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Thanks, I know I get lengthy when I write about something, sorry for the wall of text.

I've never been to a tournament so honestly my knowledge of the meta comes from forums and discussion with fellow hobbyists at my LGS. Still, I think we need to think about balancing AdMech within its own codex first before thinking about synergies with other armies, and that we do no need to compare our roster to other armies. For example, and I don't mean to start a debate, I believe Rangers are fine at 7 pts, that's what they're worth. Vanguards should cost the same. But yeah, if you compare to a 4 pts Guardsman, it is his cost that is too low and not the Ranger's who is too high. Same for Kabalites, they should be 7 pts.

40 pts for a Breacher is not far from its real worth. Forget about his weapons for a second and just look at it for its statline. 3W, T5, S5, 3+/6+, WS4+/BS4+, 3 A, Ld7. It is a tough nut to crack, and morale will rarely be an issue given the small unit sizes. The problem is we have no reason to take them because they're not a threat. We could place them on an objective in cover and they'll be hard to remove but they'll just be annoying as their damage output is risible.

Hydraulic claws need to have a chainfist profile if we want to justify the cost. No reason to pay 4 pts more than an Arc claw just to hit at S10 if it's to keep AP-1 and minus 1 to Hit and the inconsistent D3 damage. Arc claws need to be reworked like all Arc weapons as I wrote in my earlier post. I wish they'd give the Torsion cannon a special rule like the Termite Drill, where you roll successive dice rolls to try to keep inflict additional MWs if you successfully wound, first on a 2+, then 3+ etc. Now we have a threatening weapon and Breachers are good at breaching. It wouldn't be busted given the cost and the 4+ to Hit with a single shot, at 24".

I liked the idea of the Mindlock rule coming back giving them BS3+/WS3+ when near a Tech-Priest. Could give them the Ld9 too while we're at it, I still don't understand how Servitors can freak out anyway. They'd need to be near an HQ so I think it would still be fair. About Destroyers they could hit on a 2+ if used with Elimination Volley so I wonder if that might not be a bit much.

Servitors could be fixed if they gave a +1W repaired by a friendly Tech-Priest when he fixes a Vehicle while within 3" of him. Wouldn't be busted neither as you can easily shoot them, and it gives us a better staying power. Maybe limit it someway as you could have a +4 from the 4 Servitors (56 pts), a +1 from Necromechanic and fix twice stratagem. Though I'd sure love the look on my opponent's face when I tell him I just healed 10 wounds on my Dunecrawler.

Arquebuses could easily be lowered to 15-18, Rangers ain't so hard to kill.

Ruststalkers should have AP-1 base on top of their transsonic rules.

And I'd love for Onagers to be able to shoot twice if they didn't move more than half their move characteristic but that's a far away dream I guess

Tech-Priests Dominus's aura should be "Reroll all 1s to Hit for <Forge-World> units within 6" "that way Ryza could start being relevant, and so buff the Omniscient Mask to give full rerolls to Hit for friendly Skitarii in CC.

I think I'm done complaining for now

I think you touched on the core problem. It's not really points so much as the complete lack of synergy within our codex. Our units, dogmas, stratagems, WLTs, relics, etc. have rules that clash with one another or are totally useless.

If we fixed that, a lot of the point costs make sense. I mean, Guardsmen are amazing because they have a wealth of complements to choose from. I currently like running Catachans with Mini Priest and Straken because of the horde problem.

It's also a huge problem that all of our HQs are essentially the same unit, which come in S/M/L sizes.

Yes I'm quite sad at the HQ department. If you want to save points in a Batallion you run two Enginseers that cost 42 pts each you have HQs that only heal your units and will die to the first guy charging him. Then it's a bump to 125 for quite a polyvalent HQ that gives rerolls, is resilient, shoots well and fights decently, and Cawl at 240 pts that only helps Mars, shoots better, fights better and is more resilient than a Dominus.

I'd love for just a Skitarii Subdominus that gives rerolls 1s to Wound or something and costs 45 pts. He could have 3W, WS3+/BS3+ and equip Skitarii's weapon choices.

Servitors just need the mandatory cc weapon reviewed

Vanguard should be 7pts.and the weapon upgrades need a price reduction

Kataphrons destroyers are twice the price they should be

breachers as 1 modal units would be fine with a small reduction but as they are now probably a 25-30 range


Infiltrators need a small price reduction

Ruststalkers need somethink like AP3 ignore invuls. Basically a neich there are two many low level CC units that do their current job beter

Now stygies died electopriests need a price reduction

Secutarii need a forgeworld

Balistarii price reduction

Honestly I'd just be happy to see Metallica's trait affect more than 4 units in my entire codex. Pts reductions are welcome, especially for things like arquebuses and sicarians, but that still does nothing to address the fact that whoever wrote our codex had no idea how our army worked or even what the hell was in the book they were writing!

Why give me a trait that let's me fire assault and rapid fire weapons with 0 penalties when advancing if there are only 6 weapons in the entire codex (one being a relic) that can even use it? Why would I take the Adamantine fist for my Dominus if I can only get one swing from it when the relic axe does just as much damage with one less AP but swings 3 times? What is the point of servitors, who are supposed to be an iconic unit for us? In what world would you even consider the jezzails on Dragoons over the Lance? What would possess you to even consider taking arquebuses on vanguard when they can't even move and shoot, when last edition we could move and fire them with 0 penalties?

It just goes on and on. It's particularly frustrating when my other two main codexes I use are IG and Knights, codexes where you can tell the writer clearly played that army and understood what made it tick. When you open the IG codex, I can count on one hand the units that are so bad I ask myself "why on Earth would I take this?" And even then they're just bad for competitive and often fine for casual or narrative play where you can see what they were going for. With admech I'll look at entire units and struggle to come up with a scenario where I would actually run it.

On a completely different note, if the Onager is going to get thrown into every single box set we get, we really need rules for squadrons. That's how they could be taken in 7th and they're cheaper than Russe's. Considering they're one of our only true choices for anti armor and anti air in the codex it's ridiculous we can only take 3 of them.

Come to think of it, I'm starting to think whoever made this codex didn't even read the 7th Ed one. There are so many options and abilities we had in 7th that got removed for seemingly no reason. We can't even take a pure skitarii army anymore since we lost the option for a skitarii alpha, which are even stated to exist in the 8th Ed codex! I would definitely agree that our issues are far more deep-seated than points can fix. There are just so many little issues that make no sense.

Wish list

December the 15th can’t come soon enough. Fingers crossed we get some early Xmas cheer

I was all set to save up for a styrix, after all it looks like an admech knight, has cool weapons and rules. Then i realised for the points and half the money i can get 3 warglaives now im not so sure lol

You don't need to buy the entire Styrix. Just buy the upgrade kit.

Suzuteo wrote:
You don't need to buy the entire Styrix. Just buy the upgrade kit.

I don’t have a knight at all though lol. Imdont recall seeing an upgrade kit though, must have missed it. But still 500 points is 3 warglaives, am i getting 3 warglaives worth of knight? I mean i need to hold off until the 15th til i do anything but its something i feel i need to consider. Though the styrix does look awesome as well compared to the other more mundane looking knights lol

Suzuteo wrote:
You don't need to buy the entire Styrix. Just buy the upgrade kit.

There is an upgrade kit?

I saw them on eBay. Anyhow, I just looked it up, and they could be people doing something shady. *Whistles*

Yeah, those "upgrade kits" are definitely recasts.

Does anyone have any of these? because an officially legit bought full plastic knight is like 60 quid, but a legit bought styrix is 125. I dont see where the extra cost comes, so i'm less bothered about prucuring parts elsewhere if you cant tell the difference.

Octovol wrote:
Does anyone have any of these? because an officially legit bought full plastic knight is like 60 quid, but a legit bought styrix is 125. I dont see where the extra cost comes, so i'm less bothered about prucuring parts elsewhere if you cant tell the difference.

Forge World premium. Pay more for less and worse.

Suzuteo wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Does anyone have any of these? because an officially legit bought full plastic knight is like 60 quid, but a legit bought styrix is 125. I dont see where the extra cost comes, so i'm less bothered about prucuring parts elsewhere if you cant tell the difference.

Forge World premium. Pay more for less and worse.

Although the alternative is having viable FW units and everyone complains about a useful part of their list being locked behind an absurd paywall, Warhammer being pay-to-win, FW units needing to be blanket banned, etc.

I dont mind paying more, but when the styrix is essentially the same thing but with a different carapace and weapons even if everyone one of those weapons cost double that of the plastic ones to produce it all still sat on the same plastic base. £100 would be more reasonable but still a premium item.

Anyway, i’m probably going to get one. Just sticks in my throat a little when i can essentially get 4 warglaives/helverins for half the cost of a styrix and 3 of those warglaives are the same points value as a styrix.

I might be misremembering, but did Ruststalkers lose an attack apiece or was it only Infiltrators?

I have been editing my PDF copy of my AdMech codex and just realized that the attack values are correct.

Its still more cost effective than a unit of 6 dragoons. 40k isnt a budget game. Less options is generally worse.

Suzuteo wrote:
I might be misremembering, but did Ruststalkers lose an attack apiece or was it only Infiltrators?

I have been editing my PDF copy of my AdMech codex and just realized that the attack values are correct.

Only Infiltrators, 2A each and 3 for the Princeps.

Suzuteo wrote:
I might be misremembering, but did Ruststalkers lose an attack apiece or was it only Infiltrators?

I have been editing my PDF copy of my AdMech codex and just realized that the attack values are correct.

I'm fairly sure it was only Ruststalkers and their Princeps that lost an attack, going from 3/4 respectively to 2/3 but now I'm looking for it in our FAQ I can't seem to find it.

It was the Index: Imperium 2 FAQ if I remember right, and they corrected it when printing the codex.

Octovol wrote:
Does anyone have any of these? because an officially legit bought full plastic knight is like 60 quid, but a legit bought styrix is 125. I dont see where the extra cost comes, so i'm less bothered about prucuring parts elsewhere if you cant tell the difference.

Plastic is mass produced automatically. You press a button and wait and hey presto you have bunch of sprues with essentially free material. Resin is hand cast from more expensive material. They actually have to pay for worker time(I presume you don't work for free either) unlike with plastic where nobody is actually doing any casting by hand.

 Aaranis wrote:
It was the Index: Imperium 2 FAQ if I remember right, and they corrected it when printing the codex.

Thanks, you're absolutely correct. I've had it in my head the whole time we've had a codex that Ruststalkers have one less attack than their datasheet shows. Thankfully it's never mattered because they haven't seen the fight phase once this whole time

xlDuke wrote:
Thanks, you're absolutely correct. I've had it in my head the whole time we've had a codex that Ruststalkers have one less attack than their datasheet shows. Thankfully it's never mattered because they haven't seen the fight phase once this whole time

Yeah I tried playing them at first, even with Ryza they're terrible. Only one game where I got lucky and they were killy. Otherwise I ran the maths and for a min unit with chordclaws + razors they dish an average of 2 MWs with all their attacks, with rerolls of 1 to Hit. The 8-ish wounds remaining have to go through armour saves. If you roll all 5s to Wound you essentially have wasted your Fight phase with them.

They really need AP-1 and a slight point reduction.

 Aaranis wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Thanks, you're absolutely correct. I've had it in my head the whole time we've had a codex that Ruststalkers have one less attack than their datasheet shows. Thankfully it's never mattered because they haven't seen the fight phase once this whole time

Yeah I tried playing them at first, even with Ryza they're terrible. Only one game where I got lucky and they were killy. Otherwise I ran the maths and for a min unit with chordclaws + razors they dish an average of 2 MWs with all their attacks, with rerolls of 1 to Hit. The 8-ish wounds remaining have to go through armour saves. If you roll all 5s to Wound you essentially have wasted your Fight phase with them.

They really need AP-1 and a slight point reduction.

They're a far cry from their 7th edition incarnation (which also wasn't great), we could definitely do with getting some AP back on their attacks in addition to the mortal wounds, even if only when they charge/are charged. I've found that at least the Infiltrators can deepstrike for no CP cost and get a round of flechette blasters off or easily capture an objective. The only thing they have going for them is a decent move stat, but advancing Vanguard are similarly mobile and have the advantage of assault ranged weapons.

Admech are definitely getting a formation in the new Vigilus book, would something similar to what orks got (mostly ways for them to be more effective in and against vehicles) be enough to make them a little bit more effective or will it be a useless buff?

 kastelen wrote:
Admech are definitely getting a formation in the new Vigilus book, would something similar to what orks got (mostly ways for them to be more effective in and against vehicles) be enough to make them a little bit more effective or will it be a useless buff?

Hard to say, I believe we don't really know what kind of bonus it will give yet ? I don't know what the Orks got.

We need core changes to the book and point adjustments, there's basically 2 kinds of lists to play AdMech seriously and none of them are made with Kataphrons. I'm really more and more eager to see CA2018 and the lack of leaks lately gets me more and more frustrated. I'm tired of losing games because I play the best out of my collection but still lose to regular Guard lists or optimised Tau. And I'd like to be able to play something else than 5 Kastelans because I only own 2 so far, and I'd love a CC list with punchy bots.

 Aaranis wrote:

 kastelen wrote:
Admech are definitely getting a formation in the new Vigilus book, would something similar to what orks got (mostly ways for them to be more effective in and against vehicles) be enough to make them a little bit more effective or will it be a useless buff?

Hard to say, I believe we don't really know what kind of bonus it will give yet ? I don't know what the Orks got.

We need core changes to the book and point adjustments, there's basically 2 kinds of lists to play AdMech seriously and none of them are made with Kataphrons. I'm really more and more eager to see CA2018 and the lack of leaks lately gets me more and more frustrated. I'm tired of losing games because I play the best out of my collection but still lose to regular Guard lists or optimised Tau. And I'd like to be able to play something else than 5 Kastelans because I only own 2 so far, and I'd love a CC list with punchy bots.

I sometimes use kataphrons for elimination protocol and because their plasma can be really good if you roll well.

Yes I have one unit with plasma that I use the same way with my two bots, it's great to kill a specific unit with safe plasma if you get lucky on the number of shots. But it's hardly competitive. Against the 3 Riptides list I faced the other day (though it was with my Dark Angels) the Riptides would have laughed at it with their 3++ and billions of drones.

tneva82 wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Does anyone have any of these? because an officially legit bought full plastic knight is like 60 quid, but a legit bought styrix is 125. I dont see where the extra cost comes, so i'm less bothered about prucuring parts elsewhere if you cant tell the difference.

Plastic is mass produced automatically. You press a button and wait and hey presto you have bunch of sprues with essentially free material. Resin is hand cast from more expensive material. They actually have to pay for worker time(I presume you don't work for free either) unlike with plastic where nobody is actually doing any casting by hand.

I dont believe for one second that they hand pour the resin into moulds for every FW model. They wouldn't be in business still if that were the case, the cost would be way way higher than currently. Again I can justify an extra cost for manufacturer and material differences, but the difference is just so out of whack in some cases it's hard to swallow.