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After waiting so long for it I doubt I'll buy it that soon. First I'll see the stats + eventual errata, and then I'll buy it from another source than my GW store, even if I want to support it. I've put up with the ridiculous AdMech prices for long enough.

 The Forgemaster wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/comments/c1oqh4/looks_like_the_transport_is_going_to_be_about_75/

the AdMech Kastellan Box is only £100, if purchasing individually:

3x £42.00 = £126 (for Robots & Smiths)
1x £22 (for Dominus)

total: £148

nearly 1/3 off!!

I don't know how about you, but even if I haven't had the 6 Bots already, I would probably have enough Dominus, as they're being added in every single admech box. And even if I had zero Bots I would have just enough Smiths to run - as none of them is the best choice currently ;P

GW pricing has nothing to do with the physical product it's all down to the role it plays in the army. If you need lots of them they're relatively affordable, if you only need a couple then they cost more.

Though ironstriders kinda bunk that theory for the most part, same for electro-priests. Though i wonder if they factor in megnetisation into their costings. If it's a dual kit and can be used as either without too much effort then that p[uts the cost up again.

It's all supply and demand basic economics, nothing to do with physical value.

pretty sure it has to do with how many options are in the kit.
The new ork buggies price are on point with Trukks, which they are pretty much the same amount of plastic. They also have 0 options other than which buggie you got.

ALL of the Admech stuff is dual-purpose kits except characters and to an extent Dunecrawlers since their role doesnt really change, just which gun they got. Be it two different dataslates (striders, priests) or two totally different tactics but in the same dataslate (robots)

Hell, look at Tau. Firewarriors almost doubled in price when Breachers became a thing because they added them to the existing kit.

I cant take balistarii.

There is a knight detachment that will give you cp and armigers. For me that cant be matched with autocannons.
100% would go for Armigers if that was the decision and ofc a knight for the cp. Flat 3 damage is a serious threat moving shooting 14" provide a mobile plan and i definetly need the cp the detachment etc etc.

I understand the +2 hit stratagems but the benefits cant be ignored , the helverins/knight are a v v good addition especially if you go for a mech army. You making the list complex for no reason. The detachment never build up with rest of army. And there is the issue Dragoons vs knight.

You take a group of dragoons to harash enemy vehicles knights etc you invest in Stygies bla bla and i understand the -2 to hit issue etc etc. But tbh unless we talking about list building for 1500 games the knight detachment of the new Apocalyph boc castellan and helverins is a better option since thats what you want. Even if you make it a Valliant helverin detachment or even a crusader helverin detachment or more. The extra Toughness the options to build around houses weapons melee cc easy access to fall back shoot etc etc etc .These are part of Ad mech we miss and we do miss extremely in competitive.

SO sure try Dragoons and balistarii iin friendly games or lower point games else if you playstyle goes that way dont think about it. Take a knight list its MECHANICUS all the way.

As always i have tried and even won a legaue with balistarii and dragoons but you need to realise they work vs specific enemy lists . In a league where we could decide 500 points of 1500 list vs enemies it was a good choise to take dragoons or balistaiiir etc etc but as a default they are not.
Dragoons are not knights and will not become equal vs all enemy lists. Same for balistarii you pay the option and you need it if you plan to go top competitive.

actually, armigers dont give you CP.
Per the Imperial Knights codex in the same paragraph saying you must nominate one in each detachment to be a character, it also says "command benefit is set to 0 unless it has 3 or more D and/or Q class knights"
So in a sense you are paying CP to use armigers, as you need to dump like 1500pts to get those 3cp from that detachment. Paying cp because obviously thats one less battalion if you opt to use them + a knight.
Also personally i despise that particular knight. He costs a freaking fortune and basically does nothing a way cheaper knight doesnt do except give reroll 1s to shooting to nearby armigers. Unless you have a ton of armigers, not worth it imo

I personally have had much more success playing mono-admech than playing it allied with knights.

Fulgurites + Onagers + Ryzaphrons have carried me through many games in the past. Since each of them are quite CP intensive, running a knight on top of all that feels bad.
I will say that the Mechanicum knights from forgeworld (Styrix, Magaera, Atropos) have impressed me since they need minimal CP investment. You pay for it in points however.
I also love being able to fill the board so i run a lot of infantry.

Priests in drills?

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I personally have had much more success playing mono-admech than playing it allied with knights.

Me too. (at least the past couple of months since CA 18 & Vigilus came out).

Knights are good, don't get me wrong, but people prepare for them or in more casual games do not wish to face them.

If i spend the points that I would have spent on a knight on more kataphrons (breachers/destroyers) or some other AdMech units e.g. building out to a Brigade, it is often worth it for those extra few CP, and then you can use them all to spend on the AdMech stratagems e.g. Plasma Specialists, +1 to hit from Vigilus, doctrinas, wrath of mars, etc.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
actually, armigers dont give you CP.
Per the Imperial Knights codex in the same paragraph saying you must nominate one in each detachment to be a character, it also says "command benefit is set to 0 unless it has 3 or more D and/or Q class knights"
So in a sense you are paying CP to use armigers, as you need to dump like 1500pts to get those 3cp from that detachment. Paying cp because obviously thats one less battalion if you opt to use them + a knight.
Also personally i despise that particular knight. He costs a freaking fortune and basically does nothing a way cheaper knight doesnt do except give reroll 1s to shooting to nearby armigers. Unless you have a ton of armigers, not worth it imo

The first Knight FAQ changed the Knight Lance CP conditions.


If you only take Armigers you get 0CP; if you take at least one big knight you get 3CP; if you take 3 or more big knights you get 6CP.

ahhh i missed that.
That makes way more sense. Not really sure why it was done that way in the first place, not like armigers are uber cheap CP farms

Man that's a rough pill to swallow on the new transport. Maybe this thing is massive and I'm just not noticing it, but from the pictures of the sprues it really doesn't look like it should be anything worse than a leman Russ runs. I hate myself for saying it but I'll probably get at least one, they do look cool and several people in my group want to see what I do with the paint job.

On the whole knights thing, my experience has been Castellan and Warglaives. Ran the Raven Castellan through it's peak time of insanity and while it was good, it really felt like it overshadowed the admech, like they were just trying to stay out of its way. If I threw in two Warglaives as support, that's half my list, and at that point it was difficult to make the admech side do much of note aside from hold objectives.

If I tried to run Warglaives only, I had great success, especially as Raven matched with Metallica, but the lack of cp really hurt. Since Metallica is all about all out aggression up the field (or as much aggression as 6+d6" can get you ) the Warglaives did great at tying into that. It let me take all my Onagers as Icarus without feeling like such a chump, gave me additional melee to tie in with my Dragoons, and was fast enough to keep up with the infantry moving up the table. With Raven their threat range is ridiculous and they're just too quick to ignore, you can have a target 30" away and pretty much guarantee hit it with melta bonus shots. Takes heat off of the vanguard with plasma heading up the board and attracts fire that should be sent at Icarus and Kastellans. The only problem is that abysmal d3 shots, I roll a 1 far more than I like and with the order of companions strat up to 3 CP it's no longer useful for anything aside from a Castellan. I find I'm usually advancing them turn one and full tilting one into the enemy line if there's a good target for it, nobody expects it to be there for a turn one charge. I know the hellverins are consistent with that flat 3 damage and the range but I do feel the Warglaives are a bit of a hidden gem. They really are a fun skirmisher/outflanking unit that can kind of do a bit of anything.

If I keep doing that I'll probably go with a gallant or errant as my 3rd so I can at least get CP, I just hate spending even more points on knights. The key for me I guess is finding a knight that combos well with Raven and two Warglaives for support while not costing 700 friggin points.

Going to wait for the rules. If it's just another box transport, then I'll stick to Drills.

Dragoons are really strong, but it's true that they have situational uses. In maps with bad terrain, they're a lot weaker. But they're definitely a must-kill unit that often cannot be ignored, suited for both offensive and defensive use.

In ITC, you are only allowed to use a solo Knight with AdMech. They also have different terrain rules concerning ruins, as well as special secondaries to punish players who bring Knights. Many armies have a way to kill a Knight in one turn. That or just play the board and out score them.

As I said if you are building lists involving balistarii dragoon etc.
Not all ad mech lists .

And in 2k games a crusader two helverins and a cheap ad mech batt get you half way 8 cp and lot to play with. So no I can't take balistarii or dragoons iinstead of knight.

As for warglaives the only reason I don't play them is they can t fall back shoot charge. So no neutron better .

Question.

Do the Kill Team Infiltrators come with the same options as the regular box infiltrators?

its the same exact sprue if thats what you mean.
Their rules are different slightly between 40k and killteam though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
its the same exact sprue if thats what you mean.
Their rules are different slightly between 40k and killteam though.

Ok so they have the same weapons and all that as you would get with the regular box.

Correct.
Least i didnt notice a difference between it and the standalone box

 Gangland wrote:
Question.

Do the Kill Team Infiltrators come with the same options as the regular box infiltrators?

You will never have to ask this question again:

Any boxed set that contains an item will always contain the full item, unless specifically able to be cut out via a sprue. In which case it will specify and you can see it via the sprue breakdowns.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
Question.

Do the Kill Team Infiltrators come with the same options as the regular box infiltrators?

You will never have to ask this question again:

Any boxed set that contains an item will always contain the full item, unless specifically able to be cut out via a sprue. In which case it will specify and you can see it via the sprue breakdowns.

Not quite true, some started boxes have minimized wargear options. Dark imperium for instance doesnt have all the options for plague marines

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
Question.

Do the Kill Team Infiltrators come with the same options as the regular box infiltrators?

You will never have to ask this question again:

Any boxed set that contains an item will always contain the full item, unless specifically able to be cut out via a sprue. In which case it will specify and you can see it via the sprue breakdowns.

Not quite true, some started boxes have minimized wargear options. Dark imperium for instance doesnt have all the options for plague marines

Dark Imperium doesn't contain the full kits--and it tells you exactly what comes in there.

Thanks Kanluwen, good to know.

 Kanluwen wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
Question.

Do the Kill Team Infiltrators come with the same options as the regular box infiltrators?

You will never have to ask this question again:

Any boxed set that contains an item will always contain the full item, unless specifically able to be cut out via a sprue. In which case it will specify and you can see it via the sprue breakdowns.

Not quite true, some started boxes have minimized wargear options. Dark imperium for instance doesnt have all the options for plague marines

Dark Imperium doesn't contain the full kits--and it tells you exactly what comes in there.

Thats what i mean, some kits have "alternate sprues", they do tell you but i was just adding onto your first statement.

 Gangland wrote:
Thanks Kanluwen, good to know.

Sorry if it came across as snippy or rude, it's a common question that is at times used to try to complain about things.

Generally, if there's an item where it is doubled sprues(the Primaris Intercessor, Reiver, and Hellblaster boxes for an example)? You might see a half set in these boxes rather than a full. Otherwise, you're getting the same item as what would otherwise be available at a discounted-ish price.

There is the example that Vladimir made in the form of the starter sets, but they give you an exact accounting for what is there.

 Yoda79 wrote:
As I said if you are building lists involving balistarii dragoon etc.
Not all ad mech lists .

And in 2k games a crusader two helverins and a cheap ad mech batt get you half way 8 cp and lot to play with. So no I can't take balistarii or dragoons iinstead of knight.

As for warglaives the only reason I don't play them is they can t fall back shoot charge. So no neutron better .

Right, but I mentioned this before and will say again: In ITC, we cannot use Helverins. Only a solo Knight. Once we use Helverins, we become a Knight army rather than an AdMech army. :(

What do you think of a Stygies-based Ironstrider list anyway? You think it has potential? I have 10 magnetized Ironstriders. I currently plan to use all 10 for the upcoming GT. I feel a bit dissatisfied with my current tourney list. Especially since this shop I am going to (Game Kastle) has a lot of Knight players, and if I run into 3x Krast Crusader, it's just free points for my opponent to bring a Knight myself. So 6x Dragoons and 4x Las-striders sounds right. But do I want to bring Cawl, or should I rely on minus to hit to give me more protection?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So as mentioned prior, I have a tourney at the end of July. Might as well start planning now.

I have been running the Martian gunline with a Knight:

I think I will be swapping the Crusader out for a Dragoon Bomb and additional Breachers.

But then there is the AdMech Soup concept:

I have the Infiltrators and Assassins now. All I would need are 15x Corpuscarii and another Enginseer. I am also not sure if I should go with another Battalion for the CP or 3x Destroyers and 4x Servitors.

Real quick, here's the list compacted down to two Battalions and a Vanguard, no Assassin:

Made another edit; I realized that it's pretty much impossible to move 9x Destroyers around, and I need a screen, so I put some Breachers in.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 Yoda79 wrote:
As I said if you are building lists involving balistarii dragoon etc.
Not all ad mech lists .

And in 2k games a crusader two helverins and a cheap ad mech batt get you half way 8 cp and lot to play with. So no I can't take balistarii or dragoons iinstead of knight.

As for warglaives the only reason I don't play them is they can t fall back shoot charge. So no neutron better .

Right, but I mentioned this before and will say again: In ITC, we cannot use Helverins. Only a solo Knight. Once we use Helverins, we become a Knight army rather than an AdMech army. :(

What do you think of a Stygies-based Ironstrider list anyway? You think it has potential? I have 10 magnetized Ironstriders. I currently plan to use all 10 for the upcoming GT. I feel a bit dissatisfied with my current tourney list. Especially since this shop I am going to (Game Kastle) has a lot of Knight players, and if I run into 3x Krast Crusader, it's just free points for my opponent to bring a Knight myself. So 6x Dragoons and 4x Las-striders sounds right. But do I want to bring Cawl, or should I rely on minus to hit to give me more protection?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So as mentioned prior, I have a tourney at the end of July. Might as well start planning now.

I have been running the Martian gunline with a Knight:

Spoiler:

Mars Battalion Detachment - 1355
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 320
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
5x Skitarii Vanguard - 5x Radium Carbine
5x Skitarii Vanguard - 5x Radium Carbine

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Fast Attack - 320
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Graia Battalion Detachment - 165

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 478

Lord of War - 478
1x Knight Crusader - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, Heavy Flamer, 2x Heavy Stubber

Total: 1998 points
12 CP

I think I will be swapping the Crusader out for a Dragoon Bomb and additional Breachers.

But then there is the AdMech Soup concept:

Spoiler:

Mixed Battalion Detachment - 1171
Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

HQ - 175
1x Ryza Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber, Warlord: Monitor Malevolus
1x Ryza Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land

Troop - 358
6x Ryza Kataphron Destroyer - 6x Plasma Culverin, 6x Phosphor Blaster
5x Graia Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Graia Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Elite - 308
7x Mars Sicarian Infiltrator - 7x Flechette Blaster, 7x Taser Goad
13x Lucius Corpuscarii Electro-Priest

Heavy Support - 330
3x Ryza Kastelan Robot - 9x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 573

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 165

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1994 points
15 CP

I have the Infiltrators and Assassins now. All I would need are 15x Corpuscarii and another Enginseer. I am also not sure if I should go with another Battalion for the CP or 3x Destroyers and 4x Servitors.

Real quick, here's the list compacted down to two Battalions and a Vanguard, no Assassin:

Spoiler:

Ryza Battalion Detachment - 1033
Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

HQ - 175
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber, Warlord: Monitor Malevolus
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land

Troop - 528
6x Kataphron Destroyer - 6x Plasma Culverin, 6x Phosphor Blaster
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw

Heavy Support - 330
3x Kastelan Robot - 9x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Mixed Vanguard Detachment - 386

HQ - 30
1x Graia Tech-Priest Enginseer

Elite - 356
4x Graia Servitor
7x Mars Sicarian Infiltrator - 7x Flechette Blaster, 7x Taser Goad
15x Lucius Corpuscarii Electro-Priest

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 573

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Total: 1992 points
13 CP

Made another edit; I realized that it's pretty much impossible to move 9x Destroyers around, and I need a screen, so I put some Breachers in.

What about your second Soup List (three battalions) but remove the priests and put in some breachers or Ironstriders for a bit more firepower?

Haha. I dunno. It's an amusing experimental setup that I have seen floating around in some tourneys, but I am not sure if it's better than Mars gunline, with their consistent Shroudpsalm and shooting.

This is actually what I am currently thinking to bring:

Dropped the Knight and Graia. Picked up 3 Destroyers for the option to Elimination Volley (they shoot pretty well even without the +1 to hit thanks to Cawl) and Stygies Dragoon Bomb. Rangers are just going to be Engineers and hide behind walls.

Questions up for debate:
1) Breachers as Mars or Stygies? As Mars, their guns actually do a decent job against T5-6 vehicles. But as Stygies, they become much harder to remove. Fighting power is nothing to write home about.
2) Graia or Stygies for the second detachment? Graia has a much more impactful stratagem, and I can pay -1 CP to take an Auxiliary detachment. Relates to #1, since if I run Breachers as Stygies, this question is moot.

Here's what it would look like with Stygies Breachers:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Haha. I dunno. It's an amusing experimental setup that I have seen floating around in some tourneys, but I am not sure if it's better than Mars gunline, with their consistent Shroudpsalm and shooting.

This is actually what I am currently thinking to bring:

Spoiler:

Mars Battalion Detachment - 1419
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 384
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Destroyer - 3x Plasma Culverin, 3x Phosphor Blaster

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Fast Attack - 320
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 573

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Total: 1992 points
12 CP

Dropped the Knight and Graia. Picked up 3 Destroyers for the option to Elimination Volley (they shoot pretty well even without the +1 to hit thanks to Cawl) and Stygies Dragoon Bomb. Rangers are just going to be Engineers and hide behind walls.

Questions up for debate:
1) Breachers as Mars or Stygies? As Mars, their guns actually do a decent job against T5-6 vehicles. But as Stygies, they become much harder to remove. Fighting power is nothing to write home about.
2) Graia or Stygies for the second detachment? Graia has a much more impactful stratagem, and I can pay -1 CP to take an Auxiliary detachment. Relates to #1, since if I run Breachers as Stygies, this question is moot.

Personally I think stygies might be more useful deployment with dragoons and -1 to hit etc.
Possibly consider dropping 1x dragoon and 1xbreacher (or changing deastroyers to 3 more breachers) for a culexus or greyfax as deny capability if running stygies?
If running stygies breachers as stygies makes sense as the more firepower needed to remove them the better they do their job.
Radical idea: how much do you want mars canticles? If not too fussed you could mix that detachment instead with graia on the breachers (or on rangers if swapped over). Is the main reason why running mars to bring crawl for the bots?

Good suggestions. If I want an Assassin, I would probably cut the Destroyers and just forego Elimination Volley. Because otherwise, I am not sure if I have the CP to spare. Unless I just want to run Callidus just to blunt alpha strikes. Thoughts?

Yeah, I think Stygies Breachers then. They're primarily a roadblock against assault.

In my experience, Shroudpsalm is really important when trading fire. Having two chances to make my Robots 2+ and Las-striders 3+ is a big deal, since otherwise, they are less durable than their counterparts in other armies. My Breachers can be in Stygies since they get the worst of it on turn one, when I picked Shroudpsalm.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
Thanks Kanluwen, good to know.

Sorry if it came across as snippy or rude, it's a common question that is at times used to try to complain about things.

Generally, if there's an item where it is doubled sprues(the Primaris Intercessor, Reiver, and Hellblaster boxes for an example)? You might see a half set in these boxes rather than a full. Otherwise, you're getting the same item as what would otherwise be available at a discounted-ish price.

There is the example that Vladimir made in the form of the starter sets, but they give you an exact accounting for what is there.

Naw you’re good. I wasn’t trying to sound like I’m complaining just wanted to know since I have a chance to get the Kill Team versions of infiltrators for much cheaper.