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That is not Heavy Stubbers btw.
Pretty sure that is Heavy Phosphor Blasters

My argument is not every open topped model actually gets open topped rules. Think of the big ol 40 man FW carrier guard gets for krieg. That doesn't get the open topped shooting rules. I could see this being the same way

Also if the transport gets heavy phosphors that will be amazing. They may be the smaller phosphor blasters the kataphrons get but even those aren't bad.

Its definitely a heavy stubber, phosphor blasters have 3 rings before the muzzle and heavy phosphor blasters have 2 rings. The flared muzzle is also seen on cognis heavy stubbers where as phosphor have a slit in their muzzle.

This vehicle will probably carry 12 models, with a movement of 12". It wont be open topped as their is no was the troops inside can fire out (look at the two gunners, they cant even pop their heads over the top). As for its profile i imagine it will be like a rhino with a couple more wounds due to its size. Points cost i think it will be more expensive than most transports, sitting somewhere in the 90 to 100pts range. It looks like it has an upgraded broad spectrum data tether (look at the size of its antennas!) so maybe it will give out a buff to nearby units that isnt just +1 morale. Im hoping it with have pseudo fly in that it can retreat and shoot or it can shoot its stubbers into anything its in melee with as a point defence system. It could also have a type of flare shield (knowing admech) so that may override any thoughts of it being opened topped.

As for the tank variant, i dont know how it will fair with its competitor the Onager. Its main rival will be a neutronager and atm this thing has 1 more stubber, a missile launcher of some sort (hopefully something better than just a standard krak missile) and a weapon to me that looks like a solid shot type of cannon with its muzzle break. It has the beginnings of neutron laser but the end totally throws that off so who knows... it doesnt look energy based to me. The other weapon type looks more interesting to me, it kind of looks like a Admechy Ion cannon or even some sort of quake cannon. This would allow it to achieve a different role that doesnt step on the toes of Balistarii and Onagers and could help more with heavier infantry. I imagine because of its heavier armoured front that this will be our toughness 8 vehicle with 13-14 wounds and once again it looks like it has an enhanced BSDT. It could very well buff near by vehicles with a buff to hit or wound (be it a reroll or a modifier). I suspect it will be pushing 180pts as in my eyes it kind of resembles a Plague Burst Crawler in that it is a heavy tank not a medium vehicle like a Onager.

What i am reallllllly hoping for is that these 2 vehicles warrant us a new codex that gives us some more tools to use and a buff to certain units (Ruststalkers, Enginseers) and adds some more units to our roaster (Skitarii HQ, a mobile cav type unit, kind of like GSC with their new bikes, a heavier infantry unit like praetorians and a infantry unit with heavy weapons ((the name escaped me of what they were called in the old lore, hyspasists i believe)) and include the Manipulus into the Codex officially with a updated points cost that makes him more viable and more like how they described him (in between a enginseer and dominus in cost). And this is also more of a wish list type of thing, i would also love to see use have the new servitor with grav cannon and the new tech priest avialable to us from that new box game coming out with the new primaris psyker, crusader and rogue trader.

I dont think they would just release 2 vehicles and leave it like that. CSM got a new book, i imagine Space Marines are close behind to get a new codex with their vanguard units and the new repulsor and then it will be us. We are one of the early gen codexes and you can really see it in our army design. Having a book more internally balanced like Dark Eldar, Eldar and GSC would be a dream come true for me.

We're dangerously close to wish listing and not tactics, but behind grey knights and marines, were definitely in need of a v2 codex. Between all the new units and the desperately needed tweaks to our FW traits and relics, we need it pretty bad. Plus our codex has been heavily faqd and has 4 new knights that need to be added as well

Lol. I don't think we've ever had it better. Our rules are bad, sure, but we pretty much have the most point efficient LOS shooting in the game other than pre-nerf Ynnari.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Lol. I don't think we've ever had it better. Our rules are bad, sure, but we pretty much have the most point efficient LOS shooting in the game other than pre-nerf Ynnari.

My 7th Ed Skitarii had it better We may very well have the most point efficient LOS shooting but thats relying solely on your Kastelans and if your like me you tend to go more towards a more fluid gunline that uses movement to best of its ability. That has always been the difference between us and Tau, we can move and still fire at peak efficiency whilst the greyskins have to hunker down, release a volley and then advance. Yeah Tau have Shas'O, Riptides (and FW toys) but most of what they have benefits from standing still. Thats what ive always loved about Skitarii, the relentless advance that would out shoot Guard and Tau, thats not so prevalent now.

So hopefully this new transport will breath some new life into our Skitarii instead of them just being a chaff wall. (i have 4 units of 10 Vanguard with 3 plasma calivers each that have been on the shelf since the start of 8th, i only use Rangers now).

I love the community
If it's not open-topped as I still believe (even if I had my doubts at first), there's still lots of use for this vehicle, given it's not costed absurdly. Let's assume it can transport all <Infantry> from our codex:

- Vanguards: a clear choice for me, their base gun is really good for a base gun, more than once drowning my target in S3 has produced results, and the 2D on 6s is really great. It's anecdotal but I wiped a squad of Hellblasters with 30 Radium shots + Cawl + WoM. Either way, a squad of 10 or two squads of 5 with full Plasma Calivers can be dangerous when disembarked. Plus, they can be used to help in CC by charging something you want to debuff with -1T along with a true CC unit.
- Rangers: why not, though their guns have a decent enough range. Disembarking them close range would be the equivalent of 20 bolter shots and this is not the most sought after weapon. I think they're already great on foot, I mostly use mine as Snipers or cheap screen either way.
- Infiltrators: depends how many fit inside, I estimate they'll take two spots so a min squad only. Could make a move of 11" plus 2d6 charge distance when disembarking so it's more reliable than DS charging.
- Ruststalkers: probably a big no, a unit of 5 is just way less good than 5 Fulgurites, I've shown the numbers, and it's likely to be able to fit 10 Priests for 5 Ruststalkers. Sorry you need better rules guys.
- Corpuscarii: an alternative to Lucius striking them ? Mass S5 shooting is arguably one of the best weapons as it can wound everything on a 3 or 5 max, disregarding Invulnerable saves by saturation. At 140 pts for 30 shots on target on average they'll be dangerous.
- Fulgurites: a net winner, they're already great in a Drill, but now they can disembark and move faster as it'll move faster than 8". I can see lists spamming them like the Berserker Rhino Rush already. It'll be like 160 + 100ish points for a Skorpius full of them.
- Hoplites: never played with them but I'm seriously considering despite 56€ for a squad. Give them +1S canticle and they hit like Autocannons on vehicles. 90 pts is cheap too, I'll proxy them once or twice to give myself an idea about them when the Skorpius hits the shelves.
- Peltasts: still don't understand how to use them. In the context of the Skorpius a squad of 10 could either fire 40 S3 shots at 12", 20 S3 mortar shots, or 10 S4 AP-2 shots at -1 to hit. In my meta they're not needed as there's almost no mortar player. Curious to hear your thoughts about them though.

Given the shape of the Skorpius it can be made into a LoS-blocking wall too, for protection of our gunline. Really can't wait to see its datasheet, I'll probably buy one on preorder.

Opened top and Kataphron would be amazing

Imagine sticking 6 Ryzaphrons in there. You’d have to snap off the occasional appendage but they are servitors and would cope

Well, nothing can beat the crazy amount of free stuff and perks we got from WarCon.

Actually, as of CA 2018, Kataphrons are the most efficient shooting unit. And we have Lascannon Ballistarii, which are great for shooting down aircraft and tanks at scale. Or Icarus Crawlers, for those that want to save some CP.

I mean, consider that the price for 3x Predators (12 Lascannons) is 540 points to our 480 points, and they aren't squadroned, but you need to take 3x to use the Killshot stratagem (which is not as great as +2 to hit; and once one dies, you instantly lose it), and they have damage tables. Even 12x Lascannons for Guard Heavies would cost 312, and they are wayyy less durable and the best bonus they get for their BS4 is +1 for a 3x unit (but they have to be Vostroyan).

Anyhow, Kastelans are still a good "fix-it-all" solution, though we definitely don't need to run 6 anymore.

 Aaranis wrote:
I love the community

Spoiler:

If it's not open-topped as I still believe (even if I had my doubts at first), there's still lots of use for this vehicle, given it's not costed absurdly. Let's assume it can transport all <Infantry> from our codex:

- Vanguards: a clear choice for me, their base gun is really good for a base gun, more than once drowning my target in S3 has produced results, and the 2D on 6s is really great. It's anecdotal but I wiped a squad of Hellblasters with 30 Radium shots + Cawl + WoM. Either way, a squad of 10 or two squads of 5 with full Plasma Calivers can be dangerous when disembarked. Plus, they can be used to help in CC by charging something you want to debuff with -1T along with a true CC unit.
- Rangers: why not, though their guns have a decent enough range. Disembarking them close range would be the equivalent of 20 bolter shots and this is not the most sought after weapon. I think they're already great on foot, I mostly use mine as Snipers or cheap screen either way.
- Infiltrators: depends how many fit inside, I estimate they'll take two spots so a min squad only. Could make a move of 11" plus 2d6 charge distance when disembarking so it's more reliable than DS charging.
- Ruststalkers: probably a big no, a unit of 5 is just way less good than 5 Fulgurites, I've shown the numbers, and it's likely to be able to fit 10 Priests for 5 Ruststalkers. Sorry you need better rules guys.
- Corpuscarii: an alternative to Lucius striking them ? Mass S5 shooting is arguably one of the best weapons as it can wound everything on a 3 or 5 max, disregarding Invulnerable saves by saturation. At 140 pts for 30 shots on target on average they'll be dangerous.
- Fulgurites: a net winner, they're already great in a Drill, but now they can disembark and move faster as it'll move faster than 8". I can see lists spamming them like the Berserker Rhino Rush already. It'll be like 160 + 100ish points for a Skorpius full of them.
- Hoplites: never played with them but I'm seriously considering despite 56€ for a squad. Give them +1S canticle and they hit like Autocannons on vehicles. 90 pts is cheap too, I'll proxy them once or twice to give myself an idea about them when the Skorpius hits the shelves.
- Peltasts: still don't understand how to use them. In the context of the Skorpius a squad of 10 could either fire 40 S3 shots at 12", 20 S3 mortar shots, or 10 S4 AP-2 shots at -1 to hit. In my meta they're not needed as there's almost no mortar player. Curious to hear your thoughts about them though.

Given the shape of the Skorpius it can be made into a LoS-blocking wall too, for protection of our gunline. Really can't wait to see its datasheet, I'll probably buy one on preorder.

Im going to stick by the idea that it definitively isnt opened topped. There is no way anyone inside can shoot out, when you look at vehicles that are opened topped (Venoms, Raiders, Trukks, Battlewagons, Goliath Trucks) these all have sections where the men embarked can actually shoot out of, this boat doesnt. As for the most optimal units it could carry, I will go for Vanguard, both types of Electropriests and Ruststalkers. Rangers, Kataphrons both have the range to stay in a good firing lane and rain down lead, Infiltrators have their own ability to deepstrike which whilst it can be screened out, we can easily remove screens as Admech so they should still be used as a surgical strike.

I really reallyyyy think Hoplites and Peltasts will not be able to go in the Dunerider due to not having the Forgeworld Keyword (unless they get an update from FW when and if we get a new codex). The likely hood is that GW hasnt designed this transport with those two forge world units in mind. If they were however, then both types would also be key units to slap inside. The transport will most likely count Kataphrons as 3 models for the purposes of transport space or not allow them to be transported entirely so who knows, i personally wouldnt throw them in there, others might.

Vanguard will benefit hugely as they can then mitigate their short range (if your not Metalica), disembark and bring radiums and calivers to bare. Fulgurites will be the next clear winner with them getting a safe ride up to the front that isnt a FW Terrax Drill. Corpuscarii would be ok in it, especially for mars players using Wrath of Mars on them, but they wouldnt be my go to pick. Rust Stalkers would benefit from the transport but they are in a conflicting role with Fulgurites that just do everything they do better. Rust Stalkers need to get an improvement or we need to see the return of Dunestrider so they can get a +3" to advance and then be allowed to charge after. They should be more like Genestealers which would make them more viable and fearsome.

If it lets me make use of my Vanguard more efficiently i will gladly take 1 or 2, I would love nothing more than having them like the good ol' days in 7th but that will never happen with the changes to both radium carbines and plasma calivers this addition.

What an absolutely hideous vehicle.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, nothing can beat the crazy amount of free stuff and perks we got from WarCon.

Actually, as of CA 2018, Kataphrons are the most efficient shooting unit. And we have Lascannon Ballistarii, which are great for shooting down aircraft and tanks at scale. Or Icarus Crawlers, for those that want to save some CP.

I mean, consider that the price for 3x Predators (12 Lascannons) is 540 points to our 480 points, and they aren't squadroned, but you need to take 3x to use the Killshot stratagem (which is not as great as +2 to hit; and once one dies, you instantly lose it), and they have damage tables. Even 12x Lascannons for Guard Heavies would cost 312, and they are wayyy less durable and the best bonus they get for their BS4 is +1 for a 3x unit (but they have to be Vostroyan).

Anyhow, Kastelans are still a good "fix-it-all" solution, though we definitely don't need to run 6 anymore.

I never actually used WarCon wasnt my thing, i was always more Skitarii than Cult Mechanicus. I quite often smashed apart WarCons with just my normal Skits! I did use Cawl when he came out and i made use of the relic servo skull that gave tank hunter or monster hunter. Ive only really started using Kataphrons now because CA2018 and the Servitor Maniple, if it werent for that theyd still be in my display cabinet gathering dust.

Yea i agree Balistarii are pretty dag good and so are plasma Destroyers now, I do have the magnetised options for the Icarus Array but I have always been a Neutron lover myself, ive had my Onagers 1 shot Plague Burst Crawlers, Leman Russ Tank Commanders, Hemlocks, Ravagers and Wave Serpents. And it happens more often than not, maybe the Onagers love me (I have 9... sadly we can no longer squadron them...). When ive used the Icarus Array i dont really get as good as a return with them and i cant remember any amazing kill shots ive had with them when compared to my Neutron Lasers. But if they work for other people thats great! I never shun people would use the Icarus Array, i think they are both equally good in what they do.

 ph34r wrote:
What an absolutely hideous vehicle.

I actually think that's a part of the appeal of AdMech. We have so many bizarre, hideous design motifs. A scuttling (and now hovering) tide of mechanical horrors.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
What an absolutely hideous vehicle.

I actually think that's a part of the appeal of AdMech. We have so many bizarre, hideous design motifs. A scuttling (and now hovering) tide of mechanical horrors.

The only thing i would remove is the 2 rudders at the back. They look quite silly, and yeaaaah they steer the vehicle but i would rather have the ancient techdohicky propel the vehicle just like the MTT Droid Carrier, BAW Heavy Artillery Gun and AAT from Star Wars.

So we think these things are going to be in the 110-140 points bracket?

I would love an opportunity to field my electro priests. Here is hoping they have value again

Considering using rangers over vanguards, remember that yes they do have better shoots in RF range, but thats just 15". It will often mean that if you have RF range, so will your opponent. Using vanguards at outskirts of their range was always crucial, so they won't e charged easily, and won't receive rf shoots without your opponent overextending his units.

I also love potential to limit drop numbers if the size is 12. Assuming that priest can catch a ride and thats potential -4 drops for our lists with double battalion.

Isn't that only important if they do Stygies? Everyone uses the new CA deployment rules, right?

Still, a mechanized list with 100% of the list in vehicles or large units being infiltrated is going to be fun.

I suspect low 100s range. I mean, it's 4 heavy stubbers and a box.

a) ITs hideous. i dont like it.
b) better have some form of fly or is garbage.
c)Better have 12+ slots or no kataphrons inside and im sure they dont want them inside its op...
d) When its a transport it would be a normal one T7 6+ invu ad mech etc etc nothing special with stubbers.

e) When it tranforms i bet the missiles are d6 5 -1 1 ingore los. OR what the point having another T7 tank. The turret can be something good but Los we are looking for.

smoke and broad spectrum are classik.

overall i dont like it i pressume i have ot buy it but im not happy. Hope the profile proves me wrong.

The transport will be in the 90pts to 100pts range and the tank will likely be 170pts

Suzuteo wrote:Isn't that only important if they do Stygies? Everyone uses the new CA deployment rules, right?

Still, a mechanized list with 100% of the list in vehicles or large units being infiltrated is going to be fun.

I suspect low 100s range. I mean, it's 4 heavy stubbers and a box.

Well its use standard deployment in 3 out of 6 missions so its still in use, other tournaments also mix deployments so it still isn't neglectible.

Yoda79 wrote:a) ITs hideous. i dont like it.
b) better have some form of fly or is garbage.
c)Better have 12+ slots or no kataphrons inside and im sure they dont want them inside its op...
d) When its a transport it would be a normal one T7 6+ invu ad mech etc etc nothing special with stubbers.

e) When it tranforms i bet the missiles are d6 5 -1 1 ingore los. OR what the point having another T7 tank. The turret can be something good but Los we are looking for.

smoke and broad spectrum are classik.

overall i dont like it i pressume i have ot buy it but im not happy. Hope the profile proves me wrong.

What is the point of having another tank? Well rule of 3? And guard seems doing fine using all of its armored vehicles and tanks. It would be nice if it had no LoS shooting, but if it just have other profiles than Neutrons at reasonable price it will be good. And about fly, its not likely and that may be good, because 12 capacity transport with fly would be pricey, like 160pts. Id rather have cheap REQ, than another overpriced unit.

@Spera

If it doesn’t have fly why would I not just use drills?

Ignoring cost and personal taste of model aesthetic

 Ideasweasel wrote:
@Spera

If it doesn’t have fly why would I not just use drills?

Ignoring cost and personal taste of model aesthetic

Movment, drils do have abysmal movemet of 8/6/4", and you want them stuck in combat(eventually blow them up causing mortal wounds) and not move around to capture objectives and so on. Drills are actually good in CC, but that may be detrimental in pining tactic i you want to pin stretched unit from both sides, because you want to actually NOT kill models. Than you can fall back, and not miss to much on stubbed shooting, while drill misses opportunity for another charge.
And you can't really ignore cost. If this one is around 75-80 pts naked like rhino, while drill is 134 in base, you have three transports in price of two drills.

Drill is element of assault, cheeper transports are just means to deliver. Drills should be charging and wrecking havoc in your opponent lines, while this transport will probably better ridding around midfield either with its load, or after it unloaded its assault troops.

 Spera wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
@Spera

If it doesn’t have fly why would I not just use drills?

Ignoring cost and personal taste of model aesthetic

Movment, drils do have abysmal movemet of 8/6/4", and you want them stuck in combat(eventually blow them up causing mortal wounds) and not move around to capture objectives and so on. Drills are actually good in CC, but that may be detrimental in pining tactic i you want to pin stretched unit from both sides, because you want to actually NOT kill models. Than you can fall back, and not miss to much on stubbed shooting, while drill misses opportunity for another charge.
And you can't really ignore cost. If this one is around 75-80 pts naked like rhino, while drill is 134 in base, you have three transports in price of two drills.

Drill is element of assault, cheeper transports are just means to deliver. Drills should be charging and wrecking havoc in your opponent lines, while this transport will probably better ridding around midfield either with its load, or after it unloaded its assault troops.

It's difficult to compare the two vehicles when all the data we have for the Skorpius is speculation. Assuming it doesn't Fly, I'd say it's still two different purposes. The Drill being a good CC threat and deep-striking means you'll want to have it starting in reserves, and now that we can't DS before T2 the passengers don't start doing stuff until T2, T3 if they're Fulgurites and so have no shooting. So your opponent has 2-3 turns to react to the presence of the Drill and its passengers before they start being useful. In my opinion the Drill was a good choice for Fulgurites back when we could Infiltrate them and so charge T1, now that it's gone I feel like it's limited to embarking shooting units. There's the option of starting the Drill on the table but the 8" move isn't that appealing.

With a 12" move Skorpius and the lack of serious weaponry I FEEL like it's going to be less of a threat for the opponent to shoot at, though it depends. We have the advantage, unlike other armies, to have a lot of targets for anti-tank weaponry and so the targets are less obvious to our opponents. What it brings to the table is SPEED, we need fast units to have board control and if it can contain 1-2 units that'll disembark and contest objectives it's good. Kataphrons are slow because D3" Advance, Skitarii are flimsy, Infiltrators usually die after DS. With this transport we can really start thinking about a mechanised force, a mobile gunline. The elements are already there, we just lacked speed, otherwise our Onagers and Kataphrons can move and shoot.

Speaking of mechanised force, I can't believe I'm reading comments wondering why we need another tank, because Onagers are taken by 3 max and if we want a mobile gunline Dakkabots are out of the list, with 3 additional vehicles we'll have more options and won't need to stress out about screening a fixed Cawl Castle that shuts off as soon as a goon reach them in CC, I'm glad it broadens our list building choices and so reinforce the Pure AdMech doctrina.

Fair enough. Movement of 12 could be cool. If that’s what it is.

I own a drill, some events have this stupid “no forgeworld” rule that winds me up so a plastic transport at least gets round that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aaranis

I’m excited for the tank. If it’s T8 that would be really cool.

I wonder what weapon would be a good compliment to Neutron/Icarus.

Maybe something to affect hordes?

Ironstriders are tank destroyers, if you want more vehicles in your firebase. But you probably need 4 minimum to be worthwhile.

I wonder if the tank variant will be a true tank with T8 W12 3+/5++. Ironstriders are T6 W6 4+/6++ and Crawlers T7 W11 3+/5++.

I say the transport is 88-108 points minimum (80-100 base + 4x Heavy Stubber).

you cant count on balistarii. Their Role is for Games you either dont have..

a) Helverins and you should take with knight.
b) you gotta take stygies and for a bizzare reason you need 23 icarus and have nod estroyers to go for lasc balistarii.

And dont start spamming their nice but their role is not atm main pick.
I have extensively test them and they are nice vs neutron but you must not take them as prior pick.

Yep I'm more and more interested in Ironstriders lately, post CA18. Problem is the € cost and transportation of the models, my metal boxes for magnetic transport are already beyond capacity when I transport my whole 2000 pts with 3 Dragoons and 3 Onagers, let alone Cawl and the Fistellans. With my new job I'll be able to widen the ranks of my army little by little, but my next purchase is definitely the new transport. Then I'll figure a way to transport my army...

How are folks feeling about these transports if they are around 100 points T7 12W move 12” etc

Do we see them slotting nicely into a mars list or would sticking electro priests in really require that 9” scout move pregame?

I tend to flirt between mars and stygies depending on if I’m in the mood for bots or dragoons

@Yoda79
I am actually taking mine Mars. I am thinking Eldari aircraft is a new gatekeeper list, so I am overinvesting in ways to resist -2 to hit.

In ITC, AdMech is not allowed to take a Knight Lance, only a solo Knight.

Been obsessively watching battle reports to figure out the worst case threats. For us, I am thinking it's Eldar aircraft and Chaos.


Plasmaphrons are definitely our most efficient anti-vehicle shooting, but they have this unpleasantly high chance of killing themselves with every shot against -2 to hit, even in cases of A) +1 to hit and reroll 1s and B) reroll all.

Lascannon Ironstriders are more efficient than Icarus Crawlers against -2 to hit flying if you bring at least 4. The +2 to hit and rerolls makes a huge difference. Obviously, they have different secondary priorities. Crawlers do better against infantry. Ironstriders do better against vehicles, including T8 tanks. So you have to take a bit more anti-infantry. I went with the 5x Dakkabot and 6x Dragoons. But even then, a bit worried about my horde matchup, but you can't have things all ways; if I get the sense that horde is the thing, then I might just go with 3x Icarus Crawler over the 4x Ballistarii.

Again why would you not take Plasma when you can buff

a) Robots to help out.
b) + 1 more from vigilus
c)D6 plasma shots even if not overcharged the amount of damage + robots + buffs

Why would you invest in so many expenive units. lasc balistarii is a trap better off with a crawler. I understand what you say but Crawlers get the +1 automatic have 10 sots can be used vs infantry .
So if you go vs Fliers then you should go icarus move shoot etc. Balistarii are cheap options for games with less options.

You wont get much with lascannons. as you said if the meta goes for planes and gatling guns then dont spend points in balistarii .

just my advice you can test all you like i have and its not as you blieve it is.