Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yoda79 wrote:

You better off with a heavy weapons team not infantry with mortars . Or if you don't have the slot astropaths. Troops especially guard can and will move in many games .Yes they can screen but there are many games that you don't need to be stationary. Move move move is a superb card obj taker. Those mortars just make your troops stationary. If possible take a heavy weapons team if no slots then I'd suggest deep strike units plasma ratlings or astropaths.

Mortars don't make you stationary. They are so cheap, who cares if you skip a turn to move the unit? Having that 4d6 S4 shots over a few turns though can help. You can also target stuff out of LoS, which might help against remnant squads who run and hide. That alone is worth it, because we are not a mobile army overall (even if we can move some), so being able to pick off stranglers who might camp an objective behind LoS blocking terrain is very handy.

Astropaths struck me as more useful when we were doing a single Conscript squad we could buff. With 3-4 squads, it isn't as useful since we can't stack up Nightshroud and Barrier. The opponent will just shoot one of the squads without a buff(s).

Interesting result: onagers are exactly as durable as leman russes to plasma except leman russes have 1 more wound. Each confirmed plasma overcharge shot deals an average of .82 damage to the onager and .83 to the leman russ. The 5++ reroll 1 invuln on the onager pretty much makes up for the lower toughness. Of course this means the crawler is actually more resilient to things like lascannon a than the russ.

And it’s significantly cheaper

gendoikari87 wrote:
Interesting result: onagers are exactly as durable as leman russes to plasma except leman russes have 1 more wound. Each confirmed plasma overcharge shot deals an average of .82 damage to the onager and .83 to the leman russ. The 5++ reroll 1 invuln on the onager pretty much makes up for the lower toughness. Of course this means the crawler is actually more resilient to things like lascannon a than the russ.

And it’s significantly cheaper

The magic point is rerolling ones. That's what we need to have always. And that's why we can't split onagers to dogmas that's why are bound on 2* battalion or spearhead.cant be one unit can't be more than 2 in batt. Etc. If they could I would only play onagers.

What they need to do is give onagers grinding advance and make neutrons heavy 1. Then give them their power weapons back and you could field a whole army of onagers

gendoikari87 wrote:
What they need to do is give onagers grinding advance and make neutrons heavy 1. Then give them their power weapons back and you could field a whole army of onagers

I actually quite like my onagers to be able to move with no penalty. If neutron lost it's D3 shots it loses it's drama. The looks on peoples faces when you roll 3 shots on your neutron laser makes up for all the times you roll one. The potential to cripple, if not outright destroy any vehicle in one volley is something very few other guns have. 9 wounds minimum on 3 failed saves, even a single neutron shot is gauranteed 3 wounds on a failed save. In my experience with lascannon no-one is that worried about because it's a single shot and you can still roll a 1 or 2 on damage and it might as well have been a bolter or plasma.

It would benefit the beamer and twin heavy phosphor, but i'd rather the twin heavy phosophor wasnt even on there. I'd have liked to have seen the eradication beamer get a 3rd firing profile with more than d6 shots.

If we’re adding guns to the onager something akin to a twin assault cannon or punisher would have been nice. Something truly dangerous to hoards

My original plan was no heavy weapons teams, but MT doctrine with bolters and lasguns. Lots of moving, with the advance and shoot order being especially useful. Thing is, I envisioned two scenarios. The first being an aggressive objective grabbing scenario, which this would be good at. The second being the more common oh-crap-here-come-the-hordes scenario in which I have to stand in dragon's teeth formation and fight off a ton of gaunts or Boys. In which case, cheap Mortars and rerolls are essential. If I have to move to grab an objective, losing the bonus for a turn is a small price to pay.

Anyhow, another option is Mortars with MT doctrine instead of Cadian? I'll have to think about it.

D3 on the Onagers is amazing. I ran 2 against a Guard tank list, and with 2 Kastellan Robots I took 22 wounds off a Baneblade in 1 turn. No Cawl, and 1 Dunecrawler fluffed it. The other one inflicted 16 damage by itself.

gendoikari87 wrote:
If we’re adding guns to the onager something akin to a twin assault cannon or punisher would have been nice. Something truly dangerous to hoards

A dispersion-style firing profile on the eradication beamer would do that. Or somehow give the twin heavy phosphor double shots.

Though tbh robots are about as good a hoard counter as any. And dragoons do a pretty damn good job at it as well.

Octovol wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Or somehow give the twin heavy phosphor double shots.

This. But for all weapons. Other fire support tanks seem to have this, why not us?

I think the reasoning is we get move and fire.... you know in an army who’s only real trick is static gunline

gendoikari87 wrote:
I think the reasoning is we get move and fire.... you know in an army who’s only real trick is static gunline

The other units can move and fire too - just limited to half distance movement. I'd take that any day over our current rule, because I almost never move my gunline once it hits the table.

Yeah we really kinda got the shaft to the point it feels personal

I played a game against 6-Carnifex + 2 Malanthrope, Flyrant, and Hive Guard Tyranids and got stomped. Do we have any way of effectively negating a -1 to hit? My dakkabots hitting on 5+s (rerolling) and wounding on 5+s absolutely removed my ability to deal with the Fexen bearing down on me. I dropped Sicarians on the Hive Guard blob, but accomplished nothing and got wiped out in combat. My Onagers accomplished nothing, they simply didn’t have the firepower to remove Carnifexes fast enough. The Hive Guard wiped my Icarus Onager turn one, leaving behind the Neutron, so I just had no effective shooting all game.

Issue could be because of my lack of experience playing the army in 8th, but I’d still like some tips.

My list-
Battalion

Cawl
Enginseer
5x Blandguard
5x Blandguard
7x Rangers w/ 2x Arquebus
5x Sicarians w/ Stubbers/Power Swords
Datasmith
2x Dakkabots
Onager w/ Neutron
Onager w/ Icarus

Auxiliary
Greyfax
5x SoS w/ Flamers

Not enough Dakkabots, which with Wrath are putting mortals out on must-kill models. No Dragoons, which would be able to lock stuff up and slow them down.

Those are two issues right there. I don't leave home without 5 bots and I skipped the DS now, too.

You could spent turn one focusing down on his Malanthropes and then do turn two Wrathing down on the Fex. Point Onagers at Flyrant, hope you can stop it. If not, divide out some Dakkabots to handle it.

2 dakka bots is way not enough. Was this a cc list or shooty list 4-6 dakkabots with agrapinaa is a tough unit to successfully charge. Though if anything can do it it’d be t7 3+ models

gendoikari87 wrote:
2 dakka bots is way not enough. Was this a cc list or shooty list 4-6 dakkabots with agrapinaa is a tough unit to successfully charge. Though if anything can do it it’d be t7 3+ models

Yea, but Agripinaa is going to struggle hard with only re-rolling 1's vs re-rolling 1's, 2's and 3's. Mars is the way to go for Dakkabots, especially when we so desperately need Wrath to put Mortal wounds out there.

I mean dakka bots are super op to start with but they have a cc achillies heel. Going agrapinaa helps negate that weakness while keeping them op... just not op ermagerd kei oh ken x10 dragon slave level broken.

What’s the best way to kill the Malanthropes? They have 9 wounds, are characters, and were surrounded by Carnifexes. I tried sniping at them, but accomplished nothing (and got my snipers killed by a Flyrant).

I’m aware of my Dakkabot Deficit Deficiency, and am working to rectify it.

 Verviedi wrote:
What’s the best way to kill the Malanthropes? They have 9 wounds, are characters, and were surrounded by Carnifexes. I tried sniping at them, but accomplished nothing (and got my snipers killed by a Flyrant).

I’m aware of my Dakkabot Deficit Deficiency, and am working to rectify it.

Jeez, it is a character. Good job, FW. That definitely makes it just incredibly good (and a no-brainer for 'Nids). No easy way to take them out, so just aim 5 or 6 Wrathbots at their heavy hitters and bank on the re-rolls. Malanthropes are slowish, so are 'Fexes. Deploy very smart and make sure you have max turns to shoot. Speed bumps will help.

Remember the Mal bubble is only 3", so he isn't keeping everything in it. The Flyrant may not be, so knock that sucker down fast. It is a legit threat due to its speed.

Had a game against new Tyranids today, 1500 pts with my usual list, lost at turn three because of mission objectives that were unrealisable due to some casualties. From now on I know that to face a proper Tyranid list I have to form a last stand gunline block in a corner, just because of the ways they can pop up in your face with the Mawloc (the tunnel-thingy) that brang 30 S4 shooty gaunts right in my face. I understand why everyone bring Conscripts for screening but I want to keep it full AdMech.

 Aaranis wrote:
Had a game against new Tyranids today, 1500 pts with my usual list, lost at turn three because of mission objectives that were unrealisable due to some casualties. From now on I know that to face a proper Tyranid list I have to form a last stand gunline block in a corner, just because of the ways they can pop up in your face with the Mawloc (the tunnel-thingy) that brang 30 S4 shooty gaunts right in my face. I understand why everyone bring Conscripts for screening but I want to keep it full AdMech.

Dragoons are awesome for deep strike screening. Big oval base covers a lot of area.

Thanks, I’ll try to work on that. My current collection is very limited. Any sources you know of for cheap Dragoons? I’ve been holding off buying them due to prices.

 Verviedi wrote:
I played a game against 6-Carnifex + 2 Malanthrope, Flyrant, and Hive Guard Tyranids and got stomped. Do we have any way of effectively negating a -1 to hit? My dakkabots hitting on 5+s (rerolling) and wounding on 5+s absolutely removed my ability to deal with the Fexen bearing down on me. I dropped Sicarians on the Hive Guard blob, but accomplished nothing and got wiped out in combat. My Onagers accomplished nothing, they simply didn’t have the firepower to remove Carnifexes fast enough. The Hive Guard wiped my Icarus Onager turn one, leaving behind the Neutron, so I just had no effective shooting all game.

Issue could be because of my lack of experience playing the army in 8th, but I’d still like some tips.

My list-
Battalion

Cawl
Enginseer
5x Blandguard
5x Blandguard
7x Rangers w/ 2x Arquebus
5x Sicarians w/ Stubbers/Power Swords
Datasmith
2x Dakkabots
Onager w/ Neutron
Onager w/ Icarus

Auxiliary
Greyfax
5x SoS w/ Flamers

Your screen needs to be cheaper; those points can go into more artillery, which is the only way you will be competitive. I would recommend 15 Rangers for the bodies, but ideally, you want to do something like 30-40 Guardsmen in the current meta. Need something to soak up Smite and to form the "moat" of your castle.

Dragoons beat both flavors of Sicarians. A unit of 4 easily can kill a Carnifex each turn once the Conqueror Imperative is turned on.

You want 4 Dakkabots at a minimum. As for Crawlers, you need to work on some arrangement for target selection. If you have 5-6 Dakkabots, which are best for T4-5 (but let's be honest, they will just about murder anything if you need them to), then you want something to handle T6+ and T3. That means 2-3 Neutrons. Icarus and your troop screen can handle T3; Icarus actually fills a lot of the same roles as the Kastelans, only they trade raw damage for range, durability, and mobility.

Flamer SoS seems interesting. How did those work out? I actually would cut that Auxiliary for even more CP and dakka, but I have no experience with Greyfax or SoS.

gendoikari87 wrote:
I mean dakka bots are super op to start with but they have a cc achillies heel. Going agrapinaa helps negate that weakness while keeping them op... just not op ermagerd kei oh ken x10 dragon slave level broken.

This is why you need screening units arranged in a sort of staggered dragon's teeth arrangement; Tyranids pile-in is terrifying.

 Verviedi wrote:
Thanks, I’ll try to work on that. My current collection is very limited. Any sources you know of for cheap Dragoons? I’ve been holding off buying them due to prices.

Dragoons are dragoons. Just got to bite the bullet and buy the models. They aren't cheap and they are miserable to build and paint, but they are invaluable.

 Verviedi wrote:
Thanks, I’ll try to work on that. My current collection is very limited. Any sources you know of for cheap Dragoons? I’ve been holding off buying them due to prices.

Well, you could kitbash Scout Sentinels with a Skitarii and taser lance? Just slap them on the right base.

Then there's eBay and the Chinese recasters that occasionally sprout up like mushrooms.

EDIT: Never mind, forgot there are no plastic Penitent Engines.

EDIT 2: Oh, I found this:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/244333-wip-ad-mech-army-trading-a-craft-world-for-a-forge-world/?p=2953925

Some guy was making Skitarii bikes with Space Marine bikes, Fantasy High Elf legs, and Skitarii torsos. Just need to buy the bits.

$6.29 each lance
https://hoardobits.com/cgi-bin/hob/shop.pl?cat1=bones&cat2=Weapon%20Arms&cat3=&cat4=&page=1&view=01062016-2-36

$4.49 for 8x pairs of legs
https://hoardobits.com/cgi-bin/hob/shop.pl?cat1=Bits&cat2=Warhsdsdsammer&cat3=-High%20Elves&cat4=%3EHE%20Silverhelms&page=&view=04252013-1-74

A trio of bikes is ~$30. So 6 converted dragoons for ~$100?

Bikes as dragoons does not sound suitable to me. The dragoon is particularly huge for LOS and large to represent its toughness.

The difference in stats between a bike and a dragoon is massive. It would be like using a bike as a dreadnought.

Sigh yeah. Good point. It's like a third the volume. Guess Sentinel legs plus something on top. (On a side note, I've seen cool Dreadnought + Sentinel leg conversions.)

Oh, and looky here:
http://i.imgur.com/dTKC8cw.jpg

Your progeny. This is a dry fit. Just waiting for the magnets.

What a beautiful, healthy baby earthshaker!

D’awwww... makes me want to make some other arty platforms using Onager legs.