Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As said I wonder what many posting here.

Suzuteo I really admire you even answered all that.

If someone depending not understand we are ad mech players . We love knights steam punk crusaders castlans robots etc but we are talking about and optimal list then there is no point.

Simply put investing in a single unit or model anything 600+ points it's a plan you need to back it up.

Either it's called 6* robots or a Castelan both different still require a plan behind then so you won't cry. Most likely the most effective strategy when you heading towards a focused list is to take advantage of your pros.

A Castelan for me makes the list full knight list. You need to provide same threat for your opponent so you won't get constant focused fire. Get an elite army to play first bla bla . While if you play a baneblade you need to consider you play guard. Str in numbers even with a baneblade.

The logic is simple for any player to understand ! Knight list will auto win some non anti tank list will aim to play first and remove enough threats to take the advantage and needs to have many targets threats for split fire.

Simple things no grand strategies all know and I don't find reason to explain about one big expensive unit inside a list.

I d like to ask if someone has experience from lists with a super heavy deatchmens one knight and warglaives with ad mech thanks

New to the forum so be kind ha.
I have tested a few builds vs an all knight list. Lost both games on points.
As requested by yoda, i tried a backline crusader, guard cp farm battalion and an admec battalion (vanguard) with 40 priests, 5 dragoons and a termite drill.
I went 2nd both times. Dragoons simply died when focused on, autohit flamers or charged by the massive knight threat ranges their save simply does not hold up. Armiger 3 damage destroys them, fast.
Priests were awesome as always infiltrated in, even going 2nd they take the fire and still took out 2 knights.
Crusader did its job, backline fire then t3 got mulched in cc.
Termite drill...wow.....dropped off some vanguard to take down knights toughness, shot then charged a full health knight...destroyed it in one turn! Next turn it got one shot killed by the harpoon lol.
As for those saying cant chargre knights, you can..it may hurt but they get in...even a tech-priest got in taking only 2 damage!
So in conclusion the backline knight worked but as its not a key part of my list it did what was needed of it, nothing more.
Dragoons are predictable now and have a poor save.
Priests and termite drill ftw lol.

It's really fine if your Dragoons die. They are one of many must-kill targets. This one deals a massive number of S8+1 attacks for a very low point cost. Thing is, they have an annoying -1 to hit and -2 to hit past 12" penalty, and they can weather a lot of shooting that could otherwise be directed toward your Kastelan Robots, Slamguinius, etc.

Helverins are definitely one thing Dragoons should be afraid of. They are heavily specialized against T6 targets and have very low opportunity cost for shooting them. (Ironically, this is a weakness in most matchups.)

Your Crusader should avoid CC against anything but the squishy stuff. The Raven stratagem makes it a much more worthwhile shooting platform.

That Termite's drill is definitely something.

Some other competitively minded mechanicus guys I talk to are rushing out to buy termites for their staff priests. Play tests with proxies has them simply demolishing stuff.

Yeah. I think 8E has previously drilled into our heads the idea that transports should be shooting platforms. Drill is perhaps the first real transport-as-melee-platform. The double Storm Bolters are also no slouch. Still skeptical about the double Heavy Flamers, but I'll admit they have their uses against Eldar and such.

Oh, and Wulfey, are you still sticking to infiltrating these things? Deep strike and disembark 3" means Priests need to make a 6" charge.

Also, seriously, someone find one of these things in the wild and measure its dimensions please!

Few questions:
Can a single knight use a household stratagem? I know they can use stratagems but not get household traits does this affect using a specific household stratagem?
Has a faq been released regarding infiltrating the drill? Do you pay cps for units inside the drill or just the 1 cp for the drill and contents.
As for termite size i will post actual size later but basically its about the same size as a rhino with a snout. 10 vanguard can hide behind it but 32mm bases (priests) will struggle to stay in 3" unles they wrap around it.

Envii wrote:
Few questions:
Can a single knight use a household stratagem? I know they can use stratagems but not get household traits does this affect using a specific household stratagem?
Has a faq been released regarding infiltrating the drill? Do you pay cps for units inside the drill or just the 1 cp for the drill and contents.
As for termite size i will post actual size later but basically its about the same size as a rhino with a snout. 10 vanguard can hide behind it but 32mm bases (priests) will struggle to stay in 3" unles they wrap around it.

Yes. Only the traditions are lost when you use a lone Knight.

Consensus here seems to be 1 CP for the Drill and its contents. I am of the opinion that you need to pay for each unit though. Definitely needs an FAQ.

Why would they struggle? They need to be 'within 3",' not 'wholly within 3".' This means your models can all touch the 3" line exactly, right? (I might be wrong, but then again, I literally have never used a transport in 8E before. )

And possible loadouts for these Drills:

12 Fulgurites
2x6 Vanguard w/ 2 Plasma Calivers
Enginseer w/ Mask + 11 Secutarii Hoplites
12x Death Company w/ 3 Thunder Hammer
Inquisitor + 11 of anything above

Woot...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's an interesting concept list:

Basically, 100% of the Stygies detachment has the option of infiltrating or going into reserve. 10 Carbines and 1 Caliver in two Drills, 11 Fulgurites in the third Drill. The Enginseers can go into any of these Drills to repair. Because you're putting everything into reserve together, there are only 13 drops in this list.

EDIT: Oh. Someone pointed out to me that I have been thinking Fulgurites are 17 points, but Chapter Approved dropped them to 16 points. Also, that Mephiston is 145 points.

If you deepstrike the Drill and disembark, the unit which disembarked still needs to be more than 9" away from the enemy. So no 6" charge...

 lash92 wrote:
If you deepstrike the Drill and disembark, the unit which disembarked still needs to be more than 9" away from the enemy. So no 6" charge...

Ah! Good catch. So only the Vanguard will be deep striking. The Priests definitely are going in via infiltration.

Under these circumstances I'm not quite sure if I would even infiltrate the priests in a drill. 10 T8 wounds with 3+ is pretty easy to kill if you go second...

Autocannon ironstriders have any sense when you cabeza field a helverin por just 24 pts more?

 lash92 wrote:
Under these circumstances I'm not quite sure if I would even infiltrate the priests in a drill. 10 T8 wounds with 3+ is pretty easy to kill if you go second...

Well in a vacuum yes it's easy to kill the drill.

The idea is that there are multiple drills, dragoons, and stuff like kastellans or a Castellan (nice job with the names GW) in the backline unloading into you. Essentially you can't stop all of it

Only problem is 3 drills is £225 add on 3.5 units of secutarii £180
So £400 for 1/4 of you army now look at the £per pt effectiveness of dragoons and we encounter the biggest barrier to people playing admech

Its cheaper to play pure forgeworld knights

People have been buying this guy:
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/veer-myn/product/tunneller.html

Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

What size is that mini? The termite drill is 7" x 3.5" x 3.5"?

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

How flexible are the TO with proxies such as the Mantic drill Suzuteo linked?

Zorninsson wrote:
Autocannon ironstriders have any sense when you cabeza field a helverin por just 24 pts more?

Autocannon ironstriders are not great, their main benefit is that you can give a lot of them +2 to hit at once. Helverins seem a bit better.

 Ideasweasel wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

How flexible are the TO with proxies such as the Mantic drill Suzuteo linked?

I think that thing is too far off personally. There are knockoffs out there for $50 if you can find them.

I don't want to link it directly, but there is a something something terrax drill out there. I am either running the resin or nothing personally.

Fellow c o g b o y e s, not to get ahead of myself, but a few more hours of printing and I will have finished a batch of 9 3d printed mortar pods for one of our comrades here, after that I will be making more for myself and potentially others.
It takes 1-2 hours per unit to print so I can't deliver them rapidly but I can make as many as people want in the fullness of time.
I'm working for "what it's worth to you / tips" to cover the replacement printer bits and my time babysitting the printer.
My army's theme following the Skitarii school of thought is "everything walks" and that includes mortar weapons so I created these ph34r pattern baby crawlers primarily for my own Phobos army. Feel free to PM me if you are interested.

 Ideasweasel wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

How flexible are the TO with proxies such as the Mantic drill Suzuteo linked?

Varies with the TO

Rule of thumb always ask

GW TO's wont allow it

But generally if dimentions are similar and its clear what it is others will if anything is confuseing e.g. unclear if its a melta or flamer or its the wrong size its a no

 ph34r wrote:
Fellow c o g b o y e s, not to get ahead of myself, but a few more hours of printing and I will have finished a batch of 9 3d printed mortar pods for one of our comrades here, after that I will be making more for myself and potentially others.
It takes 1-2 hours per unit to print so I can't deliver them rapidly but I can make as many as people want in the fullness of time.
I'm working for "what it's worth to you / tips" to cover the replacement printer bits and my time babysitting the printer.
My army's theme following the Skitarii school of thought is "everything walks" and that includes mortar weapons so I created these ph34r pattern baby crawlers primarily for my own Phobos army. Feel free to PM me if you are interested.

Spoiler:

Love it and what a guy offering for your services. Not currently looking for models but they look awesome. Well done sir


Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

How flexible are the TO with proxies such as the Mantic drill Suzuteo linked?

Varies with the TO

Rule of thumb always ask

GW TO's wont allow it

But generally if dimentions are similar and its clear what it is others will if anything is confuseing e.g. unclear if its a melta or flamer or its the wrong size its a no

I think I’m just going to go official forgeworld. Will prob get one for looks but who knows after that. Will need to wait for some batreps of how they perform from our seasoned vets in this thread

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah the price on the drills is keeping me away from them. If I get a raise at work maybe I will run them at the BAO. The staff priest + termite list is super competitive and pretty fun from what i hear.

Got a list for us to see? I'm having a tough time figuring out the best mix.

For me it's all about list building as I see it.

When knights added again as ad mech ally same came the transport.

For me a clear thinking would something like.

A) what kind of list you making
B) what kind of knights you take
C) what you like.

I was having a hard time trying to mix all of the best ad mech atm in one list but after reading some feedback and testing some I decided I'd be using the lists like this.

1) crusader Castelan lists.
If I'm using my ally knights as dakka heavy then it's clear I m using stygies ad mech. I need the extra -1 defence and the best possible option ( infiltration) formmy assault! I'd prefer to add 6 Dragoons and helverins in this list. Even guard or graia battalions.

2) when I decide to use a dakka ad mech and melee soup ally like custodes or warden knight etc then it seems more likely for me to get Mars and transports.

It's exactly the same I was trying to say about 10 infiltrators pre faq. If you take a brigade Mars then infiltrators are a must since you had no other option . And a group of 10 would shoot 50 shots with wrath of Mars.

Now we got transports the options are great. Not cheap but great. Depending on your list composition you got some choises.

From rusttalkers to range priests and plasma vanguard or staff priests. If you decide to pick up warglaives with your warden and use then as screen or team them up for assault then you could just add some vanguard's with plasma on a drill? It will hold 2 groups with 4 plasma and +2 . Not bad at all .

You can add both new units with any hq.
You try range priest if you want to spend wrath on Mars on them!!!!!!!!! 12" range .

And off staff priests any hq combo bla bla.

Now don't forget there are benefits you need to remember.

Transport will lower you model count.thats why I added armiger's and a knight as superheavy detachment . Making this army a true elite army low model count taking advantage of the +1 to go first. It's important.

So remember you can fit 2*5 troops and 2 hq inside . For 1750 point lists or two detachment tour and generally restrictions it's a nice option!
Also this transport not the best or cheapest in the world for me actually gave us a chance to make an elite army . Not the end of the world as we said before we had transport. Not the biggest issue with ad mech. The extra cp made us more competitive. You can use CP to play effective stygies for example.

Now that been said I'd take no more than 1-2 transports is a general list. Most likely drills would follow my detachment setup. If I got many troops in my list like two battalions then most likely it take two drills as well.

If you making an deep strike plan it's another talk but after faq I would not have 3*130 drills filled with troops w8ing till second round to become enaged and try to make 9" charges etc.

Assault army = stygies like it or not. If you heading to mass assault maybe supporting range knights or you planning something like 2*19 priests then stygiesssss.

And you will see it also easier when you try to make your list.

Castelan or crusader with helverins take lot more points . You d be heading to choises like cheap infiltrating Dragoons or guard screen etc.

Another point I'm trying to make here is the actual results you might deliver. I v talked about two forms of clear lists mainly with knight allies. The main reason I don't go in depth about custodes or Ba or guard allows no more is the actual synergy/result.

You take BA or custodes for specific reasons. You take guard also for specific reasons. And for those you only need to make a point cost /. Effectiveness measurement depending on your play style and actual models.

I consider an ad mech pure list in a good standing atm! Don't need guard so much . Yes their got a set of orders but Mars got two cantickles adjustable from Cawl. You can actually benefit them twice. Etc etc. And ofx where you d spend your CP. 6+ for your hq to get a CP back YOURs or enemy is good! It costs only a WT not WT and relic as guard one and with a transport you can hide many things at start of the batlles.

Thanks for reading.

I still try Cawl star with a group of melee knoght armiger's and trying what other options are left! Thanks for reading

Yeah i Was never a fan of transporter but i got to say, this drill opens up so many options for AdMech its insane.
Sad that secutarii dont get forgeworld dogmas. I dont think they are worth to take atm. Hoplites seem cool but what could be their Job? The drill leads to the possibility of going pure admech again which I really love. Now got to buy at least 2 of those...


This for a start



There doesnt seem to be a useful relic to give to one of the Tpe so that it would be worth putting them in one of the drills. But if you do we are looking at 9 drops, 9 CP.
Dragoons obviously will be the screen if needed.

Hoplites either need a drill or if your playing an artillary list you could take one unit as a screen for CC armies.

With a dogma they would have been good

This has became a basic concept for me as ad mech. It's exactly where I consider Ad mech prevails above all else. Rerollomg all shots miss or hits making them a good all around threat vs anything hordish air and some options vs elite troops or even if need be wrath of Mars. It's range mortal wound with 36 range threat extreme!

Mars spearhead
Cawl
4 Dakkastelans
Icarus onager with stubber
Icarus onager with stubber

From this point on sure pure mech also possible but .

Superheavy knight detach +3 CP

2* warglaives to increase the threats with an all around knght even a paladin or a warden or what ever the case seems logical.

Why you can't tar pit all knight detach. You can effectively avoid and shooting and screening knights armigers and Robots. And most important you will never decide a target above all others.

You target knight you get the robots . You focus robots the knight party. And even if I love dragoons unless you got for a stygies battalion then I consider warglaives somewhat same role effective. Some shooting some melee.

Now how to get priests and transport in I don't know but I believe in a 1750 game I'd go for plasma troops with or without transport.
And try to get a priest + transport in my bigger list!

Iago40k wrote:
Yeah i Was never a fan of transporter but i got to say, this drill opens up so many options for AdMech its insane.
Sad that secutarii dont get forgeworld dogmas. I dont think they are worth to take atm. Hoplites seem cool but what could be their Job? The drill leads to the possibility of going pure admech again which I really love. Now got to buy at least 2 of those...


This for a start

Spoiler:

Stygies Battalion

TPE WL, monitor
TPE

6 Vanguard 2 Plasma
6 Vanguard 2 Plasma
Ranger

10 melee priests

5 Dragoons

2 drills

Mars spearhead
Cawl
4 Dakkastelans
Icarus onager with stubber
Icarus onager with stubber

There doesnt seem to be a useful relic to give to one of the Tpe so that it would be worth putting them in one of the drills. But if you do we are looking at 9 drops, 9 CP.
Dragoons obviously will be the screen if needed.

Idea: Enginseer with Omniscient Mask + 11 Hoplites

Jump out, shoot, charge.

Suzuteo wrote:

Idea: Enginseer with Omniscient Mask + 11 Hoplites

Jump out, shoot, charge.

Yeah, thought that as well.Their shooting is very poor though. This is really a work in progress.

 Yoda79 wrote:
This has became a basic concept for me as ad mech. It's exactly where I consider Ad mech prevails above all else. Rerollomg all shots miss or hits making them a good all around threat vs anything hordish air and some options vs elite troops or even if need be wrath of Mars. It's range mortal wound with 36 range threat extreme!

Mars spearhead
Cawl
4 Dakkastelans
Icarus onager with stubber
Icarus onager with stubber

From this point on sure pure mech also possible but .

Superheavy knight detach +3 CP

2* warglaives to increase the threats with an all around knght even a paladin or a warden or what ever the case seems logical.

Why you can't tar pit all knight detach. You can effectively avoid and shooting and screening knights armigers and Robots. And most important you will never decide a target above all others.

You target knight you get the robots . You focus robots the knight party. And even if I love dragoons unless you got for a stygies battalion then I consider warglaives somewhat same role effective. Some shooting some melee.

Now how to get priests and transport in I don't know but I believe in a 1750 game I'd go for plasma troops with or without transport.
And try to get a priest + transport in my bigger list!

In the past, we were very limited in our options. It was pretty much Cawlstar + Dragoons + Basilisks, maybe with a Slam Battalion. Now we have Drills, Priests, and Knights to consider on top of that. It's really a lot to take in, and generally speaking, when the options become this diverse, we begin creating archetypes.

In any case, I think there are two right now, and it depends on which Forgeworld you are going with:

1) Stygies + Slam Command or Knights + Running Guards
2) Cawlstar + Slam Battalion + Basilisks

Stygies take two Enginseers for tax, then fill out with a mix of 4 Dragoons, Drills, 12 Priests, maybe 2x6 Vanguard (with 1 Plasma Caliver) and 11 Hoplites (with Mask on the Enginseer).
Slam Command is a BA Supreme Command detachment with Slamguinius + Mephiston + Techmarine or second Captain. That or Slamguinius + Lemartes + Techmarine or second Captain with 10-15 Death Company (Bolters and Chainswords, up to 3 Thunder Hammers).
Slam Battalion is a barebones BA Battalion Slamguinius + Mephiston + 3x5 Scouts
Running Guards are a barebones Valhallan Battalion with 2x Company Commander and 3x10 Infantry. Their job is essentially to MMM on the board to grab objectives and gun down enemy infantry.
Basilisks are a MT or Cadia Battalion with Company Commander + Primaris Psyker or second Company Commander, 3x10 Infantry
For Knights, you take Raven Crusader, Raven Castellan, Krast or Taranis Gallant/Warden/Errant, with an optional two Armigers

And maybe 3) Red Tide?

The big question mark for me though is how we're running Drills + Priests. How many Drills do we want? And do we want to bring Vanguard in units of 6 in case we don't want to put the Priests in?