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Everyone remembers the widely derided picture of a Primaris marine dismissed as a conversion.

But just take a minute to imagine what would have happened if Roundtree had leapt out of an unmarked van at a random 40k fan, sat them down, and told them exactly every detail of the Primaris release and accompanying fluff for them to leak on the internet afterwards.

1) there will be a plastic truescale marine release, but they'll be released as a separate unit from regular marines and the regular marine line will be kept around including all the kits that the new models would be replacing.

2) The tactical marines will be called Primaris Intercessors, they have no special weapons but they have their choice of three SUPER BOLTGUNS the whole squad can take

3) The Scouts will be wearing power armor but with BADASS call of duty skull face masks, the kit will come with a 4" long plastic grappling hook as a squad upgrade.

4) Their transport will be like a land speeder but the size of a land raider and it'll have an assault cannon, twin linked lascannon, heavy bolter, AND missile launcher on it.

5) The truescale marines will even come with a kit for a TRUESCALE DREADNOUGHT! It'll have the same guns as a regular dreadnought but it'll be bigger.

6) The truescale assault marines will have giant rocket packs and they'll dual-wield heavy bolters like a pair of SWEET GIANT UZIS.

7) Don't worry if you like existing Space Marine characters - Robute Guilliman is so super smart he's come up with a special Primaris-izing shot he can use to make all the named characters bigger and awesomer!

I think past this point I can no longer dismiss any sourceless rumor as a wishlisting fanboy.

Do we now live in a post-truth rumor mill society? Can we no longer dismiss anything as probably fake? Discuss.

Well.... wow. I think you have a point.

Especially 3, 4.

Concerning 7, I think the moment smaller marines are OOP, GW will retcon the Primaris (that will be the new "normal", possibly introducing 2W for all the marine range) and this will be for once a retcon I can accept well.

He should have actually done that. Then the rumor mill would be dead for good since we can never take anything as fact or fiction EVAR.

OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

Agreed. Feels like GWs trying to 1 up the already absurd marines with more marine marines. Can we stop doing "marines but better!"

Seriously,

I wish they had just re-done the line in true scale. I enjoy the new proportions of the primaris. But thats about it.

All this new stuff can go to hell

1. OP, take an Exalt!

2. Yeah, this is seriously why I mostly despise the new fluff. Rowboat waking up I was on board for, but the NuMarines are pushing it. That said I plan on picking up some Hellblasters and Intersseors or what ever they are on the cheap via ebay just due to the fact that they are pretty solid.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Seriously,

I wish they had just re-done the line in true scale. I enjoy the new proportions of the primaris. But thats about it.

All this new stuff can go to hell

A bit of column a and a bit of column b. I like that they're more 'elite' than 'old' marines - marines should be elite. Not unstoppable, but definitely elite. -1 AP boltguns in an age where the standard weapon is AP 0? 2 wounds standard? Human-looking proportions, that at the same time don't look like they're trying not to dump out the curry they had for lunch yesterday?

But at the same time, what?! Hellblasters with no ablative wounds? Tactical squads with no tactical options besides a grenade launcher? Are gravis dudes supposed to be terminator dude equivalents?

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I wish they had just re-done the line in true scale.

Needs repeating.

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I wish they had just re-done the line in true scale.

Needs repeating.

How would this have been possible? There is absolutely no way they could have replaced the entire Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine line, including every special flavour, in one go. It would have dragged on for years. Meanwhile no one would be buying the old kits or even worse, GW just stops producing them.
What about Forgeworld? Continue with the old scale or also make new ones, equally overhauling the entire range, including everything from the HH?

The only way forward to True-Scale was exactly what they did.
I highly doubt we will see new old-scale Marine kits ever again.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I wish they had just re-done the line in true scale.

Needs repeating.

How would this have been possible? There is absolutely no way they could have replaced the entire Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine line, including every special flavour, in one go. It would have dragged on for years. Meanwhile no one would be buying the old kits or even worse, GW just stops producing them.
What about Forgeworld? Continue with the old scale or also make new ones, equally overhauling the entire range, including everything from the HH?

The only way forward to True-Scale was exactly what they did.
I highly doubt we will see new old-scale Marine kits ever again.

Well, i don't think they're doing the primaris range in one go. I'm quite sure we'll see more as time goes on. Yes, it will drag on for years. But like with all the scale changes they've done in the past, there would be an end to it eventually. No-one buying old kits, or gw stops producing them? That's the speculation at the moment - a fair number of people (myself included) think that there's going to come a time when there are 'only' primaris marines.

What about forgeworld? Hedge your bets and see where the money flows, that way lies the answer. Scale creep isn't new.

For the record GW has upsized marines twice before (RT to 2nd (though it really started in late RT days)) and then 2nd to 3rd.

Yes it took a long time to replace everything, yes for a long while you had old rhinos next to twice-upsized marines, but they did it.

I too would have preferred that the Primaris just be a new armor mark with no special rules. I think people would have flocked to them for quality.

Are people buying Secondis Marines these days?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Concerning 7, I think the moment smaller marines are OOP, GW will retcon the Primaris (that will be the new "normal", possibly introducing 2W for all the marine range) and this will be for once a retcon I can accept well.

I don't think it will happen. I think the badness is here to stay, long time!

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

They're not really for you. Or anyone who is an existing fan of 40k. The Primaris Marines well and truly feel like they're aimed specifically at bringing in little timmy and they're designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass, in a similar vein as the ridiculous Stormcasts.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

They're not really for you. Or anyone who is an existing fan of 40k. The Primaris Marines well and truly feel like they're aimed specifically at bringing in little timmy and they're designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass, in a similar vein as the ridiculous Stormcasts.

Well..... I like that they're truescale? But re-reading your OP, yeah i'm not quite ready to change my name or go back to grade school just yet.

edit: and it won't just be an assault cannon..... It'll be an ONSLAUGHT GATLING CANNON!!!!!! which is exactly the same thing......

the_scotsman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

They're not really for you. Or anyone who is an existing fan of 40k. The Primaris Marines well and truly feel like they're aimed specifically at bringing in little timmy and they're designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass, in a similar vein as the ridiculous Stormcasts.

Normal marines are designed specifically to bring the little timmy. And they where designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass.

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

They're not really for you. Or anyone who is an existing fan of 40k. The Primaris Marines well and truly feel like they're aimed specifically at bringing in little timmy and they're designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass, in a similar vein as the ridiculous Stormcasts.

Normal marines are designed specifically to bring the little timmy. And they where designed around what a 12 year old thinks of as badass.

If i took that literally, it would go a fair way to explaining their posture.

I like them and I think that that the fluff around them makes sense, it allows for a seamless introduction of the new line whilst not affecting what has gone before. A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

 Hollow wrote:
I like them and I think that that the fluff around them makes sense, it allows for a seamless introduction of the new line whilst not affecting what has gone before. A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

Personally, I'm ok with some change. I just think their scale looks crazy next to other models.

 Hollow wrote:
.....A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

Nothing wrong with that.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
For the record GW has upsized marines twice before (RT to 2nd (though it really started in late RT days)) and then 2nd to 3rd.

Yes it took a long time to replace everything, yes for a long while you had old rhinos next to twice-upsized marines, but they did it.

I too would have preferred that the Primaris just be a new armor mark with no special rules. I think people would have flocked to them for quality.

Are people buying Secondis Marines these days?

I have a buddy who is trying to build a new army from old scale weenies.
He wants a full chapter.
I applaud him.
Sent him a few of my own old models that I was never gonna get to, hope he can use them well.
As far as i know he has zero interest in numarines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I like them and I think that that the fluff around them makes sense, it allows for a seamless introduction of the new line whilst not affecting what has gone before. A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

Personally, I'm ok with some change. I just think their scale looks crazy next to other models.

Ever stand next to a pro basketball or football player?
I figure some guys are taller and beefier than others.
Just mix them up, put beaks on the new armor to make them look less like noiseless Autobots, and call em legit.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
OP does a fine job of illustrating why I'm not interested in them.

Agreed. Feels like GWs trying to 1 up the already absurd marines with more marine marines. Can we stop doing "marines but better!"

Ugh, that's solo last year. It's "The Mariniest" now.

“They don’t look right next to my old stuff”. While true, every army in the game has suffered or does suffer from that to some extent. At least the pauldrons on these new ones look less ridiculous lol. That said, I didn’t realize when getting back into the hobby that new marines were coming out, I thought all marines were just going to have 2W to represent how badass they are meant to be.

It’s ironic that some people don’t see the humour in complain about stuff that’s redesigned to appeal more to children, while singing the praises of things that were designed to appeal to them when they were kids. Nostalgia is powerful. 5 years from now Primaris will be Normalis marines and the current line will be just like every other lineup left behind; squatted. Maybe we’ll get a new Rhino that fits the new generation of marine. Preferably with tracks lol.

 jeff white wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
For the record GW has upsized marines twice before (RT to 2nd (though it really started in late RT days)) and then 2nd to 3rd.

Yes it took a long time to replace everything, yes for a long while you had old rhinos next to twice-upsized marines, but they did it.

I too would have preferred that the Primaris just be a new armor mark with no special rules. I think people would have flocked to them for quality.

Are people buying Secondis Marines these days?

I have a buddy who is trying to build a new army from old scale weenies.
He wants a full chapter.
I applaud him.
Sent him a few of my own old models that I was never gonna get to, hope he can use them well.
As far as i know he has zero interest in numarines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I like them and I think that that the fluff around them makes sense, it allows for a seamless introduction of the new line whilst not affecting what has gone before. A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

Personally, I'm ok with some change. I just think their scale looks crazy next to other models.

Ever stand next to a pro basketball or football player?
I figure some guys are taller and beefier than others.
Just mix them up, put beaks on the new armor to make them look less like noiseless Autobots, and call em legit.

Or just not buy them. I'll continue to purchase ye olde Tactical box because it matches everything I already have. Its not just the size difference, but the proportional difference as well. Not that it's bad, it just wouldnt match even if they were not so giant. Also, its cheaper.

Minor note, I'd argue that there was bareley a size difference between 2nd and 3rd ed marines, and differences in size was mostly due more to a new consistency that worked its way into 2nd edition as they made more Space Marines for the new codexes. They all had the same proportions and scale with a small enough margin of error to make it negligible, imo.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


I too would have preferred that the Primaris just be a new armor mark with no special rules. I think people would have flocked to them for quality.

Are people buying Secondis Marines these days?

I buy them myself. Primaris Marines aren't that much nicer than regular tactical marines, in my opinion, and their kits lack the amount of options/cutomizability the older marine kits have. Plus, their HQ characters are very overpriced.

The one great thing about Primaris marines is that the standard power armor models make awesome true-scale marines. I think it'd be great fun to use them in 28mm Inquisitor-styled games. I for one still plan on getting maybe the power sword Lieutenant and a couple Intercessors, and counting a Hellblaster as a standard plasma gun so I can use them as a true-scale combat squad.

I actually have far less problems with the scale of the Primaris models than I do with all the Death Guard being afflicted with gigantism, even with the lame 'swollen with chaos' excuse. It's like GW are trying to make 40k a 35mm game now.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Spoiler:

 jeff white wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
For the record GW has upsized marines twice before (RT to 2nd (though it really started in late RT days)) and then 2nd to 3rd.

Yes it took a long time to replace everything, yes for a long while you had old rhinos next to twice-upsized marines, but they did it.

I too would have preferred that the Primaris just be a new armor mark with no special rules. I think people would have flocked to them for quality.

Are people buying Secondis Marines these days?

I have a buddy who is trying to build a new army from old scale weenies.
He wants a full chapter.
I applaud him.
Sent him a few of my own old models that I was never gonna get to, hope he can use them well.
As far as i know he has zero interest in numarines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I like them and I think that that the fluff around them makes sense, it allows for a seamless introduction of the new line whilst not affecting what has gone before. A lot of the complaints I've seen about them just seem to be about people not liking change of any kind.

Personally, I'm ok with some change. I just think their scale looks crazy next to other models.

Ever stand next to a pro basketball or football player?
I figure some guys are taller and beefier than others.
Just mix them up, put beaks on the new armor to make them look less like noiseless Autobots, and call em legit.

Or just not buy them. I'll continue to purchase ye olde Tactical box because it matches everything I already have. Its not just the size difference, but the proportional difference as well. Not that it's bad, it just wouldnt match even if they were not so giant. Also, its cheaper.

Minor note, I'd argue that there was bareley a size difference between 2nd and 3rd ed marines, and differences in size was mostly due more to a new consistency that worked its way into 2nd edition as they made more Space Marines for the new codexes. They all had the same proportions and scale with a small enough margin of error to make it negligible, imo.

Agreed. I still have some original metal marines and they look fine.I have an old metal chaplain that is, well, small and ugly but he really always was...

 Insectum7 wrote:

Or just not buy them. I'll continue to purchase ye olde Tactical box because it matches everything I already have. Its not just the size difference, but the proportional difference as well. Not that it's bad, it just wouldnt match even if they were not so giant. Also, its cheaper.

For me is more the style, too clean compared to stuff like the black templars. But if (IF) I am right I think we will see more variation. Also the big plagues are an vidnce toward the fact that there will be no distinction in the future. Another evidence is the possibility to "primarize" old character, Bile researching etc .

The new plagues are in their essence fine; actually pretty good and diverse, but too many elongated detail clutter them and need trimming, enough to have less noise and a more coherent unit. They did not stop soon enough with those tentacles, once delegated to options now forced into the model by the new, less customisable paradigm. Painting must be chosen accordingly of course. One can argue why pay premium price for this but oh well...