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Ah thanks, that's logical when you say it. I've never done statistics or averages at this level to be honest.

I am going to Kastle Konflict 01 tomorrow in Mountain View. It will be a strict LVO prep with full blown ITC beta rules. 2000 points as usual. I am set on my first two detachments (plus or minus some gun/mortar upgrades to round out points). But I can't decide between these last two choices.



In 2017, when I had Celestine, I went 2-1. When I didn't bring her, I went 1-2. The consistency was scary.

EDIT: thanks yoda. Yeah, I could see shaving off ~120 points of shooting unit and putting in 30 more guardsmen. Celestine isn't much a screen, but she is so flexible at getting across the board and tying up a key shooting unit. I am considering a second guard battallion as a strict body herd. Just more bodies. Alright, based on Yodas suggestions. I need to speed paint this and get it ready. I am going to run this:

I would try to make the list with one less basilisk maybe one less robot and make the stygies an outrider. The list is v v good but...

Celestine speed and ability to move respawn etc needs to be consistent. While you still need screener for so many Robots and Onagers. The extra 2*1 balistarii or Dragoons will always screen and help as fast to cover Celestine jumping. While if you take them lasc balistarii you can switch one neutron for icarus and get a more complete list.

I play the exact same list found that I was either using Dragoons as screen and it is effective but I won't have any offensive. Or turn the list as I explained. If I send Dragoons to the offnsive and they are good I loose easy and get my robots locked vs alpha chargers etc. So 2*1 and making an outrider seems valid for me.

Simply put i would love 10 basilisks but I don't need to invest 324 more points after Robots and Onagers. 2 are enough and I believe for tour lists ad mech units are more durable and more efficient shooting. Basilisks are there for some los shooting not better shooting. And the lists definitely needs more bodies to screen than 30 troops. I can then even decide to get Dragoons for defence vs extreme chargers but still get my balistarii roaming. You get the picture. Enjoy

Tip even if you keep your lost building I d still remove one basilisk and get 1*6 Dragoons. You need to make it work 100% .there is no point to have that setup. Don't need so much extreme measures. Cause you LL go second almost every game. Make them 1*5 and icarus you LL get 60 points for 10 more or troops. Or even a datasmith for mobility.

 Aaranis wrote:
Ah thanks, that's logical when you say it. I've never done statistics or averages at this level to be honest.

yup 3.5 is the average on D6, D6 minimum 3 is 4.... 3.5.... 4..... that rule really doesn't do much in reality. sadly

Adeptus Custodes are getting their own Codex. If they are sturdy enough, maybe we have a new candidate for screen.

Suzuteo wrote:
Adeptus Custodes are getting their own Codex. If they are sturdy enough, maybe we have a new candidate for screen.

I ran 1000pts of dragoons and onagers and a couple of robots with a pairing of 1000 pts of custodes, SoS and a lascannon decked land raider against 2k of balanced guard and we wiped the floor with them. Only the SoS, my dragoons and the land raider went down with a single custodes model left. All our ranged gun line was untouched, the land raider was a delivery mechanism for a squad of custodes.

I must admit i could stomach pairing custodes with admech more than pithy guard or cringy dull-marines. At least they have some character.

That does sound fun.

Hey, so I am returning to my Ad Mech after a bit of a break, and haven’t seen many Knights in lists. Have they fallen out of favor? If anyone has a list to share I would love to see it.

KampfKrote wrote:
Hey, so I am returning to my Ad Mech after a bit of a break, and haven’t seen many Knights in lists. Have they fallen out of favor? If anyone has a list to share I would love to see it.

Ever since the context, keeping a lone Knights has fallen out of favor because they didn't get integrated into the army as a whole.

However, we have discussed the possibility of an all-Knight army before. Thanks to Enginseers getting -5 points, we can actually do this now:


Otherwise, competitive lists have these characteristics:
Cawl
4-6x Kastelans (Kills everything)
1-3x Neutron Crawlers (Reliable anti-tank)
0-2x Icarus Crawlers (Daemon Primarchs and Eldar are FotM)
4-6x Dragoons (CDI stratagem allows them to wreck one vehicle per turn)
Company Commander with 5+/5+ CP recycling Relic and Warlord Trait (AdMech is very CP hungry, but struggles to form a Brigade)
2-3x Basilisk (Being able to hit anything without LOS is key)

Here's mine:

Solid list. Mine is basically identical but one commander becomes a Primaris psyker, 1 or 2 less robots, no dragoons, and a bunch of Elysians plus Harker to buff the basilisks.

 ph34r wrote:
Solid list. Mine is basically identical but one commander becomes a Primaris psyker, 1 or 2 less robots, no dragoons, and a bunch of Elysians plus Harker to buff the basilisks.

Just make your Guard Cadian, then you have auto reroll 1 on your Basilisks. Plus you can take the Cadian Relic if playing against chaos.


What's the math on Stygies vs Graia for buffing defense on mass Skitarii?

 lash92 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Solid list. Mine is basically identical but one commander becomes a Primaris psyker, 1 or 2 less robots, no dragoons, and a bunch of Elysians plus Harker to buff the basilisks.

Just make your Guard Cadian, then you have auto reroll 1 on your Basilisks. Plus you can take the Cadian Relic if playing against chaos.


What's the math on Stygies vs Graia for buffing defense on mass Skitarii?

Yeah. I would recommend this as well, since Earthshakers get the Catachan buff for free anyway. Also, that anti-Chaos relic is insanely good.

And you want Graia for the Warlord trait. Vanguard shooting at point blank with the -1T is very useful. It also makes you viable against other horde armies like Orks or Tyranids. (Not having Chainswords or Choppas sucks.)

I'm not quite sure if I should make the Graia my Warlord or just add a Guard battalion for the 5+/5+ CP gain and to let those Guardsman eat the first charges.

I have had great success running Graia in support of my superheavy tanks lately.

How is your list looking, If i might ask?

I assumed against an opponent which would make Graia more feasible over Stygies, there usually wouldn't be any Vanguard around after a round of melee to take advantage of the point blank firing...

 lash92 wrote:
I'm not quite sure if I should make the Graia my Warlord or just add a Guard battalion for the 5+/5+ CP gain and to let those Guardsman eat the first charges.

I am assuming by mass Skitarii, you mean an army with 600+ points of Vanguard in two Battalions and a Spearhead in support. You should have plenty of CP for such an army.

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I assumed against an opponent which would make Graia more feasible over Stygies, there usually wouldn't be any Vanguard around after a round of melee to take advantage of the point blank firing...

Usually, you wouldn't have much a say in the matter. But when it's a horde vs. horde grinder, there are often many damaged units left over.

Here's a scenario: You're up against Green Tide. You shoot the front unit of Boyz. They charge into your front unit of Vanguard with pistols and choppas. Because they were weakened by the shooting, you might have one or two Skitarii left over, which can shoot into them; you don't want to fall back because you want those last Skitarii to act as a speed bump so your guys can keep shooting at other Ork units, continuing to weaken them. Remember, they still only get one charge, so if you space your lines 3" apart, those Boyz will not be able to pile into your next line.

Suzuteo wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
I'm not quite sure if I should make the Graia my Warlord or just add a Guard battalion for the 5+/5+ CP gain and to let those Guardsman eat the first charges.

I am assuming by mass Skitarii, you mean an army with 600+ points of Vanguard in two Battalions and a Spearhead in support. You should have plenty of CP for such an army.

Yeah I mean an army with that many Vanguard. Maybe not with that detachments, cause I want some Guards for non los shooting. I just love the extra CPs you get, but maybe it´s not really worth if you have already 10.

How many Crawlers do you plan on bringing? You want that Broad Spectrum Data-tether Leadership bonus.

2 Neutron, 1 Icarus. Also I´m planing to make 10 man squads with the Enhanced Data-tether.

I could even take an Inquisitor, maybe Greyfax for LD10 and some deny the witch.


EDIT: Whats everyones experience with the Arc Rifle?

Suzuteo wrote:
How many Crawlers do you plan on bringing? You want that Broad Spectrum Data-tether Leadership bonus.

Could take dragoons instead for cheaper if the data tether is all you’re after and you want the points to spend elsewhere.

 lash92 wrote:
2 Neutron, 1 Icarus. Also I´m planing to make 10 man squads with the Enhanced Data-tether.

I could even take an Inquisitor, maybe Greyfax for LD10 and some deny the witch.

EDIT: Whats everyones experience with the Arc Rifle?

If you do Graia, all your models can sort of deny the witch.

Arc Rifles are not as efficient as Radium Carbines now that the Vanguard costs 8.

Octovol wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
How many Crawlers do you plan on bringing? You want that Broad Spectrum Data-tether Leadership bonus.

Could take dragoons instead for cheaper if the data tether is all you’re after and you want the points to spend elsewhere.

Right, you could do Ballistarii, but Crawlers are much more durable and have better guns.

Battle report from Kastle Conflict 01.

I ran the following list, which everyone regarded as competitive:



I went 3-2 and placed 6 of 25, but could have won the games i lost if i understood my opponent's lists better.

Game 1:
Played Geoff Robinson. I thought his Tyranid list was melee, it was actually artillery. I put my bots in the back line when I should have had them up front. Big blunder. Ended up going to end of turn 6, 23-29. This should have been a pretty easy win if my robots were on the front deployment edge like they should have been.

Game 2:
Played generic death guard list. Got first turn, tabled him on turn 6.

Game 3:
Played tanks and scions. Got first turn, got him down to 1 model left at bottom of turn 6.

Game 4:
Played 9 commander tau list. I didn't understand that stealth suits could 'scout' onto my deployment edge. He seized initiative and was able to tag every vehicle in combat. If I could play this guy again, I would have beaten him easily with better bubble wrap. I misread how to handle his list badly.

Game 5:
Played scions, air guard vehicles, and scion car list. Got him down to 1 model left because celestine wiffed on yarick bad. Ended turn 6. Won 31-28 because I couldn't contorl the board or deal with his 6 deepstrike characters that get bonus points in ITC if they are on objectives. Super hard matchup ITC wise, but he only had 1 model because i had to rush that last turn.

Overall, running ~56 guard bodies really works. The screen collapses in one turn, but the return fire from my robots demolishes things. 3 neutrons, 3 basilisks, 4 robots is a really good balance of firepower that threatens everything. Celestine ... I misplayed her a few times but she is the key to winning hard games.

Wulfey wrote:
Game 1:
Played Geoff Robinson. I thought his Tyranid list was melee, it was actually artillery. I put my bots in the back line when I should have had them up front. Big blunder. Ended up going to end of turn 6, 23-29. This should have been a pretty easy win if my robots were on the front deployment edge like they should have been.

Ouch...

Wulfey wrote:
Game 4:
Played 9 commander tau list. I didn't understand that stealth suits could 'scout' onto my deployment edge. He seized initiative and was able to tag every vehicle in combat. If I could play this guy again, I would have beaten him easily with better bubble wrap. I misread how to handle his list badly.

Always, always, always castle up against Tau. If you don't, they will wrap you up, and you will lose.

Wulfey wrote:
Game 5:
Played scions, air guard vehicles, and scion car list. Got him down to 1 model left because celestine wiffed on yarick bad. Ended turn 6. Won 31-28 because I couldn't contorl the board or deal with his 6 deepstrike characters that get bonus points in ITC if they are on objectives. Super hard matchup ITC wise, but he only had 1 model because i had to rush that last turn.

Wait, do you mean to say that you lost this one?

Wulfey wrote:
Overall, running ~56 guard bodies really works. The screen collapses in one turn, but the return fire from my robots demolishes things. 3 neutrons, 3 basilisks, 4 robots is a really good balance of firepower that threatens everything. Celestine ... I misplayed her a few times but she is the key to winning hard games.

I still think that 56 is too many bodies. But then again, I don't play Celestine and can't speak from experience on this point.

Surprised you didn't run into any Ynnari/Eldar though.

I won game 5. barely. It shouldn't have been close. I was blowing him off the table but yarrick made a string of lucky 3++ and he slow played to try and stop my 6th turn. I forced it and won.

I figured Tau was like a 'deep strike' army that want space to drop. But it really more of a point blank army and the castle needs to be body to body. In the future. company commanders should be the bubble wrap for the robots. SO I can heroic inervention to stop the blockers.

I could have taken geoff's list pretty easily if I read it and understood it. I beat his artillery shot for shot with my artillerty without the robots even firing.

Wulfey wrote:
I figured Tau was like a 'deep strike' army that want space to drop. But it really more of a point blank army and the castle needs to be body to body. In the future. company commanders should be the bubble wrap for the robots. SO I can heroic inervention to stop the blockers.

Yeah. I think I have brought this up before, but you need to deny Tau space to stand next to your Kastelans. A literall Cawl Wall.

Note that Heroic Intervention only works AFTER the charges. Also, that all of the Tau Commanders can also get that free pile-in on your turn even if you don't charge, so keep it tight.

Wulfey wrote:
I could have taken geoff's list pretty easily if I read it and understood it. I beat his artillery shot for shot with my artillerty without the robots even firing.

I am surprised that Tyranids would play artillery though. They have such great assault options now, and there are so many better artillery armies...

Wulfey switch one commander for a phycher. could help.

take one battalion 2 basilisk only 2 extra 10 mans with mortars so remove one more 10 man gard and take 1x3 dragoon or 4 worth it.

keep them screener or advance as you said you most likely advane those 2 groups so remove them and take draggons will help you a lot teaming up with Celestine when need.

 lash92 wrote:
How is your list looking, If i might ask?

Mine?

3 superheavy tanks

1bn of guard

1bn of Graia admech.

Since pretty much every Eldar player has got like 35 Dark Reapers at least Id like to know what we can do against them, especially against a 10 man unit of ynari with interceptor stratagem. Looking for some AdMech possibilities, not Guard because I know there are Basilisks and Mortars but those are just not good anymore. Maybe versus the ynari ones but hitting against Aleatoc is just a pain in the ass and not worth it...

Iago40k wrote:
Since pretty much every Eldar player has got like 35 Dark Reapers at least Id like to know what we can do against them, especially against a 10 man unit of ynari with interceptor stratagem. Looking for some AdMech possibilities, not Guard because I know there are Basilisks and Mortars but those are just not good anymore. Maybe versus the ynari ones but hitting against Aleatoc is just a pain in the ass and not worth it...

Shoot them with Robots. They are T3, so you are wounding on 2's and reducing them to a 5+ save. With Cawl, you can really cut them down - even Alaitoc.

And what does the interceptor matter? Do we even use anything that deep strikes anymore?