command Vehicle bundle



Firstborn Pride bundle



Datacards

- 7 psychic power cards - 6 from the Psykana psychic discipline, along with Smite;
- 25 Astra Militarum Stratagems available to any Battle-forged Astra Militarum army as found in Codex: Astra Militarum including 8 which are Regiment-specific, along with 3 Stratagems – Command Re-roll, Counter-Offensive and Insane Bravery – from the Warhammer 40,000 rules, available to any army;
- 18 Order cards;
- 36 Tactical Objectives, including the 6 Astra Militarum-specific Objectives from Codex: Astra Militarum.

Mobile Command Vehicle Strategem? That sounds promising...

With all the strategems we have and use for command points I think cadia and creed (pask and kel too) might be a lot more popular then people think.

Also new psychic powers mmmm

Armageddon troops will get to rapid fire their lasguns, then get into their chimera and fire the lasguns array. That's a nice little bonus. It's too bad it specifies aramageddon vehicle or they'd be able to get into a Valkyrie.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

xmbk wrote:
And losing a turn of shooting.

Turn 1: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 2: Shoot, Embark
Turn 3: Transport moves (redeploy), no Shoot
Turn 4: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 5: Shoot, Embark
Turn 6: Transport moves (redeploy), no Shoot

Normal Unit:

Turn 1: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 2: Embark, move
Turn 3: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 4: Embark, move
Turn 5: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 6: Embark, move

Or, more realistic:

Turn 1: Move
Turn 2: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 3: Shoot, Embark
Turn 4: Transport moves (redeploy), no Shoot
Turn 5: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 6: Shoot, (Embark)

Normal unit:

Turn 1: Move
Turn 2: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 3: Embark, move
Turn 4: Disembark, Shoot
Turn 5: Embark, move
Turn 6: Disembark, Shoot

I think it's kind of cute, how you're talking about Warhammer like it's a 6-turn game.

Seriously, this is a defensive ability, not a mobile one. Not a big deal, but the blurb on the tease doesn't seem accurate.

Also here's a question
Do vostroyans rapid fire weapons also gain 3in? Since hvy and rapid fire max range goes up by 6!
And if so doesn't that make steel legion 18in bonus even more pathetic in comparison.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I'd like to present one way to look at Steel Legion,

1. 18" rapid fire is great, think about why death guard have it, its because they are slow and it lets them extend their firepower. For Guard we are using it for the opposite reason, to out range our opponent. At 18" you are far less likely to get charged than you are at 12", this way you can easily walk back from your opponent in a slow retreat, and ideally pop out and get your plasma in to a better position.

2. Everyone is crying about AP -1 ignoring being worthless, and against stuff like Lascannons, your most devastating anti-tank, it is. But last time I checked people aren't wasting lascannon shots on chimera's when there is artillery and tanks running about. Most of my transports are killed by Assault cannons and heavy bolters, and these are fairly common on the table these days. Cancelling out ap -1 is going to go a long way to make your transports survive to drop off their payloads, as well as take some pressure off of Leman Russes and manticores.

A short way, very short. It's comparably quite weak. Most lists will simply adjust their target priorities, in a non-meaningful way. Very niche.

gungo wrote:
Also here's a question
Do vostroyans rapid fire weapons also gain 3in? Since hvy and rapid fire max range goes up by 6!
And if so doesn't that make steel legion 18in bonus even more pathetic in comparison.

Yeah, Vostroyans get an extra 3" of rapid fire range. Steel Legion is still going to look better for mechanized infantry, since you're all about maximizing your rapid fire output, while Vostroyans are clearly better at forming a gunline.

gungo wrote:
With all the strategems we have and use for command points I think cadia and creed (pask and kel too) might be a lot more popular then people think.

Also new psychic powers mmmm

Have we seen any particularly useful stratagems? I don't recall anything really impressive being mentioned.

Plus this guard we are talking about. Three battalions can cost as little as 450 points before adding in the actual power units, assuming infantry didn't go up in price.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Steel Legion to me appears to be one of the weakest Regiments. Rapid Firing at 18" is pretty nice, but their vehicle rule is almost entirely useless, and their special order is pretty lackluster. The stratagem is alright I guess if you can actually find a scenario where it works.

Oh please. The Cadians are "reroll 1s To Hit if they stay still, reroll all To Hits if given a specific Order"--and we haven't seen their Order yet.

That, I feel, is the real dud. It would have been better as +1 to their Shooting Attacks(including/excluding Overwatch as the case may be) if they stay still.

Rapid Fire at 18" is literally their only boon. It's a good one, but the only one. Everything else they get is practically useless at worst and highly situational at best. Their vehicle rule is almost completely useless, and their stratagem/order combo will more than likely never work the way it you want it to.

Ok so the steel legion order does indeed allow redeployment. This is because of something called "the movement please". I'm aware that guard players may not be aware of it, considering it an unwelcome distraction before the shooting phase, but it is relevant here.

Here's how it works. On turn one your veteran squad disembarks from the front of their chimera. They set up 3" plus the thickness of their base (just under 1") in front of the chimera. They are then allowed to "move" up to 6". In total they've traveled nearly 10" from their chimera.

This is interesting because they can double tap their 3 or 4 (if a command squad) plasma guns 18". Their threat range of nearly 28" may well allow for turn one double-tapping.

Alternatively, if the enemy has approached, you can use the "move" to increase the distance to them - staying just within 18" to rapid fire.

Meanwhile, the chimera is also able to move. It probably doesn't bother in turn one, so as to have no penalty to firing.

Turn two now arrives. You again move your infantry to 18" away from the target - or as far away as possible if you can't get that far. You move your chimera to meet them, staying behind the infantry. You fire, then embark - gaining more distance from the enemy.

I think that pretty often the order will be used to run out of a transport on turn one, then run back and jump in it again on turn two. The transport may not move in this time. But other times you might want to have the chimera (or taurox I guess) move sideways and have the infantry run to it.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I'd like to present one way to look at Steel Legion,

1. 18" rapid fire is great, think about why death guard have it, its because they are slow and it lets them extend their firepower. For Guard we are using it for the opposite reason, to out range our opponent. At 18" you are far less likely to get charged than you are at 12", this way you can easily walk back from your opponent in a slow retreat, and ideally pop out and get your plasma in to a better position.

2. Everyone is crying about AP -1 ignoring being worthless, and against stuff like Lascannons, your most devastating anti-tank, it is. But last time I checked people aren't wasting lascannon shots on chimera's when there is artillery and tanks running about. Most of my transports are killed by Assault cannons and heavy bolters, and these are fairly common on the table these days. Cancelling out ap -1 is going to go a long way to make your transports survive to drop off their payloads, as well as take some pressure off of Leman Russes and manticores.

Damn straight. I keep geting picked apart by Assault Cannon spam and this is good news to me!

I hope the Wyrdevayne Psykers get some love. Because with all of the psyker heavy lists out there, I wouldn't mind some more counter to that. Although 15pt Astropaths have denied their fair share of powers and denied a ton of cover saves. The +1 to armor saves is just a bonus.

 argonak wrote:
Armageddon troops will get to rapid fire their lasguns, then get into their chimera and fire the lasguns array. That's a nice little bonus. It's too bad it specifies aramageddon vehicle or they'd be able to get into a Valkyrie.

Also true, good catch there! The rule benefits you primarily on turns 2 and on, as you're unlikely to be disembarked turn 1, but it helps keep the pressure on with lasguns, effectively allowing you to fire your lasguns twice in a turn. It gives you a slightly worse FRFSRF effect and gets your dudesmen out of harm's way. You can also hop into another ride nearby if yours is blown up or the second is vacant (likely because the guys from it are hot ash and red chunks). The Chimera you got into couldn't shoot until your guys get in. Pretty neat! MIndblowing, no. But neat!

Mandragola wrote:
Ok so the steel legion order does indeed allow redeployment. This is because of something called "the movement please". I'm aware that guard players may not be aware of it, considering it an unwelcome distraction before the shooting phase, but it is relevant here.

Here's how it works. On turn one your veteran squad disembarks from the front of their chimera. They set up 3" plus the thickness of their base (just under 1") in front of the chimera. They are then allowed to "move" up to 6". In total they've traveled nearly 10" from their chimera.

This is interesting because they can double tap their 3 or 4 (if a command squad) plasma guns 18". Their threat range of nearly 28" may well allow for turn one double-tapping.

Alternatively, if the enemy has approached, you can use the "move" to increase the distance to them - staying just within 18" to rapid fire.

Meanwhile, the chimera is also able to move. It probably doesn't bother in turn one, so as to have no penalty to firing.

Turn two now arrives. You again move your infantry to 18" away from the target - or as far away as possible if you can't get that far. You move your chimera to meet them, staying behind the infantry. You fire, then embark - gaining more distance from the enemy.

I think that pretty often the order will be used to run out of a transport on turn one, then run back and jump in it again on turn two. The transport may not move in this time. But other times you might want to have the chimera (or taurox I guess) move sideways and have the infantry run to it.

You deploy wholly within 3" of a vehicle so the max movement from a vehicle would be 9" if your move characteristic is 6" but that doesn't take away from what you're saying, just thought I'd point that out as I've seen players try to get a bit of extra distance out of doing this.

aushlo wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Armageddon troops will get to rapid fire their lasguns, then get into their chimera and fire the lasguns array. That's a nice little bonus. It's too bad it specifies aramageddon vehicle or they'd be able to get into a Valkyrie.

Also true, good catch there! The rule benefits you primarily on turns 2 and on, as you're unlikely to be disembarked turn 1, but it helps keep the pressure on with lasguns, effectively allowing you to fire your lasguns twice in a turn. It gives you a slightly worse FRFSRF effect and gets your dudesmen out of harm's way. You can also hop into another ride nearby if yours is blown up or the second is vacant (likely because the guys from it are hot ash and red chunks). The Chimera you got into couldn't shoot until your guys get in. Pretty neat! MIndblowing, no. But neat!

Well if you take a 3" disembark, 1" base, 6" move and 18" rapid fire, you could very well disembark on turn 1.

I could see a case for having a taurox with two commanders and two command squads inside. Plasma all round. It's quite a bomb.

I'm really interested to see if it's possible to get a steel legion unit with hellguns too.

 Mantle wrote:

You deploy wholly within 3" of a vehicle so the max movement from a vehicle would be 9" if your move characteristic is 6" but that doesn't take away from what you're saying, just thought I'd point that out as I've seen players try to get a bit of extra distance out of doing this.

One of the FAQs explains that "wholly within" means different things for a model vs a unit. The unit disembarks "wholly within" 3", which means that every model in the unit must be "within" 3", which means that you can disembark with just a sliver of a model's base within 3". If an individual model had to be "wholly within" 3", then no part of its base could be more than 3" from the transport.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

You deploy wholly within 3" of a vehicle so the max movement from a vehicle would be 9" if your move characteristic is 6" but that doesn't take away from what you're saying, just thought I'd point that out as I've seen players try to get a bit of extra distance out of doing this.

One of the FAQs explains that "wholly within" means different things for a model vs a unit. The unit disembarks "wholly within" 3", which means that every model in the unit must be "within" 3", which means that you can disembark with just a sliver of a model's base within 3". If an individual model had to be "wholly within" 3", then no part of its base could be more than 3" from the transport.

The word "wholly" does not appear in the rules for disembarking. Instead it says that all of the models have to be within 3".

My understanding is that "within 3" means that one edge of the model's base must be no more than 3" from the vehicle it just got out of. That's what it means to be within 2" for unit coherency, or within 1" for cc. Otherwise anyone with a base bigger than an inch could never be in coherency!

This doesn't make an awful lot of difference for IG of course, with their 25mm bases. It makes a lot of difference to my assault centurions though!

Just saw an entry for Leman Russes in the new codex on youtube. Plasma Vents only allow 1 mortal wound per 1 roll on to hit! Plasma is back, baby!

Exterminator Autocannon is still the same. But at least it can fire twice due to the new rules.

They also went down to 10 power and I think they made them all just 1 choice, instead of demolishers vs russes.

And I just realized the Annihilator can fire 5 las cannon shots if you put one in the hull ... Take THAT Lazpred!

Mandragola wrote:
Ok so the steel legion order does indeed allow redeployment. This is because of something called "the movement please". I'm aware that guard players may not be aware of it, considering it an unwelcome distraction before the shooting phase, but it is relevant here.

Here's how it works. On turn one your veteran squad disembarks from the front of their chimera. They set up 3" plus the thickness of their base (just under 1") in front of the chimera. They are then allowed to "move" up to 6". In total they've traveled nearly 10" from their chimera.

This is interesting because they can double tap their 3 or 4 (if a command squad) plasma guns 18". Their threat range of nearly 28" may well allow for turn one double-tapping.

Alternatively, if the enemy has approached, you can use the "move" to increase the distance to them - staying just within 18" to rapid fire.

Meanwhile, the chimera is also able to move. It probably doesn't bother in turn one, so as to have no penalty to firing.

Turn two now arrives. You again move your infantry to 18" away from the target - or as far away as possible if you can't get that far. You move your chimera to meet them, staying behind the infantry. You fire, then embark - gaining more distance from the enemy.

I think that pretty often the order will be used to run out of a transport on turn one, then run back and jump in it again on turn two. The transport may not move in this time. But other times you might want to have the chimera (or taurox I guess) move sideways and have the infantry run to it.

"Movement please" aside, most of the movement you list could already be done. It's not like guard are looking to assault. An extra movement is not the same as redeploy, which is what this new rule claimed to do. No big deal, but let's not misrepresent the situation just to be a little snarky.

I didn't see any Cadian regiment rules on the community site; did I miss them or have them been previewed elsewhere?

 warboss wrote:
I didn't see any Cadian regiment rules on the community site; did I miss them or have them been previewed elsewhere?

Came up in one of the Twitch streams from what I've heard.

 warboss wrote:
I didn't see any Cadian regiment rules on the community site; did I miss them or have them been previewed elsewhere?

Free reroll 1's if you didn't move and reroll everything with take aim. But if you listen top Kanwalen he will tell you that's somehow bad Apparently being able to gain another orders benefit on top of the one already spammed is somehow mediocre lmao.

But seriously its really strong and in contention with catachan and valhalla for top spot, mostly dependent on build.

Idk, with most squads I use the reroll 1s to hit on, I'd rather juse use Harker and then reroll 1s to wound ... so my las cannons only miss on 2-3 and only fail to wound on a 2.

Woof! Super heavies got their main guns dramatically increased, about a 40 point reduction, no longer suffer penalties to hit when moving. Now I will have to finish building my baneblade I've had for months!