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 Aaranis wrote:

Arlen wrote:Instead of a small detachment for Ryza I would think you should build more around their stratagem and dogma instead. The Destroyers are in this case are the powerhouse of a Ryza army, but there is more to add to such an army. An cool idea I have been toying with for a while is serveral drills with each 10 Vanguard inside of them with calivers for a shooty backline drop. Infiltrators are also good with the Ryza dogma and a lot cheaper right now. I think I might try some stuff with a full on Ryza list with Destroyers, Vanguard, Dragoons and Infiltrators. Maybe throw in a Valiant for some more close quarter action.

I already had quite a lot of Robots and Kataphrons, now I might just buy even more

The Drill can contain 12 models, go balls-out with 2 squads of 6 with 2 Calivers each: 8 plasma shots + 24 radium shots ! Then you try to throw your Drills in CC to occupy the dangerous stuff. I like that plan. Honestly I love Drills but I'll never buy a 100+€ model who can be banned at tournaments or nerfed to the ground because FW is as unstable as 7th edition's plasma.

I just need 2 more Dakkabots and 4 Fistybots, 3 more plasma Destroyers and I'd be set for a while.

deffrekka wrote:I think the problem with Agripinaa is that it doesn't boast the durability of non-kataphron units, so where as people said they wouldnt go Ryza as they loose out on the defensive dogmas of other Forge Worlds, here is the same problem. And whilst the Agripinaa relic is actually pretty sweet (to be honest i forgot that it existed!!! ) you will pretty much have to sprint that Enginseer up the field to get the benefits. Now that isnt a huge problem but he may not reach his target to relay the re'roll 1's to wound for you anti tank elements vs that target.

So i think Ryza and Agripinaa are in the same boat, both lack durability (except recycling some destroyers for Agripinaa) compared to Stygies VIII, Lucius and Graia, both may never get their Dogmas off at all (if you face another shooty list, or they have something that ignores overwatch and obliterates you so you cant get to fight back) and both have bad warlord traits in that they dont benefit their army, just themselves.

Now i do like the Xi-Lecum Eye as we are basically getting a Lieutanent vs a single unit but its a matter of getting it by your chosen enemy vehicle turn 1 onwards which may prove troublesome an a suicide mission for that character and its support squads.

I believe a 5++ Overwatch counts as a defensive option but I get that Stygies VIII, Graia and Lucius are more reliable and versatile. In the case where we're running Agripinaa it would be solely to build around Kataphrons, like we build Mars lists around Dakkastelans or Stygies lists around Dragoons/Fulgurites.

Ryza benefit Destroyers and Vanguard immensely with the stratagem + Servitor Maniple, but it could work as an army if building a bit around the Dogma too. What benefits the most of rerolling 1s to Wound in CC are Fulgurites and Ruststalkers, and the latter are now 15 pts/model.

Xi-Lecum's Eye would work when said Vehicles are coming your way or if playing a mobile gunline list but that's not really usual indeed.

Speaking of mobile gunlines, let us not forget that we essentially ignore Heavy penalties, with the discounts on Destroyers, Cognis Flamers and Incendine Combustors, walking in the face of the opponent short-range style might be worth thinking about. It gives more board control, and dares the opponent to charge your flamers or suffer them nonetheless in the Shooting phase. With Agripinaa who lose nothing at breaking the distance compared to Stygies this might be a valuable tactic, and increases the use of Xi-Lecum's Eye in doing so. I'll try building a list in that style for curiosity, with 6 Destroyers with flamers, Robots with Combustors and Aegis, and a few Servitors to feed the Kataphrons.

On a side note I'm glad to be back in this thread. I left for a while when it became Tactica Imperial Knights + Soup but these changes are worth the comeback.

Haha i know the feeling! Ive been out of this thread and using Admech since May! Was going to start up with my 11 year old ork army then chapter approved spat in their face with the cost reductions other armies got. The two Admech Specialist Detachments drew me back, and the pts drops was surprising and hobby enhancing!

What i meant by having less defensive dogmas is that they can be avoided entirely and thats for both Agripinaa and Ryza. They both rely on combat to be triggered and nowadays there are alot of tricks people can pull off to mitigate the two dogmas. Things like the Vexator Mask and Angels Wing will negate over watch entirely, then there is psychic powers like mass hypnosis and others like it that do the same. Then there are pile in/consolidate moves that can avoid overwatch and lock our units in CC, all they have to do is charge say those servitors and cartwheel into the Kataphrons. And then things charging Rzya units will usually obliterate our models so we wont get to re-roll 1's to hit in CC (which is also redundant due to chant of the remorseless fist).

So yeah they are kind of Pseudo defensive traits, which the same can be said for Stygies VIII and Lucius, however chances are you will get to use both of those dogmas alot more than the previous two. In a shooting phase ruled game i think Rzya truimphs vs Agripinaa. The raw damage is better (in a strictly Destroyer sense), they wound all T7 vehicles on a 2+ then T8 on a 3+ and they loose just as many models to shooting as Agripinaa. Yes they have Flesh Converts, but im more on about there potential damage from the get go.

Now im not saying Agripinaa is worse by any means; i just think between the two, Rzya Destroyers will kill what you want dead. But where i agree with you is in the sense of heavy grav cannons and cognis flamers. As Agripinaa, these murderbots will roast and trash compact any light/medium unit they touch, like eldar and dark eldar like you said before. 30 BS 2 rerolling 1's str 5 ap 3 shots is quite good and with d3 damage vs 3+ save models they become just like dark eldar disintegrator cannons (just d3 damage instead of 2). Pushing these boys up the field like you said would be a scary prospect, and the benefit of overwatch on 5s and 6s suddenly adds up, especially with the cognis flamers too. And if tehy get depleted abit, regen then back with Flesh Converts and defend your deployment late game.

In conclusion thats where i think the two forge worlds differ, Rzya is for plasma + phoshor destroyers / Agripinaa for heavy grav + cognis flamers. Each excels massively in that field compared to other Forge Worlds.

It feels so good to be debating Admech strats with guys like you again gets my inner Magos going again!!!

Orks are still great too

 Aaranis wrote:

On a side note I'm glad to be back in this thread. I left for a while when it became Tactica Imperial Knights + Soup but these changes are worth the comeback.

Ohw yeah, the last few pages have been a joy to add upon.

I think there is still a place for Knights in an admech list, but I am so glad that right now we got the options and synergy to build a powerfull mono-build that can can hold a lot better out on its own then ever before.

I think i'm gonna try out a brigade with the new point costs and see how far I can stretch it. Getting those 15 command points will be alot easier right now with a lot more to play around with.
Also the new chapter approved missions seem to have a lot of updated rules and throwbacks to deployment of 7th, which might also shift something in the meta or atleast the local meta if you play with them (I know I will).

 axisofentropy wrote:
Orks are still great too

Yeah they are, but over priced. They dont look like theyve been done with CA in mind. For Example: Heavy Flamer 14 / Skorcha 17. Powerfist 8-9 / Powerklaw 13. Chainfist 11 / Killsaw 15. Plasmagun 11 / rokkit launcha 12. A guardsmen with a flamer is 10pts, a vet with one is 11pts, a burna boy is 12pts and is vastly worse in comparison.

Anyway i wont go on with my laments of ork blues in a admech thread XD

Wulfey wrote:
I think this discussion is missing the fact that Onagers went down 20 points. 3x icarus onagers should be in every admech list ever. They are comically point efficient. The basic STYGIES TPD/Engi/3xRangers/3xIcarus battalion went down ~107 points.

EDIT: from my read on the leaks, I think putting knights in with majority admech is dead. There are too many good power combos in admech right now to waste payload points on knights. However, min admech battalions have now become better helpers to majority MECHANICUS knight lists than min guard battalions.

oh there is no way We forgot this. In fact, the new servitor maniple made onagers even better, as now we have a more reliable "Finisher" with the servitors for when our neutron lasers fail to do major damage. sure it costs CP's,but what doesn't in 8th? line up a shot with a neutron laser or two, then shoot plasma at something until it is fully destroyed, ensuring kills wherever we need them. and now this tactic is even better, as we can heal these guys better and even bring them back at the cost of regular servitors. only downside is that the tech priests will be more important now than ever if you want to reliably put plasma where you need it.

I'm still going to be putting my knight in with my admech, especially with armigers to support and act as a counter charging unit. Knight still brings a lot of versatility, and is basically a free heavy support choice in an auxiliary without taking up room for bots or for onagers.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
I think this discussion is missing the fact that Onagers went down 20 points. 3x icarus onagers should be in every admech list ever. They are comically point efficient. The basic STYGIES TPD/Engi/3xRangers/3xIcarus battalion went down ~107 points.

EDIT: from my read on the leaks, I think putting knights in with majority admech is dead. There are too many good power combos in admech right now to waste payload points on knights. However, min admech battalions have now become better helpers to majority MECHANICUS knight lists than min guard battalions.

oh there is no way We forgot this. In fact, the new servitor maniple made onagers even better, as now we have a more reliable "Finisher" with the servitors for when our neutron lasers fail to do major damage. sure it costs CP's,but what doesn't in 8th? line up a shot with a neutron laser or two, then shoot plasma at something until it is fully destroyed, ensuring kills wherever we need them. and now this tactic is even better, as we can heal these guys better and even bring them back at the cost of regular servitors. only downside is that the tech priests will be more important now than ever if you want to reliably put plasma where you need it.

I'm still going to be putting my knight in with my admech, especially with armigers to support and act as a counter charging unit. Knight still brings a lot of versatility, and is basically a free heavy support choice in an auxiliary without taking up room for bots or for onagers.

I would personally open up with the Destroyers first. Spread out the shots vs targets as required or focus fire vs one unit, then use the Onagers vs those damaged units to finish them off. For example lets say there are 3 leman russes you want dead, split the shots into 3! 2d6 there, 2d6 here and another 2d6 for you. if each one does about 4 - 6 damage (or 3-9 damage as Ryza) those onagers will now have a much easier time atleast dealing out 6 damage or out right killing it. Although im quite lucky with my Neutronagers!!! They are famed in my group The guys say "Apples or Onagers" when they compare their AT choices vs my little crab walkers

 deffrekka wrote:


I would personally open up with the Destroyers first. Spread out the shots vs targets as required or focus fire vs one unit, then use the Onagers vs those damaged units to finish them off. For example lets say there are 3 leman russes you want dead, split the shots into 3! 2d6 there, 2d6 here and another 2d6 for you. if each one does about 4 - 6 damage (or 3-9 damage as Ryza) those onagers will now have a much easier time atleast dealing out 6 damage or out right killing it. Although im quite lucky with my Neutronagers!!! They are famed in my group The guys say "Apples or Onagers" when they compare their AT choices vs my little crab walkers

either or works, really! I just have absolutely terrible luck with wounding (by heavens I want a lieutenant for admech. it would save me so many headaches that I have every game. I usually have to devote two to really injur a tank because my dice are bad, though there are games where they are gods (I still am proud of them for one shotting a tyranid prime) but usually I need some follow ups to them rather than the other way around. It usually works though, and they provide such great firepower!

My best shot was 17 wounds off an Exocrine with a single Neutron Laser. Been a long time since it did something significant though.

I still like Icarus in this meta. Even tho there are knights, if you run against a knight player he will 100% rotate ion shields if you use that neutron. And if orks become a thing ... poor poor neutron. Eldar are 50%+ of the top tables right now so icarus at 110 points is really the go to.

EDIT: what I am trying to think through now is how to make a basic admech artillery line work in light of the wave of new fast melee threats (ORKS with 2d6 consolidates, etc). I think admech needs to start bringing a whole lot more bodies. Either you need to keep bringing the loyal 32 guardsmen as just more bodies or you need to buy a whole lot more boxes of rangers. If you make a list that has like 1000 points of serious servitor or kastelan firepower, all of that can be negated by terrain or fast melee and 'trapping' tricks where you consolidate into another unit and pin 1 model by basing at 3 points.

Right now a dakkabot is 110 points.
An onager is 110 points.
And two grav/plasma destroyers are about 102/96 points. But they need 4 point servitors for every 2 so they come out to be very similar in points.

I am kind of thinking that the MARS artillery line could actually be most of points into kataphrons and rely on CAWL's rerolls and the detachment tricks to keep the servitors healthier than they should be. Then spend the rest of the points on bodies and CP.

Wulfey wrote:
I still like Icarus in this meta. Even tho there are knights, if you run against a knight player he will 100% rotate ion shields if you use that neutron. And if orks become a thing ... poor poor neutron. Eldar are 50%+ of the top tables right now so icarus at 110 points is really the go to.

EDIT: what I am trying to think through now is how to make a basic admech artillery line work in light of the wave of new fast melee threats (ORKS with 2d6 consolidates, etc). I think admech needs to start bringing a whole lot more bodies. Either you need to keep bringing the loyal 32 guardsmen as just more bodies or you need to buy a whole lot more boxes of rangers. If you make a list that has like 1000 points of serious servitor or kastelan firepower, all of that can be negated by terrain or fast melee and 'trapping' tricks where you consolidate into another unit and pin 1 model by basing at 3 points.

Right now a dakkabot is 110 points.
An onager is 110 points.
And two grav/plasma destroyers are about 102/96 points. But they need 4 point servitors for every 2 so they come out to be very similar in points.

I am kind of thinking that the MARS artillery line could actually be most of points into kataphrons and rely on CAWL's rerolls and the detachment tricks to keep the servitors healthier than they should be. Then spend the rest of the points on bodies and CP.

if there are several knights nothing is stopping you from faking out one. Target one with a neutron laser, go "oh noooooooooooo" when he rotates ion shields, then blow up another one when he cannot use the strat anymore, or target something else if there is only one knight. At best he fails all his rolls anyways for the first shot, and at worst he loses a command point. granted I am not one to talk as I made a foolish decision in a game and devoted all fire power to a magera w/ a 3++, but eh, no one is perfect. pplus, it's easier said on paper, so this tactic may not work out

The melee thing is something I didn't think up, and would require some thought to counter. I have not fought against this kind of list, so I have no comment besides "Shoot them! Shoot them faster!" and hope a knight crusader can river dance on them while skitarii provide buffers.

In case anyone missed it the Magaera went down to 380pts, which is a 60pt erduction. Still 40pts more than a styrix though and i cannot fathom why.

Until the details of that servitor maniple i had a pretty clear thought where i was going with my army next, now i’m not so sure. I must admit to being a bit confused by everyone’s statements of what can and cant do now without qualifying where this new option is coming from. There are so many nuances that until i can see everything on paper in front of me that i dont think i can fully appreciate what everyone is getting in a tiz over.

So far i’ve gathered that the maniple allows us to bring back kataphrons at the cost of a servitor with a WT (and field commander for 1cp we can give any character that trait) which is great. Except if there’s a model thats not on full wounds we cant, could be difficult to repair to full in order to use the trait to revive one; Enginseers can only repair vehicles, so that leaves tpd and cawl to do the job.

another maniple strategm allows us to give a unit of servitors +1 to hit, which combined with some nearby robots for a total of 3cp gives them +2 to hit. The only thing i dont like about this is the positional requirements of keeping all our robots and destroyers in one place paints a huge target.

Off the back of that i havent quite seen what allows us to switch robot protocol instantly without binharic override meaning we can take advantage of the metalica wt along with the vigilus strat to fallback and still fire.

Emotionless clarity with the vigilus strat kind makes that pointless though, 1cp to switch weapons to assault and then fire them all in combat we probably dont want to fall back.

I definitely feel like a i need to see everything new in one document somewhere, all the formations, wt, relics, strategms etc. Without people paraphrasing them. Without the context i find it really difficult to figure out how i would factor it into one of my lists.

You're right, we still need to be able to protect all that. Pure AdMech requires the cheapest: Rangers. I'm thinking of always going by units of 7-8 from now on to be able to take a few casualties but not get screwed too much in Morale. Always keep your Skitarii within 6" of your Onagers guys, free +1 Ld ! I wish they'd made Vanguards 7 pts as well, they're way better screeners with their better Overwatch and bonus debuff aura.

I don't see the link between Neutron and Orks, they don't have vehicles with 4++ I believe ? But yeah my Icarus got better. I used one last time against Drukhari at 1000 pts and boy did he made it a priority. Seriously hurt the Raiders and wrecked the Reavers.

Now if they could remove the rule of 3 for Onagers I could start dreaming about my Onager Death Squad of 3 Beamers, 2 Icarus and 2 Neutrons.

Speaking of that, I guess the Cognis Stubbers are auto-take now, 2 pts instead of 5 is really juicy.

If CC hordes become to much of a problem, I think metallica would be a grand solution to make sure our gunlines keep working. Additionally I just might sneak in a Hawkshroud Valiant into my list for that fantastic overwatch strat.
How cool is it to see orks charging your skitarii gunline and suddenly a knight with a flamethrower the size of a flat steps in and roasts them all.

 Aaranis wrote:
My best shot was 17 wounds off an Exocrine with a single Neutron Laser. Been a long time since it did something significant though.

My best was one shotting a plagueburst crawl at full health! The guy fired at me first and did about 5 wounds, i healed 4 and then returned fire back at it, and his face after it omg!!! apples and oangers people, apples and onagers (moral of the story always take oangers kids!!!)

 Aaranis wrote:
You're right, we still need to be able to protect all that. Pure AdMech requires the cheapest: Rangers. I'm thinking of always going by units of 7-8 from now on to be able to take a few casualties but not get screwed too much in Morale. Always keep your Skitarii within 6" of your Onagers guys, free +1 Ld !

A 60pt balistarii also conveys the same bonus if you need to spread out or your objectives are too far from your onagers

I just read the Beta Stygies Infiltration rule again and it's sadder than I thought, can't even end our move closer than 9" from the enemy. Stygies Dragoons/Fistelans are really gone. The trait have not changed though, so it still is a reliable defense and I believe I'll use my 3 Dragoons as screen turn 1, they're really large and can suffer a horde.

Also Octovol's comment made me realise Enginseers couldn't repair all AdMech units, it's disheartening. Not that mine repaired anything else than Onagers though but still, for the Servitor Maniple I'll have to employ my Dominus to fix the Destroyers.

 Aaranis wrote:
You're right, we still need to be able to protect all that. Pure AdMech requires the cheapest: Rangers. I'm thinking of always going by units of 7-8 from now on to be able to take a few casualties but not get screwed too much in Morale. Always keep your Skitarii within 6" of your Onagers guys, free +1 Ld ! I wish they'd made Vanguards 7 pts as well, they're way better screeners with their better Overwatch and bonus debuff aura.

I don't see the link between Neutron and Orks, they don't have vehicles with 4++ I believe ? But yeah my Icarus got better. I used one last time against Drukhari at 1000 pts and boy did he made it a priority. Seriously hurt the Raiders and wrecked the Reavers.

Now if they could remove the rule of 3 for Onagers I could start dreaming about my Onager Death Squad of 3 Beamers, 2 Icarus and 2 Neutrons.

Speaking of that, I guess the Cognis Stubbers are auto-take now, 2 pts instead of 5 is really juicy.

This reply goes to everyone not just you Aaranis haha I think we can chaff out our lines with 3 squads of 4 servitors. To begin with thats just 60pts barebones, then they fill out our elite slots (if your going brigade), next they help regen destroyers, they also cap points effectively (they have nothing else to do), easy to hide, still take up board space and push out deepstrikers and scout/infiltrators so give us some board control back, have LD 9 next to a Tech-Priest and finally turn 1 they have a 3+ save vs shooting. Yes they will give first blood if we go second but they are tougher to remove than 10 guardsmen and they do more for us now. Yeah they dont shoot or do anything fancy but thats there whole existance. If they shoot them that saves other infantry models in our list.

Next we have our basic skitarii troopers, yes they arent as efficient as guardsmen but they ignore cover (omnispex) have a 3+ 6++ save turn 1 and have actual good shooting, then get the same points as above.

I wouldnt be scared of a kult of speed list. 12 bikes moving 32" and then charging might sound scary but they are glass cannons. They cant avoid overwatch like other races can. And ork warbosses on bikes are fire and forget missiles, yeah they hurt alot but then hes dead after.... the wartrike is a less strong version. Use the terrain to your advantage, if hes all vehicles and bikes he cant charge the 1st floor of ruins. Create bottlenecks. Take either Graia or Metalica. 30 Da Jumped Boys wont kill 4+ kastellans and onagers. Use those 2 forge worlds if you anticipate going against fast close combat armies.

Reaver jetbikes and slaanesh armies have been a thing for a while and if you do fine vs them, youll be fine vs orkz. Advice from a veteran ork player who plays evil sunz, bad moons and deathskulls.

Wulfey wrote:
I think this discussion is missing the fact that Onagers went down 20 points. 3x icarus onagers should be in every admech list ever. They are comically point efficient. The basic STYGIES TPD/Engi/3xRangers/3xIcarus battalion went down ~107 points.

EDIT: from my read on the leaks, I think putting knights in with majority admech is dead. There are too many good power combos in admech right now to waste payload points on knights. However, min admech battalions have now become better helpers to majority MECHANICUS knight lists than min guard battalions.

Too many Icarus Dunecrawlers leaves you with the issue of T8 vehicles. We have plenty of good S6 and S7 weapons in the rest of the army, but the only two non-Knight units that are inherently good at dealing with Russes and all the other heavy tanks at range are Neutron Crawlers and Lascannon Ironstrider chickens, with the latter being being pretty easy to focus down iy themselves.

Sure, you can run Knights, overcharging Destroyers or Mars mortal wound spam, but all of these have weaknesses and drawbacks or can be countered (and literally everyone will expect an Admech player to use Cawl+Dakkabot spam and pretty much everyone expects Knights).

Sure, 3x Icarus is great if you end up playing against Tau or Eldar, but what if you have to face Super Heavies (say, a Shadowsword or three) or a tank company? What if the other player has no flyers at all? I'd take at least one Neutron crab for the sake of versatility, especially because you will only be able to buff one Icarus crab with Protector Doctrina if there aren't any good fliers to shoot. Overloading those targets with dakka can work, but wounding on 5's always means that only 33% of you hits actually wound. Price is not a real issue either, a neutron crab is only 5 points more expensive than an Icarus crab with a stubber.
I plan on bringing 2 Neutron and 1 Icarus crab in my future 900+ point lists, in a pinch Dakkabots, the cheap arc rifles I like sprinkling into all my Ranger units and even a Dominus can help if someone spams too many T5/T6 vehicles.

Also Neutron Crawlers can bring two extremely cheap stubbers with them rather than one, so they do provide a good amount of long ranged anti-infantry firepower as well (and popping the Cognis Overwatch strat can do some nice damage with them).

Wulfey wrote:

EDIT: what I am trying to think through now is how to make a basic admech artillery line work in light of the wave of new fast melee threats (ORKS with 2d6 consolidates, etc). I think admech needs to start bringing a whole lot more bodies. Either you need to keep bringing the loyal 32 guardsmen as just more bodies or you need to buy a whole lot more boxes of rangers. If you make a list that has like 1000 points of serious servitor or kastelan firepower, all of that can be negated by terrain or fast melee and 'trapping' tricks where you consolidate into another unit and pin 1 model by basing at 3 points.

Which won't get better when Genestealers will get a Codex ;-)
But I don't think that Bodies is the way to screen tbh, because it is just so easy to trap a unit. We have many models with huge bases like Crawlers or a unit of Dragoons. Hell, you could even use the new cheap AC chicken.

In my last tournament i attended in May i went up against a full slaanesh daemons army. The guy was a very good tournament player having won previous tournaments. The whole god damn army locked me in CC turn 1, i didnt get a single full shooting phase.

Yes i lost all my infantry but my vehicles? End of turn 6 they were all still there. I had my datasmith smack heralds around like he was a pimp. Every turn he killed a herald and shot a seeker with his gamma pistol. My enginseers fought like champions, decapitating seekers and daemonettes left right and centre. My dominus hacked apart exalted chariots. Kastellans knowing they cant shoot, went full double attacks mode and went to town on daemons until they were knee deep in gore. Onagers pinched there way out of CC to throw neutron shots at other chariots and a winged daemon prince. Stray heavy stubber shots cleared 10 he-she squads off his home objectives.

I had a 5 man stubber and power sword infiltrator squad squatting in a ruin making sure a daemon prince couldnt charge and continued to pepper him to 1 wound until they fell to smites. My Dragoons charged in like demi-gods, whole sale slaughtering whole squads of seekers.

In the end after the blood was cleaned away from optical arrays and sensors, it was a draw 10-10. I had my dominus still alive at full health, 4 kastellans, 2 onagers (1 at 9 wounds the other at 2), a datasmith with 1 whole wound and 2 cheeky rangers left. He had a Daemon prince with 1 wound hiding, a keeper of secrets in the far corner and a single 10 lady squad of daemonettes. Everything else laid in bloody heeps at the feet on my army.

He won the tournament and i got 3rd place out of 32. Dont give up if your line gets compremised. We may not be a CC army, but we arent as defenceless as other gunlines, and we sure dont crawl up and die like tau.

Ive had kastellans in CC with custodes, ive had an onager on 3 wounds pinch the last wound off a shield captain on jetbike in close combat, ive had crawl steam roll a khorne daemon prince with a pair of talons and wings in CC and ate his heart infront of the shocked khorne beserkers faces.

I have seen many people give up when things dont go there way, but a bit of luck and unorthodox tactics can pull victory from defeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
I think this discussion is missing the fact that Onagers went down 20 points. 3x icarus onagers should be in every admech list ever. They are comically point efficient. The basic STYGIES TPD/Engi/3xRangers/3xIcarus battalion went down ~107 points.

EDIT: from my read on the leaks, I think putting knights in with majority admech is dead. There are too many good power combos in admech right now to waste payload points on knights. However, min admech battalions have now become better helpers to majority MECHANICUS knight lists than min guard battalions.

Too many Icarus Dunecrawlers leaves you with the issue of T8 vehicles. We have plenty of good S6 and S7 weapons in the rest of the army, but the only two non-Knight units that are inherently good at dealing with Russes and all the other heavy tanks at range are Neutron Crawlers and Lascannon Ironstrider chickens, with the latter being being pretty easy to focus down iy themselves.

Sure, you can run Knights, overcharging Destroyers or Mars mortal wound spam, but all of these have weaknesses and drawbacks or can be countered (and literally everyone will expect an Admech player to use Cawl+Dakkabot spam and pretty much everyone expects Knights).

Sure, 3x Icarus is great if you end up playing against Tau or Eldar, but what if you have to face Super Heavies (say, a Shadowsword or three) or a tank company? What if the other player has no flyers at all? I'd take at least one Neutron crab for the sake of versatility, especially because you will only be able to buff one Icarus crab with Protector Doctrina if there aren't any good fliers to shoot. Overloading those targets with dakka can work, but wounding on 5's always means that only 33% of you hits actually wound. Price is not a real issue either, a neutron crab is only 5 points more expensive than an Icarus crab with a stubber.
I plan on bringing 2 Neutron and 1 Icarus crab in my future 900+ point lists, in a pinch Dakkabots, the cheap arc rifles I like sprinkling into all my Ranger units and even a Dominus can help if someone spams too many T5/T6 vehicles.

Also Neutron Crawlers can bring two extremely cheap stubbers with them rather than one, so they do provide a good amount of long ranged anti-infantry firepower as well (and popping the Cognis Overwatch strat can do some nice damage with them).

I fully whole heartedly agree with you Ragnar. I have always brought 2 Neutron lasers in 8th, and sometimes 3. I have never wished to have an icarus array in any of my games, and when i did try it out, i felt like it just didnt have teeth compared to the neutron. People fear the neutron laser, its one of kind in the anti-tank world. It has a psychological aspect aswell as a damage dealing aspect. People want the damn thing dead. If they fail, its going to get healed up and get vengeance. If it strikes first, it will either serverly cripple its target or send it to the shadow realm with a bitter sweet kiss good night.

The Master of Bioslicing combos right into the Appri Strategem. You knock out the last dude in a squad, bring back one in another squad, and finally use your CP to bring back the dead squad?

 Arlen wrote:
If CC hordes become to much of a problem, I think metallica would be a grand solution to make sure our gunlines keep working. Additionally I just might sneak in a Hawkshroud Valiant into my list for that fantastic overwatch strat.
How cool is it to see orks charging your skitarii gunline and suddenly a knight with a flamethrower the size of a flat steps in and roasts them all.

Is it weird that I'm planning on mostly keeping my Kastelan in aegis mode and sprinting around the table? Lots of my opponents are things like eldar or Raven guard so they tend to be slippery and hide. The traditional play of slapping them in doubletap mode and breaking their legs just doesn't cut it for me much. With Metallica I can potentially move them 14" a turn to get them inside the -1 range and light them up.

With the new robot formation, my Metallica bots can sprint around being super aggressive up the midfield. I can keep the Dominus easily within 9" if I feel the need to shunt them into double tap mode and provide reroll 1's, as well as potentially run two 3 strong units of kataphrons that are spread out a bit to give me the option of an elimination volley. With 3-4 bots that I'm planning on running, they'll be hell to remove, and if you charge them big whoop, I'll just fall back my turn and shoot you again if played right. I also have a Valhallans guard army that would pair extremely well with this since their infantry can fire into friendly combat, giving me options to break robots out of tri locking if need be.

Even if I run pure Metallica though, between neutron Onagers, vastly improved destoryers, super mobile tanky Kastelan, and very aggressive plasma vanguard, I think I can make a super aggressive shooting army with some assault splashed in and have a blast. Once battlescribe has the points updated I can really start to play around with what a pure list would look like but I think I can make something really fun that would work, potentially even a triple batallion since you'll want a Dominus for both the formations and being able to spread the rerolls around let's you be more flexible with canticles. There's just so many options opened up now that I really feel like I can make an army that actually does what we're supposed to now. Heck I may even be able to finally use my infiltrators without feeling like an idiot now

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Master of Bioslicing combos right into the Appri Strategem. You knock out the last dude in a squad, bring back one in another squad, and finally use your CP to bring back the dead squad?

The unit still has to have 1 model remaining to use Fresh Converts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Arlen wrote:
If CC hordes become to much of a problem, I think metallica would be a grand solution to make sure our gunlines keep working. Additionally I just might sneak in a Hawkshroud Valiant into my list for that fantastic overwatch strat.
How cool is it to see orks charging your skitarii gunline and suddenly a knight with a flamethrower the size of a flat steps in and roasts them all.

Is it weird that I'm planning on mostly keeping my Kastelan in aegis mode and sprinting around the table? Lots of my opponents are things like eldar or Raven guard so they tend to be slippery and hide. The traditional play of slapping them in doubletap mode and breaking their legs just doesn't cut it for me much. With Metallica I can potentially move them 14" a turn to get them inside the -1 range and light them up.

With the new robot formation, my Metallica bots can sprint around being super aggressive up the midfield. I can keep the Dominus easily within 9" if I feel the need to shunt them into double tap mode and provide reroll 1's, as well as potentially run two 3 strong units of kataphrons that are spread out a bit to give me the option of an elimination volley. With 3-4 bots that I'm planning on running, they'll be hell to remove, and if you charge them big whoop, I'll just fall back my turn and shoot you again if played right. I also have a Valhallans guard army that would pair extremely well with this since their infantry can fire into friendly combat, giving me options to break robots out of tri locking if need be.

Even if I run pure Metallica though, between neutron Onagers, vastly improved destoryers, super mobile tanky Kastelan, and very aggressive plasma vanguard, I think I can make a super aggressive shooting army with some assault splashed in and have a blast. Once battlescribe has the points updated I can really start to play around with what a pure list would look like but I think I can make something really fun that would work, potentially even a triple batallion since you'll want a Dominus for both the formations and being able to spread the rerolls around let's you be more flexible with canticles. There's just so many options opened up now that I really feel like I can make an army that actually does what we're supposed to now. Heck I may even be able to finally use my infiltrators without feeling like an idiot now

I love your idea of Valhallans shooting into CC to free up units, i usually run my tech-thralls, i mean guardsmen.. as tallarn. This may work well on the cheaper veteran squads now, arm them with flamers, plasmas or grenade launchers and stay as the rear guard freeing up key units that have been locked up.

THis is why I think GRAIA is actually the way to run the Servitor Sepcialist detachment. Your infantry screen can shoot the melee unit that it is engaged with if your WL is within 6". And you can also get a relic to give your rangers full rerolls to hit in combat.

Honestly I gave up robots just because Knights can river dance most units to death, and I find these posts pretty inspiring for new lists, and I like to think myself an admec veteran!

I may even pick up some stabby electropriests in the future to help round out my army list, or possibly some more fist bots. I needed to get more CCW anyways, and in leu of cyrax I think staff priests may be the best bet for that aside from hopilites.

Or you know, throw skitarii into the meat grinder and shoot whatever is left over.

Why not just run a supplementing battalion of Graia Skitarii for this purpose in mind with your Warlord. Then have the Servitor Maniple with a Field Commander Dominus to regen models and a Cohort Cybernetica Spearhead?

Correct me if i’ve missed it, but you can make a detachment more than one specialist detachment right? So one battalion could be a servitor maniple AND a cybernetica cohort?

Fresh converts is what you’d use to bring back your servitor squad when only one is left. As long as you have 1cp you can potentially bring back 3 kataphrons. The photos i’ve seen a pretty hard to read, but it’d be interesting if you can use the wt more than once at the end of the movement phase. Sacrifice 3 servitors to bring back your kataphrons then freshly convert the servitors to bring them straight back to full strength without any chance of your opponent damaging more kataphrons or servitors in between uses.

The biggest weakness there i guess is you gotta keep your servitors hidden because once they’re dead your cp usage to keep those kataphrons alive goes up drastically.

Octovol wrote:
Correct me if i’ve missed it, but you can make a detachment more than one specialist detachment right? So one battalion could be a servitor maniple AND a cybernetica cohort?

Fresh converts is what you’d use to bring back your servitor squad when only one is left. As long as you have 1cp you can potentially bring back 3 kataphrons. The photos i’ve seen a pretty hard to read, but it’d be interesting if you can use the wt more than once at the end of the movement phase. Sacrifice 3 servitors to bring back your kataphrons then freshly convert the servitors to bring them straight back to full strength without any chance of your opponent damaging more kataphrons or servitors in between uses.

The biggest weakness there i guess is you gotta keep your servitors hidden because once they’re dead your cp usage to keep those kataphrons alive goes up drastically.

In the big leak video that was the first thing the guy said you couldn't do (no double special detachments in 1 detachment).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0eDbjQTyc&feature=youtu.be

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Honestly I gave up robots just because Knights can river dance most units to death, and I find these posts pretty inspiring for new lists, and I like to think myself an admec veteran!

I may even pick up some stabby electropriests in the future to help round out my army list, or possibly some more fist bots. I needed to get more CCW anyways, and in leu of cyrax I think staff priests may be the best bet for that aside from hopilites.

Or you know, throw skitarii into the meat grinder and shoot whatever is left over.

I still have a small glimmer of hope deep inside me for fires of Cyraxus..... even if it comes out in 2020 I have never actually used electropriests, not even when Admech and Skitarii first came out, i have used there models to make admech psykers.

Alright so I got impatient and edited my battlescribe roster files myself. I'm sure there's still some errors but here's my first stab at a pure Metalica list. If it wasn't for the destroyers or wanting to run 3 Onagers you can actually turn this into a triple Battalion list super easy, I just lack the HQ models I need and a squad of plasma vanguard. There would also be merit to potentially a Brigade/Battalion list, since servitors can fill in the elite slot and you want them anyways, and in fast attack you could take a couple of autocannon ballistarii to deal with light vehicles that the Kastelans don't really have time to fool with.



Seems like it'd be fun. Would start the game with 9 CP and with a little re configuring you could easily get it to 14 cp to start. Would be a crazy aggressive shooting list with a token amount of melee mixed in just to make sure you didn't get yourself in too much trouble.

The triple battalion list if you were curious used Arquebus Ranger squads as cheap but useful troops to fill out the third detachment. They're 65pts a pop (72 with the omnispex which seems like it has merit now) and I can't think of a single list where they're not going to be dangerous for something the opponent has. Spread them out in the backfield to deny deepstriking since the rest of your army wants to advance and call it a day. I'll need to play around with both and see which I like more.