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Whenever I use the Breachers I regret not having anything else. They are sturdy alright, but their firepower and melee is lacking. Yet I see more and more people to praise them - what do I do wrong? What's the trick?

This is why I think 1 squad is solid. They aren't much more than extra anti-tank shooting and reasonable cc unit that's durable. It basically allows you to bail out/defend your more important bits and 7 of them is worth more than 30 infantry to do so. But I wouldn't use more than 1 squad. Their value is also dependent for me on if you are using them in conjuction with cawl or going stygies. I don't like most of the other set ups.

i use 4x4 breachers atm with hydralic claw . and ofc 8-9 plasmaphrons and 3-4 Robots and all the rest flavor.Manipulus Cawl
and always always assasin.

Did you feel like you were lacking non LOS shooting Hulksmash? Or did you compensate with those infiltrators for the lack of say mortars or a Wyvern?

Are you playing solo Mars Yoda?

Its offset by all the deepstriking for me. And mortars dont do solid work against me so I haven't needed a way to take them out turn 1. Plus the list tends to overkill by a bit.

Los is an issue and I struggled initially when I removed the mortars and all deep strike .

Adding an assassin increased my resultts 30% since I can

A) ad sniperr on top f my snipers making a force vs any hrd char buffer army.
B) ad cp Burne assasin somewhat keeps cp hungry and alpha strike a bit controlled
C) gives me back cp I if played correctly .
D) deep strke options etc.

Yet I was overkill first two rounds and struggled a bit later on .

Manipulus gave more aggressive deeploy and enemy defensive dplys that actually increased my movement a lot.
B) started l play split units on breachers gave me more board control while + move from manipulus offered speed options .

And I added 5-8 one group infiltrators is a must.
A) might have lost robots and need to kill a camping iinfsnty
B) use them for like breaker
C) just for kill enemy chars are high invu with wom.
And ofc they are being used cause of marrs fg.

Yes I play 100% Mars I m trying a twist lately maybe I could add one graia but don't really need it .maybe if I go for cp maximize if could ad an Agripiina mixed detchmenrt still testing .

2x6 agripinaa breachers for me.

Shooting it depends what your firing at always target a vehicle if you can.

As to combat they will trounce an infantry squad just not a dedicated melee unit.

Their main strength is their durability especially when they come back from the dead

You should also try an Eversors, he is a real killer and also good against things like Genestealer who want to tie up your Robots.

Are Plasmaphrons even really worth without Ryza? Sure you gain full rerolls from Cawl but losing the Ryza stratagem seems not worth it for me.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Multiple knights being run aggressively at us with a balance of cc and shooting would have been the terror of my LVO list. The requirement to stop the cc ones means free rounds of shooting from the castellan to kill the stuff able to kill it before you finish the charging knights. This has the ability on average to knock out 1.5-2 knights in a single go so going first is almost an instant win but being able to play through it going second.

7 has just felt right. 6 feels like opponents will target because they can get thru it and 9+ makes them a target because of how good they are and because you can force your opponent into cp usage to not lose them all. 7-8 just feels good from those perspectives.

As for the dagger I think it's the fact that gw intends for it to be a regiment based item but wrote it poorly. But it didnt matter much until the recent admech point drop because no one really used it that way. Admech and people using it for plasma put it back on their radars. It's just something to make sure you ask about before going to a 2 day event as you dont want to get surprised by a judge ruling.

Oh, and the vanguard go in the drills.

Sure. Every TO I have asked thus far has declined to make an alternate ruling from the RAW. But I am curious about your case. So your TO house rules it so that the Dagger's "if the bearer has [a Regiment]" case is actually a condition: "the bearer must have a Regiment"? While I can see that achieving the desired effect, it doesn't seem RAI either. I think the least intrusive would be to add a "Astra Militarum" condition to the target of the Dagger. But until then, I find it hard to argue against RAW. And really, it's not even the most ridiculous rules lawyering benefit out there. Ynnari as a faction is built on favorable rulings.

Interesting. So Blandguard in a Drill.

dadamowsky wrote:Whenever I use the Breachers I regret not having anything else. They are sturdy alright, but their firepower and melee is lacking. Yet I see more and more people to praise them - what do I do wrong? What's the trick?

I think it's a playstyle thing. Breachers seem to be this low key, jack-of-all-trades unit with nice cost efficiencies. Basically, they are Terminators+. I also struggle to use these sorts of generalized tools because I really like having units for specific purposes. I do recognize though that having generalized tools can be useful in TAC because it improves consistency in extreme matchups. So Breachers might not be the best for anti-tank or for melee, but they won't ever be totally useless.

Yoda79 wrote:Los is an issue and I struggled initially when I removed the mortars and all deep strike .

Adding an assassin increased my resultts 30% since I can

A) ad sniperr on top f my snipers making a force vs any hrd char buffer army.
B) ad cp Burne assasin somewhat keeps cp hungry and alpha strike a bit controlled
C) gives me back cp I if played correctly .
D) deep strke options etc.

Yet I was overkill first two rounds and struggled a bit later on .

Manipulus gave more aggressive deeploy and enemy defensive dplys that actually increased my movement a lot.
B) started l play split units on breachers gave me more board control while + move from manipulus offered speed options .

And I added 5-8 one group infiltrators is a must.
A) might have lost robots and need to kill a camping iinfsnty
B) use them for like breaker
C) just for kill enemy chars are high invu with wom.
And ofc they are being used cause of marrs fg.

Yes I play 100% Mars I m trying a twist lately maybe I could add one graia but don't really need it .maybe if I go for cp maximize if could ad an Agripiina mixed detchmenrt still testing .

I don't own any Assassins, but I am definitely considering them now...

I also really like the Manipulus. It's 60 points well spent because of how much flexibility they give you turns one and two. Also work really well with Breachers probably, given they have only D3 advance.

I actually also arrived at 8 Infiltrators being the optimal size to reliably delete key infantry targets with Wrath of Mars. 10 is too many.

lash92 wrote:Are Plasmaphrons even really worth without Ryza? Sure you gain full rerolls from Cawl but losing the Ryza stratagem seems not worth it for me.

Lol no. They are glass cannons that beta strike super hard. A unit of 6 can put 11 wounds on average on a Castellan. I have killed two Riptides in a single turn too.

last game Tau i filed 4 robots and 9 plasmaphrons besides the breachers.

Since i had manipulus and i was playing first my opponent saw he could not hide all riptides in the corner i was in range with 42" robots. He hide one and the rest remained in range he filed them agreesively in front.

Round one elimination volley on plasma and robots .Wrath of mars on robots. Used 2 robots to eliminate all drones with wrath of mars and rest of basic shooting . Rest robots on riptide. Then 2 plasma on remaining riptide and 7 on the other one. End of round one 2 riptides dead all drones dead .Snipers and sniper assasin took ethereal and a commander .Game over.
then breachers too over all the board infiltrators end the gam round 3 deep strike with wom on last group of deep strike force. GG. And i dont have to mention that against vehicles its even more dedlier cause 15+ breachers shoot 30 volley of rerolling all hits at 42" vs knights usually and every single one that pass its D6 damage.
Hydralic claw is d3 melee damage enough to take anything down.
atm i have 8 hydralic and 8 with out .

TEsting atm 9 plasmaphrons with flamers and infoskull sick.... i v started to eliminate hordes and deep striking forces like orcs easier im missing like 15-30 points to test them all in one list.

Hydraulic claws hit on a 5 though, thats gross lol

I may invest in breachers, i do like them, their ws/bs 4 is palatable at their points cost, though i do wish they benefited from Mindlock like regular servitors.

im starting to get an admech army together, though i havnt purchased most things yet (got a starter box and 2x Admech half of a set box i bought off someone else for cheap)

Should i even bother with electropriests? Expensive $$$ wise and i just fear im never gonna get anything out of them because they are so immensely deadly if allowed to reach melee, and not that hard to kill before they do. Mainly decided to run them so i have something to walk with my Warglaives.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
im starting to get an admech army together, though i havnt purchased most things yet (got a starter box and 2x Admech half of a set box i bought off someone else for cheap)

Should i even bother with electropriests? Expensive $$$ wise and i just fear im never gonna get anything out of them because they are so immensely deadly if allowed to reach melee, and not that hard to kill before they do. Mainly decided to run them so i have something to walk with my Warglaives.

I own 20, and struggle to get the best out of them. They need the drill now and to be stygies from what I’ve witnessed. Previously I tried anything other than Lucius and they get shot off the board, take them as Lucius and they always fail the 9” charge...

So take up to 12 stygies priests in a drill seems to be the best way to make them reach their target. I’m still undecided on them though for a competitive game.

Yeah that was the only way i felt "safe" using them, though i refuse to pay 130USD for that drill (stupid localization price hykes...wish i could still pay BP and just deal with the long shipping).
Shouldnt be that hard to kitbash some since its...basically a soda can with drillnose and 6 tracks lol. But low priority since i got a lot on my plate to build/paint as it is.
Maybe i should omit the priests for now.

You could also take Lucius shooty priest and deepstrike them in. They put out a good amount of dakka.

You can try 20 DSed in Lucius and Manipulus with the Solar Flare to help them charge. Great if the charge succeeds, but an expensive flop when doesn't. Drill gives more constistency, if you're willing to wait until turn 3 with the charge (or earlier if deployment allows the Stygies Infiltration shenanigans).

20 Lucius Corpuscarii though... I confirm it being my favorite toy lately. Anything with T5 and below is in serious trouble if you manage to put 60 tesla into it. The problem is with their 12" range and large footprint - they require quite a lot space to land in the range.

Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

If you fancy 9" charge... They fail more often than not in my experience, which is why I tend to run Drill as a waiting place and 3" trampoline for the 12 Fulgurites, instead of Lucius blob of 20.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

No, you cannot move after you have disembarked on the same turn as the drill arrives, because it arrives at the end of the Movement phase. Same goes for things like drop pods. You can shoot and charge normally of course.

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

No, you cannot move after you have disembarked on the same turn as the drill arrives, because it arrives at the end of the Movement phase. Same goes for things like drop pods. You can shoot and charge normally of course.

Edit: Dont use the deepstrike, scout move with stygies, use Disembark as a 3" trampoline and then move and charge.

 0XFallen wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

No, you cannot move after you have disembarked on the same turn as the drill arrives, because it arrives at the end of the Movement phase. Same goes for things like drop pods. You can shoot and charge normally of course.

Dont use the deepstrike, scout move with stygies, move with drill, disembark and charge

you have to disembark before the transport moves

Should i even bother with electropriests? Expensive $$$ wise and i just fear im never gonna get anything out of them because they are so immensely deadly if allowed to reach melee, and not that hard to kill before they do. Mainly decided to run them so i have something to walk with my Warglaives.

i run 15 as stygies with a manipulus, it allows a potential T1 charge with them, and if they fail it, they become a huge distraction carnifex that the opponnent HAS to deal with, they die more often than not, but that means my kataphrons/onagers/ballistarii dont get shot T1

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 0XFallen wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

No, you cannot move after you have disembarked on the same turn as the drill arrives, because it arrives at the end of the Movement phase. Same goes for things like drop pods. You can shoot and charge normally of course.

Dont use the deepstrike, scout move with stygies, move with drill, disembark and charge

you have to disembark before the transport moves

You could still get away with a T2 charge if the drill and its contents survive, it's a smidge tougher than a rhino and benefits from the forgeworld bonuses. No canticles though if i remember, you can always pop smoke though i think.

What priests really need is a way of advancing and charging or at least a charge re-roll or SOMETHING. I mean I know we're not an assault army and fulgurites are pretty deadly once you get them in, but man throw us a fricken bone on our mobility lol

 0XFallen wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Turn 3 with the charge? Drill allows them to disembark the turn it arrives, thats a T2 charge attempt (they can still move/charge after disembarking)

No, you cannot move after you have disembarked on the same turn as the drill arrives, because it arrives at the end of the Movement phase. Same goes for things like drop pods. You can shoot and charge normally of course.

Dont use the deepstrike, scout move with stygies, move with drill, disembark and charge

Good luck at hammer and anvil . Don't get me wrong, it's possible and sometimes it comes handy. But DS and tactical advantage of appearing anywhere on the table outweights a meagre 9" move straight into the counter-deployed lines, especially now when you put an entire army down. I gave up an Alpha strike idea anyway - Admech might be able to do it, but it's not very viable. At least in my gaming group. People here tend to dig deep in their deployments lately, or really counter-deploy their lines so any first turn charge would simply go to waste.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah that was the only way i felt "safe" using them, though i refuse to pay 130USD for that drill (stupid localization price hykes...wish i could still pay BP and just deal with the long shipping).
Shouldnt be that hard to kitbash some since its...basically a soda can with drillnose and 6 tracks lol. But low priority since i got a lot on my plate to build/paint as it is.
Maybe i should omit the priests for now.

AdMech P.S.A. - I've said it before and I'll repeat it here: Mantic / Warpath makes a plastic "Termite" for only about US$40. It's already cut off the sprues and so easy to assemble that they don't even include assembly instructions.

~US$40

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/veer-myn/product/tunneller.html

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah that was the only way i felt "safe" using them, though i refuse to pay 130USD for that drill (stupid localization price hykes...wish i could still pay BP and just deal with the long shipping).
Shouldnt be that hard to kitbash some since its...basically a soda can with drillnose and 6 tracks lol. But low priority since i got a lot on my plate to build/paint as it is.
Maybe i should omit the priests for now.

AdMech P.S.A. - I've said it before and I'll repeat it here: Mantic / Warpath makes a plastic "Termite" for only about US$40. It's already cut off the sprues and so easy to assemble that they don't even include assembly instructions.

~US$40

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/veer-myn/product/tunneller.html

Oh neat, i'll have to remember that. Those aint bad.

i run 15 as stygies with a manipulus, it allows a potential T1 charge with them, and if they fail it, they become a huge distraction carnifex that the opponnent HAS to deal with, they die more often than not, but that means my kataphrons/onagers/ballistarii dont get shot T1

This is one thing i was thinking about with the manipulus. Since he improves their movement by 1 and adds 1 to advance/charge rolls, that technically means the unit in question is moving +3" if he managed to keep up for the charge attempt correct?

This is one thing i was thinking about with the manipulus. Since he improves their movement by 1 and adds 1 to advance/charge rolls, that technically means the unit in question is moving +3" if he managed to keep up for the charge attempt correct?

+2" as you can't Advance and charge with anything in Admech. If you really want to Alpha strike then you can achieve 9" +5" in total - you Infiltrate the Drill and Manipulus, disembark Fulgurites with +3", move and charge with Manipulus' aura of bolster movement. If your opponent deployed at the edge of his zone in one of the long deployments, he gave you a gift of a very plausible charge to go off. And painful, 12 Fulgurites each Drill (as you can easily bring 2 Drill+Priest sets for most points ranges). That's definetely something to keep in mind, although...

Drill itself is not too beefy - it doesn't have the Canticles or invulnerable, and every point of rend hurts. Thus W10 is melting quick with all the anti-veh firepower people bring nowadays. If you've got a threat overload, Drill might survive not going first - otherwise you'll wish you DSed them.

Derp, right. Thats something thats probably gonna get me a few times since i mainly play orks and pretty much our entire codex can advance and charge, given the proper dude is around lol.
Thanks.

yeah, if you REALLY want a T1 charge, go with stygies dragoons. Admech has pretty much only decent units (the worse ones being the ruststalkers and corpuscarii) so youre free to build that list however you want. and as i said, even the threat pf getting a T2 charge with your fulgurites is a good thing, sacrificing units so others live is a sound strategy

VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, if you REALLY want a T1 charge, go with stygies dragoons. Admech has pretty much only decent units (the worse ones being the ruststalkers and corpuscarii) so youre free to build that list however you want. and as i said, even the threat pf getting a T2 charge with your fulgurites is a good thing, sacrificing units so others live is a sound strategy

With Corpuscarii being so bad that Nick Nanavati included 2x10 of them in this AdMech list in the beginning of 2019... ;-)

 lash92 wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, if you REALLY want a T1 charge, go with stygies dragoons. Admech has pretty much only decent units (the worse ones being the ruststalkers and corpuscarii) so youre free to build that list however you want. and as i said, even the threat pf getting a T2 charge with your fulgurites is a good thing, sacrificing units so others live is a sound strategy

With Corpuscarii being so bad that Nick Nanavati included 2x10 of them in this AdMech list in the beginning of 2019... ;-)

in what tournament? this is news to me. still, i didnt say they were bad, i said they were one of the worse we have in the codex. i dont feel like the units are the main problems with admech, its more of a relic/WT problem.