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EDIT: Before everyone stops in to correct me over and over, this has already been straightened out in the first reply.

... and honestly, why is this not something anyone talks about...

you can soup ANYTHING. I was just reading the rules for battleforged armies, and all the restrictions set out are within Detachments.

You can take one detachment of Astra Militarum, one of Tau and a third of Death Guard, and you're playing a COMPLETELY legal Battle Forged army.

I honestly can't even think of any reason why it's any worse than souping within say the Imperium either. All bonuses and auras are within the closed faction, so if you soup Astra Militarum and Space Marines, they have exactly as much keyword synergy between the detachments as if you were to soup Space Marines and Tyranids.

The fact that I've missed this is one thing. I made an assumption about what constitutes Battle-Forged, and it was apparently wrong. But how come everyone talks about "the Imperium soup" as being way too big, or having way too many options when literally nothing is stopping anyone from souping in whatever it is you're complaining that others can soup in?

Am I wrong? Did I miss something? Please tell me I did.

No for matched play. None of those share a common keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
No for matched play. None of those share a common keyword.

Ok, that's what I wanted to hear. Now where in the rulebook does it say they have to? Because page 240 just says "An army can include any number of Detachments and you can mix them together however you like."

Thanks for the image.

THANK THE GOD DAMN LIGHT THAT I WAS WRONG.

You can only "soup" Aeldari, Imperium and Chaos (but NOT with each other) in Matched play. All other Factions do not share a keyword with any other faction.

So the reason no one talks about it is that most people discuss Matched play, in which Imperials are the only faction that can REALLY soup it up. Aeldari only has 4 armies to soup and Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

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 Galef wrote:
Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

With how different DG units are from CSM units, that's far from a fair assessment.
DG are less like CSM than GK are like SM.

That said, I'm glad I was wrong, and there actually was a rule that stated matched play stops this.

 Galef wrote:
You can only "soup" Aeldari, Imperium and Chaos (but NOT with each other) in Matched play. All other Factions do not share a keyword with any other faction.

So the reason no one talks about it is that most people discuss Matched play, in which Imperials are the only faction that can REALLY soup it up. Aeldari only has 4 armies to soup and Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

-

Well and GSC/Nids/Guard can soup as well, though it is more limited.

Necrons
Orks
Tau

Are really the only factions that cannot soup in some way. However, Imperium covers 2 Indices and will cover about half of the codices in the game when all is said and done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Purifier wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

With how different DG units are from CSM units, that's far from a fair assessment.
DG are less like CSM than GK are like SM.

That said, I'm glad I was wrong, and there actually was a rule that stated matched play stops this.

Yup, from that assessment Imperium only has maybe 5 armies because BA/SW/DA/Deathwatch/GK are all Adeptus Astartes. So in that case Imperium is Adeptus astartes, Astra Millitarum, Admech, Sisters, all the other scattered imperial stuff.

He also forgot Knights for Chaos, which would make it 3 even in his example (and 6 in my imperial example)

I didn't forget about Knights for Chaos. I specifically do not consider them an entire faction unto themselves as it would be thematically as well as tactically inadvisable to have a whole army on just Knights. They are more like an add-on to CSM.
Clearly this is just my opinion, but I was quite deliberate in what I said.

"Soup" to me involves at least 3 DISTICTLY different, fully realised factions. Or in the case of Chaos, 2 factions that each have an extremely wide variety of units.

 Galef wrote:
I didn't forget about Knights for Chaos. I specifically do not consider them an entire faction unto themselves as it would be thematically as well as tactically inadvisable to have a whole army on just Knights. They are more like an add-on to CSM.
Clearly this is just my opinion, but I was quite deliberate in what I said.

"Soup" to me involves at least 3 DISTICTLY different, fully realised factions. Or in the case of Chaos, 2 factions that each have an extremely wide variety of units.

Wait why is it thematically inadvisable to have a whole army of Knights?

I have a whole army of Baneblades (essentially)...

Because 99.99999% of the instances that those kinds of units are described in the fluff, they are a part of a larger army including tons of infantry, tanks and other kinds of units

 Galef wrote:
Because 99.99999% of the instances that those kinds of units are described in the fluff, they are a part of a larger army including tons of infantry, tanks and other kinds of units

That's true... much like how a Space Marine army is also usually a part of a larger Imperial war effort.

Are Space Marines also not thematically inadvisable?

 Galef wrote:
Because 99.99999% of the instances that those kinds of units are described in the fluff, they are a part of a larger army including tons of infantry, tanks and other kinds of units

And yet you could play a single small part of that army group/battle where a lance of knights, given their speed, attack the flank of the enemy whereas the main assets, like baneblades and tanks and loads of infantry, assault the entrenched position from the front.

Same with marines. They operate not directly on the front line, but podded down/were deployed with assets behind the enemy frontlines and attack the enemy from the rear, while the guard provide the distraction.

 Galef wrote:
I didn't forget about Knights for Chaos. I specifically do not consider them an entire faction unto themselves as it would be thematically as well as tactically inadvisable to have a whole army on just Knights. They are more like an add-on to CSM.
Clearly this is just my opinion, but I was quite deliberate in what I said.

"Soup" to me involves at least 3 DISTICTLY different, fully realised factions. Or in the case of Chaos, 2 factions that each have an extremely wide variety of units.

Then by your definition no one plays soup in this edition because I have seen very few lists comprised of 3 different factions. Especially if you include "fully realized factions" as part of it. Most is some flavor of Marines/sisters + IG + maybe not fully realized faction (by your definition).

Soup as currently used describes armies comprised of optimal choices taken from more than a single faction. It usually describes Chaos or Imperium, as Aeldari soup is generally called Ynnari, and GSC soup is just called GSC. But it is important to note that there are only 3 factions that have no "ally" options available to them to create a soup army.

Technically you can still do Eldar Soup since Ynnari doesn't include Haemonculous units right? However that's a very weird "soup".

Also all this talk has made me hungry and it's still 2 hours till lunch.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Technically you can still do Eldar Soup since Ynnari doesn't include Haemonculous units right? However that's a very weird "soup".

Also all this talk has made me hungry and it's still 2 hours till lunch.

Well sure you can do eldar soup. It is just that most people that do just run Ynnari. There is nothing that prevents you from running Craftworld + DE + Harlequins for example.

 Galef wrote:
You can only "soup" Aeldari, Imperium and Chaos (but NOT with each other) in Matched play. All other Factions do not share a keyword with any other faction.

So the reason no one talks about it is that most people discuss Matched play, in which Imperials are the only faction that can REALLY soup it up. Aeldari only has 4 armies to soup and Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

-

Imperials have: Space Marines, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Mechanicus [5]
Chaos has: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Renegades [3]
Eldar has: Craftwords, Harlequins, Dark Eldar [3]
Tyranids has: Tyranids, Genestealers, Imperial Guard [3]

The difference isn't really that drastic, because while it does seem like the Imperial have a lot of factions, most of them are functionally identical. You're not getting a whole lot out of being an alliance of the BA, SW, and DA. I actually think Tyranids have the best "soup", because they can have Hive Fleet Trygons and Hormagaunts, Cult Genestealers, and Imperial Guard Manticores in one list.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Galef wrote:
You can only "soup" Aeldari, Imperium and Chaos (but NOT with each other) in Matched play. All other Factions do not share a keyword with any other faction.

So the reason no one talks about it is that most people discuss Matched play, in which Imperials are the only faction that can REALLY soup it up. Aeldari only has 4 armies to soup and Chaos only has 2 (because Death Guard and T-sons are still just Heretic Astartes)

-

Imperials have: Space Marines, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Adeptus Mechanicus [5]
Chaos has: Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Renegades [3]
Eldar has: Craftwords, Harlequins, Dark Eldar [3]
Tyranids has: Tyranids, Genestealers, Imperial Guard [3]

The difference isn't really that drastic, because while it does seem like the Imperial have a lot of factions, most of them are functionally identical. You're not getting a whole lot out of being an alliance of the BA, SW, and DA. I actually think Tyranids have the best "soup", because they can have Hive Fleet Trygons and Hormagaunts, Cult Genestealers, and Imperial Guard Manticores in one list.

Mission accomplished.
Sad thing is that I like Inquisition for the 'soupiness' that one could muster under an Inquisitor.
Now, difficult to fathom how special Inquisition might end up in the end with anyone and their cousin coupling under whatever specious auspices the listbuilder dreams up for the wins.

Breng77 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Technically you can still do Eldar Soup since Ynnari doesn't include Haemonculous units right? However that's a very weird "soup".

Also all this talk has made me hungry and it's still 2 hours till lunch.

Well sure you can do eldar soup. It is just that most people that do just run Ynnari. There is nothing that prevents you from running Craftworld + DE + Harlequins for example.

And even from a fluff perspective, there's plenty of reason to run DE+Quins or CW+Quins, without Ynnari, since the Harlequins are always welcomed wherever they go in Eldar society. Actually, even CW+DE+Quins could make sense, if you assume the Quins are keeping them from backbiting too much. DE+CW without a Ynnari is probably a bit more of an "ehhhhhhh", fluffwise.

Imagine if they gave Tau and Orks the ability to soup.