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dadamowsky wrote:
Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

I think it's not very useful to spend 250 points on 3 single models that don't synergizes with your main force. For that amount of point you can bring a Drill with 10 vanguard with 3 plasma that is way more useful as can grab objectives or use stratagems. There are many better ways to investing your points.

Um... assassins often make top 8 in major tournaments(and won both London GT tournaments(most recent big event)

Vindicare sucks so bad it's not even funny. 90 pts for 1 D3 damage shot, that gets heavy weapon penalty? Huh?
Callidus isn't as good past faq, but she still is ok-good
Eversor and culexus are both great.

They make the game from "ok standart imperium stuff" into "wow these guys are annoying". 1 tiny model deepstrike is amazing. It's very easy to leave a spot for it by accident. (Especially when callidus can deepstrike at 3+D6). It warps your opponent's movement(which is where games are won or lost)

 brugner8 wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

I think it's not very useful to spend 250 points on 3 single models that don't synergizes with your main force. For that amount of point you can bring a Drill with 10 vanguard with 3 plasma that is way more useful as can grab objectives or use stratagems. There are many better ways to investing your points.

I won't be able to deny psychic shenanigns with Vanguards in a Drill. And I know that I will face a Magnus 1ksons, and psychic heavy Eldar. So while a Drill is indeed tempting, I'm afraid a Graia stratagem will not help me enough to negate. It's only 1 stratagem per phase.

Generaly I want to field an Admech with 5 Dragoons (or 3 Icarus Onagers - haven't decided yet; my opponents will be FLY heavy as well), Crusader/Warden, Helverin and 2x Warglaives. 1750. For a spare points I can either boost my Admech with DS, or give myself some sort of psychic protection. And knowing how vulnerable knights are to psychic shenanigans, I'd rather givemyself some sort of protection in that compartment.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I really don't think cullexus is dead. I love my 3 assassin detachment

It's not that it's not viable. There are just some problems:
1) If you go up against a Psyker-less army, you have dead points. It's important then that your anti-Psyker component be value added rather than specialized.
2) Opportunity cost for an Assassin detachment is high. I would kill for four detachments (with detachments themselves getting rule of 3'ed).

I don't think something with 6s to hit is ever dead points tbh. I've asked InControl(3rd in ITC) about it vs no psyker armies. It is still very effective. Plus for me it's just 1 Culexus. So no big deal.

I mean, both London GT winners ran a Culexus. It can't be that bad.

Well, I have two points of concern, not just the one. I think it makes sense if you're using an army where two detachments take up the bulk of your points. AdMech is an army where it pays to diversify though.

I actually would almost always run a BA Supreme Command or Battalion over Assassins. Similar use cases, but more efficient. You can also get a Techmarine with Beamer and Vitae for CP recycling goodness.

Also, whether or not someone likes them or they're placing in different armies' lists doesn't really mean they're competitive for our army.

dadamowsky wrote:
Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

If you had to pick, 2x Eversor and 1x Culexus or 3x Eversor are your best bets. They were a lot stronger when the character rules used to be broken. You could also take as many as you wanted back then. Haha.

dadamowsky wrote:
I won't be able to deny psychic shenanigns with Vanguards in a Drill. And I know that I will face a Magnus 1ksons, and psychic heavy Eldar. So while a Drill is indeed tempting, I'm afraid a Graia stratagem will not help me enough to negate. It's only 1 stratagem per phase.

Please don't tell me you're trying to counter Magnus, 1K Sons, and Eldar with Deny the Witch. Just bring Icarus Crawlers and 5-6x Kastelan Robots and kill him on turn one. (Incidentally, those counter Eldar too.)

Suzuteo wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

If you had to pick, 2x Eversor and 1x Culexus or 3x Eversor are your best bets. They were a lot stronger when the character rules used to be broken. You could also take as many as you wanted back then. Haha.

dadamowsky wrote:
I won't be able to deny psychic shenanigns with Vanguards in a Drill. And I know that I will face a Magnus 1ksons, and psychic heavy Eldar. So while a Drill is indeed tempting, I'm afraid a Graia stratagem will not help me enough to negate. It's only 1 stratagem per phase.

Please don't tell me you're trying to counter Magnus, 1K Sons, and Eldar with Deny the Witch. Just bring Icarus Crawlers and 5-6x Kastelan Robots and kill him on turn one. (Incidentally, those counter Eldar too.)

I want to counter messing with invul saves, or -3 on Hemlock. I don't even hope to deny every D3 wounds I will be swallowing. As for Kastelans - out of the option. I'm playing on a very terrain and LoS breaks heavy tables, and more often than not Kastelans has nothing to shoot at without repositioning. Or nothing at all. BS5+ on a unit 110 pts per model is not working at all in my favor. Even more if being CC engaged in turn 2 by Shining Spears from behind a LoS break to avoid Overwatch.



EDIT: An example of the table from yesterday match against Eldar, and a few terrains went missing this round anyway (two big rocks and a building were out). Deployment - bottom right and upper left quarter. ITC cut to the heart mission. The wall you see in the bottom just as the building in the upper quarter were completely blocking LoS from anything standing behind (walls are counted as solid in my gaming enviroment - can't shoot through windows). Kastelans had literaly nothing to shoot at. Onagers barely could shoot at all. Basicaly a typical shooting Admech is a great no-no on these tables.
https://imgur.com/YUSYzzY

Uh... what Imperium model does better than Icarus Crawler against -3 Hemlock again?

Shooting minus to hit is baked into the cake. Might as well not play AdMech or any shooting army if that deters you. That being said, minus to hit has a greater psychological effect than a statistical one. It's a bit better than being in cover or dealing with a FNP, but that's all.

You aren't going to get engaged by Shining Spears on turn 2 if you're castling correctly. I mean, who would position closely to terrain that can be used to prevent LOS like you're proposing?

Really, I am not sure you understand the matchup if these are your worries.

Please take a look at the table I posted. I were literaly unable to castle up without having a wall LoS blocking. If I wanted a LoS, I'd have to be deployed near the center circle and be in SSpears charge turn 1. There's no way I can think of to make Kastelans working in such enviroment.

Wait, what? How did you guys set up your terrain?!

That board looks poorly balanced. That big building on the right is in a terrible position, the wall and rock in the center are strange pieces to build around, and the bottom-right deployment zone is rather large. And looking at the ruler on the corner for scale, unfair for a variety of armies.

EDIT: On a side note, if you got the top-left deployment, you should be okay. The center-left area actually lets you shoot into the enemy deployment and all areas he is forced to move through to maneuver because that big building in the center-right and ruins in bottom-left are too close to the edge.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Im relatively new to the game, I don't know much about terrain building. But knowing what am I up against, I have to adjust or embrace loosing constantly.

dadamowsky wrote:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Im relatively new to the game, I don't know much about terrain building. But knowing what am I up against, I have to adjust or embrace loosing constantly.

For ITC set ups, divide the table into a 3x3 grid with 9 imaginary cells. Place one small terrain piece in each of the 8 outer cells, taking care to mirror their sizes and orientations. Then place two large terrain pieces in the center cell in a way that blocks LOS to the opponent's deployment, but never along the short axis of the table. In your example, the big buildings would be along the top-left and bottom-right edges of the center cell. Ruins would just be in the centers of the eight outer cells, with the corners pointed toward the center.

Here's an example:

I would swap the bottom-center buiding here with the trees in the center, but as you can see, one terrain piece in each of the outer cells. The big building and trees are opposite one another in the center, but on the long axis. The ruins have their corners facing the center.

Thanks. I'll try to promote this kind of thinking in the terrain setup.

dadamowsky wrote:
Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

With the new rules I did a detachment of 2 Eversors, 2 Culexus, and then a single Callidus and Vindicare. It was kinda fun. Callidus is very underrated for sure in terms of utility, though you can't really expect the Vindicare to do TOO much. I love that old model anyway so to bust it out anyway...

Suzuteo wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Im relatively new to the game, I don't know much about terrain building. But knowing what am I up against, I have to adjust or embrace loosing constantly.

For ITC set ups, divide the table into a 3x3 grid with 9 imaginary cells. Place one small terrain piece in each of the 8 outer cells, taking care to mirror their sizes and orientations. Then place two large terrain pieces in the center cell in a way that blocks LOS to the opponent's deployment, but never along the short axis of the table. In your example, the big buildings would be along the top-left and bottom-right edges of the center cell. Ruins would just be in the centers of the eight outer cells, with the corners pointed toward the center.

Here's an example:

I would swap the bottom-center buiding here with the trees in the center, but as you can see, one terrain piece in each of the outer cells. The big building and trees are opposite one another in the center, but on the long axis. The ruins have their corners facing the center.

BTW, are there some sort of official ITC guidelines in terms of terrain design? I haven't found any on their site so far.

That table may as well be empty.

Won a game versus sneaky death guard this evening. I know everyone Is firmly on the stygies train but my goodness Cawls rerolls make a difference.

Go Team Mars!

If I was going to splash on a supreme command detachment would I be best bringing blood angels or guard for CP regen? Or would this entirely depend on my current list?

I want to keep Admech bodies for my battalion but am open to adding in 3 characters(models) to my list for CP fluffing

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That table may as well be empty.

I do think the trees in the middle aren't right, but that's a bit harsh.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Won a game versus sneaky death guard this evening. I know everyone Is firmly on the stygies train but my goodness Cawls rerolls make a difference.

Go Team Mars!

If I was going to splash on a supreme command detachment would I be best bringing blood angels or guard for CP regen? Or would this entirely depend on my current list?

I want to keep Admech bodies for my battalion but am open to adding in 3 characters(models) to my list for CP fluffing

If it has to be Supreme Command detachment, take Blood Angels. Probably Slamguinius, Mephiston, and a Techmarine with Beamer and Vitae. That or Slamguinius, Lemartes, a Techmarine with Beamer and Vitae, and a unit of 15x Death Company (12 Bolters+Chainswords, 3 Thunder Hammer).

Just beware, those Blood Angels are addicted to your CP xD


Has anyone some experience with running Ironstrider Ballistarii? (preferably as Stygies) If so do you prefer Auto- or Lascanons for them?

 lash92 wrote:
Just beware, those Blood Angels are addicted to your CP xD

Has anyone some experience with running Ironstrider Ballistarii? (preferably as Stygies) If so do you prefer Auto- or Lascanons for them?

Yeah. Hence why I would take a Company Commander and Techmarine with Vitae.

Use the Lascannons. Autocannons are strong against a very narrow band of targets.

Suzuteo wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
Just beware, those Blood Angels are addicted to your CP xD

Has anyone some experience with running Ironstrider Ballistarii? (preferably as Stygies) If so do you prefer Auto- or Lascanons for them?

Yeah. Hence why I would take a Company Commander and Techmarine with Vitae.

Use the Lascannons. Autocannons are strong against a very narrow band of targets.

I'd argue for Autocannons actually. You pay for AP on the Lascannons that might not come into play, it has less shots of you have smaller targets, and the consistent damage is good for 2-3 wound models.

If you want more damage, I'm sure that the Dune Crawler can satisfy that need. Pretty sure those were about equal, but the Autocannon just makes more sense for the Ballistarii.

Suzuteo wrote:
Wait, what? How did you guys set up your terrain?!

That board looks poorly balanced. That big building on the right is in a terrible position, the wall and rock in the center are strange pieces to build around, and the bottom-right deployment zone is rather large. And looking at the ruler on the corner for scale, unfair for a variety of armies.

EDIT: On a side note, if you got the top-left deployment, you should be okay. The center-left area actually lets you shoot into the enemy deployment and all areas he is forced to move through to maneuver because that big building in the center-right and ruins in bottom-left are too close to the edge.

Lots of terrain blocking LOS is pretty much essential in 8th least game devolve into 2 gunlines seeing who shoots other most.

If you have so little terrain you can pretty much quarantee LOS to enemy DZ without issues you have too little terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That table may as well be empty.

And is boring as hell. So let\s see. Huge swathes of free LOS so if you aren't gunline you are screwed. And top of that symmetric which is boring as hell.

I would avoid those tables like plague.

I make table almost symmetric because I don't like giving advantages to one player based on a single die roll before the game begins. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick the side with most terrain. (since I play with pre-placed objectives)

and now... .armiger no longer deny CP benefits in a super detach with 2xarmiger 1xquestoris!! yppieeee!!!

Suzuteo wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That table may as well be empty.

I do think the trees in the middle aren't right, but that's a bit harsh.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Won a game versus sneaky death guard this evening. I know everyone Is firmly on the stygies train but my goodness Cawls rerolls make a difference.

Go Team Mars!

If I was going to splash on a supreme command detachment would I be best bringing blood angels or guard for CP regen? Or would this entirely depend on my current list?

I want to keep Admech bodies for my battalion but am open to adding in 3 characters(models) to my list for CP fluffing

If it has to be Supreme Command detachment, take Blood Angels. Probably Slamguinius, Mephiston, and a Techmarine with Beamer and Vitae. That or Slamguinius, Lemartes, a Techmarine with Beamer and Vitae, and a unit of 15x Death Company (12 Bolters+Chainswords, 3 Thunder Hammer).

For now it’s looking like a supreme command yeah. Less models and lets me dabble without to big a commitment. I’m hesitant to get scores of models painted up for trial


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lash92 wrote:
Just beware, those Blood Angels are addicted to your CP xD

Yes not sure how well that will stack with Admech but might be fun for me to play about with

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That table may as well be empty.

Are you basically expecting every inch to be covered or something?

So +3 Super heavy detach. Let us talka bout lists and how they perform in table.

So far i d like some feedback for two variations.

One list with crusader knight and one with lancer .Obviously im talking about orientation .

I m thinking a melee oriented list with lancer dragoons stygies and assasins as my 3 detachments. or with our assasin win two detachments. And id like to see what you all think about the rest of unit.

I got a list something like
lancer + 2 helverins super heavy
battalion dominus 2xneutron 4-5xdragoons transport some plasma or priests?

and a crusader list still on the making .

thanks for any input or details on playtesting

 Yoda79 wrote:
So +3 Super heavy detach. Let us talka bout lists and how they perform in table.

So far i d like some feedback for two variations.

One list with crusader knight and one with lancer .Obviously im talking about orientation .

I m thinking a melee oriented list with lancer dragoons stygies and assasins as my 3 detachments. or with our assasin win two detachments. And id like to see what you all think about the rest of unit.

I got a list something like
lancer + 2 helverins super heavy
battalion dominus 2xneutron 4-5xdragoons transport some plasma or priests?

and a crusader list still on the making .

thanks for any input or details on playtesting

Lancer looks fun

What do you think of the below list now it generates 3CP (for GW tournaments of 1750)


 

**++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [49 PL, 795pts] ++**

 

**+ Uncategorised +**

 

**Forge World:** Stygies VIII

 

**+ HQ +**

 

**Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]:** Omnissian Axe, Raiment of the Technomartyr, Servo-arm


. **Warlord:** Monitor Malevolus

 

**Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]:** Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm

 

**+ Troops +**

 

**Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]:** 4x Skitarii Ranger


. **Ranger Alpha:** Galvanic rifle

 

**Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]:** 4x Skitarii Ranger


. **Ranger Alpha:** Galvanic rifle

 

**Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]:** 4x Skitarii Ranger


. **Ranger Alpha:** Galvanic rifle

 

**+ Elites +**

 

**Fulgurite Electro-Priests [16 PL, 256pts]:** 16x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

 

**+ Fast Attack +**

 

**Sydonian Dragoons [15 PL, 340pts]**


. **Sydonian Dragoon:** Taser lance

. **Sydonian Dragoon:** Taser lance

. **Sydonian Dragoon:** Taser lance

. **Sydonian Dragoon:** Taser lance

. **Sydonian Dragoon:** Taser lance

 

**++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [48 PL, 952pts] ++**

 

**+ No Force Org Slot +**

 

**Household Choice**

 

**+ Lord of War +**

 

**Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 174pts]**


. **Armiger Helverin:** Heavy stubber

 

**Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 174pts]**


. **Armiger Helverin:** Heavy stubber

 

**Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]:** Heirloom: Cawl's Wrath, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark


. **Character:** Warlord

. **Two Siegebreaker Cannons & Two Shieldbreaker Missiles:** 2x Shieldbreaker Missile, 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon

 

**++ Total: [97 PL, 1747pts] ++**

 

Created with [BattleScribe](http://www.battlescribe.net)

Looks superb!

Though I dont own a Castelan so I d go with a smaller one ? Not sure yet. But that's what I plan maybe a transport and less priests ?

Yeah the Drill is quite tempting too. A small problem with your Lancer idea. Over on Bolter someone pointed out an issue with stratagems exalted court and heirlooms of the household. The wording is “Questoris Class” or “Dominus Class” nothing about Ceratus. Which means I guess it ain’t official unless gw do an FAQ 2.0

And that is probably months away right? I might email them in case it was missed and unintentional

Just saying, if you go to a competitive tournament, "interesting" terrain setups aren't what they're going for. Balanced and fair is where it's at.

AdMech's big draws now are first turn alpha strikes, great artillery, and maybe Knight synergy.

Does anyone think the below would be funny/effective? Or all eggs in one basket = disaster?

Cawl
TPE
2x Icarus
6x dakabots
3x 5 man ranger squads

Gallant
Warglaive
Warglaive

Edit* monitor malevelous on TPE and just play super aggressive*