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gendoikari87 wrote:
I don’t think we have mediocre troops anymore. For 3 points more than a guardsmen you get +1 str +3” range +1 BS and +1 armor with an invuln save assault 2 plasma guns with range 18. All for 7 points. That’s all approaching cheaper versions of tempestus scions.

What they lack is deep strike and transports

They aren't awful, just mediocre. Most troops are, but ours really don't shine especially bright in the greater scheme of things. I still don't see them being worthwhile as a screen unit, nor is it worthwhile to really bring Plasma.

What we need is access to transports, as we all know. Fires may be our last hope for that, but that isn't coming until 2018 (which is weirdly close now!).

Even still, I wouldn't be packing Skitarii in a Triaros. And maybe Secutarii will come along and give us a good troop option. Who knows!

As it stands, for cheap fodder, Guard does it better.

Yeah but as cheap fodder NOTHING compares to guard. Maybe grots.... maybe

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yeah but as cheap fodder NOTHING compares to guard. Maybe grots.... maybe

Which is the point, of course. We need cheap fodder as a gunline - just like Guard.

On an aside, new rumor mill today has me... well, not excited really. Just curious and vaguely hopeful.



Given this type of part factors into almost every model in our range... maybe? I have my doubts, of course. If we were getting models, I would guess it would be during our release and not later. So it is probably something Marine related since they use that stuff too.

Maybe something for the Dark Angels coming along shortly.

Yeah probably DA or BA. But we can hope. Personally I’m about to sell my admech stuff. Save for a techpriest and tpd until gw comes out with fires so I can use vorax/thallax ect along side myrmidons to make sollus army

gendoikari87 wrote:

Octovol wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
The repair ability isn’t useless. Yeah people will shoot an onager to death, sometimes they fail and you can make them waste a few more shots. It also removes the ability of your opponent to shoot them to a lower profile and be able to worry less about them

It's useless when you are forced to have 3-4 of guys who repair when playing pure admech

Depends how many vehicles you have lol. At least you can run an enginseer into a vehicle and potentially deal 3-5 damage from 2 attacks

lol good luck on that 5+ to hit with the servo arm

Enginseer is 4+ both BS and Ws...which is another thing actually. why the hell is it not 3+ #copypastefail lol

Yes but that servo arm has a -1 to hit built in

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yes but that servo arm has a -1 to hit built in

Ah yeah, you're right. Still, potential 4 dmg from the Omnissian axe lol

Octovol wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yes but that servo arm has a -1 to hit built in

Ah yeah, you're right. Still, potential 4 dmg from the Omnissian axe lol

which isn’t bad especially with relics

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

On an aside, new rumor mill today has me... well, not excited really. Just curious and vaguely hopeful.

Terrain.

 axisofentropy wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

On an aside, new rumor mill today has me... well, not excited really. Just curious and vaguely hopeful.

Terrain.

Probably.

Man we’re an optimistic group

gendoikari87 wrote:
Man we’re an optimistic group

Well, to be fair, GW has had two shots to fix our stuff and has failed twice.

As the saying goes, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Man we’re an optimistic group

Well, to be fair, GW has had two shots to fix our stuff and has failed twice.

As the saying goes, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

thanks now I have soda all over my monitors. Needed a good laugh today, it’s been slow.

The sarcasm is strong is this thread 11001001 001110010

Yeah and none can argue this is. Pure ad mech threat and community. Steam punked with UPS and downs mostly intellect sarcasm and love for the little mech units.

Sadly gw fails. And I can agree somewhat the points vs our units seem a little bit fixed atm but still we got so few units and so few playable. We got cheap and broken units and we still struggle to get a top competitive game. They need to work something fast here. Maybe the canticles can help maybe if you take dominus canticle option a second set uras buffs something to make this army able to get some options for the rest .

A clear example would be the 7th deep stirke Domi us with 3 units. We need to get those enginseers a serious role separate buffs or auras par to liutenant elite choices all others got.

There is not a single buff out side of rerolling on shooting. It's limiting this army ND it can be a great one. It's sad. Even with knights we are low on unit count. And the lists won't work together for no reason.

Still enjoy the point decrease it can make some fun lists to try out units not so famous so far. If you got 8+ Dragoons or 20+ priests or 6+ Onagers or 40+ troops . Maybe kataphrons can help now. I really think if you max out heavy slots and can't take more Onagers or don't want more robots breachers for 120 can be a consideration now.

What can we do dakka line and again hope for more. I have started another army already!! Wish for new year ad mech!!!

Tip more than two basilisk are a waste since we got some nice guns already! My list can't fit in 2k no more lol.

Hehe. Yeah just trying to bring a bit of humour to the place. Cheer up yoda. I'm sure it will get better one day

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
I don’t think we have mediocre troops anymore. For 3 points more than a guardsmen you get +1 str +3” range +1 BS and +1 armor with an invuln save assault 2 plasma guns with range 18. All for 7 points. That’s all approaching cheaper versions of tempestus scions.

What they lack is deep strike and transports

They aren't awful, just mediocre. Most troops are, but ours really don't shine especially bright in the greater scheme of things. I still don't see them being worthwhile as a screen unit, nor is it worthwhile to really bring Plasma.

What we need is access to transports, as we all know. Fires may be our last hope for that, but that isn't coming until 2018 (which is weirdly close now!).

Even still, I wouldn't be packing Skitarii in a Triaros. And maybe Secutarii will come along and give us a good troop option. Who knows!

As it stands, for cheap fodder, Guard does it better.

To be honest, how much would a transport actually help? AdMech really doesn't have anything worth transporting now that skitarii have been reduced to chaff. Infiltrators have their own movement ability and Ruststalkers are just bad. Transports only see use in Chaos circles as a delivery system for Khorne Berzerkers, and that's because Berzerkers are an insanely strong unit who's only drawback is the inability to Get There. Even if an AdMech transport were introduced, what would you do with it?

This is largely why I hate what seems to be a race to the bottom for troop units; nothing in the troop slot is allowed to be lethal enough to stand on its own so troops exist only as a body to absorb shots, which means that only the cheapest bodies that absorb the most shots per point are worth anything.

The advantage of transports is increase in movement and protection. Imagine moving and advancing a chimera full of two 5 man skitarii with 2 plasma calivers each, popping out turn 2 and just unloading. makes their threat range much bigger and the hull makes them much more resilient. Suddenly you can't just ignore the skitarii as chaff anymore.

Just for comparison, the plasma in 2x 5 man squads alone is 8 shots at close range. for 126 points. compare that to a full out plasmacutioner which for 40% more only gets on average 11 if it moved less than half. and then you have another 6x3 lasgun shots Troops aren't all light on firepower they just die easy.

To deliver a CC Techpriest (yes they exist) with some plasma Vanguards, or most reliably, to allow your Fulgurites to form a full squad and go destroy everything. And because almost every army have one and we don't because reasons.

We got elitish troops like marines almost. Cheap marines. They got a role and that is pew pew. Can't survive cant melee but sure can shoot. Snipers arc plasma all valid and vnguard -1 tough is huge. If you play as support army. Gotta see how it will work out with breachers tbh. If breachers can actually stand firm them in paper we can win!

Needs testing but a cheap breacher unit backed from a cheap arc vang unit can't hurt . While ranger snipers can be a triple choise for two battalions maybe 10 man vang.maybe taser on alpha seems like cheap and durable options for two battalions. And I d most likely play or test if you like.

1*3-6breachers 2*5 snipers stygia. 2*5 vang taser and 1*5 ranger arc or plasma mars. Don't seem that bad even 10 man valid. And just so you know when you use a battalion example mars battalion an enginseer with rayment of technomartyr rocks. All you heavy hitting troops even robots on 6 extra hits. Can make a difference vs horde lists. If you see a great danger coming vs your breachers spend the cp for +1 save and +1 attack.

The problem with Skitarii, I believe, is that they have good guns, but will never get close enough to actually use them. An effective transport may make Peltasts (FIRES OF CYRAXUS PLZ) and plasma Vanguard effective.

Assault weapons can move fine. They are not as slow as you think and have shroud when moved to open ground . A dunestrider maybe a help on advance would make them just where they need to be. Transport for priests sure. Rusttalkers maybe if fixed don't need transport for troops no!

So with the new drop in points, I've been finally able to squeeze in a Mars and Stygies into 1500pts. I know this list isn't optimal (lots of infantry, neither loads of Robots or Dragoons) - but any suggestions? What would its greatest threats be?

Stygies Batallion Detachment
HQ
Tech Priest Engineseer
Servo Arm
Relic: Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land

Tech Priest Dominus
Eradication Ray
Macro Stubber

TROOPS
5 Skitarii Rangers
Transonic Arquebus

5 Skitarii Rangers
Transonic Arquebus

5 Vanguard

9 Vanguard
Plasma Culvarin
Enhanced Data Tether

FAST ATTACK
2 Sydonian Dragoons
2 Taser Lances

ELITE
Sicarian Infiltrators
Flechette Blasters
Taser Goad

Mars - Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Crawl

ELITE
Cybernetica Datasmith
Power Fist
Gamma Pistol

HEAVY SUPPORT
3 Kastellan Robots
6 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array

 Aaranis wrote:
To deliver a CC Techpriest (yes they exist) with some plasma Vanguards, or most reliably, to allow your Fulgurites to form a full squad and go destroy everything. And because almost every army have one and we don't because reasons.

pffft i mean it's not like the mechanicus builds the chimeras and rhinos the Imperial guard or space marines use. They can't just literally pull one from the factory floor which they don't fully and totally control.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
To deliver a CC Techpriest (yes they exist) with some plasma Vanguards, or most reliably, to allow your Fulgurites to form a full squad and go destroy everything. And because almost every army have one and we don't because reasons.

pffft i mean it's not like the mechanicus builds the chimeras and rhinos the Imperial guard or space marines use. They can't just literally pull one from the factory floor which they don't fully and totally control.

They build them reluctantly though. We’re not building their gak out of the goodness of our hearts, we will not lower ourselves to the likes of the rest of the imperium. Such mundaneness. We save the good stuff for ourselves. We’re just...REALLY saving it. Really.

Octovol wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
To deliver a CC Techpriest (yes they exist) with some plasma Vanguards, or most reliably, to allow your Fulgurites to form a full squad and go destroy everything. And because almost every army have one and we don't because reasons.

pffft i mean it's not like the mechanicus builds the chimeras and rhinos the Imperial guard or space marines use. They can't just literally pull one from the factory floor which they don't fully and totally control.

They build them reluctantly though. We’re not building their gak out of the goodness of our hearts, we will not lower ourselves to the likes of the rest of the imperium. Such mundaneness. We save the good stuff for ourselves. We’re just...REALLY saving it. Really.

*hugs* it'll be okay man, we're just saving it for fires. you'll see, the macrocarid and triarios will get plastic kits, GW will pay attention to us again. We'll become the top army, replacing guard...you'll see. you just have to believe the future is bright. the future, is a grand place.... i guess i'm just trying to make a defensive case for the future.

I was browsing through some 30k stuff and saw that the backpacks for these guys looked pretty similar to the rumour engine image.

I'm not seeing it bro.

Guard infantry are way better than Skitarii for many reasons:

1) HQ has best warlord trait and relic in the game; AdMech is CP hungry, but pays high taxes for it
2) Cheaper HQ with very useful orders
3) Almost double the number of wounds per point
4) 48" heavy weapons and cheap plasma that synergizes with points #2 and #3
5) Almost double the number of bodies; more coverage, deeper screening

I personally run Mortars because they are ridiculously cheap and point efficient; I am actually shocked that they were left untouched. They kill Drones, Gaunts, GEQs, Boyz, etc. This frees up Kastelans up to hit harder targets and is a huge deal when you're facing something like Green Tide.

The damage output on skitarii are better. They are basically storm troopers without deepstrike capability. which is half the utility storm troopers have but hey.

Guard have some amazing strategems though that admech just plain does not have.