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2017/12/10 18:28:09
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
rvd1ofakind wrote: Doing a damage chart. Turns out - vanguard are pretty amazing as long as they don't fight terminators. They are better antitank than Neutron
I noticed that too. But then I remembered that they have 18" guns, 6" move, and awful CC (no pistols or chainsword/choppa-equivalent). They will pretty much auto-lose against any other horde army; strong CC is what makes a horde army work.
Verviedi wrote: Hm, you think a list of 200 or so Blandguard with supporting elements just walking down the field and eating everything would work? My worry is being hamstrung by leadership and Heavy Bolters.
honestly i think unless you run units of 20+ worring about leadership is overrated. 200 blandguard walking advancing and firing would be a threat. for one that's a lot of bodies to get through even with battleshock.
If you're really going to try this, you would need 10x units. This is because you are going to be doing Graia for the Warlord trait, which is your only saving grace against another horde army. You need to basically form a big line of Dunecrawlers and multiple ranks of Vanguard stretched as long as possible within 3" of the Dunecrawler and 6" of the Dominus.
Verviedi wrote: Hmmm... how’s this look as a concept? You can plug in supporting elements as you wish.
Spoiler:
Red Tide (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [110 PL, 1418pts]
Forge World Graia
As I mentioned above, you need a Dominus to hold the Warlord trait and pimp hat. You can have 60x Vanguard for each Crawler if you march in ranks and 100x Vanguard if you march in columns, but you will need to keep in mind that not all of your guys will be shooting if you're organized in columns, and it's super vulnerable to melee; any more and your guys will fall out of the Dominus's 6" auras. Anyhow, I would actually do 120 Vanguard with 2 Crawlers; use the Enginseers for deep strike denial. With the remaining points, consider a Crusader; you have a ton of CP to spam Ion Shields with. EDIT: I misgauged how many Crawlers you need; you probably need half as many as I first suggested.
Aaranis wrote: Love how they've been considered garbage in this thread for MONTHS and now suddenly you all think they're a hidden gem :/
several pages back i tried to tell yall..... Their stats guns, and weapon load outs mimick stormtroopers from IG. only difference is they can't deepstrike... except if you go lucius or stygies, now that's how i'd run them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 21:50:50
The problem with vanguard was never their shooting, it has always been their ability to get into range and not be dead from heavy bolters before getting into that range. Against Eldar, your opponent will just play keep away all game. Space marines will stay in cover and get 2+ saves. Tyranids will be mildly concerned by the volume of fire, but will overwhelm the vanguard with genestealer's moving 14" before charging. And vanguard don't do anything but die against daemon primarchs. If you could get 60 vanguard into range of magnus, yes, you could kill him in a turn if he didn't have the FNPWLT and -1 to be hit.
EDIT: that said, I am trying to work something up for LVO that does include more dudes and less robots. I do think that STYGIES / CADIA is a counter meta list that can trade shots with gunlines and absorb charges better than most think.
Wulfey wrote: The problem with vanguard was never their shooting, it has always been their ability to get into range and not be dead from heavy bolters before getting into that range. Against Eldar, your opponent will just play keep away all game. Space marines will stay in cover and get 2+ saves. Tyranids will be mildly concerned by the volume of fire, but will overwhelm the vanguard with genestealer's moving 14" before charging. And vanguard don't do anything but die against daemon primarchs. If you could get 60 vanguard into range of magnus, yes, you could kill him in a turn if he didn't have the FNPWLT and -1 to be hit.
This. Unless we get some defensive auras or more consistent mobility, I doubt we will ever be competitive as a horde army like Orcs or Tyranids.
2017/12/11 06:03:00
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Wulfey wrote: The problem with vanguard was never their shooting, it has always been their ability to get into range and not be dead from heavy bolters before getting into that range. Against Eldar, your opponent will just play keep away all game. Space marines will stay in cover and get 2+ saves. Tyranids will be mildly concerned by the volume of fire, but will overwhelm the vanguard with genestealer's moving 14" before charging. And vanguard don't do anything but die against daemon primarchs. If you could get 60 vanguard into range of magnus, yes, you could kill him in a turn if he didn't have the FNPWLT and -1 to be hit.
This. Unless we get some defensive auras or more consistent mobility, I doubt we will ever be competitive as a horde army like Orcs or Tyranids.
If you were going to do it, it would have to be a super hokey LUCIUS brigade.
TPD + 2x1 enginseer, 3x1 Onager, 6x10 vanguard (all reserved for half your CP), 3x1 CDS, some Dragoons to screen gunline, and hopefully some CADIA spearhead for the better WLT and some artillery. EDIT: arguably you would get the deepstrike CP back on a 5+ if you put the 5+ WL on the table first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/11 06:05:12
2017/12/11 06:19:39
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Or when we get transports we could use the WAAC tactic to end all WAAC tactics. Move the transport, disembark with all the vanguard, shoot with all the vanguard, charge with all the vanguard and the transports and if they wipe out the unit consolidate back into the transport. Cheesy as hell but strong.
2017/12/11 07:00:28
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
kastelen wrote: Or when we get transports we could use the WAAC tactic to end all WAAC tactics. Move the transport, disembark with all the vanguard, shoot with all the vanguard, charge with all the vanguard and the transports and if they wipe out the unit consolidate back into the transport. Cheesy as hell but strong.
Well, you can't move the transport and then disembark in the same turn. So not that cheesy. Also, you can't embark/disembark a unit in the same turn. All that is on p183.
Also, folks.... Vanguard are still bad. Low leadership, fragile bodies on mandatory footsloggers with short-ranged guns. This is just all bad without some sort of buffing aura (Stygies is as close as we get) or transports (come on Fires!).
And here I am having just gotten 20 Vanguard and 10 secutarii hoplites (who will be more vanguard!) in a secondhand trade. Yippee!
Now, the question I have is that in their current build, these guys are geared as 2 10-man squads, one with three Arc Rifles, one with three Plasma Calivers. I've been running Lucius (corpuscarii Priests using the DS stratagem is the best proxy for my Thallax I've figured out so far) and I'm wondering if I should tear the weapons off these guys to make more Carbines, or whether I could get away with the heavy upgrades if I dropped them to ensure I get use out of the Calivers.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/12/11 13:48:19
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: I wanna play 2-3 maxed out plasma Vanguard.
Would you also throw in a TPD for rerolling 1´s or better just add more guys?
TPD, unless you want your Plasma guys to all die to bad rolls.
But for the price of a TPD I could almost get another squad. Decisions decisons....
TPD is a force multiplier though. Re-rolling ones helps immensely for all of your dudes and allows you another slim chance to roll a 6 for that sweet, sweet 2 damage.
Also, he is way easier to build and paint than a whole additional squad of Vanguard who are so immensely tedious to build and paint. My god, those robes made me want to scream. I slathered them in liquid green stuff and I still have a few dudes with some seams no matter what I did. The whole AdMech collection is an exercise in patience - fragile, fiddly, and poorly designed for building all around. /rant
TPD is a force multiplier though. Re-rolling ones helps immensely for all of your dudes and allows you another slim chance to roll a 6 for that sweet, sweet 2 damage.
Also, he is way easier to build and paint than a whole additional squad of Vanguard who are so immensely tedious to build and paint. My god, those robes made me want to scream. I slathered them in liquid green stuff and I still have a few dudes with some seams no matter what I did. The whole AdMech collection is an exercise in patience - fragile, fiddly, and poorly designed for building all around. /rant
How would kit out the TPD than?
Haha I know where you are coming from I remember the first Skitarii I tried to assemble, I instantly broke this cable thing on the robe whlile trying to cut it off the sprue.
But you have to admit the models are looking amazing ;-)
Edit: Formatting
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/11 14:09:26
2017/12/11 14:13:09
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Quick tip, use superglue for standard building, but use multiple thin coats of plastic glue for your robe seams, and file them down. Plastic glue will melt the plastic and help make the seam less awful. Liquid green stuff kinda sucks in my experience.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2017/12/11 14:24:04
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: I wanna play 2-3 maxed out plasma Vanguard.
Would you also throw in a TPD for rerolling 1´s or better just add more guys?
TPD, unless you want your Plasma guys to all die to bad rolls.
But for the price of a TPD I could almost get another squad. Decisions decisons....
TPD is a force multiplier though. Re-rolling ones helps immensely for all of your dudes and allows you another slim chance to roll a 6 for that sweet, sweet 2 damage.
Also, he is way easier to build and paint than a whole additional squad of Vanguard who are so immensely tedious to build and paint. My god, those robes made me want to scream. I slathered them in liquid green stuff and I still have a few dudes with some seams no matter what I did. The whole AdMech collection is an exercise in patience - fragile, fiddly, and poorly designed for building all around. /rant
Oh man, if you ever want to make your eye twitch you should ask me for the photos I took of the secondhand guys I just got. Every single guy had a horrible gap in their midsection because they didn't properly pair the legs with the cloak and huge cloak gaps. I wasn't too annoyed because monetarily I traded way up (I traded a necron battleforce that I had purchased at a garage sale for 10$) but great googly moogly were they in horrible shape. The Dragoon was my favorite - the rider was incorrectly posed so that he was sitting back and he had the pistol bit plus the taser goad from the Vanguard box in his other hand, so he looked like a character in a video game who had glitched out and reverted to the basic "legs straight arms straight out" pose.
I had to completely render them down to bits and re-assemble.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/12/11 14:33:55
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Verviedi wrote:Quick tip, use superglue for standard building, but use multiple thin coats of plastic glue for your robe seams, and file them down. Plastic glue will melt the plastic and help make the seam less awful. Liquid green stuff kinda sucks in my experience.
I never use plastic glue. Ever. I have had to reposition stuff far too many times and that stuff bonds for life. LGS works fine for me, provided I am not on my last nerve and ready to trash my army (so... about 10 Skitarii or one Dragoon into my project).
If you look here, you can see that my seams are gone. It just took a few layers and patience. LGS and Tamiya putty are lifesavers.
the_scotsman wrote:
Oh man, if you ever want to make your eye twitch you should ask me for the photos I took of the secondhand guys I just got. Every single guy had a horrible gap in their midsection because they didn't properly pair the legs with the cloak and huge cloak gaps. I wasn't too annoyed because monetarily I traded way up (I traded a necron battleforce that I had purchased at a garage sale for 10$) but great googly moogly were they in horrible shape. The Dragoon was my favorite - the rider was incorrectly posed so that he was sitting back and he had the pistol bit plus the taser goad from the Vanguard box in his other hand, so he looked like a character in a video game who had glitched out and reverted to the basic "legs straight arms straight out" pose.
I had to completely render them down to bits and re-assemble.
So if I did want to build an army around Kataphron Servitors, is Agrippina the best forge world without question? I feel like I'd run out of CPs very very soon.
2017/12/11 14:49:35
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Or Stygies and lucius. DS and infiltrating them so you avoid Alpha Strike is half success and they bring nice defensive stats with ignore ap1 and -1 to hit.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Standing in the light, I see only darkness. 
Also, you can't embark/disembark a unit in the same turn. All that is on p183.
