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gendoikari87 wrote:
The damage output on skitarii are better. They are basically storm troopers without deepstrike capability. which is half the utility storm troopers have but hey.

Guard have some amazing strategems though that admech just plain does not have.

Really? Compared to rerolling Mortars and FRFSRF? I would like to see math on that because nothing I have seen demonstrates this point. I guess maybe against slightly tougher units, sure. But that's what the artillery is for.

5 vanguard are 40 and have 15 str 3 at 18" and 12" and 0 at 24".

10 guardsmen with an order are 40 and have 18 str 3 shots at 24" and 18", and 36 str 3 shots at 12".

I believe that means there is no range band where the vanguard are superior?

Then again the order for the guard should be factored in as 15 points, so the vanguard would have 2 more members for 21 shots against the guardsmen squad 18 at 24" or 18" and 36 shots at 12".

 ph34r wrote:
5 vanguard are 40 and have 15 str 3 at 18" and 12" and 0 at 24".

10 guardsmen with an order are 40 and have 18 str 3 shots at 24" and 18", and 36 str 3 shots at 12".

I believe that means there is no range band where the vanguard are superior?

Then again the order for the guard should be factored in as 15 points, so the vanguard would have 2 more members for 21 shots against the guardsmen squad 18 at 24" or 18" and 36 shots at 12".

You're forgetting Guardsmen are BS 4 and Vanguard are BS3 and for the same number have 4 times the special weapons, the lasguns are are just gravy, the meat and potatoes are the special weapons. The closest guard can come to matching that is veterans who don't have a 4+ save and 6+ invuln. There's special weapons squads though who are still only BS 3 and 1 in 2 special weapons vs 2 in 5 so kind of a wash there but the SWS are cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
The damage output on skitarii are better. They are basically storm troopers without deepstrike capability. which is half the utility storm troopers have but hey.

Guard have some amazing strategems though that admech just plain does not have.

Really? Compared to rerolling Mortars and FRFSRF? I would like to see math on that because nothing I have seen demonstrates this point. I guess maybe against slightly tougher units, sure. But that's what the artillery is for.

one mortar or Heavy weapons squads. Heavy weapons squads are a different game entirely and used for entirely separate purposes.

Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Mathammer:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k

Here you go. It's not the be all end all. But it's a good indication on what's overpriced and what isn't.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Ok, first off, the math was for 7 vanguard, because 10 vanguard does not cost the same points as 10 guardsmen.

If you want to compare that though, it's 80 for the 10 vanguard and another 56 for the 4 calivers, so 136. 20 guardsmen with 2 plasmas and a commander is 124, so a bit less, but we can compare anyway.

18 las shots 12 hits and 8 plasma shots 5 hits... vs 40 las shots 20 hits and 4 plas shots 2 hits. The vanguard obviously are better for holding plasma, but nobody is taking plasma on their vanguard are they?

Exactly what we trying to say without having to resolve to the exact number. Skitarii are eilitsh cheap marines got invu and nice bs better survive. And canticles are build in not like orders. ( Shroud makes them even better while moving) don't forget to advance assault weapons for speed.

The problem as always with ad mech vs anything else is not 5 points or. Data tether for moral or how you buff guard vs skitarii . It's the option orders make them versatile able to be fast fall back actually do something in melee etc.

Still vnanguards or rangers can perform if they are 10 with rerolls or maybe str +1 or rerolling in melee etc.

It's guard better designed for their role with hq cot and synergy and esier buff if you want to make a strategy with troops. And the cp 5+/5+ bs our solo 6+.

Still they are close atm and you can all see the use. Depending on points and usage they can be of use. Mortar and lasguns only good v horde. Skitarii can be snipers for chrs plasma for bigger target even arc for some pre melee usage. Don't forget that -1 tough. So as I see it breachers vang ranger in various izes or gear can make some nasty combos with some dogmas.

As always with ad mech no we want single bigger units. 10 vanguard so you pay once for tether moral. Ranger snipers one unit for omnispex payed once.
Breachers of more are better for screener etc. Same goes for buffs. If you spend the cp for any reason defence or offence you better off with. Bigger unit.
And the changes stratagems etc makes me go that way rather than spamm lits.
Deversity with units not superb as said but can be optimised for situations. Or even try dogma spam like graia vanguard's stygies breathes ND Snipes Mar shooters etc.

Some relics need to we worked out won't agree that healing is o good.!!

Tip start picking canticles with a plan. Shroud if you gonna go second pick it not random it. Reroll ones in melee pick it for Dragoons when you go in for cp. Etc. Make a plan try to make it happen that simple buff can be really nice. So even if Cawl is not there you still got plan.

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Ok, first off, the math was for 7 vanguard, because 10 vanguard does not cost the same points as 10 guardsmen.

If you want to compare that though, it's 80 for the 10 vanguard and another 56 for the 4 calivers, so 136. 20 guardsmen with 2 plasmas and a commander is 124, so a bit less, but we can compare anyway.

18 las shots 12 hits and 8 plasma shots 5 hits... vs 40 las shots 20 hits and 4 plas shots 2 hits. The vanguard obviously are better for holding plasma, but nobody is taking plasma on their vanguard are they?

they may not take plasma now because the range is not that great but suddenly give them transports which protect them and get them there and voila. problem solved.

Take plasma take big unit with 3 . Take tether or omnisp. Use canticles and advance they can do enough in two turns with shroud and advance . Don't forget to pick rerolling ones where. You go shooting that overcharged plasma . Turn one Shroud pick run run second try for. Shroud or place in cover maybe get dragoon in. Then 3 Rd round your troop gun need to support with rerolling ones and the. From that point on A +1 str for -1 tough vang and some awesome priest dragon hits can work. Play the weapons we got they can bring results situational ofc. Need more need breachers always Dragoons maybe priests etc. You need to make enemy think many threats so you can at least get part of your plan to work. A signle vang unit same a dragoon won't bring results.

What I try to say is as with most rushing armies the plan work in waves. Either you spend cp and infiltrate more units that w don't have or I consider Dragoons or priests arrive first then waves inc. you better bet is vnguard and some good rolls and shoot while moving. Followed by slow breacher and snipers camping back.

Abjust accordingly. But you need to support you offensive if need. Same for defnc vang in front brechers etc. You robots will survive for two rounds of shooting.

I m already looking for different options. I don't think my Dragoons need to be infiltrated they got enough speed. I m considering other options atm slower moving units with a plan to back the up with Dragoons etc. Don't want to spend always my Dragoons as dead tar pit in enemy lines. -2 to get hit is enough to run the field while I can get some melee units faster in front. Maybe something g cheap like priests or rusttalkers. Vanguard can run. Dragoons can run and that's why I got stygies to decide what I want to send in or not!!!

So I m thinking to try the troop mix and get the Dragoons and vanguard running g since they are fast and deep strike a unit of 6 breachers and use the 1 cp defence . They gonna survive enough or shoot enemy vehicles to make a mess in enemy line before the rest of my units arrive. Or my counter priests pick a target to get a 3+ invu. Cheaper than termies.

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Ok, first off, the math was for 7 vanguard, because 10 vanguard does not cost the same points as 10 guardsmen.

If you want to compare that though, it's 80 for the 10 vanguard and another 56 for the 4 calivers, so 136. 20 guardsmen with 2 plasmas and a commander is 124, so a bit less, but we can compare anyway.

18 las shots 12 hits and 8 plasma shots 5 hits... vs 40 las shots 20 hits and 4 plas shots 2 hits. The vanguard obviously are better for holding plasma, but nobody is taking plasma on their vanguard are they?

Numbers are off.

136 points buy you 6 Radium Carbines and 4 Plasma Calivers. We're going to ignore the lack of an HQ for rerolls here.

127 points buy you 3 Bolters, 16 Lasguns, 2 Plasma Guns. You get to make an order, let's just assume it's FRFSRF.

3x S4, 32x S3, 2x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 24"
6x S4, 64x S3, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 12"

vs.

6x S3 shots that do D2 on 6, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS3 at 18"

If we're shooting infantry, the top is clearly better. I guess if we're shooting at vehicles, the plasma is better. But you know what is even better at hitting vehicles? A lascannon, which you can get for 20 points.

18xs3 shots that do d2 on a 6 not 6

The raw shooting maths dosen't factor in that you don't start in optimal range

vanguard can advance and fire often meaning they can shoot T1 at 75% effectiveness as they can fire d6" into the opponents deployment zone. while if the enemy remain in their deployment zone most of the guards weapons do nothing meaning guardsman have to make up an entire rounds worth of shooting.

Then on return fire T1 the vanguard have 4+ 6++ and auto cover for 3+ (+if you are stygies -1 for the enemy to hit you)

The guardsman have a 5+ and are likely not in cover so take twice as many W amplified by moral losses which effect there large units more so by the time they can fire are not firing at full effectiveness

Take 10 bolt gun shots at 24" (pot shots from two tac squads Sgt with storm bolter and hw going elsewhere)

Against guard 2.96 dead (and a moral check)
Against stygies admech 1.11 dead

So T2 when both squads are in range guard have had their effectiveness reduced more than the admech

Suzuteo wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Ok, first off, the math was for 7 vanguard, because 10 vanguard does not cost the same points as 10 guardsmen.

If you want to compare that though, it's 80 for the 10 vanguard and another 56 for the 4 calivers, so 136. 20 guardsmen with 2 plasmas and a commander is 124, so a bit less, but we can compare anyway.

18 las shots 12 hits and 8 plasma shots 5 hits... vs 40 las shots 20 hits and 4 plas shots 2 hits. The vanguard obviously are better for holding plasma, but nobody is taking plasma on their vanguard are they?

Numbers are off.

136 points buy you 6 Radium Carbines and 4 Plasma Calivers. We're going to ignore the lack of an HQ for rerolls here.

127 points buy you 3 Bolters, 16 Lasguns, 2 Plasma Guns. You get to make an order, let's just assume it's FRFSRF.

3x S4, 32x S3, 2x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 24"
6x S4, 64x S3, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 12"

vs.

6x S3 shots that do D2 on 6, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS3 at 18"

If we're shooting infantry, the top is clearly better. I guess if we're shooting at vehicles, the plasma is better. But you know what is even better at hitting vehicles? A lascannon, which you can get for 20 points.

Right point being the vanguard have the more flexibility, better damage output against a wider range of targets. Guardsmen aren't going to be a threat to everything they see. vanguard can. though i'd be tempted to run rangers over vanguard in such a formation. They also have more armor, survivability and damage per model, meaning you get more bang for your transport capacity. Especially if the triarios manifests still at a capacity of 20....but then if it manifests at 20, forget every forgeworld but mars, grab priests, activate wrath if you need a tank gone, if not point click delete when they get out.

DUUUUUUDE, 20 corps priests in a tank with Wrath of Mars HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
DUUUUUUDE, 20 corps priests in a tank with Wrath of Mars HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

not an unrealistic expectation within the next 6 months too. With fw showing tons of red Scorpions stuff I’d expect fires to be due out q1-2 of 2018

gendoikari87 wrote:
The damage output on skitarii are better. They are basically storm troopers without deepstrike capability. which is half the utility storm troopers have but hey.

Guard have some amazing strategems though that admech just plain does not have.

The issue is that lack of synergy. We need cheap fodder to protect our gunline and paying a premium for our low leadership infantry hurts this strategy. Guard does it right - they have synergy across faction. We are essentially Skorne for 40k. It is a bit infuriating.

Plus, the whole CP regen from the Company Commanders is nuts. We need to Wrath as many turns as possible and this gives us that much more reliably.

Suzuteo wrote:

Spoiler:

 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Fair point. So optimal circumstances for the vanguard, 7 vanguard have 21 shots and hit 14.

Optimal circumstances, 9 guardsmen fire 36 shots at 12" with order FRFSRF, and hit with 18 of them.

no 10 Vanguard have 18 shots and 8 Plasma shots. 10 guardsmen have 36 lasgun shots and 2 plasma. That's the comparison. That's 16 vs 4 possible wounds on vehicles, terminators, monsters, ect and the vanguard will be more consistent

Ok, first off, the math was for 7 vanguard, because 10 vanguard does not cost the same points as 10 guardsmen.

If you want to compare that though, it's 80 for the 10 vanguard and another 56 for the 4 calivers, so 136. 20 guardsmen with 2 plasmas and a commander is 124, so a bit less, but we can compare anyway.

18 las shots 12 hits and 8 plasma shots 5 hits... vs 40 las shots 20 hits and 4 plas shots 2 hits. The vanguard obviously are better for holding plasma, but nobody is taking plasma on their vanguard are they?

Numbers are off.

136 points buy you 6 Radium Carbines and 4 Plasma Calivers. We're going to ignore the lack of an HQ for rerolls here.

127 points buy you 3 Bolters, 16 Lasguns, 2 Plasma Guns. You get to make an order, let's just assume it's FRFSRF.

3x S4, 32x S3, 2x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 24"
6x S4, 64x S3, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS4 at 12"

vs.

6x S3 shots that do D2 on 6, 4x S8 AP-3 D2 shots at BS3 at 18"

If we're shooting infantry, the top is clearly better. I guess if we're shooting at vehicles, the plasma is better. But you know what is even better at hitting vehicles? A lascannon, which you can get for 20 points.

Does that 127 points include the officer to issue the order? Because you cant do a straight comparison if it doesn't, not if we're comparing firepower for ppm.

---

I dunno why, but I tend to avoid lascannons. I dont like the all or nothing aspect of it. If each shot doesn't do 4-5 damage it feels like a waste of points. Neutron gets round this aspect by always being a minimum of 3 dmg, plasma gets round it by having more shots. Dont get me wrong when the dice are in your favour a wounding lascannon shot is devastating to a multi-wound model, but it doesn't feel special. I dont mind relying on dice favour to do something outrageous, but not when i've spent a lot of points just to get that chance.

Which is why i dislike ruststalkers rules at the moment: didn't role a 6 to wound? might as well not have been there. And even then, chord claw aside, it's only 1 dmg. The +1 str on the blades doesn't even alleviate the unlikely-to-wound-factor the transonic weaponry now has. It used to be much better if you could survive a round of combat (which you did because you had marine stats fnp and an invul) or rolled 6s on charge. Now you just have the 6s component. Anyway, i digress.

8th edition is all about the amount of dice you throw. Not only because it's better statistically as both Hordes and Anti-Horde weapons are the thing this edition, but it also averages out, so you don't have many outliers. So if you take the best statistically units you can and throw a lot of dice - you will usually win.
Which is why Astra Militarum has won 3 out of 3 biggest ITC tournements - Nova Open, Bao and SoCal Open

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
8th edition is all about the amount of dice you throw. Not only because it's better statistically as both Hordes and Anti-Horde weapons are the thing this edition, but it also averages out, so you don't have many outliers. So if you take the best statistically units you can and throw a lot of dice - you will usually win.
Which is why Astra Militarum has won 3 out of 3 biggest ITC tournements - Nova Open, Bao and SoCal Open

Not just this edition - but really all dice games. Statistics are king. It is on the designers to find a way to make it more interesting than rolling buckets of dice and hoping the opponent rolls 1's... sadly, that seems to be what 40k is now more than ever and especially our faction *cough*Robots*cough*.

Can you guys name me the most often seen ranged weapons in the competitive scene? I got Bolter, Lasgun, LasCannon. And units they are attached to as I need the To Hit too


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AdMech durability chart. Green is good. Red is bad. White is average. Yellow is characters. Their durability doesn't really matter as they are immortal until turn 4 or so

With shroudpsalm

With Stygies

With shroudpsalm and stygies

Every time I have played vanguard they have gotten off at most 1 round of shooting and they usually aren't in range for Cawl's aura. Any points spent on their shooting is just a waste. The real deciding factor is those 30 point commanders that have baller relics and wltraits. Canticles have nothing on orders and point for point admech foot troops can't shoot as well as FRSF unless you have Cawl providing full rerolls. There is even that 'move real fast' order that lets you functionally advance twice.

We don't have enough CP for the deepstrike tricks to work, and the infiltrations isn't reliable due to usually not going first.

Hey folks, I got two questions:

1) Whats our best bet in dealing with Mortarion / Magnus?

2) Normally I´m playing armoured Guard, so lots of mechanised infantry and Russes. Is there some good way to combine it with AdMech or should I just stick to solo Guard?

Right. I think a lot of these Guard and Skitarii comparisons fail to address the core issue: WHY are we taking these guys? What is their role in an AdMech army?

I have three objectives for my infantry:
1) Camp on objectives and hold them. This means quantity matters.
2) Deny deep strike through forward deployment ahead of the main army. Again, quantity matters.
3) Engage other infantry. The reason why I emphasize Mortars is because my troops don't have to move off objectives and their deployment to hit enemy troops.
4) Absorb wounds for characters and in CC. Wounds matter.

Skitarii do worse than Guard at all of these things. I also need them for the CP recycling Warlord anyway.

Considering something way off the wall here. We can make a brigade for super cheap. Like really really cheap. And I am liking the Cybernetica Datasmith as a 45 point, 4 wound terminator that does better against vehicles than people expect. What if SYGIES were the screen and CP farm for CADIA? Unlimited command points and infiltration of short range guys for days.



This would provide a solid base of -1 to hit firepower around the TPD, 4 infiltrated dragoons, and spare enginseers to babysit the dragoons and the basilisks. Sure, there is no mortal wound machine coming from dakkastelons, but relic of lost cadia + the overlapping fields of fire strategem can make up for that shortfall. The 3x1 CDS are a surprise punch in melee and the rangers and vanguard can spread out as suicide screens.

EDIT: about skitarii again, something to consider is that they are only 5 guys. It is more likely that i can stuff them into something and out of LOS since only 5 of them instead of 10 guardsmen. Also, I think STYGIES and MARS onagers are flatly better point for point than Leman russes. They are more mobile and have invul saves and better accuracy (especially with unlimited CP to fuel the +2 every turn for 1 of them).

 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks, I got two questions:

1) Whats our best bet in dealing with Mortarion / Magnus?

2) Normally I´m playing armoured Guard, so lots of mechanised infantry and Russes. Is there some good way to combine it with AdMech or should I just stick to solo Guard?

1) Six Wrathbots w/ Cawl - you can drop a Primarch a turn, just about. Add your Neutronagers to the mix and you should be good.

2) lol Usually AdMech borrows from Guard. Post-CA, not sure how much, but taking the aforementioned Cawl + Wrathbots is a solid addition in a Spearhead with some Neutronagers. Its a good half your army, but you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks, I got two questions:

1) Whats our best bet in dealing with Mortarion / Magnus?

2) Normally I´m playing armoured Guard, so lots of mechanised infantry and Russes. Is there some good way to combine it with AdMech or should I just stick to solo Guard?

1) Six Wrathbots w/ Cawl - you can drop a Primarch a turn, just about. Add your Neutronagers to the mix and you should be good.

2) lol Usually AdMech borrows from Guard. Post-CA, not sure how much, but taking the aforementioned Cawl + Wrathbots is a solid addition in a Spearhead with some Neutronagers. Its a good half your army, but you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

2) I know for cheap bubblewrap, CP and artillery. But since I´m not playing "normal guard" but rather full armoured / mechanised I thought there might be some nice synergies ;-)

Whats with adding Icarus Onager or Snipers? Are they worth it?

An interesting Brigade thought Wulfey, I just wonder how we would fare with zero robots and in fact not even a Magos Dominus for rerolls?

Wulfey wrote:
Considering something way off the wall here. We can make a brigade for super cheap. Like really really cheap. And I am liking the Cybernetica Datasmith as a 45 point, 4 wound terminator that does better against vehicles than people expect. What if SYGIES were the screen and CP farm for CADIA? Unlimited command points and infiltration of short range guys for days.

Spoiler:

STYGIES brigade
TPD 125
2x Enginseer 90
3x1 Onagers, 150, 150, 140
1x4 Dragoons 272 (always infiltrate)
1x1 Autocannon Ballistari 75 / 1x1 LasBallistari 95
3x1 CDS, 45, 45, 45 (consider infiltrating for shenanigans)
4x5 naked rangers
2x5 naked vanguard (always infiltrate)

CADIA Spearhead
Commander (5+ refund + relic of lost cadia)
5x1 Basilisk
// about 10-30 leftover points for bolter, stubber, lascannon upgrades

This would provide a solid base of -1 to hit firepower around the TPD, 4 infiltrated dragoons, and spare enginseers to babysit the dragoons and the basilisks. Sure, there is no mortal wound machine coming from dakkastelons, but relic of lost cadia + the overlapping fields of fire strategem can make up for that shortfall. The 3x1 CDS are a surprise punch in melee and the rangers and vanguard can spread out as suicide screens.

EDIT: about skitarii again, something to consider is that they are only 5 guys. It is more likely that i can stuff them into something and out of LOS since only 5 of them instead of 10 guardsmen. Also, I think STYGIES and MARS onagers are flatly better point for point than Leman russes. They are more mobile and have invul saves and better accuracy (especially with unlimited CP to fuel the +2 every turn for 1 of them).

Yeah, I think I pointed this out earlier when we were talking about how damn cheap the taxes got in our army. I would actually try to fit in more Ironstriders though. The army is going to rely a lot on Doctrina spam.

1 Company Commander - 30
3 Basilisk - 324
1 Dominus - 125
2 Enginseer - 94
6x5 Skitarii Ranger - 210
4 Dragoon - 272
3 Lascannon Ballistarii - 285
1 Autocannon Ballistarii - 75
3 Datasmith - 132
1 Icarus Crawler - 130
1 Icarus Crawler - 130
1 Icarus Crawler - 130

1937 points

Your costs also seem a bit off. Two Enginseers is 94 points. Neutron and Icarus Crawlers are 140 and 130 points. CDS is now 44.

Suzuteo wrote:
Right. I think a lot of these Guard and Skitarii comparisons fail to address the core issue: WHY are we taking these guys? What is their role in an AdMech army?

I have three objectives for my infantry:
1) Camp on objectives and hold them. This means quantity matters.
2) Deny deep strike through forward deployment ahead of the main army. Again, quantity matters.
3) Engage other infantry. The reason why I emphasize Mortars is because my troops don't have to move off objectives and their deployment to hit enemy troops.
4) Absorb wounds for characters and in CC. Wounds matter.

Skitarii do worse than Guard at all of these things. I also need them for the CP recycling Warlord anyway.

1) stygies AdMech are overall more durable and rangers most durable for the pts. Although guard are strong at this.
2) neither perform this roll well as neither deploy ahead of the army although since AdMech can advance and fire they ofter get further T1.
3) AdMech are better T1 going first guard become significantly better at 9"
4) stygies admech take 50% less W T1,T2 and then don't lose anywhere near the w to moral so are net better

5) advancing to take and hold enemy objectives favours vanguard who can advance and fire.

Here is the thing about Cawl rerolls, he was super good for two things: (1) units with 4+ to hit and (2) negating modifiers due to the typo. If I don't have the kastelons, icarus / neutrons usually hit on a 3+ with good target selection. 3+ rerolling 1s is ~73% while 3s rerolling is ~88%. That is a significant difference, but is it worth 115 points and giving up the -1 to be hit? Also, if you run the ballistari ball, then you don't even need cawl period because you are on 2s rerolling 1s. Phosphor kastelons are useless without Cawl, but the onagers and ballistari can get by because you have the CP to funnel +2 to hit into one of them a turn.

The other thing I like about the admech brigade + basilisks is the enginseer synergy. Every vehicle on the board can be repaired by 2 different guys.

Yeah my points are pretty whacky right now. But something to think about the ballistari ball, you can put it out of LOS maybe on the first turn, move it, and still be hitting on 2s rerolling 1s against a 0 modifier target.

EDIT: pretty sure CDS is 42 points
20 points base, 10 points for pistol, 12 for fist

A base terminator is:
26 + 12 + 2 = 40 points and he only has 2 wounds, while the CDS has 4 wounds.