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So all of a sudden we’re happy to fire half the optimal shots from robots in the first turn? I recall that being of paramount importance in as much as we cant stop people shooting them off the board turn 1.
The volume of shots is what makes them efficient. Not being able to change the protocol instantly from that relic makes it worthless as we never took datasmiths anyway so we gain nothing.
Octovol wrote: So i just re-read the cybernetica relic, the 9” change of protocol; I hate to be the one to raise this but it doesnt explciitly say the protocol changes instantly. All it says is that at the end of each movement phase you can change the protocol within 9” of the model with the relic. In other words it describes the most useless relic of our entire army. Increasing the range of the most poorly implemented mechanic we have. If you cant change the protocol so that it can actually be used then it’s worthless.
I wouldnt say its useless, i already knew it didnt immediately change there protocols. Instead i am taking it because then i dont need to spend 37pts on a datasmith, get an extra 3" range on that ability and a dominus can heal more than just kastelans so he is a better datasmith chassis. The only other relic i would take anyway would be the autocadaeus of arhkan land, i dont rate the other relics as being good.
and Suzuteo, you can only ever have 3 squads of normal servitors, so a max of 12 servitors in your army.
Yeah hes missed you can stick on an enginseer your taxed with and save a few points on the smith. Personally the omniscient mask with 3 units of hoplites works well and eye of xi lexum is great
Octovol wrote: So all of a sudden we’re happy to fire half the optimal shots from robots in the first turn? I recall that being of paramount importance in as much as we cant stop people shooting them off the board turn 1.
The volume of shots is what makes them efficient. Not being able to change the protocol instantly from that relic makes it worthless as we never took datasmiths anyway so we gain nothing.
Not every game you will get optimal lines of sight, with line of sight blocking terrain it is quite common to not even get all members of the unit firing at something worth their attention. And when it comes to the late game, being locked in place from the get go can cost you the game. Spoken from a lot of experience with my tournament matches, 75% of the time never gone straight into binaric override turn 1. It may be different for you Mars players, but i dont put all my eggs in one basket. Get locked in CC on the enemies turn, you cant retreat. The enemy is crafty and uses the terrain to his advange, suddenly you have a 440-660pt block that cant shoot as efficiently or even at all. They are one of your last things alive turn 6 and you realy need that object/linebreaker/slay the warlord/ETC mission, its not going to happen.
And i have never in all my games lost my kastelans turn 1.... I have fought against double primarchs, BA + Guard + Castellan lists, psyker spam, kraken and kronos tyranids, ultramarine gun lines, cawl stars and tau commander spam. With aegis and cover these bots are pretty damn resilient.
I use binaric override more as a backup, if something doesnt go your way. Like your whole army is locked up turn 1 and you have no hope of getting out of it or you are really uncertain if your going to kill X in your turn so you really want to wipe it out.
Like others have said, having a more mobile kastelan fire base that doesnt trade BS for moving is actually quite nice. We can hide better and then strike, we can reach around light of sight blocking terrain and attack units we couldnt otherwise hit, get a better position and hold objectives in the mid field. Binaric Override should be an OPTION to be used, not a MUST HAVE every turn 1. 8th edition has units that move crazy far, fire without line of sight, spam high and low str and ap shots, have jump shoot jump and units that ignore overwatch.
36 BS 3 (elimination protocols) re-rolling 1's .Str 6 AP 2 ignore cover shots at 36" range is still insane, especially now with a 8" move and even further with Metalica.
If you like always popping double shoot with your kastelans with BO then thats fine, it doesnt mean the new relic is trash because it doesnt suit your play style. I for one (and many people here) are happy and welcoming to the new found flexibility that the Cybernetica Cohort has opened up for us, and suddenly we are seeing the lesser used Forge Worlds coming out to be used for the first time ever.
Both of these specialist detachments have been a God send for us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 22:48:01
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
Octovol wrote: So i just re-read the cybernetica relic, the 9” change of protocol; I hate to be the one to raise this but it doesnt explciitly say the protocol changes instantly. All it says is that at the end of each movement phase you can change the protocol within 9” of the model with the relic. In other words it describes the most useless relic of our entire army. Increasing the range of the most poorly implemented mechanic we have. If you cant change the protocol so that it can actually be used then it’s worthless.
Small correction but it takes place at the start of the movement phase, not the end. Depending on how you want to use your bots this can be big.
If you know you want to park them in the open and just go into gunline mode, park them in the open and just change their protocol at the start of your movement phase. With a CP reroll you have a 3% chance to fail that, and an ~86% chance to pass it for "free" (we're ignoring the detachment and relic costs for now, but they're a valid point) This is not why people are excited for the relic and the ability it affords us though.
By not breaking the robots legs with the override and just switching them in manually, you now have options. If you get charged turn 1, you're not just stuck there and have to deal with it, you can switch back to having legs and fall back because you can switch to aegis before they have to move. If you don't like your position because someone like orks or eldar pulled reposition shenanigans after deployment was done but before first turn begins, you can react to that. If you realize you want those bots in the middle of the table parked on an objective after your turn one volley, you can do that. Heck you can even start game in aegis, start of your first turn use relic to switch them to protector for first turn volley. Next in turn 2 you switch them back to aegis, move them up to an objective or good firing position, and then use the override to put them back in protector mode at the start of your second shooting phase. Or leave them in aegis, or even go conqueror if need be, whatever.
Yes, this ability does not mathhammer as the most efficient, because you're not just sitting there double tapping, but pure math isn't always everything with this. It doesn't matter if you put out a 1,000 shots a turn if you can't see the target and can't react to it. And what are many of the defacto Staples of the meta? Fast, maneuverable armies that are hard to pin down, and with Tau getting buffs that's only getting worse in the future. Bots that just sit still all game and can't move are not going to win every game because not every table is going to have open sightlines for every objective and not every opponent is going to be braindead enough to just slug it out with you in the open. With ITC LOS rules involving ruins especially, breaking your robots legs turn 1 is really going to handicap you. We're paying the same amount of points as most knights, they need to be able to be mobile in a pinch. And if your opponent is happy to come to you great, you never lost that ability to just sit there and shoot them, it's just now turn 5 or 6 you can switch them back to aegis to go and grab an objective if you have to.
And ignoring the tactics side, breaking their legs turn 1 and making them turrets all game is boring. At least with these new abilities we'll actually see robots move again and do stuff. And since other forgeworlds lack Cawl and don't want to play Mars, this relic allows us to use our own traits to make the robots do something different. For example with Metallica I'm heavily considering running the shoulder mounted flamer now. If you are aggressive enough with them, using the relic can allow you to move them up the table onto an objective, park them there in doubletap mode, and then make the objective very difficult to cap as you can make it impossible to get within 3" of without assault, which means braving 8d6 heavy flamer shots at 12" range and some phosphor hits before trying to kill Kastellan robots in hand to hand. That sounds interesting and different, and yeah it's not as mathematically powerful as parking them in a corner with Cawl and Wrath of Mars but I don't play Mars so it's not an option for me. Yeah I don't get the mortal wounds potential and reroll all hits but I kind of like the alternative of being able to fall back from combat on demand or move my robots up to 14" a turn with no real penalties. Honestly my only real concern is how much CP it'll use but with the point decreases on all our troops and the fact that Kataphrons help fill out brigades it won't be too difficult to fun for at least a turn or two.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Just wanna say this: You can also take a Datasmith, give him arkhan land's pimp stick and even make him your warlord (if you feel like the bonus repair is needed, there is a rules argument to be had if the repair is still only limited to one model like it says in the repair special rules of Dominus/Enginseer/Cawl/Datasmiths) and use him to both save yourself from having to sacrifice the relic slot to emulate his doctrina change ability... while also saving 50 points compared to a Dominus who instead gets to buff your Dunecrawlers and other 3+ to hit units which benefit from the re-roll 1s much more (re-rolling half their misses instead of a third).
You only go for the Cybernetica Detachement if you want mobile Kastelans, e.g. with 2 Heavy Phosphors and the flamers running up the field with 20+D6 threat range on their flamers while they stay in Aegis mode (1+ armor and 4+ inv. saves are good stuff while you got shroudpsalm active). Unlike Dakkabots they are pretty hard to charge (unless you want to get hit with 3xD6 S6 AP -2 D2 flamers with 12" range) and when in a good spot you activate Protector Doctrina on turn 2. With 6"+D6" movement Datasmith is more than able to keep up with the robots within the 6" range needed, especially if you move both units and advance the datasmith first to see how far the Kastelans can advance if you end up rolling a 5 or 6.
And believe me people, paying a command point and sacrificing your relic just to save 41 points on a Datasmith is not worth it, just as much as paying a command point and crippling the movement (and thus the ability to react to units being out of range or LoS) of the 330+ point cornerstone of your army turn 1 isn't. A Datasmith does way more than just being a doctrina change tax (including being as capable as a Dominus or Enginseer at repairing Kastelans and being a great melee blocker to intercept chaff trying to tie the robots down).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 00:27:34
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
Ragnar Blackmane wrote: Just wanna say this: You can also take a Datasmith, give him arkhan land's pimp stick and even make him your warlord (if you feel like the bonus repair is needed, there is a rules argument to be had if the repair is still only limited to one model like it says in the repair special rules of Dominus/Enginseer/Cawl/Datasmiths) and use him to both save yourself from having to sacrifice the relic slot to emulate his doctrina change ability... while also saving 50 points compared to a Dominus who instead gets to buff your Dunecrawlers and other 3+ to hit units which benefit from the re-roll 1s much more (re-rolling half their misses instead of a third).
You only go for the Cybernetica Detachement if you want mobile Kastelans, e.g. with 2 Heavy Phosphors and the flamers running up the field with 20+D6 threat range on their flamers while they stay in Aegis mode (1+ armor and 4+ inv. saves are good stuff while you got shroudpsalm active). Unlike Dakkabots they are pretty hard to charge (unless you want to get hit with 3xD6 S6 AP -2 D2 flamers with 12" range) and when in a good spot you activate Protector Doctrina on turn 2. With 6"+D6" movement Datasmith is more than able to keep up with the robots within the 6" range needed, especially if you move both units and advance the datasmith first to see how far the Kastelans can advance if you end up rolling a 5 or 6.
And believe me people, paying a command point and sacrificing your relic just to save 41 points on a Datasmith is not worth it, just as much as paying a command point and crippling the movement (and thus the ability to react to units being out of range or LoS) of the 330+ point cornerstone of your army turn 1 isn't. A Datasmith does way more than just being a doctrina change tax (including being as capable as a Dominus or Enginseer at repairing Kastelans and being a great melee blocker to intercept chaff trying to tie the robots down).
He can only heal kastelans....
I would rather have a dominus that can change protocols instead of having another character to do it who will barely affect the game. The dominus is tougher, heals himself without having to have the autocadaeus of arkhan land, shoots better, is more accurate in CC, heals all types of Admech models and also heals 1 wound on knights and will usually be next to your robots anyway.
It isnt a bad relic and those 37pts saved means you can spend it on something that wont rarely shoot, rarely be in CC and and will only change a protocol maybe once a game. The dominus should be used in conjunction with elimation protocols. That is why the cybernetica cohort opens up a whole new way of playing admech. HIGH MOBILITY AND GOOD SHOOTING.
I agree fully with MrMoustaffa on al points. I no longer see the point in taking a Datasmith. And lets be honest, there are barely any good relics for us, the new servo skull is up there with the autocadaeus, it actually adds more depth to the army.
And me dropping my Datasmith means my 2k army pre chapter approved is now 288pts cheaper. Thats a squad of 6 plasma destroyers.
+ Also wouldnt it be 3d6str 5 ap 1 flamers at 12" not str 6 ap2 damage 2? You might be confused with hellhounds there.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 00:43:31
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
Ragnar Blackmane wrote: Just wanna say this: You can also take a Datasmith, give him arkhan land's pimp stick and even make him your warlord (if you feel like the bonus repair is needed, there is a rules argument to be had if the repair is still only limited to one model like it says in the repair special rules of Dominus/Enginseer/Cawl/Datasmiths) and use him to both save yourself from having to sacrifice the relic slot to emulate his doctrina change ability... while also saving 50 points compared to a Dominus who instead gets to buff your Dunecrawlers and other 3+ to hit units which benefit from the re-roll 1s much more (re-rolling half their misses instead of a third).
You only go for the Cybernetica Detachement if you want mobile Kastelans, e.g. with 2 Heavy Phosphors and the flamers running up the field with 20+D6 threat range on their flamers while they stay in Aegis mode (1+ armor and 4+ inv. saves are good stuff while you got shroudpsalm active). Unlike Dakkabots they are pretty hard to charge (unless you want to get hit with 3xD6 S6 AP -2 D2 flamers with 12" range) and when in a good spot you activate Protector Doctrina on turn 2. With 6"+D6" movement Datasmith is more than able to keep up with the robots within the 6" range needed, especially if you move both units and advance the datasmith first to see how far the Kastelans can advance if you end up rolling a 5 or 6.
And believe me people, paying a command point and sacrificing your relic just to save 41 points on a Datasmith is not worth it, just as much as paying a command point and crippling the movement (and thus the ability to react to units being out of range or LoS) of the 330+ point cornerstone of your army turn 1 isn't. A Datasmith does way more than just being a doctrina change tax (including being as capable as a Dominus or Enginseer at repairing Kastelans and being a great melee blocker to intercept chaff trying to tie the robots down).
He can only heal kastelans....
I would rather have a dominus that can change protocols instead of having another character to do it who will barely affect the game. The dominus is tougher, heals himself without having to have the autocadaeus of arkhan land, shoots better, is more accurate in CC, heals all types of Admech models and also heals 1 wound on knights and will usually be next to your robots anyway.
It isnt a bad relic and those 37pts saved means you can spend it on something that wont rarely shoot, rarely be in CC and and will only change a protocol maybe once a game. The dominus should be used in conjunction with elimation protocols. That is why the cybernetica cohort opens up a whole new way of playing admech. HIGH MOBILITY AND GOOD SHOOTING.
I agree fully with MrMoustaffa on al points. I no longer see the point in taking a Datasmith. And lets be honest, there are barely any good relics for us, the new servo skull is up there with the autocadaeus, it actually adds more depth to the army.
And me dropping my Datasmith means my 2k army pre chapter approved is now 288pts cheaper. Thats a squad of 6 plasma destroyers.
+ Also wouldnt it be 3d6str 5 ap 1 flamers at 12" not str 6 ap2 damage 2? You might be confused with hellhounds there.
But does being able to repair other units with the character babysitting the Kastelans actually matter? What are you going to do with the bunch of Enginseers you are taking that necessitates the babysitter to move away from the robots to repair anything else? Because Enginseers can literally do nothing else but repair and filling HQ slots. A Dominus and 1-2 Enginseers will always be enough to keep 3 Crawlers and even the odd Ironstrider repaired... unless the other player doesn't focus fire and just sprays his AT firepower all over at least 3-4 of your non-Kastelan vehicles in a turn, in case you are probably going to win the game because the other player doesn't know what he is doing.
And a Dominus isn't better than a Datasmith at repairing Kastelan's if either doesn't have a warlord trait (which either can take) or relic (which either can take) that boosts it. And the extra firepower comes at the cost of paying another fifty points (which isn't worth the upgrade over the gamma pistol and power fist).
I guess it comes down to how much you value Arkhan's pimp stick or your command points, but if you run pure Mechanicus then you usually don't have more than 13 at best (which means you end up with 1-3 Enginseers, an overkill because you'll never need that many for repairing). if your bring a Dominus or Cawl). It essentially comes down whether or not you are willing to take two Dominii, because what's the point in paying two CP minimum and a relic to move and shoot with the Kastelans if they are forced to stay in that one 6" shooty castle bubble that all the Crawlers and Kataphrons will sit in as well? It will be hard to get LoS that they don't already have.
Good catch on the flamers though, that's what I get for brainstorming about Hellhounds and LR Redeemers in the middle of the night.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 01:19:04
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
Ragnar Blackmane wrote: Just wanna say this: You can also take a Datasmith, give him arkhan land's pimp stick and even make him your warlord (if you feel like the bonus repair is needed, there is a rules argument to be had if the repair is still only limited to one model like it says in the repair special rules of Dominus/Enginseer/Cawl/Datasmiths) and use him to both save yourself from having to sacrifice the relic slot to emulate his doctrina change ability... while also saving 50 points compared to a Dominus who instead gets to buff your Dunecrawlers and other 3+ to hit units which benefit from the re-roll 1s much more (re-rolling half their misses instead of a third).
You only go for the Cybernetica Detachement if you want mobile Kastelans, e.g. with 2 Heavy Phosphors and the flamers running up the field with 20+D6 threat range on their flamers while they stay in Aegis mode (1+ armor and 4+ inv. saves are good stuff while you got shroudpsalm active). Unlike Dakkabots they are pretty hard to charge (unless you want to get hit with 3xD6 S6 AP -2 D2 flamers with 12" range) and when in a good spot you activate Protector Doctrina on turn 2. With 6"+D6" movement Datasmith is more than able to keep up with the robots within the 6" range needed, especially if you move both units and advance the datasmith first to see how far the Kastelans can advance if you end up rolling a 5 or 6.
And believe me people, paying a command point and sacrificing your relic just to save 41 points on a Datasmith is not worth it, just as much as paying a command point and crippling the movement (and thus the ability to react to units being out of range or LoS) of the 330+ point cornerstone of your army turn 1 isn't. A Datasmith does way more than just being a doctrina change tax (including being as capable as a Dominus or Enginseer at repairing Kastelans and being a great melee blocker to intercept chaff trying to tie the robots down).
He can only heal kastelans....
I would rather have a dominus that can change protocols instead of having another character to do it who will barely affect the game. The dominus is tougher, heals himself without having to have the autocadaeus of arkhan land, shoots better, is more accurate in CC, heals all types of Admech models and also heals 1 wound on knights and will usually be next to your robots anyway.
It isnt a bad relic and those 37pts saved means you can spend it on something that wont rarely shoot, rarely be in CC and and will only change a protocol maybe once a game. The dominus should be used in conjunction with elimation protocols. That is why the cybernetica cohort opens up a whole new way of playing admech. HIGH MOBILITY AND GOOD SHOOTING.
I agree fully with MrMoustaffa on al points. I no longer see the point in taking a Datasmith. And lets be honest, there are barely any good relics for us, the new servo skull is up there with the autocadaeus, it actually adds more depth to the army.
And me dropping my Datasmith means my 2k army pre chapter approved is now 288pts cheaper. Thats a squad of 6 plasma destroyers.
+ Also wouldnt it be 3d6str 5 ap 1 flamers at 12" not str 6 ap2 damage 2? You might be confused with hellhounds there.
But does being able to repair other units with the character babysitting the Kastelans actually matter? What are you going to do with the bunch of Enginseers you are taking that necessitates the babysitter to move away from the robots to repair anything else? Because Enginseers can literally do nothing else but repair and filling HQ slots. A Dominus and 1-2 Enginseers will always be enough to keep 3 Crawlers and even the odd Ironstrider repaired... unless the other player doesn't focus fire and just sprays his AT firepower all over at least 3-4 of your non-Kastelan vehicles in a turn, in case you are probably going to win the game because the other player doesn't know what he is doing.
And a Dominus isn't better than a Datasmith at repairing Kastelan's if either doesn't have a warlord trait (which either can take) or relic (which either can take) that boosts it. And the extra firepower comes at the cost of paying another fifty points (which isn't worth the upgrade over the gamma pistol and power fist).
Good catch on the flamers though, that's what I get for brainstorming about Hellhounds and LR Redeemers in the middle of the knight
If you look at my list from a page ago i have 1 enginseer. Instead i have 2 Dominus, one for the servitor maniple and one for the cybernetica cohort. A Dominus is strictly better than a Datasmith in all fields expect healing kastelans where he is then his equal. But for 53pts you get access to 2 shooting weapons (of which the macrostubber can only be used in cc or if you forgo your volkite blasters shots), more reliable close combat, self healing without the need to get a relic for it, better synergy with the WHOLE army instead of 1 unit, repairing kataphrons, other characters, knights, onagers, kastelans, termite, dragoons and ironstriders, has a larger foot print and can block off chargers to.
However why are we using characters to block charge lines, they dont have a big enough presence on the table to stop charging all together? Thats what skitarii and guardsmen are for, they will create a line to stop enemy unit passing through. A datasmith is on a 32mm base and can easily be moved around. And in any case, who ever is charging your robots will be multi-charging everything anyway.
The relic on the datasmith is kind of crap to be honest, d3 re-rollable wounds back only for kastellans.... id rather have that on an enginseer that we are taking for a battalion. You can use the datasmith but he is no longer required for robots due to the new relic, and like i said before we only really have 2 good relics anyway. In response to the enemies anti-tank, it takes a LOT of AT weapons to kill a squad of kastellans with aegis and cover. I attend tournaments fairly reguarly against all manner of competitive lists and smart opponents and i have NEVER lost a squad of my kastellans once. There main threat is mortal wounds. They are essential immune to str 6 ap 1 and below fire, auto cannons and lootas ping off them, you need a load of lascannons to kill the whole squad and plasma weapons are either not in range turn 1 or they hit on 3s/4s and wound on 3s of which we get a 4++. You will need 3 failed wounds per robot.... Ynarri Dark Reapers will hurt but everytime i have fought against them i have gone first.
If the whole enemy army shoots all its AT weapons at dakkabots, that leaves dragoons and onagers pretty much untouched, and what damage that is done can be repaired. So as i stated before, i no longer see a need for a datasmith, and it isnt hard for us to get CP anymore, i could of have had 3 battalions if i wanted to, or a brigade and a battalion. Our army doesnt go through CP's crazy fast neither. noospheric mindlock 1cp, strafing fire run 1cp, elimination protocols 2cp, tech adept 1cp, imperatives 1cp, infoslave skull 2cp, binaric override 2cp, etc, etc. We dont have big 3cp strats or multiple 2cp strats.
For example my badmoons use 8CP turn 1..... my admech use about 3-4CP turn 1
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
If you're playing competitively, your best bet is to fix the Kastelans and make back their points as soon as possible. This doesn't always mean turn one, but if you can get LOS to Magnus, Mortarion, Rowboat, a Castellan, etc., you do it. Once you are set up, you should also consider that you have created wide areas of denial that make it difficult for the opponent to use their mobility. The areas that are not covered can be covered by Icarus Crawlers and the Kataphrons now; you used to use Basilisks, Crawlers, Ironstriders, and/or a Knight.
I don't bring Datasmiths because they never do what I want them to; this is a reference to a classic MTG debate (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=7146). When you change protocols, your opponent has an entire turn to react to said change. There is NEVER a situation where you would want to manually switch protocols, but there are plenty of instances where you would Binharic Override.
Most lists are going to end up with 14 CP. 2-5 will be spent in mustering. If you are pure AdMech, you have to take the Monitor Malevolus WLT. 6 CP is too much to pass up. For the relic, I actually like Raiment a lot more than Pimp Cane. The 6+ FNP is actually nice against infantry shooting, and 16.67% more Overwatch fire is not bad when you're shooting with Kastelans (108 shots, 18 hits; 18 bonus shots, 3 bonus hits).
Smarter money is on bringing Guard though. You get Catachans, which are still some of the most efficient melee troops in the meta right now, the ever invaluable ObSec, and Kurov's Aquila.
1 is if you walk your Kastelans to the center of the board before switching modes, so that everyone is in range of them. This synergises with turning their guns to Assault, but the reason a Datasmith works here is because you know in advance when you want to switch so declaring it one turn beforehand is fine.
2 is the expensive Lucius deepstrike fist Kastelans- deepstrike the Datasmith to give them the 3” charge and even if the Datasmith fails the charge, they’re still 9” away so can switch protocols (though this will of course only come into effect next turn). This is probably the thinking behind the 9” range increase trait. It isn’t very competitive and is super expensive and gimmicky, however.
I was watching a battle report using CA 2018. Something was mentioned that seems YUGE:
1. Players roll for deployment.
2. Winner of the roll picks his deployment zone.
3. Loser of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Winner of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Loser of the roll determines who goes first.
=O
Which is sort of what people have been asking for all along, I guess. I hope it makes it into ITC for the coming year. Plus the change to scoring at the end of the round.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 05:23:17
If Cawl was still 240 I'd experiment with other Forgeworlds and builds. But he's not so I'm gonna keep rocking him with some robots.
And for most games I don't think it's worth 2CP for them to avoid the -1 to hit in the first turn in the Cohort Cybernetica.
Am I missing out on the new stuff? Are the new options really better? I guess it depends what's in the rest of your army. The Kataphron Destroyers with plasma detachment might be good but I don't have any of those models.
Pomguo wrote: I can see two uses for Datasmiths atm.
1 is if you walk your Kastelans to the center of the board before switching modes, so that everyone is in range of them. This synergises with turning their guns to Assault, but the reason a Datasmith works here is because you know in advance when you want to switch so declaring it one turn beforehand is fine.
2 is the expensive Lucius deepstrike fist Kastelans- deepstrike the Datasmith to give them the 3” charge and even if the Datasmith fails the charge, they’re still 9” away so can switch protocols (though this will of course only come into effect next turn). This is probably the thinking behind the 9” range increase trait. It isn’t very competitive and is super expensive and gimmicky, however.
1) You would still benefit from immediately changing to double shoot in this situation.
2) Well, you need to bring a Datasmith for the punchy robots...
axisofentropy wrote: Am I missing out on the new stuff? Are the new options really better? I guess it depends what's in the rest of your army. The Kataphron Destroyers with plasma detachment might be good but I don't have any of those models.
The Kataphrons are still really cheap at the moment. Maybe you can get a set? I have to strip and rebuild/repaint mine. They're red from the 7E days. Sigh.
Biosplicing only works on servitors and the stratagem for robots to make their heavy weapons into assault only works in aegis Mode. So no moving and double tapping. And Yeah, that 3" relic is useless...sadly. Why are people talking about using it? You never took a datasmith in a competitive environment and that wasnt caused by their range oO
Why ryza dragoons @Suzuteo?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 06:20:41
Suzuteo wrote: I was watching a battle report using CA 2018. Something was mentioned that seems YUGE:
1. Players roll for deployment.
2. Winner of the roll picks his deployment zone.
3. Loser of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Winner of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Loser of the roll determines who goes first.
=O
Which is sort of what people have been asking for all along, I guess. I hope it makes it into ITC for the coming year. Plus the change to scoring at the end of the round.
Yeah that are some really huge and imo welcomed changes!
Btw I like the list you made for Aaranis, I think I will implement something similiar for my 1750 games.
Is Plasma still better if you dont run Ryza ?
Also what´s everyones opinion on Ironstriders in a mobile gunline (no Cawl & Bots)? Laser vs Autocanon?
Also any huge changes in the allies department? I saw Mephiston go up 15 points which is a shame and we may get in trouble CP wise with all of the new pre-game stratagems. (They can´t be refunded right?)
Suzuteo wrote: @Aaranis
How many Ironstriders do you have? Because I thought about it, and if you want a mobile gunline, you can do something like this:
Spoiler:
Stygies VIII Brigade Detachment - 1505 Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 500
Lord of War - 500 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Hekaton Siege Claw, Twin Rad-cleanser, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: The Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 2005 points 14 CP (-5)
Or some variation of that. Maybe figure out a way to use the last detachment. But the idea is to move and shoot all day. Haha.
EDIT: I miscalculated the points on Troops. So it's 5 over. But you get the idea. I don't think you need the Robots at all if you don't want to plant them.
Thing is, this is pretty much all my collection minus the 3 Destroyers and 2 Robots I'll buy this month I don't have Knights and I only have 3 Dragoons, no Ballistarii. Which is why I'm quite limited. Also it's 1850 pts with strict limitations on unit variety, can only have 2 of the same unit ONCE except for Troops. I used it for my Neutron and Icarus Onagers. WYSIWYG too and that's how they're built.
Lucius Robots are actually really resilient when in Aegis. If not in cover you ignore the AP-1 so you won't ever need to use the 3+, then when you're shot with AP-2 you can use the 4++ with chances of deflecting shots. This has been a problem for me sometimes with Stygies or Mars that I had to choose between a better save with 3+ or a chance to deflect some mortal wounds with the 4++.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay I could finally start writing that Lucius Bomb list I wanted to try and figured I had so much points left that I added a Agripinaa Servitor Maniple in the lot, combining my two favourite ideas post-CA/Vigilus. The list goes like this:
The plan is essentially to Lucius DS the Datasmith and the Robots and Power Surge them into something tasty after spraying with the combustors first. The Infiltrators may come along to shoot the screens first but I'd need a lot of room for this, which, if using Beta rules, might be problematic. The Dragoons screen at first and charge at the first occasion. My Rangers stay behind for DS denial and form a chain towards their Dominus for rerolls first turn. The Arquebuses can threaten Characters and finish the odd wounds off some vehicle, and Lucius in cover means the enemy has to either shoot a lot of AP0 or go AP-2 to pass their saves.
Meanwhile with Agripinaa I can advance up the board and take space, the Vanguards cover the Onagers, which themselves give them a Ld boost. The Destroyers could be first line alongside the Vanguards or a little more behind, but I want to be agressive with the Flamers. The Dominus follows closely, repairing a Kataphron with the Autocaduceus to be sure it's full HP before feeding them a Servitor to make another grow back. The Onagers do their thing and contribute to the anti-horde with their Stubbers.
After having used Lucius DS I still have 9 CP for the game, and can even think about giving a 5++ to my Kataphrons. If I don't have first turn and they get heavily focused I just Fresh convert them and lose 3 CP and mobility for a turn but render the opponent's previous shooting phase almost useless. I can use the other CPs to Binharic Override the Bots if I see they're going to fight a lot, give Conqueror Doctrina to the Dragoons and such.
I thought about going Monitor Malevolus on the Lucius Dominus but getting 2 CPs off the whole game (if using Beta rules) don't look that interesting, maybe I'm wrong. If I go that route however I use Field Commander for Master of Biosplicing anyway and lose another pre-game CP then. Concerning relics I'm unsure that I'd need another, the Foreas servo-skull is of no use as I'll want my Robots to be punching twice as soon as they hit the lines until their death anyway. The Eye of Xi-Loxum was another idea but as my Dominus already has a relic that I can't give the Enginseer (because he can't fix the Kataphrons), I'd have to give it to the Enginseer and I don't want it so close to the frontline. I'll have to trust my Neutrons and Destroyers to anti-tank, and the Bots of course.
Thoughts on this ? It might not be hard competitive but I believe not many people would expect this, and there's so many priority targets that there's got to be one or two combos that'll work. The Robots are very durable as well as the Kataphrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 08:33:22
The number of models you can put in 2000 points is insane. With my new test list, I save 500 points.
I will run a triple Metallica battalion next weekend. You can use so many different tricks and stratagems, I love the new variety.
And you have both a strong gun line and very good protection against close combat army’s. I'm curious to see how they fight.
deffrekka wrote: Not every game you will get optimal lines of sight, with line of sight blocking terrain it is quite common to not even get all members of the unit firing at something worth their attention
Yep. Ran into this with my ork lootas yesterday. Game 1. Couldn't see 2/3 of eldar fliers without screwing up my LOS completely if I go 2nd/once flyers are dead if I go 1st. Game 2: I could basically see half the army from where I started so to see 3rd dakkajet(after taking down 2) and boyz coming my left flank needed to redeploy. Game 3 my lootas needed to relocate both turn 2 and turn 3 to see a riptide. I would have been in trouble if those lootas couldn't redeploy(which they can pretty efficiently much to the disgrunt of tau player)
At least here there's enough LOS blocking in tournaments(less so on game club nights but different places). Generally one big LOS blocker in center and in each quarters with some random terrain here and there that can cover at least to something.
Suzuteo wrote: I was watching a battle report using CA 2018. Something was mentioned that seems YUGE:
1. Players roll for deployment.
2. Winner of the roll picks his deployment zone.
3. Loser of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Winner of the roll deploys his entire army.
4. Loser of the roll determines who goes first.
=O
Which is sort of what people have been asking for all along, I guess. I hope it makes it into ITC for the coming year. Plus the change to scoring at the end of the round.
Yeah that are some really huge and imo welcomed changes!
Btw I like the list you made for Aaranis, I think I will implement something similiar for my 1750 games.
Is Plasma still better if you dont run Ryza ?
Also what´s everyones opinion on Ironstriders in a mobile gunline (no Cawl & Bots)? Laser vs Autocanon?
Also any huge changes in the allies department? I saw Mephiston go up 15 points which is a shame and we may get in trouble CP wise with all of the new pre-game stratagems. (They can´t be refunded right?)
Was that btw for all scenarios? It was for one but not sure if all.
And drat my favourite(ork) warlord trait just went to useless half the games.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 09:05:06
Okay I could finally start writing that Lucius Bomb list I wanted to try and figured I had so much points left that I added a Agripinaa Servitor Maniple in the lot, combining my two favourite ideas post-CA/Vigilus. The list goes like this:
That is quite a cool list, I would maybe have swapped out one Dragoon and something else to push in another 5 infiltrators, to make that turn 2 hit even harder.
Additionally I would maybe put the Dunecrawlers in the Lucius detachment since they might benefit more from that dogma bonus then the Agripinaa one. But I get why you would put them in that detachment since they mostly stay back, while the Lucius detachment seems to be all about running forward.
Okay I could finally start writing that Lucius Bomb list I wanted to try and figured I had so much points left that I added a Agripinaa Servitor Maniple in the lot, combining my two favourite ideas post-CA/Vigilus. The list goes like this:
That is quite a cool list, I would maybe have swapped out one Dragoon and something else to push in another 5 infiltrators, to make that turn 2 hit even harder.
Additionally I would maybe put the Dunecrawlers in the Lucius detachment since they might benefit more from that dogma bonus then the Agripinaa one. But I get why you would put them in that detachment since they mostly stay back, while the Lucius detachment seems to be all about running forward.
Thanks ! I see what you mean for the Infiltrators, but it's yet another unit in DS with a large footprint I have to place, and the 3 Dragoons make a better turn 1 screen. And they die so fast these days that 3 looks like the right amount.
For the Dunecrawlers I was thinking of having them move slowly with the rest of the Agripinaa detachment, to keep buffing the Vanguards and stay in the Dominus' aura. Having them in Lucius would be sensible though, but I'm one Support slot short with the Robots and 3 Crawlers. I could do another Lucius Spearhead but I'd need ANOTHER Enginseer. What I'm thinking is having the two Neutrons go with Eradication Beamers to accompany Agripinaa, they'd be cheaper, but I'd lose on reliable long-range anti-tank.
Iago40k wrote: Biosplicing only works on servitors and the stratagem for robots to make their heavy weapons into assault only works in aegis Mode. So no moving and double tapping. And Yeah, that 3" relic is useless...sadly. Why are people talking about using it? You never took a datasmith in a competitive environment and that wasnt caused by their range oO
Why ryza dragoons @Suzuteo?
It works for Robots. You need to be in Aegis during the Movement phase; you don't need to use Override until the Shooting phase.
Reroll fighting wound rolls of 1. Just thought it would be an interesting way to take advantage of the fact that you're going Ryza, which has that weird fighting and plasma combination; no unit in our entire army can truly benefit from both.
deffrekka wrote: Not every game you will get optimal lines of sight, with line of sight blocking terrain it is quite common to not even get all members of the unit firing at something worth their attention
Yep. Ran into this with my ork lootas yesterday. Game 1. Couldn't see 2/3 of eldar fliers without screwing up my LOS completely if I go 2nd/once flyers are dead if I go 1st. Game 2: I could basically see half the army from where I started so to see 3rd dakkajet(after taking down 2) and boyz coming my left flank needed to redeploy. Game 3 my lootas needed to relocate both turn 2 and turn 3 to see a riptide. I would have been in trouble if those lootas couldn't redeploy(which they can pretty efficiently much to the disgrunt of tau player)
At least here there's enough LOS blocking in tournaments(less so on game club nights but different places). Generally one big LOS blocker in center and in each quarters with some random terrain here and there that can cover at least to something.
Focus on winning board control with the Robots. Killing things is incidental to this objective.
I honestly don't think what you're describing is really a problem. If you can't see them, they can't see you. There are plenty of boards where if you plant your Robots in the right spot, the enemy pretty much can't score points without coming into range and LOS of your guns. What's he going to do? Hide behind buildings while holding 2/6 objectives forever?
tneva82 wrote: Was that btw for all scenarios? It was for one but not sure if all.
Yes. They said this was a rules change for all the new missions. Though I suppose you could play the old ones, but eh. I think ITC should adopt this right away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 10:56:57
Suzuteo wrote: What's he going to do? Hide behind buildings while holding 2/6 objectives forever?
Approach into assault range of your firebase immune from your shooting thanks to LOS blocking and then pounce in. If you have multiple chaff units ahead he charges into one, tri-point another and is immune to shooting and then charges into bots. If there's no chaff charge bots as well.
Or control more like 4/6 objectives while you camp in that LOS blocked area and struggle to control more than 1 without exposing some of your army to his army who used LOS blocking to get close enough
Suzuteo wrote: What's he going to do? Hide behind buildings while holding 2/6 objectives forever?
Approach into assault range of your firebase immune from your shooting thanks to LOS blocking and then pounce in. If you have multiple chaff units ahead he charges into one, tri-point another and is immune to shooting and then charges into bots. If there's no chaff charge bots as well.
Or control more like 4/6 objectives while you camp in that LOS blocked area and struggle to control more than 1 without exposing some of your army to his army who used LOS blocking to get close enough
Not realistic. For the past year, we've been doing almost nothing but make lists to make it hard to charge into your Robots. The only real threats were flying charges and hordes/tides, and one of those problems are gone now. That is why the Robot count in my lists have steadily creeped up, and now I doubt I would ever bring fewer than 5 to a table. The other 1300 or so points in my army support these Robots with either assault or mobile shooting. Before, it was a Knight, Blood Angels, and Crawlers. Now, it is Kataphrons, who may well outdamage your Robots anyway. I mean, have you seen what 3x Icarus Crawlers can do to a unit of Shining Spears, Tau Battlesuits, or Blood Angels?
Really, my worries now have to deal with all the weird new tricks armies have to get in close, to shoot from outside 36" range, and whether or not I have enough Catachans to win ObSec fights.
Meanwhile I finally had the chance to tinker on my Ryza list and came up with two that seems quite a lot of fun to play with.
2000pt Full on Ryza Brigade for 15cp Major focus ofcourse on the destroyer unit in this detachment for that plasma combination, while adding some plasma to the Vanguard as a back-up to use the Ryza strat.
Infiltrators and Dragoons to pick up the most of the Ryza Dogma and put pressure on objective grabbing. Kastellan bots to get the Destroyers to BS2+.
This list seems like a ton of fun with a lot of CP to play around with.
HQ.
- Dominus with Volkite and Macro. (Warlord)
- Engiseer
- Engiseer
Troops
- 6x Destroyers with Plasma and flamers (Enhanced Bionics -1 CP)
- 5x Rangers with 2 Arquebus
- 5x Rangers with 2 Arquebus
- 5x Rangers with 2 arc rifles
- 5x Vanguard with 2 plasma
- 10x Vanguard with 3 plasma
Elite
- 5x Infiltrators with Tasers
- 5x Infiltrators with Tasers
- 4x servitors
Fast Attack
- Dragoon
- Dragoon
- Dragoon
Heavy Support
- Onager Dunecrawler with Neutron laser and stubber
- Onager Dunecrawler with Neutron laser and stubber
- Onager Dunecrawler with Neutron laser
- 4x Kastellan Robots with heavy phosphor
1999pt Ryza Battalion with Knight detachment for 11cp Swapping out the Dunecrawlers, Dragoons and Vanguard for a Valiant and two Warglaives. The Valiant and Warglaives will put on a lot of pressure onto the enemy line and provide a lot of mid field dominance. The two infiltrators squad function the same as above, long range objective grabbers.
I love the Valiant and while this list has quite a bit less cp I also think it would be able to hit quite hard.
Suzuteo wrote: What's he going to do? Hide behind buildings while holding 2/6 objectives forever?
Approach into assault range of your firebase immune from your shooting thanks to LOS blocking and then pounce in. If you have multiple chaff units ahead he charges into one, tri-point another and is immune to shooting and then charges into bots. If there's no chaff charge bots as well.
Or control more like 4/6 objectives while you camp in that LOS blocked area and struggle to control more than 1 without exposing some of your army to his army who used LOS blocking to get close enough
Not realistic. For the past year, we've been doing almost nothing but make lists to make it hard to charge into your Robots. The only real threats were flying charges and hordes/tides, and one of those problems are gone now. That is why the Robot count in my lists have steadily creeped up, and now I doubt I would ever bring fewer than 5 to a table. The other 1300 or so points in my army support these Robots with either assault or mobile shooting. Before, it was a Knight, Blood Angels, and Crawlers. Now, it is Kataphrons, who may well outdamage your Robots anyway. I mean, have you seen what 3x Icarus Crawlers can do to a unit of Shining Spears, Tau Battlesuits, or Blood Angels?
Really, my worries now have to deal with all the weird new tricks armies have to get in close, to shoot from outside 36" range, and whether or not I have enough Catachans to win ObSec fights.
Well we play on different types of boards then. I just know that for example yesterday if lootas were forced to sit in place they would have struggled to shoot any meaningful targets with 48" range guns without giving easy access lines for opponents. And unless I camp myself to like one corner as tight as possible(making easy tri-point locking) they would also be able to shoot and assault other parts and I wouldn't have more than 1 or 2 objectives to control with. Easy recipe for defeat. Only way I would get more than 1-2 objectives would be use 3 objectives I get to place on one dz area and then HOPE I win 50-50 roll to be able to take that. If I don't...well then I might be lucky to have ONE objective to control...
As said. I had to use da jump to chase down LOS against riptide. There was no way I could draw LOS to riptides at will and there was no real way I could avoid riptides targeting at will my units from safety without giving up objectives completely. Or much of chance of any damage output as he would quickly redeploy everything out of LOS of lootas.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 11:27:28
tneva82 wrote: Well we play on different types of boards then. I just know that for example yesterday if lootas were forced to sit in place they would have struggled to shoot any meaningful targets with 48" range guns without giving easy access lines for opponents. And unless I camp myself to like one corner as tight as possible(making easy tri-point locking) they would also be able to shoot and assault other parts and I wouldn't have more than 1 or 2 objectives to control with. Easy recipe for defeat. Only way I would get more than 1-2 objectives would be use 3 objectives I get to place on one dz area and then HOPE I win 50-50 roll to be able to take that. If I don't...well then I might be lucky to have ONE objective to control...
As said. I had to use da jump to chase down LOS against riptide. There was no way I could draw LOS to riptides at will and there was no real way I could avoid riptides targeting at will my units from safety without giving up objectives completely. Or much of chance of any damage output as he would quickly redeploy everything out of LOS of lootas.
We aren't playing with Lootas. We aren't nearly as afraid of HBCs given the army is almost entirely T7 2+/5++.
Just stay in Aegis shooting until you are ready to Override. If they don't come out, don't Override, simple as that. Against Tau, most of the enemy focus is probably going to be on Crawlers anyway, actually. Another annoyance is them sniping Guardsmen with Smart Missiles. I guess my Kataphrons would also not like that.
Unless I am fighting a horde, I would never anchor on a table edge. I also would never intentionally place objectives in an asymmetrical fashion like that. I actually would try to place them in as accessible and visible a place as possible.
Also ironic is that the quote on the Riptide page is almost literally what I said before: "Launch an ambush not to slay, but rather to seize the initiative and thereby win the war." The key is board control, not just mindlessly killing things.
Suzuteo wrote: What's he going to do? Hide behind buildings while holding 2/6 objectives forever?
Approach into assault range of your firebase immune from your shooting thanks to LOS blocking and then pounce in. If you have multiple chaff units ahead he charges into one, tri-point another and is immune to shooting and then charges into bots. If there's no chaff charge bots as well.
Or control more like 4/6 objectives while you camp in that LOS blocked area and struggle to control more than 1 without exposing some of your army to his army who used LOS blocking to get close enough
Not realistic. For the past year, we've been doing almost nothing but make lists to make it hard to charge into your Robots. The only real threats were flying charges and hordes/tides, and one of those problems are gone now. That is why the Robot count in my lists have steadily creeped up, and now I doubt I would ever bring fewer than 5 to a table. The other 1300 or so points in my army support these Robots with either assault or mobile shooting. Before, it was a Knight, Blood Angels, and Crawlers. Now, it is Kataphrons, who may well outdamage your Robots anyway. I mean, have you seen what 3x Icarus Crawlers can do to a unit of Shining Spears, Tau Battlesuits, or Blood Angels?
Really, my worries now have to deal with all the weird new tricks armies have to get in close, to shoot from outside 36" range, and whether or not I have enough Catachans to win ObSec fights.
Well we play on different types of boards then. I just know that for example yesterday if lootas were forced to sit in place they would have struggled to shoot any meaningful targets with 48" range guns without giving easy access lines for opponents. And unless I camp myself to like one corner as tight as possible(making easy tri-point locking) they would also be able to shoot and assault other parts and I wouldn't have more than 1 or 2 objectives to control with. Easy recipe for defeat. Only way I would get more than 1-2 objectives would be use 3 objectives I get to place on one dz area and then HOPE I win 50-50 roll to be able to take that. If I don't...well then I might be lucky to have ONE objective to control...
As said. I had to use da jump to chase down LOS against riptide. There was no way I could draw LOS to riptides at will and there was no real way I could avoid riptides targeting at will my units from safety without giving up objectives completely. Or much of chance of any damage output as he would quickly redeploy everything out of LOS of lootas.
For once and the first time ever, i actually agree with Tneva! Line of sight are such key things with my games. The ground floor of ruins are all blocked meaning you cant see through them and we reguarily use a huge piece of line of sight blocking terrain big enough to obscure knights and wraight knights. Well yes we arent afraid of HBC Riptides like Orkz, Tneva is right in saying that mobility is huge for the lootastar. Having Da Jump allows them to always get line of sight when they need it, you should always be moving in this game. As for objectives, from looking at the new chapter approved missions, they are already pre-placed. One in each centre of a table corner, one in the middle that gets smaller each turn, etc, etc. We wont have the luxury of placing objectives in optimal posistions to sit and castle with double tap mode.
Usually i wouldnt have bothered with many infantry and fast elements, but now more than ever we need these aspects in our lists. Double tapping isnt just a must do thing turn 1 anymore. I have a match later on tonight vs my friends kabal and coven list and i will be using a new chapter approved mission, i will let you guys know how it goes.
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
MrMoustaffa wrote: By not breaking the robots legs with the override and just switching them in manually, you now have options. If you get charged turn 1, you're not just stuck there and have to deal with it, you can switch back to having legs and fall back because you can switch to aegis before they have to move. If you don't like your position because someone like orks or eldar pulled reposition shenanigans after deployment was done but before first turn begins, you can react to that. If you realize you want those bots in the middle of the table parked on an objective after your turn one volley, you can do that. Heck you can even start game in aegis, start of your first turn use relic to switch them to protector for first turn volley. Next in turn 2 you switch them back to aegis, move them up to an objective or good firing position, and then use the override to put them back in protector mode at the start of your second shooting phase. Or leave them in aegis, or even go conqueror if need be, whatever.
Aren't the protocols change activated in the next movement phase though? Because, while switching it on and off surely makes repositioning viable, it doesn't really make viable choice of Falling Back, as it would take 3 turns to shoot (1- being charged and switch, 2- Fall Back, 3- able to shoot; assuming we're not playing Metallica/Graia with a WL around). The "switch to Aegis and move turn 2" wouldn't be able as well, as until turn 2 switching it to Protector wouldn't even happen if you declared the switch turn 1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 13:24:56
What do you guys think of Ruststalkers right now? As they are now 14p with blades I was thinking of running a squad of 7 as a bodyguard and countercharge unit for my kastelans. What about a Dragoons? They have amazing synergy with +2 to hit, but I only own one, so I guess Ruststalkers do more pointswise although the +1 to LD might help my vanguards
Line of sight are such key things with my games. The ground floor of ruins are all blocked meaning you cant see through them and we reguarily use a huge piece of line of sight blocking terrain big enough to obscure knights and wraight knights. Well yes we arent afraid of HBC Riptides like Orkz, Tneva is right in saying that mobility is huge for the lootastar. Having Da Jump allows them to always get line of sight when they need it, you should always be moving in this game. As for objectives, from looking at the new chapter approved missions, they are already pre-placed. One in each centre of a table corner, one in the middle that gets smaller each turn, etc, etc. We wont have the luxury of placing objectives in optimal posistions to sit and castle with double tap mode.
