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Yes I know it's not a word shush.

So this is a topic I discuss with a local shop keeper from time to time, "who could technically be considered the good guys of the universe in 40k?"
I mean its an interesting question? to the uneducated whom know nothing of the lore they would probably say "Speic Murines!!" Because they are the guys in the shiny blue armour and look like knights? But then you learn about the backgrounds to most chapters, and for the most part they all have some pretty rough defects to them. Blood Angels being blood-a-holics whom have a small chance of going berserk, Space Wolves are literally one step away from being human wolves, so on and so forth.
But then you look at the rest of the imperium thinking there has to be some objectively good factions? Inquisition maybe? (If any of you laughed at that, good, that was the purpose) Imperial Guard? Sisters of Battle? None of them stray too far from "Duty bound morally neutral" Aside from the Inquisition which have deeds that range from evil to comically evil.

So we look out to the stars and look at the other races? Chaos is kind of out of the riding since well, Khorne is an army populated by sociopath's, Nurgle is just plain gross (Though I would argue probably the closest to a good alignment of all of them) Slaanesh is just icky, Tzeentch is just plain indecisive, maybe, possibly, it might just be a trick that has us all thinking they are but probably not, then you got Malal, but well, he doesn't exist and we should stop talking about him now.

So for Xenos, every single one of them seems to have flaws to a certain degree, but the one that comes to mind is well, T'au
T'au seem to be the only species in the universe that isn't all about killing things on sight, stealing souls, purging, or capturing to take back to some form of rape pit.
Sure they do some horrible things and may or may not be space communists but in comparison to everyone else they seem pretty friendly to be around (Forceful sterilization of humans in their colonies not withstanding)

So the question is simple?
What do you think of this theory? My knowledge of the lore is a bit weak at best, but the T'au seem to be the most peaceful of the groups.
Perhaps you a discussion on the fact that there is no objective view of good, and it's just a made up concept to make us feel like we are doing the right thing? (Exceptionally pretentious)
Perhaps the true lawful good of the universe was the Vespids? They didn't really harm much.
What are all your guys and gals opinions on the topic of morality in 40k?

Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

Salamanders are the "Nice Guys" of Warhammer 40k. Yeah they will kill everything that threats the Imperium, but theres ways and ways of doing war.

Then you have Farsight Enclaves that have all the "good" parts of the Tau with 0 of their flaws as a race.

Those two groups are the nicest of all the 40k Universe.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

Well, what makes them the goodest of them all?
I have a friend who is a HUGE fan of them, hell I'm painting his Death Wing.
But I know nothing of their morality, other than their psychic powers involve a LOT of torturing

Y'know, in my heart of hearts, I have the most disturbing feeling that it's Orks.

Orks are probably the heroes of the 40k universe.


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TangoTwoBravo wrote:Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

Galas wrote:Salamanders are the "Nice Guys" of Warhammer 40k. Yeah they will kill everything that threats the Imperium, but theres ways and ways of doing war.

Then you have Farsight Enclaves that have all the "good" parts of the Tau with 0 of their flaws as a race.

Those two groups are the nicest of all the 40k Universe.

Yeah, but, I mean, that's all good and well from an Imperial perspective, but really no matter what flavor of Mehreen you're talking in the end they're kind of poison-spitting monsters genetically engineered and psychically indoctrinated to be complete psychopaths.



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OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
Slaanesh is just icky

Hey, I resemble that remark.

Nothing wrong with a bit of excess.

At least the Dark Eldar have free medical care! Twisted, perverse, meglomaniacal medical care, sure. But free!

AnFéasógMór wrote:
Y'know, in my heart of hearts, I have the most disturbing feeling that it's Orks.

Orks are probably the heroes of the 40k universe.


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TangoTwoBravo wrote:Definitely the Dark Angels. They (we) are so upset that a couple of Dark Angels went evil 10,000 years ago that they (we) only feel good when they get those Fallen to apologize.

Seems goodest to me!

Galas wrote:Salamanders are the "Nice Guys" of Warhammer 40k. Yeah they will kill everything that threats the Imperium, but theres ways and ways of doing war.

Then you have Farsight Enclaves that have all the "good" parts of the Tau with 0 of their flaws as a race.

Those two groups are the nicest of all the 40k Universe.

Yeah, but, I mean, that's all good and well from an Imperial perspective, but really no matter what flavor of Mehreen you're talking in the end they're kind of poison-spitting monsters genetically engineered and psychically indoctrinated to be complete psychopaths.



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OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
Slaanesh is just icky

Hey, I resemble that remark.

Nothing wrong with a bit of excess.

At least the Dark Eldar have free medical care! Twisted, perverse, meglomaniacal medical care, sure. But free!

Hey I play Death Guard so I know Icky all too well.
All too well...

I feel like Orks probably would be the closest to heroes, I mean they don't ever really commit war crimes, to them the only war crime is not being in war.

The Imperium.

Any other answer is heresy. And heresy is punished with death.

These philosophical questions are easy.

I'm fairly confident that the whole point of the 40k universe is that there are no good guys. Everybody is in genocide mode 24/7 and any place that even remotely resembles a decent spot to settle down and raise a few kids is guaranteed to get supremely f'd up in the next 10 minutes by some hideous monster/demon/invasion/virus bomb/etc.

And that's why it's so awesome! Anything good or nice or peaceful isn't Grimdark enough and was destroyed millennia ago.

But if I had to pick who was the goodest? Tyranids. Yes they destroy entire star systems and kill billions of people, but they alone don't do it out of spite or hate or dogma. Their purpose is to feed. They kill merely out of instinct, there is no malice behind their actions. Everybody else is perpetually wiping out planets out of hate, which is inherently more evil than the Tyranids.

None. From the point of view of Humanity though Salamanders would be the closest to "good" guys.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
None. From the point of view of Humanity though Salamanders would be the closest to "good" guys.

I was going to say the same thing. No one is really the good guy. The Imperium is just a cold blooded and cruel as Chaos is. Orks and Tyranids are more like forces of Nature than anything else. Both the Eldar and Necrons made huge mistakes that destroyed their empires and now their just trying to rebuild what they lost, the Dark Eldar are another story all together. The Tau are under some delusion that everyone wants to be a space communist. Chaos is just over exaggerated aspects of life (desire, disease, strife, and change). 40K is like Suicide Squad, no real good guys, just various degrees of bad guys

Ravingbantha wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
None. From the point of view of Humanity though Salamanders would be the closest to "good" guys.

The Tau are under some delusion that everyone wants to be a space communist.

Given how fethed up the rest of the universe is, everyone in their right mind should want to become a space communist.

Ravingbantha wrote:

The Tau are under some delusion that everyone wants to be a space communist.

More like "Tau are under a delusion that everyone SHOULD want to be a Space Communist, and anyone that doesn't is irredeemably lost and must die".

It would be hard for them to be under the delusion that everyone wants to be a space communist when they have already encountered many people which don't want to be space communists.

Necrons.

They saved the Galaxy twice, and just want their stuff back.

Hmm lets see.

None of the marine chapter/legions, no matter how good they are out of war, they are still mass murdering genoside machines.

Crons: basically the same as marines, they are literally kill bots (without the inbuilt kill limit)

Tau: Join or Die, at its most basic, they also commit atrocities that today we would consider evil, but on the whole they seem the most "normal", so im gonna go with these guys as the least evil faction, but defo not "good".

Nids dont count and neither do Deamons, neither have a choice and are just by there very nature, dangerous.

Well, define what good means in a universe full of other races, all competing for resources.

In absolute terms, the survival of your species is the ultimate good for your species. Using that yardstick, the Imperium, Craftworld Eldar, Tau and Tyranids are all 'good', as they are primarily concerned with the survival of their species. Of course there are selfish members of most of these races, but their broad motivations are species focused.

All the others are more about individual survival/gratification than the species. The Necrons traded away their flesh and souls for digital immortality (reducing most of their people to automatons in the process), while Dark Eldar will do anything on an individual level to stave off Slannesh. Chaos Space Marines are all chasing personal ascension to daemonhood. Orks just want to have fun fighting anything and everything. Daemons just want to consume souls. They are 'selfish' races - they still need to promote their species, but this is a personal convenience - the numbers help them achieve their individual goals.

The Jokaero. They just wanna build cool gak.

Eldrad. Sure, he might do things that seem unsavory, but it's always for a much greater good in the end.

The Imperial Inquisition. Any suggestion to the contrary is heresy and punishable by death.

 Galas wrote:
Salamanders are the "Nice Guys" of Warhammer 40k. Yeah they will kill everything that threats the Imperium, but theres ways and ways of doing war.

Then you have Farsight Enclaves that have all the "good" parts of the Tau with 0 of their flaws as a race.

Those two groups are the nicest of all the 40k Universe.

The thing about Salamanders is that they view flamethrowers as the most humane weapon, due to some religious fanaticism regarding fire.

Death by flamethrower is a horrific and cruel way to die. Their use is banned in modern warfare specifically because they're a horrific weapon to use on people.

Sallies might well be 'least worst', apart from the whole enjoying burning people alive thing though...

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Imperial Inquisition. Any suggestion to the contrary is heresy and punishable by death.

I did not expect the Imperial Inquisition...

 Happyjew wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Imperial Inquisition. Any suggestion to the contrary is heresy and punishable by death.

I did not expect the Imperial Inquisition...

NO ONE EXPECTS THE INQUISITION!

IandI wrote:
I'm fairly confident that the whole point of the 40k universe is that there are no good guys. Everybody is in genocide mode 24/7 and any place that even remotely resembles a decent spot to settle down and raise a few kids is guaranteed to get supremely f'd up in the next 10 minutes by some hideous monster/demon/invasion/virus bomb/etc.

And that's why it's so awesome! Anything good or nice or peaceful isn't Grimdark enough and was destroyed millennia ago.

But if I had to pick who was the goodest? Tyranids. Yes they destroy entire star systems and kill billions of people, but they alone don't do it out of spite or hate or dogma. Their purpose is to feed. They kill merely out of instinct, there is no malice behind their actions. Everybody else is perpetually wiping out planets out of hate, which is inherently more evil than the Tyranids.

This. If there is one thing to take from 40k, it's that morality within 40k is completely subjective, everyone is the good guy, and no one is the good guy.

Slaanesh aligned individuals, they just want everyone to have a great time.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Imperial Inquisition. Any suggestion to the contrary is heresy and punishable by death.

Heck yeah. Questions about morality aren't subjective when Inquisition is present.

That's the Imperial way.

Imperial Ogryns!

nareik wrote:
Imperial Ogryns!

Ok, I have to agree with this. Their infantile purity and innocence is unrivaled in all of Warhammer40k universe.

I like how they will only get into a chimera when a Commissar is accompanying them (it's his job to remind them that the Emperor is still watching them, even though it is dark).

The Orks.

They have no malice against anyone (or rather they have no concept of malice).
They treat all races equally (i.e: they all make for good krumpin')
They have a meritocratic society (i.e: I beat your head, I iz boss. You beat my head, you iz boss).
They honour even the dead of their foes (bosspoles)
They are completely self fulfilled (WAAAAGH).

Space Wolves.
Space Wolves under Russ were honest to goodness monsters who brutalised populations so that other populations would be too terrified to stand up to the Imperium.

Space Wolves under Logan Grimnar are nanny state meddlers who stand up for the common people against the Inquisition, hopefully I'm not remembering fanfiction when I say they tried to rescue the Squatts and have even shown mercy to Xenos.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Salamanders are the "Nice Guys" of Warhammer 40k. Yeah they will kill everything that threats the Imperium, but theres ways and ways of doing war.

Then you have Farsight Enclaves that have all the "good" parts of the Tau with 0 of their flaws as a race.

Those two groups are the nicest of all the 40k Universe.

The thing about Salamanders is that they view flamethrowers as the most humane weapon, due to some religious fanaticism regarding fire.

Death by flamethrower is a horrific and cruel way to die. Their use is banned in modern warfare specifically because they're a horrific weapon to use on people.

Sallies might well be 'least worst', apart from the whole enjoying burning people alive thing though...

I think If The Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device summed it up best: "So Salamanders are creepy but nice guys who have a thing for helping civilians. And fire".


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 RedCommander wrote:
The Imperium.

Any other answer is heresy. And heresy is punished with death.

These philosophical questions are easy.

This is the correct answer.