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Spend the CP?
There a stratagem i missed to get access to the relic w/o having a warlord from that army for knights?

There's the relic-purchasing stratagem for Knights basically every army has, you just need a valid Knight detachment to access the strats. A super heavy auxiliary detachment should be enough even.

Really? Never noticed that one....
Where is that? im not seeing it in the knight dex.

Exalted Court for a Warlord Trait, and Heirlooms of the Household for a Relic. Both cost 1 CP, or 3 CP for 2. Both also make the knight a character.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's no book, so I highly doubt we'll see a leak.

You can just go download the datasheet for Apocalypse right now.

We’ve pretty much established the apoc datasheet isnt enough to make a decision on whether the transport is viable in 40k. Apoc is devoid of almost all rules that make admech interesting, its as stripped back a concept as it gets. I need points and i need keywords and datasheet abilities/rules for each before i can decide. The tank i believe will be fine but at the moment i mainly need a transport.

I dont have a drill because i held off on splurging such a large amount of money on a model not really designed for our army, so given i want a transport it’s either the dunerider as an affordable and hopefully more useful than just a cheap, flimsy, slow box. Or go the whole hog and get a drill but put up with the weird synergy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The store page for the disintigrator has some nice component close ups and shots of the sprues incidentally: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Skorpius-Disintegrator-2019

BoLS posted an Unboxing video:


Dunerider 65
Disintegrator 85

Belleros Energy Cannon 20
Ferrumite Cannon 25
Disruptor missile launcher 0

Transport clocks in at 73; no surprise rules.
Tank comes in at 111 or 116.

Well feth, prices are actually reasonable, at release. thats new. Gues we can buy few now.

so nice and cheap - but no invulnerable save????

 The Forgemaster wrote:
so nice and cheap - but no invulnerable save????

No invuln is probably gonna mean I'll be running the Belleros. The transports just need to get close, so I'm ok with relying on Stygies and Shroudpsalm.

Will be getting at least 1 mortar tank. probably 1 transport as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you think about it the Bellaros is about the cost of 1x Kastellan - I suspect that people will take one less Kastellan in exchange for some more anti-tank and some ignore LoS mortar fire...

The Dunerider WILL have to rely on Shroudpsalm, ideally the Stygies -1 as well to get where it needs to be. Shame the whole hover-shtick doesn't give it some terrain movement rule (especially water). But it's 1 point cheaper than a Rhino with 2 storm bolters and trades one point of toughness, smoke launchers (which could have been useful, especially for Stygies), and the rather pointless self repair rule for two wounds/HP, 33% more firepower, MUCH longer effective weapon range (12 shots at 36" rather than 8 shots at 12"/4 at 24") as well as a Data-Teether.

The Dunerider actually has the only Broad Spectrum Data teether that can actually properly do its job as infantry leadership buffer rather than simply being there to enable Protector Doctrina, and it will help the passengers no matter if you run two units of 5 or one unit of 10, especially considering how quickly a unit of 5 is going to lose it's Alpha and have a high risk of losing one or both special weapon troopers to a morale test, while a single big units benefits from the synergy that Enhanced and Broad Spectrum data-teethers have (LD8, re-rollable).

In any case it is a much better vehicle and transport than a Rhino is, especially considering shroudpsalm which it's going to get at least for the first two turns whether or not you play Mars.

Both the Dunerider and Disintegrator have good price points as far as point-cost goes, though the Disintegrator is probably better off having line of sight to at least one unit of infantry so it can use its missiles and three stubbers as well and earn its points back much faster. Ferrum cannon doesn't seem to be worth it, especially because it doesn't really fill a niche like the mortar does. On the other hand, 3D3x S6 AP-1 D2 isn't particularly good at killing infantry that isn't mortar squads, without the ability to ignore the cover bonus target units are likely to get.



EDIT: Also it's official, the Dunerider cannot transport Kataphrons or Cawl, but every other Mechanicus/Secutarii infantry unit, with no extra transport capacity cost for Sicarians. Considering the price cut Ruststalkers got, a unit of five in addition to a unit of Vanguard does seem worth a try. Or 2-3 Datasmiths + infantry for the close range lulz (I mean a Datasmith is only 41 points for 4 wounds T4 2+/5++... that's a 1+ save with shroudpsalm, a fist and one hell of a handgun ;D) . Electropriests, Hoplites and especially Ruststalkers (you can squeeze a unit of 10 with blades into a Dunerider for 216 points total... and the passengers alone have TWENTY wounds/HP) are the big winners though.

On the plus side you can transport a Dominus/Manipulus for the same No. of models as a skitarii... i.e. 1.

I'm genuinely excited they put Secutarii in the rules for 40k not just Apoc.

man those rules are a letdown...

No invul on the tank and costs about the same as the outright brutal dunecrawler. Other than the mortar shots, it has no reason to exist, but with the amount of other guns it has its kinda wasted hiding it so you cant shoot it. Its not even more durable to offset the lack of invul let alone the rerollable invul (+1 wound does not count as more durable, 12 needs no more shots than 11 to kill with 2-3D guns)

Transport is even MORE light on rules than expected. Given it has 2 of the spectrum antennas i was at least expecting a better rule for that, but its still the same 3" bubble +1 LD. Why isnt it a wider bubble given they decided to put emphasis on "it has TWO of them!" is beyond me.

Though i will atleast say we have a valid target for our "it blows up automatically" stratagem. Transport will actually be close enough to the enemy to want to do that sometimes and does more than 1 mortal wound.

The cannon seems like a nice consistant anti-tank weapon. Against T7 targets, it's still a 3 shot, 3 damage lascannon, which is nothing to sneeze at. It also has the extra missile punch and pretty decent anti-infantry with 9 stubber shots, all for 116 points. The nutronager is great, but it can suffer a lot from RNG. The skorpius really does look like a decent alternative, trading damage potential for more reliability and some additional small-arms fire.
Some of my other armies would kill for a platform like this.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
man those rules are a letdown...

No invul on the tank and costs about the same as the outright brutal dunecrawler. Other than the mortar shots, it has no reason to exist, but with the amount of other guns it has its kinda wasted hiding it so you cant shoot it. Its not even more durable to offset the lack of invul let alone the rerollable invul (+1 wound does not count as more durable, 12 needs no more shots than 11 to kill with 2-3D guns)

Transport is even MORE light on rules than expected. Given it has 2 of the spectrum antennas i was at least expecting a better rule for that, but its still the same 3" bubble +1 LD. Why isnt it a wider bubble given they decided to put emphasis on "it has TWO of them!" is beyond me.

Though i will atleast say we have a valid target for our "it blows up automatically" stratagem. Transport will actually be close enough to the enemy to want to do that sometimes and does more than 1 mortal wound.

I mean, when shroudpsalm is up, unless the Skorpius is being targeted by AP -4 shooting, it will have the exact same save as the onager. I don't think the lack of invuln will matter all that much. Plus, when you factor in the missiles, the damage output against T7/T8 is superior to the Neutron laser for the same cost.

So are we expecting an FAQ for the range on the mortar do we think? Unboxing confirms its still 36” yet the apocalypse one says 48”. I’m not quite ready to accept they have different ranges in each system, its just weird.

Quick technical question. What size base do Engiseers use? I'm using a couple third-party models and want to make sure I'm using the right base. I've got them on the standard 28mm? bases currently.

bmsattler wrote:
Quick technical question. What size base do Engiseers use? I'm using a couple third-party models and want to make sure I'm using the right base. I've got them on the standard 28mm? bases currently.

32mm

These were posted on FB

Sweet Jesus...this thing is an auto-include at that price point.

I've got 3 variants of my current primary list. One that drops the bots and keeps breachers. One that has both. And one that drops the breachers and keeps the bots.

All the variants include 3 of these new tanks, 3 icarus crawlers, 2 new transports and 60+ infantry.

So excited. Glad I already got 3 on pre-order.

 The Forgemaster wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
Quick technical question. What size base do Engiseers use? I'm using a couple third-party models and want to make sure I'm using the right base. I've got them on the standard 28mm? bases currently.

32mm

The webstore-exclusive old metal Enginseer and the Forge-World Titan Tech Priest are on 25mm, I think. So I guess you could play Enginseers on either 25mm or 32mm (but probably better to play them on 32 for their repair range?).

Pomguo wrote:

 The Forgemaster wrote:

bmsattler wrote:
Quick technical question. What size base do Engiseers use? I'm using a couple third-party models and want to make sure I'm using the right base. I've got them on the standard 28mm? bases currently.

32mm

The webstore-exclusive old metal Enginseer and the Forge-World Titan Tech Priest are on 25mm, I think. So I guess you could play Enginseers on either 25mm or 32mm (but probably better to play them on 32 for their repair range?).

Ah yeah, sorry - I meant for the new plastic enginseer.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Sweet Jesus...this thing is an auto-include at that price point.

I've got 3 variants of my current primary list. One that drops the bots and keeps breachers. One that has both. And one that drops the breachers and keeps the bots.

All the variants include 3 of these new tanks, 3 icarus crawlers, 2 new transports and 60+ infantry.

So excited. Glad I already got 3 on pre-order.

Yep, the Disintegrator is clearly overpowered at 111/116 points a piece.
Expect a price increase in CA 2019, they won't leave them as they are with -1 to Hit and possibly 2 turns of 2+ armour save (Prepared positions and always in cover from Canticles of Omnissiah)

If this kit was $50 I'd be all over it. $75 is just a bit steep for what it is. I mean heck I'm paying more than a dollar a point for the transport which always leaves a sour taste. Means I'm getting maybe 1 or 2, not 4 or 5.

They're really not anything fancy but the points costs work for me. The dunerider while a bit boring is what we said we wanted, a simple box to carry stuff that was cheap. The stubbers are efficient, the data tether is actually useful for infantry for once, and it looks like it might be good for blocking LoS to things like Kataphrons in a pinch. Fly or open topped would be awesome but it seems useable. I'm kind of curious to see what an admech mechanized list would look like. The amount of 2+ T7 models between the transports, the tanks, Onagers, and Kastellans would be cool to see, maybe sprinkle in some Dragoons or ballistaari to taste.

The tank is a good sweet spot pts wise. It's a real shame it can't fall back and shoot but the guns are solid and it's got the essential bits. No squadron sucks though, same problem the Onager has. I really want 2 of both guns but I'm not able to run that so it's going to be something awkward like 2 Icarus, 1 neutron, 1 AT skimmer, and 2 mortar skimmers for my skitarii army.

Just surprisingly simple, compared to everything else admech has having a ton of whacky weapons and rules. I half expected this thing to have some cooky aura ability or machine spirit rule.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Sweet Jesus...this thing is an auto-include at that price point.

I've got 3 variants of my current primary list. One that drops the bots and keeps breachers. One that has both. And one that drops the breachers and keeps the bots.

All the variants include 3 of these new tanks, 3 icarus crawlers, 2 new transports and 60+ infantry.

So excited. Glad I already got 3 on pre-order.

Yep, the Disintegrator is clearly overpowered at 111/116 points a piece.
Expect a price increase in CA 2019, they won't leave them as they are with -1 to Hit and possibly 2 turns of 2+ armour save (Prepared positions and always in cover from Canticles of Omnissiah)

You never need to use Prepared positions as Admech (at least pure admech, guess things are different if you run soup and half your list is something else) because you can simply pick Shroudpsalm on turn 1 and pay 2CP to pick it again on turn 2. Which is strictely better, because Shroudpsalm works outside your deployment zone (which can be pretty limiting if you end up with less than a quarter of the table).

Theoretically you could use prepared positions, pick shroudpsalm turn 2 and pay another 2 CP to pick it again 3, but then you end up paying 4 CP and still end up severely limiting your movement options on the first turn. And usually the outcome of a game will have been decided after the first two turns (especially with a shooty army like Admech, if you didn't cripple your opponent's firepower by then, chances are you are simply not going to win).

The Disintegrator isn't going to be overpowered, especially if you take a look at what an Onager gets for 119 points (or even less with an Icarus array) or what the currently OP units are in the game (including 4 PPM guardsmen which still haven't gotten their deserved nerf after 2 years). It's a good vehicle for the point cost, but not something you will always include in a list (or more than one) unlike our beloved Crabs .

Bull, its 1pt cheaper, has minimum as many shots as a icarus crawler but upwards of double most walkers, has an extra wound, 4" more movement, and answers the eldar problem. Not counting how much it helps in itc if you play that format. Most pure admech lists should start 3xdisentigrators with mortars for 333pts and 3 icarus crawlers for 336pts.

In mono admech if i have the CP i would always prepared position that way i can shroudspalm on t2 and t3


I am seriously considering 3 disintegrators and 3 dunestriders for my london GT list now they both look solid

Ordered 3.

Planning on a 2:1 ratio, not sure which way just yet.

ORDERING THREE NOW. 111 POINTS IS INSANELY CHEAP! I mean, I was guessing 120-130 and thought I was being optimistic.

Lack of invulnerable save is a bit of a problem, sure. But it just means you take it Stygies or hide it better as Mars.