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MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote: So here's a question - me and my friends are enjoying the ITC rules, but what's the consensus on squad size when playing the missions? You probably don't want to max out without a Data Tether, but also you don't want to give easy points by snuffing out 5 man squads...
You'll probably hear to take min squad no upgrades, and spend all points on robots and robots and robots.
I personally think that sounds boring and love the vanguard models and their weapons are great, so I'm using squads of 8 including 2 plasmas. This way they can't be completely ignored. It looks like a nice midground. Still cheap, but not useless forcing the opponent to make choices.
They do have the problem of mobility still though.
You hear people say take min squads and a fat robot squad because that is what works best in a competitive setting. If you are just messing about with your buds at the LGS, sure - run whatever. If you are trying to actually win with a competitive Admech list, expect a very one-dimensional list because we have a very limited faction.
Counterpoint: admech has a lot going for it in ITC missions in ways that are not obvious.
5x Robots give up no secondary points 4-5x Dragoons/ballistari give up no secondary points Your infantry never give out reaper (who runs 10 man squads?) Admech HQs are hardy and not particularly numerous ESBatteries that me and Phear run give up no BGH points Admech units are generally point intensive large units ... which are great for reducing the 'kill more' primary objective
If I didn't run Celestine my standard list would be highly ITC secondary resistant. If you are serious about being competitive in ITC, then you will need to be running a 5x robot star and a 4-5x dragoon star. Both of those things are very effective in ITC.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/02 04:33:03
Also stygies dragoons and dunecrawlers are pretty strong and vanguard are OK. I think you can quite comfortable take a battalion as a supplement to another faction and be very competitive without the robots
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/02 07:53:11
Wulfey wrote: Counterpoint: admech has a lot going for it in ITC missions in ways that are not obvious.
5x Robots give up no secondary points
4-5x Dragoons/ballistari give up no secondary points
Your infantry never give out reaper (who runs 10 man squads?)
Admech HQs are hardy and not particularly numerous
ESBatteries that me and Phear run give up no BGH points
Admech units are generally point intensive large units ... which are great for reducing the 'kill more' primary objective
If I didn't run Celestine my standard list would be highly ITC secondary resistant. If you are serious about being competitive in ITC, then you will need to be running a 5x robot star and a 4-5x dragoon star. Both of those things are very effective in ITC.
Yea, but in an area that doesn't do that silly ITC stuff like mine, AdMech will continue to fall by the wayside. C'est la vie.
Aaranis wrote: Hey guys, thought you might enjoy my latest painted models, as well as a current WIP of my Ogryns Destroyers, that will count-as Kataphron Destroyers in my future games. I'll finally get to try them for the first time this Friday against Tyranids (friendly game). C&C welcome of course.
Fulgurite Electro-Priests
Spoiler:
Sicarian Ruststalkers
Spoiler:
Onager Dunecrawler 1, Neutron Laser
Spoiler:
WIP, conversion of Ogryns to count as Kataphron Destroyers
Spoiler:
Nice. I do a sky blue and orange scheme myself. Silver/gold for the metal bits though; I'm not as bold as you are.
I'll post some pics of my Crawlers after I finish the PHEAR Earthshaker Crawler conversions. (They don't so pretty right now. I've just about decapitated them.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/02 15:24:53
Aaranis wrote: Hey guys, thought you might enjoy my latest painted models, as well as a current WIP of my Ogryns Destroyers, that will count-as Kataphron Destroyers in my future games. I'll finally get to try them for the first time this Friday against Tyranids (friendly game). C&C welcome of course.
Fulgurite Electro-Priests
Spoiler:
Sicarian Ruststalkers
Spoiler:
Onager Dunecrawler 1, Neutron Laser
Spoiler:
WIP, conversion of Ogryns to count as Kataphron Destroyers
Spoiler:
Nice. I do a sky blue and orange scheme myself. Silver/gold for the metal bits though; I'm not as bold as you are.
I'll post some pics of my Crawlers after I finish the PHEAR Earthshaker Crawler conversions. (They don't so pretty right now. I've just about decapitated them.)
Thanks ! Brass Scorpion is probably my favourite metal colour, really gives a classy steampunk vibe I feel.
I personally prefer a brighter brass, like Runelord Brass (I personally use VMC Brass). It takes on a tarnished look better after shading. Brass Scorpion comes out looking too much like copper.
Wulfey wrote: Counterpoint: admech has a lot going for it in ITC missions in ways that are not obvious.
5x Robots give up no secondary points
4-5x Dragoons/ballistari give up no secondary points
Your infantry never give out reaper (who runs 10 man squads?)
Admech HQs are hardy and not particularly numerous
ESBatteries that me and Phear run give up no BGH points
Admech units are generally point intensive large units ... which are great for reducing the 'kill more' primary objective
If I didn't run Celestine my standard list would be highly ITC secondary resistant. If you are serious about being competitive in ITC, then you will need to be running a 5x robot star and a 4-5x dragoon star. Both of those things are very effective in ITC.
When you say "5 Robot Star" - do you include Crawl in that bundle?
Wulfey wrote: Counterpoint: admech has a lot going for it in ITC missions in ways that are not obvious.
5x Robots give up no secondary points
4-5x Dragoons/ballistari give up no secondary points
Your infantry never give out reaper (who runs 10 man squads?)
Admech HQs are hardy and not particularly numerous
ESBatteries that me and Phear run give up no BGH points
Admech units are generally point intensive large units ... which are great for reducing the 'kill more' primary objective
If I didn't run Celestine my standard list would be highly ITC secondary resistant. If you are serious about being competitive in ITC, then you will need to be running a 5x robot star and a 4-5x dragoon star. Both of those things are very effective in ITC.
When you say "5 Robot Star" - do you include Crawl in that bundle?
That is presumed. 5x robot stacks are only ever plausibly brought in Cawl/MARS detachments. Cawl is a nasty point giver for KINGSLAYER in ITC. But if Cawl dies, you are pretty much tabled anyways.
gendoikari87 wrote: I prefer Bright Gold, make a candy red coat really pop. Does not photograph well though.
Spoiler:
They see me rollin, they hatin...
So shiny. It looks more like Star Wars than Warhammer 40k.
Bling bling Marsiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide. They're way shinier in person too. something about cameras doesn't capture them correctly, makes the paint look flat. in person it's a real metallic red look.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/03 03:32:14
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote: So here's a question - me and my friends are enjoying the ITC rules, but what's the consensus on squad size when playing the missions? You probably don't want to max out without a Data Tether, but also you don't want to give easy points by snuffing out 5 man squads...
You'll probably hear to take min squad no upgrades, and spend all points on robots and robots and robots.
I personally think that sounds boring and love the vanguard models and their weapons are great, so I'm using squads of 8 including 2 plasmas. This way they can't be completely ignored. It looks like a nice midground. Still cheap, but not useless forcing the opponent to make choices.
They do have the problem of mobility still though.
You hear people say take min squads and a fat robot squad because that is what works best in a competitive setting. If you are just messing about with your buds at the LGS, sure - run whatever. If you are trying to actually win with a competitive Admech list, expect a very one-dimensional list because we have a very limited faction.
Every army's list in large tournaments is one dimensional. Usually it's 100 people all with the same 6 net lists that they just bought prepainted on eBay.
Local tournaments are more open. Vanguard are good, they won't win cheese competitions, but they're still good and fairly costed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/03 05:38:22
So I have found that my previous list has huge flaws:
1) Orders only affect Infantry. Batteries are Artillery, but not Vehicles. (Ugh...)
2) Company Commanders are very fragile, and it's easy to lose him once the closest Earthshaker dies.
3) It was pointed out to me that Enginseers and Skitarii Rangers are super expensive for CP.
Heavy Support - 810 5x Kastelan Robots - Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Heavy Phosphor Blasters
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
Stygies VIII Outrider Detachment - 460
HQ - 52 1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Fast Attack - 408 6x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
Total: 1996 points 8 Command Points
Basically, a Guard Battalion supported by two large wings of AdMech: a Mars Dakkastar with two Neutron Crawlers and a Stygies Goondozer. My custom regiment is currently called Storm Pilgrims, and it uses the MT doctrine. (I am essentially using my old Skitarii Vanguard as Guard. Radium Carbines are Lasguns, Arc Rifles are Plasma Guns. I need to kitbash some Sergeants though.) The game plan is to hide the Guard in cover around objectives, then just move in range to Rapid Fire Lasguns, Plasma Guns, and Boltguns with MT doctrine within 12", which procs on 6. That or use them as sacrificial fodder. The Commanders now can hide amongst the Infantry, and I split the Warlord and the Relic, so there is now added redundancy as well.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/11/03 08:19:18
Was really surprised (positively) by one of my Tech-Priests Dominus yesterday, in a friendly game against Salamanders. I had him equipped with the Eradication Ray, Macrostubber and gave him the Pseudogenetor to try it out. Well he killed at least 5 Scouts and 8 Marines by himself both in CC and with the Macrostubber in CC. Really pleased to see the Pseudogenetor being so nice. He also destroyed a damaged Ironclad Dreadnought in Overwatch and lost only two Wounds in all the game, which he auto-healed. The Eradication Ray really is a nice weapon, if you want to make it even better you can use the Ryza trait to take it to S7 and add +1 Damage to have an anti-tank Dominus ! But as far as Warlord traits goes, I'd never use anything else than Monitor Malevolus, this thing allowed me to keep 4 CPs in the game. We really rely on CPs with AdMech, especially if you use Elimination Volley. One Dragoon killed three Bikes in one charge too. My Snipers made the game for me, as they slayed the Warlord from across the map, allowing me to have a Draw.
I'll be playing the same list today against Tyranids. Here's the list btw:
- 2 Kastelan Robots, full Heavy Phosphor Blasters
- 1 Onager Dunecrawler, Neutron Laser & 2x Cognis Stubbers
My Vanguards got quickly obliterated because damn, flamer Bikes can go really fast. Ruststalkers didn't do anything valuable because I screwed up the Infiltration stratagem, we rolled the 1st player before I placed them so of course I could just place them wherever I wanted, I quickly realised I failed and placed them somewhere I would have placed them otherwise, but not really hidden to be fair. So they got shot to death.
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote: So here's a question - me and my friends are enjoying the ITC rules, but what's the consensus on squad size when playing the missions? You probably don't want to max out without a Data Tether, but also you don't want to give easy points by snuffing out 5 man squads...
You'll probably hear to take min squad no upgrades, and spend all points on robots and robots and robots.
I personally think that sounds boring and love the vanguard models and their weapons are great, so I'm using squads of 8 including 2 plasmas. This way they can't be completely ignored. It looks like a nice midground. Still cheap, but not useless forcing the opponent to make choices.
They do have the problem of mobility still though.
You hear people say take min squads and a fat robot squad because that is what works best in a competitive setting. If you are just messing about with your buds at the LGS, sure - run whatever. If you are trying to actually win with a competitive Admech list, expect a very one-dimensional list because we have a very limited faction.
Every army's list in large tournaments is one dimensional. Usually it's 100 people all with the same 6 net lists that they just bought prepainted on eBay.
Local tournaments are more open. Vanguard are good, they won't win cheese competitions, but they're still good and fairly costed.
Eh. My shops has a lot of tourney players constantly in prep for one event or another, so we usually see a lot of cheese.
Vanguard are also just not good. I have never had a single game where they performed anything beyond holding an objective out of LoS. The second someone looks at them, they evaporate. They really should have more innate morale benefits so big squads aren't a liability. Especially since you are rewarded with the extra special for max size.
AdMech reminds me of Skorne in Hordes - in that we seem to have a lot of Skornergy in our 'Dex.
Wulfey wrote: Heyyy, so I have a tournament report from SoCal open. It has gossip. Hopefully I won't get banned and this doesn't go viral beyond this thread. I ran the Celestine + Cawl + Robots + Earthshakers list. This is my effort to write up some notes. I placed 23 at 4-2 and got best admech.
For reference, here is my list again:
Spoiler:
Cawl
1x5 Kastelon
2x1 NeutrOnager
1x4 Dragoon
Celestine + Geminae
2x Astropath
1x Commisar
Company Commander CADIA 5+/5+
Master of Ordinance
29 Conscripts
3x1 Earthshaker
Opponent 1:
Justin - Inquisition / Scions / AM but no Codex goodness.
Justin went first and held his deepstrikers back. He walked towards my robots. My artillery generally killed 1 taurox a turn and my wrath of mars removed his bullgryns. Celestine and the dragoons mopped up his mobile stuff and after he dropped, each robot removed a scion team. His list ... like it just didn't work. I can't see his list doing anything at an ITC competitive event. He didn't take the 5+/5+ WLTrait/Relic and was pretty grumpy that I did. Like ... why didn't he run it? It is obviously OP. Run that shiz. This is ITC. Play fluff at the GW store where no one counts up points.
Opponent 2:
Eric - 2x Renegade knights, magnus, lord of skulls.
Eric went first, got off the 3++ power on magnus, and pushed up. His shooting wasn't that great, I think he glassed an Onager. My shooting was poor and magnus lived. His return shooting was good, he aced celestine and my dragoons. He failed to get into combat second turn thanks to celestine ressurecting in a good spot. My surviving artillery and robots tabled him on turn 3. It was a rougher game than it should have been but Cawl eventually killed a knight.
Opponent 3:
Don - 6x plague crawlers, 2x bloat drones, Mortarian, some characters.
He dropped Mortarian first right in the middle of the board. I put the robots down 36" away and I knew he didn't have warp time or a way through my screen turn 1. I luckily got first turn and aced Mortarian and a Crawler. The rest of the game was him inneficetly shelling me and killing celestine and a few dragoons while I killed a crawler a turn. Eventually celestine's second life ran up the board and aced his last character. This was by far the best showing of my list. All the elements came together to demolish what should be a devastating army. He ended up 19th, ahead of me.
Opponent 4:
Laurence - Ynnari Yncarne, Yvraine, 2x serpent tanks, 2x wrathguard shooters, a flier, terrible terrible black rocket guys
This was an extremely cagey and hard fought game. He got first turn and was able to kill 2 robots with the damn rocket guys. When I got my turn my onager aced his flier and I moved and plopped the robots and rerolled on 6s to kill the rocket guys. The rest of the game was a slow grind with him having just 2 more hold objectives than me. I ground him down to 2 models with both onagers, cawl, 2 artillery, my conscripts, and 1 psyker left. But he won on secondaries with just yncarne and a car left on turn 6 24-21. He was a great opponent, good looking, fit, drank hard, great beard, hot girlfriend who liked to party. My chick hung out with his all morning. It was cool. This was by far the most tactical and we agreed it was the best game of the tournament. It should have been streamed.
Opponent 5:
Alex - Tau, Yvara, 2 forgeworld tau tanks, longstrike, 3 commanders, some crisis, some drones.
I took way too fething long to deploy and was a slow playing bitch. He had all the tools to just kill me by turn 2. It was vanguard strike on gak terrain. So I painstakingly measured out all of his advance distances for the YVara (it can kill the robots by itself). I knew exactly the line he would need if he got a 6 on the advance and I was just over it. My conscript screen largely held and denied any crisis drops until turn 3. His YVara rolled like gak and got an onager down to 4 wounds. My robots then walked up, plopped, and deleted the YVara. MY Neutrons then picked at his tanks all game until they were gone. Celestine ran up the middle and occupied the 'ground' floor to claim the central objective. Since I could crowd that objective with bodies and be 'non-LOS' due to ITC, he was fethed on points. The game was lost since he never tried to constest the middle. I made mistakes and he wouldn't let me take them back, but by the end he had 1 suit commander left. Earthshakers are rigged, start working on yours. I went hard on this guy. It was intense. Spectators were like, this is isn't chill anymore. Both of us were red and sweating. Laurence was like, why did you not let him concede? But afterwards we were buddies for sure. He was a go hard but fair guy. He asked me on a podcast afterwards and I want to go to his store. He is largely everyone's favorite.
Opponent 6:
Adam - much better Ynnari list, 4 serpents, 4 wraithguard, Yncarne, some caster
I heard from a source that Adam was a known cheat and was 1 more complaint from getting banned. I watched his dice the whole time. He played loose with movement and wound counters and I really didn't like his face. For some reasons my robots just couldn't wound. All my shooting was gak and this guy rerolled all kinds of failed saves as cocked dice. Coldest of cold shooting the whole time. His army manages to have -1 on everything all the time. It is super lame. He is oddly hard on rules for being so loose with stuff. Since my shooting just didn't work he eventually closed on my lines and I lost. I argued him into me getting 14 points and that got me to rank 23 and best admech. I usually finish tournaments 1-5, so hey, I will take it.
Comments on the list going forwards. My list is dead. The FAQ today killed it. I also think AdMech is dead when the new Eldar codex drops. Everything about the Ynnari wraithguard list will be even more horrendous as an infilitrating, strategeming, -2 to be hit list. Unless something radically changes I don't see myself taking this army to the LVO. What would be the point? If I draw eldar I would just lose period.
Celestine: as much as she did work all the time, in ITC she gives up full points on kingslayer and headhunter (since geminae are characters) every game. She devastates certain opponents, but people who bring truly hard lists will not be phased by celestine's modest damage output. Also, since conscripts are dead, she won't have the insane synergy with her 6++, TAKE COVER, and the +1 to save psychic power.
Dragoons: I kind of expected more damage. They drew fire like crazy, which I guess is good. I was pulling them all the time. But they often lived with 1 dragoon left somewhere. Running them as Mars is easier on the points, but they truly need to be stygies to land a real punch. The other problem is that with all the -1 and -2 to hit in the game, lots of people run 'flamery' weapons that auto hit. The YVara meant my dragoons had to start way back and they eventually got killed down to 1 due to the drop melta. I guess that beats having that on the robots, but their damage just wasn't what you might think. Against a lord of skulls, or plaguecrawlers, or tau, or wraithguard, they die in overwatch. So ... several games they just had to stand there and get shot.
Robots: yeah, they do what you think. Against non-cheaty, non-wraithguard BSS these guys delete what you point at them. Rolling 90 dice volleys is exhausting and I only got through it pounding stimulants. If you run admech, run 5 robots or don't bother in competitive events. Seriously. Every admech guy at socal had 5-6. No one even tried anything else.
Onagers: yeah, excellent. Maybe take another over celestine. Not sure tho, because she does so much work to threaten, contest, and punish softer list opponents. If you bring pathfinders, or drop guys, or human sized infantry, celestine can go find those models and farm them for points. The onagers on the other hand can roll like gak and not even scratch a wave serpent.
Earthshaker batteries: I thought mine were big enough. Some bros let me know I should get bigger stakes. These guys are utter BS. And the FAQ made them -3 now. At this point, I would run 6 if I had the models. They are just BSS through and through. Also, they are great objective holders. Just plop them down and forget about it. And you can shoot at things who melee them. WTF is that? And they don't give Big Game Hunter secondaries? And they aren't 'vehicles'? THe BSS never stops with forgeworld. Run more. Make more. Craft more. Do what you have to do to get more. They are the answer to the robot weaknesses.
Conscripts/Commisar: fuq fuq fuq they are dead. Commisars are nerfed now (kill 1, reroll morale instead of pass). Imperium is now seriously hard up for screens. If I start running Stygies then I need a fat stack of support character taxes and zero-damage units. I already don't have enough points in firepower and too much in support. Rangers might be like ... no, they are a bad screen period. They are just bad at it. And they don't do any damage. I have no idea what to do about screens here. I am half tempted just to yolo it and start running earthshakers as screens. But then I would need proper dimensions on the models and I did not have proper ones even with knight sized bases. I guess we run guardsmen? Guards are dramatically less survivable than conscripts because you can't stack up to that sweet sweet 3+/4++ with celestine on a 30 wound single unit. If you run your dragoons as a screen ... uh ... I guess? But then you can't hold objectives or get into buildings or commit them to killing. Winning with the robots mean hard packing base to base on the robots. Every time I left space I started to lose. Screening the robots means base to base and deep. I don't know how to do this without conscripts.
Astropaths: mandatory. Not optional. Put 2 in right now. The 'psychic maelstrom' power is an almost consistent 3 mortal wounds. It killed magnus game 2. Always take these stupid jerks. Who cares if they give up character kills. No one takes snipers and if they are dying then you are getting tabled. Also, they are an easy 'drop' during deployment since you don't actually care where they go.
Master of Ordinance: this is the most anti-meta weirdness in my list. I put the Relic of Lost Cadia on him 2 times. It got some serious wounding off with the earthshakers and he would only get better with more earthshaker batteries. If I go to LVO, yeah, 6 Earthshakers. Run them as screens. Until then, he is gone. This is just too finicky and gimpy and requries like 10 minutes to explain to my opponent and they still don't believe it.
ALSO
Brandon Grant won. He is something of my 40k idol. He plays the dirtiest, most secretive, most perfectly to the day meta lists of all time. He won with 90 conscripts, 10 primaris psyckers, 25 scions, and 5 tauroxen. Having a few psyckers is good, having 10 means your opponent can never deny you. His list wasn't even good at the ITC secondaries. He had heaps of HeadHunter (characters), Reaper(20+ model units), and BigGameHunter (Taurox). Didn't matter. When you have 10 smites you don't care.
EDIT2:
Watch the new Eldar codex battle report. I skimmed it just to watch some clips. Dark Angels Tabled in 2 turns with Dark Angels going first. Until chapter approved comes out I don't see admech doing as well again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGo3mErmfGc
Jason! Laurence here! Great write up man - you summed up our game perfectly. It was a hell of a game and definitely worth streaming.
Also, I wouldn't worry about the new Eldar codex making Ynnari broken as you can't access the new craftworld toys/shenanigans if you go Ynnari. It's either/or
Also, I wouldn't worry about the new Eldar codex making Ynnari broken as you can't access the new craftworld toys/shenanigans if you go Ynnari. It's either/or
But you can get CWE Strategems and still use an Ynnari detachment for the SfD, meaning Webway WG Quickening into some nasty shenanigans.
Suzuteo wrote: So I have found that my previous list has huge flaws:
1) Orders only affect Infantry. Batteries are Artillery, but not Vehicles. (Ugh...)
2) Company Commanders are very fragile, and it's easy to lose him once the closest Earthshaker dies.
3) It was pointed out to me that Enginseers and Skitarii Rangers are super expensive for CP.
An improved list:
Storm Pilgrim Batt...
Yes and I can tell you much more from my games now.
A) I don't have more basilisk or earthshkers so my lists are variants with basilisk and heavy weapons team or 2* earthshkers. And I always use 3 neutronagers.
B) I found that since I use an outrider and a dakka line my stygies benefit a lot from a formation like. 1*2 balistarii lasc and 1*4+ Dragoons. My enginseer healing balistarii and of my balistarii usually screen for my earthshkers in flanks. Not only they got -1 to get hit but also shoot 48. So they become really useful. While I tend to send my Dragoons to more offensive duties . Still you can use them as fast obj. Don't forget I use one less eartshker.
C) Robots with n outrider stygies and guard infantry and or Dragoons vs heavy charging armies i found better to work in. Group of 4. I only got 4 atm and they don't limit me so much. I believe 5-6 robots are an option to use with aegis not stationary as the volume of fire is enough. While I tend to use my 4 more agreesive since I don't rely only on them.
D) atm the one less robot and earthshaker I use (and don't have) I experiement with various options. Found best to be.
1) 3rd neutronager making me a pure antitank etc. Also giving me tabling options if dice comes in favor.
2) a unit of snipers 97 points . I rolled a double 6 lsat game vs dark ngels bb lietenant. Conceded turn one.
3) 1-2 astropths. If I use a single basilisk or I'm afraid of my commander warlord (always use two) the benefits are extreme. -1 to hit on my exposed side. Or deny enemy spells or even using agreesive mortals vs easier opponent. V good and we need some Psy defence.
4) priests. My initial take was melee priests. I consider them great and provide as robots a mortal source. The only problem so far is I can't seem to put them in formations. And atm I see them as a lower point games robots. So you either go for Cawl robots. Or in lower games tpd and priests etc. You need a big unit and each buff is 3 cp . So dragoon work better with robots while priests gotta take the place of heavy cp users. Not that is bad but atm I can't seem to get a vanguard stygies going. Maybe if you took both priest variant that could work in lower point games for sure. Still I'm gotta say stygies 85 points inf 5-8 of them can do serious damage but will Ork better vs elite armies while most likely a waste v horde.
Recap. You can twik this list. Bit to get some mobility. An important rule I try to keep is troops need to be stock. Plasma mortars etc won't do nothing their role is to get ignored as they serve as antihorde = deadmeat. Move move move fall back bla bla. Anything on them is a waste. When valhala was valid a team of plasma sure but now only cadian provides for both inf and earthshkers.
P.s haven't decided yet when I use 2 x earth shakers if the third onager should be icarus seem like it for cp usage bla bla. We see so fr 3 neutronager for competitive games.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/11/03 14:25:14
Also, I wouldn't worry about the new Eldar codex making Ynnari broken as you can't access the new craftworld toys/shenanigans if you go Ynnari. It's either/or
But you can get CWE Strategems and still use an Ynnari detachment for the SfD, meaning Webway WG Quickening into some nasty shenanigans.
Wow - yea I hadn't considered that.
Hang on, why would you even need a separate detachment to get access to that stuff? Surely they only gain the Ynnari keyword, it doesn't replace the Craftworlds keyword.
Also, I wouldn't worry about the new Eldar codex making Ynnari broken as you can't access the new craftworld toys/shenanigans if you go Ynnari. It's either/or
But you can get CWE Strategems and still use an Ynnari detachment for the SfD, meaning Webway WG Quickening into some nasty shenanigans.
Wow - yea I hadn't considered that.
Hang on, why would you even need a separate detachment to get access to that stuff? Surely they only gain the Ynnari keyword, it doesn't replace the Craftworlds keyword.
Man you've got me thinking now!
It doesn't replace it, but you lose Battle Focus and don't gain the CWE traits. You do get the CW keyword though and can be targeted by specific Strategems, which is cool. You need the separate detachment because you need a BF detachment to get access to the CWE strats, because Ynnari doesn't have it.
I am trying to ram together almost the same list for game empire next weekend. I want Stygies dragoons. I really do. But they just don't work with the CawlStar + ESBatteries battalion. You end up having to go down to like 5 starting CP to infiltrate them. And the infiltration awesomeness only actually destroys people if you get first turn ... which is not likely with your ~13 drops. This is why I am leaning towards just keeping the dragoons as mars and using them as the front rank. THis sucks against true shooting armies but against mixed armies this isn't much of a loss over the Stygies dragoons.
Also, consider replacing your second company commander with a primaris psyker. The Psyker gets you 1 deny and some possible mortal wounds.
EDIT: yes, running dragoons as auxiliary is the correct thing to do if you want Stygies. But only 3 detachments in ITC.
EDIT2: ITC is going to make Celestine be less of a terrible secondary point giveaway. So I may bring her back.
EDIT3: I think I have it. My most YOLO and META list ever. If the ITC changes go through on KINGSLAYER then I am for sure running this. If I run into a melee list, I will just put the ESBatteries in front of the robots.
Anyhow, these guys gost 40 points each. Hm. Would I want to just do two of these guys instead of a Company Commander and a Lord Commissar? My only concern is that I might be losing some of my Plasma Guns without Take Aim! spam.
Ahhhh. Right. Three detachment rule. So hard to make stuff fit.
This sacrifices some anti-tank for more CP; we will have to rely on Lasstriders (trading rerolls for the -1 to hit) and Earthshakers. To be honest, with Eldar going bike-happy and Tyranids getting a terrifying codex, Icarus Crawler might be more useful than we'd think.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hm... one crazy plan that I have thought about is to add three Infantry squads and a Company Commander into the Mars detachment.
We lose:
-Mars dogma
-Guard doctrine of choice
We get:
+Mars reroll
+Mars stratagems
+Guard orders
-Guard stratagems of choice
+2 CP
Here's the crazy list:
Spoiler:
Cadian Battalion Detachment - 467
HQ - 62 1x Company Commander - Boltgun, Chainsword, Warlord: Grand Strategist
1x Company Commander - Boltgun, Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila
Heavy Support - 720 4x Kastelan Robots - Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Heavy Phosphor Blasters
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
Stygies VIII Auxiliary Detachment - 408
Fast Attack - 408 6x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
Total: 1999 points 8 Command Points
Actually sort of works out. Three Company Commanders issuing two orders each to three Plasma Gun squads and three Lasrifle squads. Cadian so that the doctrineless dudes can still markerlight with the stratagem.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/11/03 19:02:45
Suzuteo I considered adding non-Mechanicus units to my Mars detachment also, with the logic being that we still get Mars rerolls and Mars stratagems...
But you completely 100% lose Canticles of the Omnissiah. Sure, Canticles are mostly garbage, but having cover always comes in handy.
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