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2018/04/01 21:54:14
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Well admech is a fairly small codex honestly, there's not really a ton of options like something in the lines of Imperial Guard or space Marines. Heck there are several slots where we have what, 2 options? That doesn't give a lot of room for flexibility or different tactics
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/04/01 22:01:46
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
LexOdin9 wrote: I think the lack of real discussion at this point really tells the truth about where we're at right now.
By real discussion I mean the admech codex has been mostly figured out, there's very little flexibility in what we can run overall. Something doesn't feel right.
Played a game against Tau recently. They are more mobile and do shooting better than we do, and the sept I fought against punished so incredibly hard against melee that things went very poorly that game.
Dragoons couldn't get into CC (overwatch would annihilate them), couldn't hit the Ghostkeels due to a -3 to hit, drones took all anti-tank rounds from my neutronagers that were directed towards riptide/broadsides, drones were just barely out of range of the rest of my shooting.
Was able to take out the drones on turn 2 but by then enough damage had been done.
Glad to see I'm not the only one traumatised by the Tau, but sad to see we're always traumatised by Tau. I hate these Drones and I'm glad they at least got a price hike. Nothing more frustrating than wasting Neutron Laser shots because there's no other targets.
I wonder if the FAQ will change anything related to us, and especially to Soups. I'm just waiting for the Drukhari codex at this point, it is at least designed with some love, compared to ours :(
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2018/04/01 22:18:53
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I also feel a little burned out tbh. I'm just looking really hard for a working army concept, but I struggle to come up with something besides Cawl + Bots. Do we hinder ourselves by limiting us to the Cawlstar or is there really nothing else which is remotely usable as a concept?!
2018/04/01 22:35:06
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Depends on your meta, if it's not net lists you have to think a little before picking anything in your lists because of all the handicaps we have. If there's no SM armies in your LGS you'll never need to go power swords on the Infiltrators for example. I recommend trying an Imperial Bastion with 20 Fulgurites, just exit when something gets too close, charge and behold the mayhem. I don't believe anything can survive this. Then your opponent is stuck with 20 3++ 5+++ murdermachines for the rest of the game. I only tried 10 Fulgurites but I'd love to try double that, they were a nightmare for 6 rounds after killing a Daemon Prince.
Dragoons are always fun too, with the Infiltration from Stygies they can be really nasty. Infiltrating 20 Fulgurites should be doable too, just hope really hard the opponent doesn't seize initiative on a 6, otherwise if you don't get first turn you just deploy them somewhere safer or dare rolling a 6.
I'm going to run my Admech with a little Dark Angels detachment in my next games, made of a Captain with jet pack, combi-melta and Thunder Hammer, 3 bolter Inceptors, and 2x3 Ravenwing bikes. Still have to write the list though, but it'll help me with mobility while still packing a punch.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2018/04/02 09:04:12
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
LexOdin9 wrote: I think the lack of real discussion at this point really tells the truth about where we're at right now.
By real discussion I mean the admech codex has been mostly figured out, there's very little flexibility in what we can run overall. Something doesn't feel right.
Played a game against Tau recently. They are more mobile and do shooting better than we do, and the sept I fought against punished so incredibly hard against melee that things went very poorly that game.
Dragoons couldn't get into CC (overwatch would annihilate them), couldn't hit the Ghostkeels due to a -3 to hit, drones took all anti-tank rounds from my neutronagers that were directed towards riptide/broadsides, drones were just barely out of range of the rest of my shooting.
Was able to take out the drones on turn 2 but by then enough damage had been done.
Yeah, I'd also be real distraught I my opponent was cheating and gave the Ghostkeels an additional -1 to hit. No but seriously, how would they get to -3? The suit itself is -1 and the drones are -1 and those two things stack but the drones don't give more than -1 if there's more than one of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 09:15:36
2018/04/02 13:31:42
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
So I tried out running shield captains, scouts, and greyfax as support for my MARS gunline. I was practicing against my buddy who ran 3x stormsurges, 1x fusion coldstar, and 1x yvara. The problem I ran in to was that shield captains are not that fast at 14" and can't do celestine's 24" threat bubble. Greyfax enabled me to get 1 good charge off by shutting down the overwatch of something, but that wasn't nearly enough. Also, my 5 dakkabot volley hitting on 5s rerolling because i had to move was not enough to kill a stormsurge. And icarus ... I just don't get it. I ran 2 of them. They couldn't wound the stormsurges. My mortars got more wounds. I would run icarus more if that big missle of their ever actually did some wounds. By turn 3 my army was tabled.
The big conclusion is that I should be focusing on either shooting, xor melee. And that greyfax / shield captains can't do celestine's job of doing an impossible charge from 24" away. I am going to go with something like this at my RT in two weeks.
CADIA spearhead 1x Commander, 1x basilisk, 4x mortar teams
My impression with Icarus is that they are there to cover the weaknesses of things like neutron lasers and leman russe's. Whenever I run admech it's as an ally to IG and so the admech bs3 Icarus is what I need more than anything, especially against hard counters like eldar, alpha legion, and Raven guard fliers. I wouldn't ever run purely Icarus, I always felt they were there to cover a weakness, not be a mainstay weapon. I'm still figuring out the ratio I like but it's at least 25% of my "heavy hitter" units if that makes sense.
So many competitive units these days have the fly keyword so they'll usually pull their weight, and even in a scenario with no fliers they normally hit on 4's which isn't too terrible. Mixed with dakkastellans, neutron lasers, leman russe's, and other units I'd where I feel they shine. It also sounds like you were a bit unlucky if you were finding your mortars more consistent than autocannons and Icarus missles.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/04/02 23:07:58
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
LexOdin9 wrote: I think the lack of real discussion at this point really tells the truth about where we're at right now.
By real discussion I mean the admech codex has been mostly figured out, there's very little flexibility in what we can run overall. Something doesn't feel right.
Played a game against Tau recently. They are more mobile and do shooting better than we do, and the sept I fought against punished so incredibly hard against melee that things went very poorly that game.
Dragoons couldn't get into CC (overwatch would annihilate them), couldn't hit the Ghostkeels due to a -3 to hit, drones took all anti-tank rounds from my neutronagers that were directed towards riptide/broadsides, drones were just barely out of range of the rest of my shooting.
Was able to take out the drones on turn 2 but by then enough damage had been done.
I think a lot of us are waiting for the FAQ to drop.
Tau don't do shooting better than we do, but they definitely got way better force multipliers now that they have a codex. I mean, our codex honestly does not feel that different than our index, given how crappy our relics are. And I feel like a broken record, but Icarus Icarus Icarus. I don't bother with Neutron any more. Basilisks, Dragoons, and Dakkabots can all fill the anti-tank role. (Though if I can be frank, after much thought, I am not even sure if I can justify having Crawlers at all when I can squeeze another 2 Dragoons and a Kastelan in.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/02 23:29:22
2018/04/03 07:17:05
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: If the stupid rocket only could be S8 ...
Yes. This drives me crazy. It takes a 4 to wound all the decent targets for that kind of high quality firepower ... but we have no way to improve wound rolls.
2018/04/03 17:22:59
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I think the reality here is that GW never planned to make this a full army range. We were always meant to just be "allies". And that is where we are at, really. If you run pure Codex AdMech, enjoy getting wrecked by most of the more "modern" Codices.
I'm currently planning a jump to Xenos. Probably 'Crons - that way I get at least some killer robot action on the table. But even then, I am not sure. But AdMech has been packed in foam and put in my closet. On the off chance I want a "fun" game, maybe.
If the FAQ at all addresses our issues, I will be pleasantly surprised.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: I think the reality here is that GW never planned to make this a full army range. We were always meant to just be "allies". And that is where we are at, really. If you run pure Codex AdMech, enjoy getting wrecked by most of the more "modern" Codices.
I'm currently planning a jump to Xenos. Probably 'Crons - that way I get at least some killer robot action on the table. But even then, I am not sure. But AdMech has been packed in foam and put in my closet. On the off chance I want a "fun" game, maybe.
If the FAQ at all addresses our issues, I will be pleasantly surprised.
Well, if that was their goal in the design, then they succeeded. My armies always have Imperial Guardsmen, Basilisks, and Scout Marines.
HERETIC! (Actually, not sure if you'll find much better in Necrons.)
2018/04/03 18:02:11
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
em_en_oh_pee wrote: I think the reality here is that GW never planned to make this a full army range. We were always meant to just be "allies". And that is where we are at, really. If you run pure Codex AdMech, enjoy getting wrecked by most of the more "modern" Codices.
Disagree. We were never planned to be a single army. We were likely concepted around the idea of Skitarii and Cult being separate, but they went back on that. That, in my opinion, is why the book feels so...blah. So haphazard. It's like they knew they needed to do all of that stuff ASAP but they didn't want to put the effort into it since they knew they'd go back later and revise them significantly.
I'm currently planning a jump to Xenos. Probably 'Crons - that way I get at least some killer robot action on the table. But even then, I am not sure. But AdMech has been packed in foam and put in my closet. On the off chance I want a "fun" game, maybe.
If the FAQ at all addresses our issues, I will be pleasantly surprised.
I'm sorry that you feel this way and even if you or I don't agree over whether or not Skitarii and Cult should be separate factions, it's always a shame to see someone put away an army they were enthusiastic over.
At least Necrons look to be pretty dang nice right now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/03 18:03:12
2018/04/03 18:05:25
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
rvd1ofakind wrote: Yeah Reece kind of put the FAQ down as "probably very little point changes"
We don't need point changes. We need mobility. A lot more of it.
We also need people like Reece to not be involved with any way, shape, or form of how the game is 'meant to be played'.
We really could see a big, significant fix with regards to mobility if Skitarii keyworded models got given back their ability to make a move immediately after Deployment.
2018/04/03 18:10:21
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
rvd1ofakind wrote: Yeah Reece kind of put the FAQ down as "probably very little point changes"
We don't need point changes. We need mobility. A lot more of it.
We also need people like Reece to not be involved with any way, shape, or form of how the game is 'meant to be played'.
We really could see a big, significant fix with regards to mobility if Skitarii keyworded models got given back their ability to make a move immediately after Deployment.
Yeah heaven forbid his armies do badly. Hey though, at least he doesn't design missions to his preferred play style, right?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/04/03 18:24:54
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
rvd1ofakind wrote: Yeah Reece kind of put the FAQ down as "probably very little point changes"
We don't need point changes. We need mobility. A lot more of it.
It still blows my mind that the faction that makes vehicles for the entire imperium has probably the least vehicles out of any codex in the Imperium, and can't even take the vehicles they churn out by the millions for other armies.
Even weirder still, they insist that a lot of the Skitarii walk everywhere. Why on Earth is the most industrialized faction WALKING TO BATTLE? At the very least they should've been given an option like Inquisition got where they can hitch a ride in other vehicles. Granted admech stealing soace marine drop pods was really fething stupid, you can't tell me they wouldn't use something like a rhino, land raider, or chimera.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/04/03 21:43:26
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
rvd1ofakind wrote: Yeah Reece kind of put the FAQ down as "probably very little point changes"
We don't need point changes. We need mobility. A lot more of it.
It still blows my mind that the faction that makes vehicles for the entire imperium has probably the least vehicles out of any codex in the Imperium, and can't even take the vehicles they churn out by the millions for other armies.
Even weirder still, they insist that a lot of the Skitarii walk everywhere. Why on Earth is the most industrialized faction WALKING TO BATTLE? At the very least they should've been given an option like Inquisition got where they can hitch a ride in other vehicles. Granted admech stealing soace marine drop pods was really fething stupid, you can't tell me they wouldn't use something like a rhino, land raider, or chimera.
It's less "they insist on it" with regards to the Skitarii; it's just the way it is...but yeah.
I would have liked it to be a Martian "trait" for them(No access to transports but they get to move an extra 3" or something like that for the Skitarii Rangers/Vanguard) or for them to steal a page from Infinity's old rules and give the Onagers a 'carry-all' rule where up to 5 Rangers and Vanguard can grab on and ride into battle with them.
2018/04/04 02:03:23
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Things I've learned this game:
- If you can keep the enemy from shooting at your electropriests via LOS-blocking terrain until you're ready to charge in, their effectiveness is off the charts. Especially if they have a Graia save on top of their 3++ 5+++.
- Celestine isn't dependable as a source of damage, but she is EXCELLENT at locking up shooting units (so long as they can't just disengage and shoot COUGH COUGH TAU).
- Onagers never make their points back, no matter what loadout I give them (except for the cognis hvy stubber, which always makes its points back turn 1)
- Always try to keep 2-4 cp available for emergencies. If I had kept 2 at the ready, I could have avoided losing 6 electro-priests to morale and this would have basically won me the game.
- Splitting the dakkabots seems really good when you're not running Mars. The dakkabots vastly outperform the neutronagers in point efficiency against their respective intended targets.
- Monitor Malevolus is so incredibly finnicky, like extreme bipolar disorder it'll get me 3CP one turn and then nothing for 4 more turns.
- Sometimes it will take 4 turns for your arquebus rangers to finally get a character kill, even against measly guardsmen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 02:04:49
2018/04/04 02:53:22
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: So if you really wanted to take a knight, what would your choice be? I'm thinking about a Crusader or Cerastus Archon...
I would consider the Knight Styrix. It has a 4++ in shooting that goes up to a 3++ with the stratagem. Very tanky. It shoots ok and can still threaten in close combat where it can get a 4++ with the stratagem.
2018/04/04 07:10:02
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: So if you really wanted to take a knight, what would your choice be? I'm thinking about a Crusader or Cerastus Archon...
I like the cheapest Crusader option. You want the 36" double shootiness, but you don't want to commit any more points into it than you need to or else you're going to get blown out by a good alpha strike.
2018/04/04 07:23:12
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: So if you really wanted to take a knight, what would your choice be? I'm thinking about a Crusader or Cerastus Archon...
I'd probably hold off for a while with both the Imperial Knight codex and the new Castellan coming out soon. I have a suspicion that neither will make them competitve but seeing as we most likely get that codex within a month the prudent course of action would be to wait
2018/04/04 08:11:25
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Actually, I think Knights will always be competitive in a narrow band. This is because their army's strategy is mostly dominant and non-interactive.
Anyhow, assuming the new codex is good, I wonder if we would eventually want to try to integrate a Knight into our armies. In the spirit of innovation, I tried to remake my old Index list:
Spoiler:
Imperium Battalion Detachment - 242
HQ - 77 1x Company Commander - Laspistol, Chainsword, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Suzuteo wrote: Actually, I think Knights will always be competitive in a narrow band. This is because their army's strategy is mostly dominant and non-interactive.
Anyhow, assuming the new codex is good, I wonder if we would eventually want to try to integrate a Knight into our armies. In the spirit of innovation, I tried to remake my old Index list:
Spoiler:
Imperium Battalion Detachment - 242
HQ - 77 1x Company Commander - Laspistol, Chainsword, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
Lord of War - 512 Knight Crusader - Titanic Feet, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Thermal Cannon, Heavy Stubber
Total: 1998 points 7 Command Points
So one Enginseer for the repair. A strong mechanized melee component and a decent 48" scoot-and-shoot component.
EDIT: Actually, might have gone overboard with the Crawlers. Haha.
Something like that could work, but it seems a bit light on anti-horde in my opinion. Switching out 2 onagers for 2 kastelans (and maybe another dragoon or some chaff) would benefit that list I think.
2018/04/04 11:17:28
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Things I've learned this game:
- If you can keep the enemy from shooting at your electropriests via LOS-blocking terrain until you're ready to charge in, their effectiveness is off the charts. Especially if they have a Graia save on top of their 3++ 5+++.
- Celestine isn't dependable as a source of damage, but she is EXCELLENT at locking up shooting units (so long as they can't just disengage and shoot COUGH COUGH TAU).
- Onagers never make their points back, no matter what loadout I give them (except for the cognis hvy stubber, which always makes its points back turn 1)
- Always try to keep 2-4 cp available for emergencies. If I had kept 2 at the ready, I could have avoided losing 6 electro-priests to morale and this would have basically won me the game.
- Splitting the dakkabots seems really good when you're not running Mars. The dakkabots vastly outperform the neutronagers in point efficiency against their respective intended targets.
- Monitor Malevolus is so incredibly finnicky, like extreme bipolar disorder it'll get me 3CP one turn and then nothing for 4 more turns.
- Sometimes it will take 4 turns for your arquebus rangers to finally get a character kill, even against measly guardsmen.
Fulgurite Electro-Priests are pure bonkers, the day we have a transport to at least fit 10 inside we'll probably climb a few places in the tier-ranking of codices. I've done the maths on their average damage output and they're of of the best if I remember well. Just having them kill something important is the trick. Even against screens they're not really stuck, on the charge it's 1d6 for each model in the squad and 6s give a mortal wound, and then they swing their staffs of doom and the screen just evaporates.
The Eradicator Onager is not very good, it's too versatile. It may be good against elite infantry/monsters at long/mid range but your Kastelan Robots are here just for that. And to use the discount Neutron Laser at 12" you have to be at 12", which is generally the distance you DON'T want to be in. Neutronagers are still my favourites, I'll never forget the time it killed an Exocrine in one shot. Or the 12 wounds that Baneblade suffered. Sometimes they fail to hurt something but it's not the fault of the model, it's your dice after all. Half the time I used Wrath of Mars on my Robots they rolled a grand total of five 6s to Wound max, so, so much for luck, eh.
