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It depends a lot on your own species, as the Imperium only cares about (non-mutated) humans, the Eldar about Eldar etc.

I think a good test is to see what would happen to you if you were some non-threatening Xenos (but not from one of the main species), on a planet somewhere.
- CWE and Harlequins will mostly leave you alone. There's always a chance they will use you as a speed bump if an Ork waagh or Tyranid hive fleets is headed towards an Eldar world, but they won't go out of their way to do anything special to you if they don't benefit directly from it. Harlequins might even come and save you if there's a deamonic incursion going on.
- Dark Eldar will want to enslave and torture you
- The Imperium as a whole sees you as unworthy of inhabiting the galaxy, and will slaughter you if it's not too difficult for them (especially if your planet has nice resources)
- The Tyranid just want to eat you
- The Orks to beat you to death
- The Tau empire will want to assimilate you in their ranks. You'll have a choice between fighting them or surrendering. So you can survive as long as you give up on your freedom and start fighting for the greater good (obviously the Tau decides what the greater good is).
- Chaos will usually be bad news. It depends on who you're facing, but there's usually a lot of slaughter/diseases/torture going on. Some factions will accept you if you start worshiping chaos.

So overall I would say CWE and Harlequins. Not because they like you (everyone who isn't Eldar is just some stupid monkey to them), but because for the most part they don't care about you, the same way we don't really care about all the critters in the forest far away from our home.

Harlequins...
With easily Dark Eldar cruelty level punks like Death Jesters the goodness of Troops is pretty easy to argue against.

fresus wrote:
It depends a lot on your own species, as the Imperium only cares about (non-mutated) humans, the Eldar about Eldar etc.

I think a good test is to see what would happen to you if you were some non-threatening Xenos (but not from one of the main species), on a planet somewhere.
- CWE and Harlequins will mostly leave you alone. There's always a chance they will use you as a speed bump if an Ork waagh or Tyranid hive fleets is headed towards an Eldar world, but they won't go out of their way to do anything special to you if they don't benefit directly from it. Harlequins might even come and save you if there's a deamonic incursion going on.
- Dark Eldar will want to enslave and torture you
- The Imperium as a whole sees you as unworthy of inhabiting the galaxy, and will slaughter you if it's not too difficult for them (especially if your planet has nice resources)
- The Tyranid just want to eat you
- The Orks to beat you to death
- The Tau empire will want to assimilate you in their ranks. You'll have a choice between fighting them or surrendering. So you can survive as long as you give up on your freedom and start fighting for the greater good (obviously the Tau decides what the greater good is).
- Chaos will usually be bad news. It depends on who you're facing, but there's usually a lot of slaughter/diseases/torture going on. Some factions will accept you if you start worshiping chaos.

So overall I would say CWE and Harlequins. Not because they like you (everyone who isn't Eldar is just some stupid monkey to them), but because for the most part they don't care about you, the same way we don't really care about all the critters in the forest far away from our home.

Be careful not to equate 'won't pull the trigger themselves' with 'won't go out of their way to harm you' when you're thinking about the Eldar. Just because they don't come down and krump your heads personally, doesn't mean that they're not subtly and purposefully manipulating fate to ensure that your species gets genocided so a half-dozen eldar survive.

They're the white-collar criminals of the 40k universe.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

Until Fenris got attacked then Grimnar allowed the inquisition to go around slaughtering his people

Craftworld Eldar just want to fix their past mistakes, which is kind of nice, but don't hesitate to kill anyone or anything to get their way and are also just struggling to survive rather than focusing on long-term goals. Honestly the new kids on the block, the Ynnari, might just be the least terrible. They're trying to make the galaxy a livable place for everyone, and have shown willingness to cooperate with others and include Eldar from all groups.

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

Until Fenris got attacked then Grimnar allowed the inquisition to go around slaughtering his people

Yeah, I still wish there was more writing on Grimnar's thoughts on that matter, I thought he'd just given up but the very next thing he did was command all Space Wolf Forces to Cadia.
It's possible that because the Fenrisians are nomadic and scattered, not just across the planet but in the Space Wolves' fleets and Fenris alone is a pretty rugged place so Grimnar expected it to be too hard for the Grey Knights to hunt them all down.
It's also possible that Grimnar knew there were a grand total of eight hundred Space Wolves left and they had zero chance against the Grey Knights since the Grey Knights had already made planetfall which meant they were already past Fenris' best defenses, the Dark Angels were also in the mix and they could be ordered into helping the Grey Knights destroy Fenris completely so letting the Grey Knights fail to kill all Fenrisians could have been the best way of saving more Fenrisians than encouraging a battle that probably would have resulted in the destruction of the entire planet, the Dark Angels might not hit the wrong planet a second time.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

Until Fenris got attacked then Grimnar allowed the inquisition to go around slaughtering his people

Yeah, I still wish there was more writing on Grimnar's thoughts on that matter, I thought he'd just given up but the very next thing he did was command all Space Wolf Forces to Cadia.
It's possible that because the Fenrisians are nomadic and scattered, not just across the planet but in the Space Wolves' fleets and Fenris alone is a pretty rugged place so Grimnar expected it to be too hard for the Grey Knights to hunt them all down.
It's also possible that Grimnar knew there were a grand total of eight hundred Space Wolves left and they had zero chance against the Grey Knights since the Grey Knights had already made planetfall which meant they were already past Fenris' best defenses, the Dark Angels were also in the mix and they could be ordered into helping the Grey Knights destroy Fenris completely so letting the Grey Knights fail to kill all Fenrisians could have been the best way of saving more Fenrisians than encouraging a battle that probably would have resulted in the destruction of the entire planet, the Dark Angels might not hit the wrong planet a second time.

Where are you getting 800 remaining Space Wolves from?

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

Until Fenris got attacked then Grimnar allowed the inquisition to go around slaughtering his people

Yeah, I still wish there was more writing on Grimnar's thoughts on that matter, I thought he'd just given up but the very next thing he did was command all Space Wolf Forces to Cadia.
It's possible that because the Fenrisians are nomadic and scattered, not just across the planet but in the Space Wolves' fleets and Fenris alone is a pretty rugged place so Grimnar expected it to be too hard for the Grey Knights to hunt them all down.
It's also possible that Grimnar knew there were a grand total of eight hundred Space Wolves left and they had zero chance against the Grey Knights since the Grey Knights had already made planetfall which meant they were already past Fenris' best defenses, the Dark Angels were also in the mix and they could be ordered into helping the Grey Knights destroy Fenris completely so letting the Grey Knights fail to kill all Fenrisians could have been the best way of saving more Fenrisians than encouraging a battle that probably would have resulted in the destruction of the entire planet, the Dark Angels might not hit the wrong planet a second time.

Where are you getting 800 remaining Space Wolves from?

Wrong info - my bad.
Eight hundred is my guesstimate for the Space Wolves' numbers after Cadia and before they got their Primaris boost.
At the end of the Warzone Fenris the Drakeslayers, Krakenslayers, Firehowlers and Redmaws are mentioned as being outside the system so I'd put the Wolves at about thirteen hundred in the Fenris system before you include the Wulfen, Wolf Priests and Dreadnoughts into the mix.
Probably fourteen hundred all up, that's not considering casualties from the absolute hell they just went through.
They were dealing with the Grey Knights, numbers unstated and The Rock.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ravingbantha wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

Until Fenris got attacked then Grimnar allowed the inquisition to go around slaughtering his people

Yeah, I still wish there was more writing on Grimnar's thoughts on that matter, I thought he'd just given up but the very next thing he did was command all Space Wolf Forces to Cadia.
It's possible that because the Fenrisians are nomadic and scattered, not just across the planet but in the Space Wolves' fleets and Fenris alone is a pretty rugged place so Grimnar expected it to be too hard for the Grey Knights to hunt them all down.
It's also possible that Grimnar knew there were a grand total of eight hundred Space Wolves left and they had zero chance against the Grey Knights since the Grey Knights had already made planetfall which meant they were already past Fenris' best defenses, the Dark Angels were also in the mix and they could be ordered into helping the Grey Knights destroy Fenris completely so letting the Grey Knights fail to kill all Fenrisians could have been the best way of saving more Fenrisians than encouraging a battle that probably would have resulted in the destruction of the entire planet, the Dark Angels might not hit the wrong planet a second time.

Where are you getting 800 remaining Space Wolves from?

Wrong info - my bad.
Eight hundred is my guesstimate for the Space Wolves' numbers after Cadia and before they got their Primaris boost.
At the end of the Warzone Fenris the Drakeslayers, Krakenslayers, Firehowlers and Redmaws are mentioned as being outside the system so I'd put the Wolves at about thirteen hundred in the Fenris system before you include the Wulfen, Wolf Priests and Dreadnoughts into the mix.
Probably fourteen hundred all up, that's not considering casualties from the absolute hell they just went through.
They were dealing with the Grey Knights, numbers unstated and The Rock.

I don't think there were too many Grey Knight left either. And while the Space Wolves were at a greatly reduced number, it still bothers me how casually Grimnar was about letting his people get slaughtered. It just seemed out of character for him to go rushing off to Cadia and leave his home in the hands of foreigners, especially ones known to be absolutely brutal to a population

The thing i've always got from the SW fluff isn't that they give two hoots about what happens to civilians. They don't care, that's the Salamanders.

They do, however, care about warriors who have proven themselves valourous in battle. That was the motivation i got for why they fought against the Inquisition when they wanted to wipe out the population of Armageddon.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
The thing i've always got from the SW fluff isn't that they give two hoots about what happens to civilians. They don't care, that's the Salamanders.

They do, however, care about warriors who have proven themselves valourous in battle. That was the motivation i got for why they fought against the Inquisition when they wanted to wipe out the population of Armageddon.

Seems fair to me - they do everything they can to save people who try to survive and ignore people who demand to be saved rather than trying to save themselves.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
The thing i've always got from the SW fluff isn't that they give two hoots about what happens to civilians. They don't care, that's the Salamanders.

They do, however, care about warriors who have proven themselves valourous in battle. That was the motivation i got for why they fought against the Inquisition when they wanted to wipe out the population of Armageddon.

It's not so much that they really care about the civilians, but more of an issue of 'it's there territory'. Much like a wolf doesn't care about the rabbits in it's territory, but another wolf comes in for some hunting and crap will go down. They Grey Knights hunting Fenrisians is like pissing in Grimnar's cereal and him not caring.

OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
Yes I know it's not a word shush.

So this is a topic I discuss with a local shop keeper from time to time, "who could technically be considered the good guys of the universe in 40k?"
I mean its an interesting question? to the uneducated whom know nothing of the lore they would probably say "Speic Murines!!" Because they are the guys in the shiny blue armour and look like knights? But then you learn about the backgrounds to most chapters, and for the most part they all have some pretty rough defects to them. Blood Angels being blood-a-holics whom have a small chance of going berserk, Space Wolves are literally one step away from being human wolves, so on and so forth.
But then you look at the rest of the imperium thinking there has to be some objectively good factions? Inquisition maybe? (If any of you laughed at that, good, that was the purpose) Imperial Guard? Sisters of Battle? None of them stray too far from "Duty bound morally neutral" Aside from the Inquisition which have deeds that range from evil to comically evil.

So we look out to the stars and look at the other races? Chaos is kind of out of the riding since well, Khorne is an army populated by sociopath's, Nurgle is just plain gross (Though I would argue probably the closest to a good alignment of all of them) Slaanesh is just icky, Tzeentch is just plain indecisive, maybe, possibly, it might just be a trick that has us all thinking they are but probably not, then you got Malal, but well, he doesn't exist and we should stop talking about him now.

So for Xenos, every single one of them seems to have flaws to a certain degree, but the one that comes to mind is well, T'au
T'au seem to be the only species in the universe that isn't all about killing things on sight, stealing souls, purging, or capturing to take back to some form of rape pit.
Sure they do some horrible things and may or may not be space communists but in comparison to everyone else they seem pretty friendly to be around (Forceful sterilization of humans in their colonies not withstanding)

So the question is simple?
What do you think of this theory? My knowledge of the lore is a bit weak at best, but the T'au seem to be the most peaceful of the groups.
Perhaps you a discussion on the fact that there is no objective view of good, and it's just a made up concept to make us feel like we are doing the right thing? (Exceptionally pretentious)
Perhaps the true lawful good of the universe was the Vespids? They didn't really harm much.
What are all your guys and gals opinions on the topic of morality in 40k?

It's da Orkz, ya git.


The Orks are probably the most honest and straightforward race in 40k. In a galaxy of lies and deceit, they are somewhat refreshing. Until they krump you over da 'ead with a choppa.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
The thing i've always got from the SW fluff isn't that they give two hoots about what happens to civilians. They don't care, that's the Salamanders.

They do, however, care about warriors who have proven themselves valourous in battle. That was the motivation i got for why they fought against the Inquisition when they wanted to wipe out the population of Armageddon.

Seems fair to me - they do everything they can to save people who try to survive and ignore people who demand to be saved rather than trying to save themselves.

Yeah that's a good way of putting it you have to earn your right to be saved.

Ravingbantha wrote:


It's not so much that they really care about the civilians, but more of an issue of 'it's there territory'. Much like a wolf doesn't care about the rabbits in it's territory, but another wolf comes in for some hunting and crap will go down. They Grey Knights hunting Fenrisians is like pissing in Grimnar's cereal and him not caring.

Hmmm, I can see the territory thing. I can also see that Fenrisians are the only folk who can actually be turned into Space Wolves by now (barring Primaris, as if they needed to be any more Mary Sue).

Perhaps he reasoned that if they fought the Grey Knights here all of the Space Wolves would be wiped out, and given the size of populations on Imperial vessels there should be enough Fenrisian voidborn stock to keep the Wolves rolling. A rare moment of pragmatism maybe...

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

It's da Orkz, ya git.

The Orks are probably the most honest and straightforward race in 40k. In a galaxy of lies and deceit, they are somewhat refreshing. Until they krump you over da 'ead with a choppa.

Even during the aforementioned 'ead krumpin' they're still refreshingly honest. There's no malice, no twisted schemes. Just a simple 'orks was made for fightin' drive...

I hate this question. It comes up every few years and the debate doesn't reveal anything new.

"Who are the good guys?" or "Who is the goodest?" - these questions imply good is some universal truth, or that it would be answered the same way by different species. But what's good for an Ork is not what's good for a Space Marine - one thinks red vehicles are good because they go faster, one thinks the Emperor is good because He is the Truth and Hail Imperium.

But then there's the question of whether any Imperial citizen would even agree with what a Space Marine thinks is good. Let's say, for a moment, an Imperial citizen treats religion from a secular viewpoint, and is really more interested in the day-to-day of his life. He may find himself at odds with the Imperial creed in many ways, especially if it means he is consigned to a life of poverty and constant warfare. He may come to resent the Imperium itself, and good - for this Imperial citizen - might be defined as "Whoever buys my stuff," which could include Tau, Eldar, etc.

There is one character who brought the most good into the universe, defined relative to each faction in the game.

It's Horus Lupercal.

- The Chaos Space Marines got opportunity to worship their dark Gods and pursue power thanks to Horus. They would not have existed were it not for him.

- The Space Marines / IG got the Imperial Cult as a result of the Heresy. The IC officially is "good" and defines concepts of right and wrong for them. It would not exist without Horus.

- Orks got constant, endless war as a result of Horus's actions, which is their "good." Were it not for him, the Imperium would have remained a scientific powerhouse and 10,000 years of mpire building / scientific advancement surely would have meant their end.

- The Eldar / Dark Eldar got safety in their webway gates as a result of Horus' actions, which can be considered one the greatest "good" for them. Fluff has it the Emperor was working on his own webway gates at the start of the Heresy, which would have meant the opportunity for conquest from within their own cities. It could be argued Horus saved them from that fate.

- The Tau got the opportunity to expand into Imperial territories as a result of Horus. A united Imperium would not have tolerated them at all. It was only because he was able to keep the Imperium on the defensive for centuries that they have been overlooked.

- Tyranids got nothing. They are a hive mind and concepts of "good" are meaningless. It's about what can and cannot be consumed, and nothing Horus or the Imperium could do affects that one way or the other.

So much "good" came about as the result of the actions of one Primarch. No one else has had this kind of impact on concepts of good and evil within the 40k universe, not even the Emperor or the Dark Gods themselves.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I hate this question. It comes up every few years and the debate doesn't reveal anything new.

"Who are the good guys?" or "Who is the goodest?" - these questions imply good is some universal truth, or that it would be answered the same way by different species. But what's good for an Ork is not what's good for a Space Marine - one thinks red vehicles are good because they go faster, one thinks the Emperor is good because He is the Truth and Hail Imperium.

But then there's the question of whether any Imperial citizen would even agree with what a Space Marine thinks is good. Let's say, for a moment, an Imperial citizen treats religion from a secular viewpoint, and is really more interested in the day-to-day of his life. He may find himself at odds with the Imperial creed in many ways, especially if it means he is consigned to a life of poverty and constant warfare. He may come to resent the Imperium itself, and good - for this Imperial citizen - might be defined as "Whoever buys my stuff," which could include Tau, Eldar, etc.

There is one character who brought the most good into the universe, defined relative to each faction in the game.

It's Horus Lupercal.

- The Chaos Space Marines got opportunity to worship their dark Gods and pursue power thanks to Horus. They would not have existed were it not for him.

- The Space Marines / IG got the Imperial Cult as a result of the Heresy. The IC officially is "good" and defines concepts of right and wrong for them. It would not exist without Horus.

- Orks got constant, endless war as a result of Horus's actions, which is their "good." Were it not for him, the Imperium would have remained a scientific powerhouse and 10,000 years of mpire building / scientific advancement surely would have meant their end.

- The Eldar / Dark Eldar got safety in their webway gates as a result of Horus' actions, which can be considered one the greatest "good" for them. Fluff has it the Emperor was working on his own webway gates at the start of the Heresy, which would have meant the opportunity for conquest from within their own cities. It could be argued Horus saved them from that fate.

- The Tau got the opportunity to expand into Imperial territories as a result of Horus. A united Imperium would not have tolerated them at all. It was only because he was able to keep the Imperium on the defensive for centuries that they have been overlooked.

- Tyranids got nothing. They are a hive mind and concepts of "good" are meaningless. It's about what can and cannot be consumed, and nothing Horus or the Imperium could do affects that one way or the other.

So much "good" came about as the result of the actions of one Primarch. No one else has had this kind of impact on concepts of good and evil within the 40k universe, not even the Emperor or the Dark Gods themselves.

...man's got a point.

Considering that it was the Chaos Gods that were behind Horus' actions, the only people who are actually working for the utilitarian ideal of the greatest good for the greatest number of people (irrespective of creed or race) appear to be the Ruinous Powers...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
I hate this question. It comes up every few years and the debate doesn't reveal anything new.

"Who are the good guys?" or "Who is the goodest?" - these questions imply good is some universal truth, or that it would be answered the same way by different species. But what's good for an Ork is not what's good for a Space Marine - one thinks red vehicles are good because they go faster, one thinks the Emperor is good because He is the Truth and Hail Imperium.

But then there's the question of whether any Imperial citizen would even agree with what a Space Marine thinks is good. Let's say, for a moment, an Imperial citizen treats religion from a secular viewpoint, and is really more interested in the day-to-day of his life. He may find himself at odds with the Imperial creed in many ways, especially if it means he is consigned to a life of poverty and constant warfare. He may come to resent the Imperium itself, and good - for this Imperial citizen - might be defined as "Whoever buys my stuff," which could include Tau, Eldar, etc.

There is one character who brought the most good into the universe, defined relative to each faction in the game.

It's Horus Lupercal.

- The Chaos Space Marines got opportunity to worship their dark Gods and pursue power thanks to Horus. They would not have existed were it not for him.

- The Space Marines / IG got the Imperial Cult as a result of the Heresy. The IC officially is "good" and defines concepts of right and wrong for them. It would not exist without Horus.

- Orks got constant, endless war as a result of Horus's actions, which is their "good." Were it not for him, the Imperium would have remained a scientific powerhouse and 10,000 years of mpire building / scientific advancement surely would have meant their end.

- The Eldar / Dark Eldar got safety in their webway gates as a result of Horus' actions, which can be considered one the greatest "good" for them. Fluff has it the Emperor was working on his own webway gates at the start of the Heresy, which would have meant the opportunity for conquest from within their own cities. It could be argued Horus saved them from that fate.

- The Tau got the opportunity to expand into Imperial territories as a result of Horus. A united Imperium would not have tolerated them at all. It was only because he was able to keep the Imperium on the defensive for centuries that they have been overlooked.

- Tyranids got nothing. They are a hive mind and concepts of "good" are meaningless. It's about what can and cannot be consumed, and nothing Horus or the Imperium could do affects that one way or the other.

So much "good" came about as the result of the actions of one Primarch. No one else has had this kind of impact on concepts of good and evil within the 40k universe, not even the Emperor or the Dark Gods themselves.

...man's got a point.

Considering that it was the Chaos Gods that were behind Horus' actions, the only people who are actually working for the utilitarian ideal of the greatest good for the greatest number of people (irrespective of creed or race) appear to be the Ruinous Powers...

I hadn't thought about that. It's worth remembering the Ruinous Powers have their own agendas, and each Power has it's own agenda. Each of them appears to have been advanced by Horus' actions.

In a very general sense, Horus has brought some "good" into the universe by Necron standards as well. Nothing lead to as much loss of life as the Horus Heresy (except maybe the Birth of Slaanesh.) Considering the Necrons want everything that is not Necrons dead, it could be said his actions are good relative to their agenda.

Having a hard time seeing anyone but Horus as the source of all "Good." He would not have been there but for the Emperor, but his acted to take the Emperor down.

Whats this lame ass Horus Heresy revisionism!

Iron Hand genocide was fake, Death Guard used the viruses only to clean their clothes!

I think Tau and the Imperium are the least badderest.

 techsoldaten wrote:

In a very general sense, Horus has brought some "good" into the universe by Necron standards as well. Nothing lead to as much loss of life as the Horus Heresy (except maybe the Birth of Slaanesh.) Considering the Necrons want everything that is not Necrons dead, it could be said his actions are good relative to their agenda.

(Most) Necrons don't want life exterminated. That said the Imperium would be a much greater threat to the awakening Tomb Worlds had the Horus Heresy never occurred.

Humans, Eldar, Tau, Tyranids, and Necrons are all "good". They exist for their own survival of their species, and no species is required to care, recognize, or otherwise aid in the survival of any other species. There isn't anything really wrong with xenocide from a consequentialist's perspective unless it harms the survival of your own collective in the process. Thus the Imperium is good because it is good for humanity, the T'au Empire is good because it is good for the Tau, the Eldar Craftworlds are good because they are good the Eldar, and the Necron Dynasties are good because they are good for the Necrontyr's survival and eventual resurrection. Each species is in its own struggle for survival, and they are all entitled to pursue the means of their survival however necessary so long as it does not serve the greater good of that survival. For example the Imperium or Tau Empire would be bad if it actually threatened the survival of the species instead of protecting it.

Although I would say that the Imperium would become 'evil' if it ever actually wins and does not change its ways. The Imperium has been justified as a nation for the past ten thousand years because circumstances justify the atrocities it commits as any other path would lead to extinction: an unacceptable outcome. The same holds for the other civilizations of the other species such as the Necrons. They are what I would describe as transitionary. They are bad because they must be bad to lead their species into a better future. Once that future is achieved however they certainly need to relax their level of oppression as it is no longer demanded by their surroundings. If you exterminatus a hundred billion souls because of a small number of dangerous heretics occupying the world that cannot be evicted and threatens nearby innocent planet- your actions are justified and they are good. If you however defeat Chaos and prevent it from ever being a threat, and exterminatus a planet of heretics because they do not fit your dogma, you'd fit many definitions of the word evil and certainly would not be a force for good.

The question of who is "goodest" is silly as it is relativism. An Eldar would say the Craftworlds are the "goodest" faction because it serves his interests and the interests of his people. A Necron (if it's one capable of reason) would say its faction is the "goodest" because it serves the interests of it and its collective the best. Etc.

In terms of general belevolence someone like Isha feels like a safe bet.

Although it was pretty much her fault that caused the War in Heaven, which resulted in the deaths of countless eldar (and if it's the same as the Necron War in Heaven but remembered from a different perspective, which is a possibility, then she's partially responsible for the genocide of the Old Ones, the genocide of the Necrontyr, the creation of the Orks and all the destruction they've wrought, and all the other nastiness that's stemmed from that conflict).

Orks, 100%! They don't care if you're human, alien, elf or a giant squig! If you can offer them a fight they will treat you the same way they would want to be treated!

Chaos are the good guys. Pure to who they are and what they are.

Tyranids.

No bad feelings. No bad intents. Just living life and grabing a meal. Having some babies. Tyranids are no more evil then a lion on a hunt.

Since everyone else is a morally corrupt piece of gak and/or war mongers actively trying to cause harm and/or racists, it has to be the nids.

Grandpa Nurgle. All he wants is for everyone to love everyone.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

They killed a whole company of black Templar to protect their secrets. They are one of the more evil space marine chapters.

 Xenomancers wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

They killed a whole company of black Templar to protect their secrets. They are one of the more evil space marine chapters.

That's not fair, the Black Templar are religious nutters who hate and want to destroy everybody because of psychic ability or any percieved flaw, admittedly the DA don't have much unusual by way of psychic ability and their geneseed is nearly perfect so they'd probably get along well with the Black Templar under normal circumstances but that's like saying you'd normally get along well with the Nazi party's leaders because you have blonde hair and blue eyes...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

They killed a whole company of black Templar to protect their secrets. They are one of the more evil space marine chapters.

That's not fair, the Black Templar are religious nutters who hate and want to destroy everybody because of psychic ability or any percieved flaw, admittedly the DA don't have much unusual by way of psychic ability and their geneseed is nearly perfect so they'd probably get along well with the Black Templar under normal circumstances but that's like saying you'd normally get along well with the Nazi party's leaders because you have blonde hair and blue eyes...

They didnt kill the black templars because their crazy though. They were fine with the BT being crazy zealots. They killed them because they dont care what it costs to hide their secret. There is no length the DA would not go to, no cost, no amount of lives they would not sacrifice on the alter of their secrecy.

Dark Angles have probably commited more atrocities either through direct action or by inaction to pursue their own agenda then any other sm chapter. The fact that they have to hide and cover up all these things is evidence enough for how bad it is.