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U02dah4 wrote:
Yes im running brigade+battalion and still feel short on CP.

14 unsaved shots would only require 14 6's if your aim was to not lose a model.

As to multi W yes and no 1 roll negates the attack reguardless of damage so a 6 dam las cannon shot can be negated by 1 role but it wont trigger unless the model dies

Even if that was 5 consecutive 6s to save 2-3 models, to scale the things into more down-to-earth proportion, it's not very likely to happen. My nose tell me Onager would rather appreciate 16% chance to negate each wound received, instead of 16% chance to negate being slain (and operate on the bottom bracket). Maybe in a really big horde of the Skitarii Graia could make the difference, or numerous big blobs of Electro-Priests as Graia can stack with their FnP. If Graia proced after all attacks were resolved (or even better, in the Necron style - at the end of the phase/round), that would be a completely different story and a very useful dogma. But otherwise... meh. It's a stratagem choice for me and nothing else.

There are plenty of examples where a 5 man squad takes two unsaved and only loses 1 as a result net across the game it adds up but if you overkill to a certain point it will still die.

Yes onagers and ballistarii benefit more from stgyies because they are at always at the back

Priests vanguard infiltrators tend to not benefit in turn due to being too close.

So yes it is a question of army comp.

A skilled oponent however will ignore your onagers untill they are within 12"

I think the worthwhile pure FWs are Stygies and Graia. The first is generally useful except against some key matchups. The second is great for infantry. The save roll applies to the wound itself, by the way, not each point of damage. Combined with Shroudpsalm, it makes for tough infantry, especially when you combine with Acquisition stratagem.

All the FWs are good for mixed detachments except Metallica. But Mars, Ryza, and Agripinaa are especially good. It's all about stratagems here. I like Mars Infiltrators, Ryza Plasmaphrons, and b Agripinaa Icarus Crawlers (especially when paired with Knights because bikes are the Knights' bane.).

Agripinaa Crawlers? Because of Eye relic?

Yeah as a guy who runs pure Metallica you're really only running it for vanguard, maybe the electropriests, and the warlord trait. Strategem and relic are pretty bad, and due to brilliance by the author 90% of our weapons and gear don't even interact with it. Perhaps the Cybernetica cohort strategem will give us a legitimate competitive reason to be run with Kastelan bots but I doubt it. I don't see it crushing tournaments but a big deathball of 6 charging up the field in aegis mode and then standing their ground in the midfield will probably be fine for casual games. That said even if they do prove to be very good, you now have a whopping 3 units that gain any real use out of Metalica. Compared to the abilities other pure or even mixed forces provide I'm not sure it's worth it. I'm going to test ideas for kastelan and Destroyers heavy lists that involves pushing up the board, but what it'll gain in mobility probably won't quite make up for the raw firepower Ryza gives or the durability something like agripinna can do. By the time you consider both formations, strafing run, elimination volley, and Noospheric Mindlock, you're talking 7cp to get one good volley from the bots and the destroyers. Itll be a heck of a punch, but if it whiffs most of your cp is gone and it encourages big chunky deathstars that are easy to get sight on and kill. The only other trick we then provide over other FW is falling back and shooting, which admittedly will be very important if you plan on aggressively pushing up the center. Problem is you need to survive the assault so you can fall back. And if for whatever reason formations aren't allowed, congrats, there's no reason to run them as Metallica anymore.

I run Metallica purely because my army is painted that way and if I want to run competitive I already have a ton of guard and knights. I enjoy the challenge and its really helped me think outside the box with Admech, but I'll be the first to tell you it's a really niche trait. If GW would fix our trait to also affect heavy weapons it'd be an awesome, you could have a far more mobile Admech army, but until that day it's not very good. Every list I make feels like it does well in spite of my trait, not because of it.

 lash92 wrote:
Agripinaa Crawlers? Because of Eye relic?

Yeah. Against flying, Dominus + Agripinaa relic beats Cawl alone (or ties) aside from shooting -2 to hit.

Those of you heading to the LVO, have you finalised your lists yet and when do they have to be submitted?

Cheers

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Those of you heading to the LVO, have you finalised your lists yet and when do they have to be submitted?

Cheers

I haven't finalized mine yet. They need to be uploaded by January 25th I think.

What unit size for LC Ironstriders do you guys recommend?

I would recommend 4-6 to get the stratagem efficiency for them.

I would recommend 3x1 to fill out a brigade.

The 4-6 is great if your going strat them but their are better things to spend CP on

Off topic:
If I increase the Strength for example for servitors via canticles.
Does the x2 strength from the servoarm count afterwards or before? so has a a strengh value of 7 or 8?

It´s before, so S8.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:
I would recommend 3x1 to fill out a brigade.

The 4-6 is great if your going strat them but their are better things to spend CP on

´

I feel like tripple Batallion for my soup is more worth it then mechanicus brigade, especially since I want to keep it mono forgeworld.
Also 1 CP is fine with me.

U02dah4 wrote:
I would recommend 3x1 to fill out a brigade.

The 4-6 is great if your going strat them but their are better things to spend CP on

True. If you want to run a Stygies Brigade or something, 3x1 Ballistarii is a good choice. We actually have a very cheap Brigade.

 0XFallen wrote:
Off topic:
If I increase the Strength for example for servitors via canticles.
Does the x2 strength from the servoarm count afterwards or before? so has a a strengh value of 7 or 8?

Keep in mind that the weapons that modify Strength do not have their own Strength at all. So it has to be S8. There is literally no way to make it S7.

Just coming back to the path of the Omnissiah after several years in the wilderness. Here is my first attempt at a list - any feedback greatly appreciated

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus)
Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus - Monitor Malevolus, Raiment of the Technomartyr
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
5x5 Rangers - 3xTransuranic Arquebus

Fast Attack
4x Sydonian Dragoon -Phosphor Serpenta, Taser Lance

Heavy Support
3x Onager Dunecrawler - 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, 1x Icarus Array, 2x Neutron Laser


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus)
Forge World: Mars

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
2x 5x Skitarii Vanguard - 4x Plasma Caliver, 2x Taser Goad
1x 5x Skitarii Vanguards

Elites
2x 10x Sicarian Infiltrators - Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad

Dedicated Transport
Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill


Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes)
Selections: Black Templars

HQ
Captain on Bike - Storm shield, Thunder hammer, Twin boltgun
Vigilus/Sword Brethren Warlord Trait

Fast Attack
3x Tarantula Sentry Gun - Twin heavy bolter

_____________________________

Templars Smash Captain for budget (CP-wise) killyness and Graia-type denies.

Stygies to chill in the back and fire off Onager/Arquebus shots on re-roll 1s; Dragoons to charge up the middle or be a good distratction; 2x other Ranger squads to grab objectives and fill up space.

Mars deepstriking for re-roll 1s plasma and Wrath of Mars on the Infiltrators (one Vanguard squad as front line defense for the mini-castle)

Thanks in advance!

 lash92 wrote:
It´s before, so S8.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:
I would recommend 3x1 to fill out a brigade.

The 4-6 is great if your going strat them but their are better things to spend CP on

´

I feel like tripple Batallion for my soup is more worth it then mechanicus brigade, especially since I want to keep it mono forgeworld.
Also 1 CP is fine with me.

Im not a fan of 400+pts of HQ assuming your not multifactioning


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As ro the list dont taser goad the vanguard its not worth it and you could do with more arquebuses if you want consistancy

I intend on running multi faction. Most likely AdMech + Guard + BA. Maybe just AdMech + BA.

I have my first ITC game (1750) on Friday, and still not quite sure what to bring.

TheMortician wrote:
Just coming back to the path of the Omnissiah after several years in the wilderness. Here is my first attempt at a list - any feedback greatly appreciated

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus)
Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus - Monitor Malevolus, Raiment of the Technomartyr
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
5x5 Rangers - 3xTransuranic Arquebus

Fast Attack
4x Sydonian Dragoon -Phosphor Serpenta, Taser Lance

Heavy Support
3x Onager Dunecrawler - 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, 1x Icarus Array, 2x Neutron Laser


Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus)
Forge World: Mars

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
2x 5x Skitarii Vanguard - 4x Plasma Caliver, 2x Taser Goad
1x 5x Skitarii Vanguards

Elites
2x 10x Sicarian Infiltrators - Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad

Dedicated Transport
Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill


Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes)
Selections: Black Templars

HQ
Captain on Bike - Storm shield, Thunder hammer, Twin boltgun
Vigilus/Sword Brethren Warlord Trait

Fast Attack
3x Tarantula Sentry Gun - Twin heavy bolter

_____________________________

Templars Smash Captain for budget (CP-wise) killyness and Graia-type denies.

Stygies to chill in the back and fire off Onager/Arquebus shots on re-roll 1s; Dragoons to charge up the middle or be a good distratction; 2x other Ranger squads to grab objectives and fill up space.

Mars deepstriking for re-roll 1s plasma and Wrath of Mars on the Infiltrators (one Vanguard squad as front line defense for the mini-castle)

Thanks in advance!

Why not do a Blender Captain?

Sword Brethren formation
Captain w/ Jump Pack (4A) (or Bike)
Bolt Pistol
Chainsword (+1A) + Relic: Teeth of Terra (+D3A)
WLT: Master Swordsman (+1A, +1 hit on roll of 6)
Suffer Not the Unclean to Live (2 CP): +1A, reroll wounds
Honour the Chapter (3 CP): Fight again

Otherwise, BA Smash Captains are still better because of the ignore OW and the consistency that Lemartes offers.

You might want some anti-Psyker defense. Is that Mars dogma really that valuable? If not, how about making some of those units Graia for the stratagem access?

I was thinking of using a single knight errant with chainsword and thermal cannon for some anti tank in a super heavy aux. detachment.
Though I read that they dont get household rules if they arent at least 3 knights, is that true? can I make a single knight worth it?
If yes how?

 0XFallen wrote:
I was thinking of using a single knight errant with chainsword and thermal cannon for some anti tank in a super heavy aux. detachment.
Though I read that they dont get household rules if they arent at least 3 knights, is that true? can I make a single knight worth it?
If yes how?

If you take a single knight you lose the household trait but keep relics, strategems, and potentially wlt. If you're looking to ally knights but keep the household trait that usually means taking 2 armigers to fill out a super heavy detachment, or doing something like triple gallant.

In the grand scheme of things, if you're allying in knights it's probably not for the household trait so much as the other abilities.

If you want to run a single knight you either do it as a freeblade or pick a knight where the strategems, relics, and abilities are very powerful. The Raven Castellan is a good example, everyone runs it for order of companions. They don't really care if it can advance and shoot so much as they care about rerolling all the 1's.

 0XFallen wrote:
I was thinking of using a single knight errant with chainsword and thermal cannon for some anti tank in a super heavy aux. detachment.
Though I read that they dont get household rules if they arent at least 3 knights, is that true? can I make a single knight worth it?
If yes how?

A Krast Styrix is basically an Errant, but better in virtually every way because the Ion Bulwark is built-in and its gun has superior range, consistency, and power. The secondaries are also very strong.

Looking for some advice on my first ITC list (1750 points):

### Stygies Batallion
- TPD + TPE
- 15 Skitarii
- 2 x Icarus Crawler
- 4 x Dragoon
- 4 - LC Ironstrider


### BA Batallion
- Smash Cpt
- Mephiston
- 15 Scouts


### Guard Batallion
- 2 Officers
- 30 Infantry
- 2 x 3 Mortar teams

 lash92 wrote:
Looking for some advice on my first ITC list (1750 points):

Spoiler:

### Stygies Batallion
- TPD + TPE
- 15 Skitarii
- 2 x Icarus Crawler
- 4 x Dragoon
- 4 - LC Ironstrider


### BA Batallion
- Smash Cpt
- Mephiston
- 15 Scouts

### Guard Batallion
- 2 Officers
- 30 Infantry
- 2 x 3 Mortar teams

I am worried that you won't be able to clear a Catachan screen in time for your Smash Captains to make a difference. That seems to be the only serious plan to deal with Knights. 4x Lascannon Ballistarii aren't going to cut it.

Maybe cut the Scouts? You don't actually need them, since you aren't doing a Dakkabot list.

TheMortician wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! I like the Blender Captain idea, I'd just be slightly worried against Knights. I'll magnetise and try both and see what works best.

Hopefully good positioning of the captain may give me the psychic defense for the first two rounds. I agree that the Mars dogma is pointless, but I believe the Dominus can only buff same <Forgeworld> and I'm hoping to use the re-roll 1's on both the plasma Vanguards and the Infiltrators (for maximum mortals). Nothing to stop me making the bare bones Vanguard Graia that said, and that would give me two potential denials a phase (different strategems).

Thanks again!

Alas, Blender Captain probably will only shine in a future where MEQs are good. I think Shield Captains and Smash Captains are still the best Imperium choices these days.

Fair point. What would you suggest for Screen clearing in a non Dakkabot list?

Infiltrators are probably your best bet here. Soften up a target best you can with Mortars and such. You DS them and the Smash Captain in. Try to blow a hole, charge in. Fortunately, you don't need too much room, but it can be tough if they interlock multiple squads together.

Ok, so what would you think about this type of list?

Mars Battalion - Servitor detachment
Cawl
TPD - Biosplicing

5 Rangers with 2 Arquebus and Omnispex
6 Plasma Destroyers with Flammers
6 Breachers with Arc Rifles

4 Servitors
4 Servitors
8 inflitraors flecetts

2 Icaurs Crawler
1 Neutron Crawler

Stygies Battalion
2 Enginseers

5 Vanguard
5 Vanguard
5 Vanguard

2 Lasbalistarii
4 Dragoons

1991pts and 9cp after I get the special detachment and give the destroyers the 5+ invun.

I think the Dominus and the Enginseers I should be able to heal up wounded Kataphrons then bring back slain ones and heal up them to keep the squads almost starting size over the course of a game, hopefully, I do think I want them as Mars just to help their accuracy and get the two canticles I guess or do I go mixed forges to use all the startagems? Maybe I don't need three crawlers with all the kataprhrons and the Lasbalistarii's, I could go with two and free up some more troops points?

At this point I would go for a mixed brigade.
Skitarii Graia, Stygies Dragoons, Ryza plasma, mars infiltrators.

I want to mainly stick to admech, but as we dont have many choices I want to put a knight in for 2k points or higher. We Lack mobility, antitank and CC capabilities so I want him to fill as many holes as possible.
What would be good traits and relics to run then for -2cp? Should I run him as a freeblade, is it worth? And do I pick or roll for them to get 1 more or less respectivly and which ones to pick?
Here my current list:

Hoplites or Peltasts: do people like either one of them?