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Suzuteo wrote:
Are the shoulder guards separate?

While we're talking about guns, has anyone figured out what to do with the spare weapons in the Skitarii kits? You know, the ones without any hands holding them?

Yup, separate shoulder pads. There are a few options.

So whose running what houses when the new knights book comes out?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So whose running what houses when the new knights book comes out?

I am painting some up as House Raven, because I have a Metalica force. Fits the fluff and looks badass with the red, black and triple-color chevrons.

Rules wise, I will do what I already do - pick the best one and count-as. Though I don't have a whole lot of use for them overall - so unless they get a major price drop, they won't happen anytime soon. Got to focus on my 30k Knights.

I’m hoping we get characters

I have one House Taranis Crusader but I imagine I would use the house rules that I enjoyed the most. My future knights will be painted in the common Phobos green-grey.

Everything in my army is VMC Deep Sky Blue and Sky Blue. Haha. Guess I will pick the House of my choice.

Kastle Conflict battle report for following list:

MARS - Cawl, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutronager
SOUP - Celestine/Gem, Commander, 3x5 scouts
CADIA - Commander, 1x3 baslisks, 4x3 mortars

I went 3-0 and took second.

Opponent 1: Custodes + Greyfax. He had me go first and played to deny me secondaries. First turn only my non-LOS models shot. Which is all the more reason to keep bringing baslisks. Eventually my firepower and some pile in mistakes resulted him going into a tabling at end of round 4. He concedes end of round 4 and this results in me winning 19-11, which is actually bad. I should have forced him into last 2 rounds and cleaned him off the board to get another 6-8 points. He had run this list 31 times. He had 1x3 bikers, 3x troops, 2x biker captains, some allarus. I was surprised at how lousy custodes are in a tournament. He underestimated my scout screen and didn't actually hit my lines until turn 3, then overkilled the robots and I pulled 4 of them out of combat through attrition.

Opponent 2: nice guy, had 75 genestealers and 3x tervigons. He got first turn, but I had spread my scouts and mortars everywhere to prevent any useful deepstrike. He ends up deepstrike at his deployment edge. He eats my screen. But my dakkabots and artillery grind down his list until only the flyrant remains. We spend 2 rounds until I lock him in base wiht Cawl and let him kill the robots out of combat. I then fall back and he concedes granting me a 27-13 win.

Opponent 3: also a cool guy. He had 6x3 obliterators, a 20 man plaguebearer bomb. 2x3 nurglings. like 30 cultists, and then some weird nurgle characters. I had advantage to go first and he failed to sezie on me. Since I got first, I was able to advance my mortars and push my scouts up so that he would be a solid 42" from my robots with his obliterator drop bomb. He killed 10 scouts and 8 of my mortar teams in his response but didn't drop any vehicles or robots. I then shot his slow as hell oblits to pieces and used my incidental bolter fire to erase his plague bomb. Celestine then flew over and kill the last 2 oblits and his WL. This was a 31-13 win.

I end up getting second because the other 3-0 guy went 35/34/36 whereas I went 19/27/31. Unit takeaways

SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT SCOUTTTTTS SCOUTS MAKE THEM NOW STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND GET SCOUTS

All 3 games I only won because of the scouts. First guy I delayed his charge until turn 3, which was a death sentence. Second guy would have tabled me in a single turn if he could deploy on my deployment edge, but instead I took him apart piecemeal and erased 40 genestealers a turn solely because the scouts pushed him back another 20". Third guy it was only a game because i have scouts. I specifically ran scouts because obliterator bombs exist. That i went first and had scouts meant I was almost certainly going to win over time. Had I gone second, I would have only had even a passable chance because the scouts could shield my robots. I know some people here are not down with Soup, but uh .... if you want to win ... it can be done.

It's not so much soup in and of itself as it is something like a battalion that is just an IG company commander and scouts. Aside from the fluff implications, it's "wrong" from an army standpoint, and therefore GW probably is going to do something to address it. I'd be leery of building scouts solely for your style of list at this point because I sincerely think that as it gets more play time and exposure it will inch higher and higher up GW's Nerf list.

For example if Admech was running a basic space Marines patrol detachment with some scouts that's one thing. That's an army that "makes sense". The moment it's a detachment of scouts led by a random IG commander who for some reason is commanding an admech detachment with Cawl and/or Celestine within spitting distance, that's a problem as far as GW is likely concerned, and I would expect to see it addressed.

It is absolutely effective, I just expect GW to release some sort of "<Imperium> and <chaos> do not count as a common keyword for the purposes of a detachment" type of rule soon. Combine that with a highly likely nerf to the IG CP battery commander and I'd be very leery of building that little super detachment until after the FAQ drops. GW doesn't seem to like gimmicks, and while its absolutely clever, having scouts be the preffered troops for admech is absolutely a gimmick they'll want to address in the FAQ at some point.

The guy with the best list brought 200 zombie bodies and used the CANT_SHOOT_THIS_UNIT strategem combined with the IF_MODELS_DIE_NEAR_THIS_UNIT_THIS_UNIT_GETS_MORE_ZOMBIES to get 200 bodes on the board. So uh, yeah, get scouts, git gud. The 200 zombie guy only lost the tourney because he didn't get to the bottom of turn 3 in time and the TO gave both players a loss. The other admech guy went 0-3 and got smoked by armies that could play the board. So this whole idea that we need to play 'admech as admech' is ridiculous. The admech codex is riddled with holes and can't be run against real armies.

I know I am probably the only one who thinks this, but I liked INDEX 40k. I thought it was cool. I liked the lower power level and the much looser army builds.

@Wulfey
I agree. 3x5 Scouts are mandatory for competitive play. I built mine for melee.

How many infantry do you bring for the deployment zone screen?

Wulfey wrote:
I know I am probably the only one who thinks this, but I liked INDEX 40k. I thought it was cool. I liked the lower power level and the much looser army builds.

You're not. I also think the codexes have made the meta worse. Deldar may be the latest example of imbalance.

Wulfey wrote:
Kastle Conflict battle report for following list:

MARS - Cawl, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutronager
SOUP - Celestine/Gem, Commander, 3x5 scouts
CADIA - Commander, 1x3 baslisks, 4x3 mortars

I went 3-0 and took second.

Opponent 1: Custodes + Greyfax. He had me go first and played to deny me secondaries. First turn only my non-LOS models shot. Which is all the more reason to keep bringing baslisks. Eventually my firepower and some pile in mistakes resulted him going into a tabling at end of round 4. He concedes end of round 4 and this results in me winning 19-11, which is actually bad. I should have forced him into last 2 rounds and cleaned him off the board to get another 6-8 points. He had run this list 31 times. He had 1x3 bikers, 3x troops, 2x biker captains, some allarus. I was surprised at how lousy custodes are in a tournament. He underestimated my scout screen and didn't actually hit my lines until turn 3, then overkilled the robots and I pulled 4 of them out of combat through attrition.

Opponent 2: nice guy, had 75 genestealers and 3x tervigons. He got first turn, but I had spread my scouts and mortars everywhere to prevent any useful deepstrike. He ends up deepstrike at his deployment edge. He eats my screen. But my dakkabots and artillery grind down his list until only the flyrant remains. We spend 2 rounds until I lock him in base wiht Cawl and let him kill the robots out of combat. I then fall back and he concedes granting me a 27-13 win.

Opponent 3: also a cool guy. He had 6x3 obliterators, a 20 man plaguebearer bomb. 2x3 nurglings. like 30 cultists, and then some weird nurgle characters. I had advantage to go first and he failed to sezie on me. Since I got first, I was able to advance my mortars and push my scouts up so that he would be a solid 42" from my robots with his obliterator drop bomb. He killed 10 scouts and 8 of my mortar teams in his response but didn't drop any vehicles or robots. I then shot his slow as hell oblits to pieces and used my incidental bolter fire to erase his plague bomb. Celestine then flew over and kill the last 2 oblits and his WL. This was a 31-13 win.

I end up getting second because the other 3-0 guy went 35/34/36 whereas I went 19/27/31. Unit takeaways

SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT SCOUTTTTTS SCOUTS MAKE THEM NOW STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND GET SCOUTS

All 3 games I only won because of the scouts. First guy I delayed his charge until turn 3, which was a death sentence. Second guy would have tabled me in a single turn if he could deploy on my deployment edge, but instead I took him apart piecemeal and erased 40 genestealers a turn solely because the scouts pushed him back another 20". Third guy it was only a game because i have scouts. I specifically ran scouts because obliterator bombs exist. That i went first and had scouts meant I was almost certainly going to win over time. Had I gone second, I would have only had even a passable chance because the scouts could shield my robots. I know some people here are not down with Soup, but uh .... if you want to win ... it can be done.

Congrats on getting second place mate. Well done. Hope you had a good time

Wulfey wrote:
Kastle Conflict battle report for following list:

MARS - Cawl, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutronager
SOUP - Celestine/Gem, Commander, 3x5 scouts
CADIA - Commander, 1x3 baslisks, 4x3 mortars

I went 3-0 and took second.

Opponent 1: Custodes + Greyfax. He had me go first and played to deny me secondaries. First turn only my non-LOS models shot. Which is all the more reason to keep bringing baslisks. Eventually my firepower and some pile in mistakes resulted him going into a tabling at end of round 4. He concedes end of round 4 and this results in me winning 19-11, which is actually bad. I should have forced him into last 2 rounds and cleaned him off the board to get another 6-8 points. He had run this list 31 times. He had 1x3 bikers, 3x troops, 2x biker captains, some allarus. I was surprised at how lousy custodes are in a tournament. He underestimated my scout screen and didn't actually hit my lines until turn 3, then overkilled the robots and I pulled 4 of them out of combat through attrition.

Opponent 2: nice guy, had 75 genestealers and 3x tervigons. He got first turn, but I had spread my scouts and mortars everywhere to prevent any useful deepstrike. He ends up deepstrike at his deployment edge. He eats my screen. But my dakkabots and artillery grind down his list until only the flyrant remains. We spend 2 rounds until I lock him in base wiht Cawl and let him kill the robots out of combat. I then fall back and he concedes granting me a 27-13 win.

Opponent 3: also a cool guy. He had 6x3 obliterators, a 20 man plaguebearer bomb. 2x3 nurglings. like 30 cultists, and then some weird nurgle characters. I had advantage to go first and he failed to sezie on me. Since I got first, I was able to advance my mortars and push my scouts up so that he would be a solid 42" from my robots with his obliterator drop bomb. He killed 10 scouts and 8 of my mortar teams in his response but didn't drop any vehicles or robots. I then shot his slow as hell oblits to pieces and used my incidental bolter fire to erase his plague bomb. Celestine then flew over and kill the last 2 oblits and his WL. This was a 31-13 win.

I end up getting second because the other 3-0 guy went 35/34/36 whereas I went 19/27/31. Unit takeaways

SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT SCOUTTTTTS SCOUTS MAKE THEM NOW STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND GET SCOUTS

All 3 games I only won because of the scouts. First guy I delayed his charge until turn 3, which was a death sentence. Second guy would have tabled me in a single turn if he could deploy on my deployment edge, but instead I took him apart piecemeal and erased 40 genestealers a turn solely because the scouts pushed him back another 20". Third guy it was only a game because i have scouts. I specifically ran scouts because obliterator bombs exist. That i went first and had scouts meant I was almost certainly going to win over time. Had I gone second, I would have only had even a passable chance because the scouts could shield my robots. I know some people here are not down with Soup, but uh .... if you want to win ... it can be done.

how did you accompany celestine with these scouts? i cant find any scouts in my adeptus ministorum army list

It´s a soup batallion with Adeptus Ministorum, Space Marines and Imperial Guard.

The thing is tho, that soup battalion turns my admech gun line from chancy to fully viable. I didn't really need the cadia spearhead, I could have have admech models in place the mortars. Rangers teams and more onagers could have done comprable work to the basilisks and mortar teams (at reduced efficiency and less flexibly). But the Celestine-Commander-Scouts combo fills the critical holes that an IMPERIUM gunline has.

Celestine I save for turn 3 and use her to clear out support characters, solo their captains, and then claim linebreaker and key objectives.

Commander gets me 5+/5+, which is just mandatory.

Scouts mean I don't die to any of the deep strike bomb lists. At the tournament, I would say 50% of the lists had a deep strike bomb.

How important do you think It was that your units were Scouts rather than say 10 Guardsmen spaced out as anti-deep-strike?

 ph34r wrote:
How important do you think It was that your units were Scouts rather than say 10 Guardsmen spaced out as anti-deep-strike?

10 Guard start in your deployment zone. If the opponent goes first he deepstrikes within 21" (12" deployment zone + 9" distance"). Scouts deploy outside of your deployment zone. Now your opponent is deepstriking 39" away (12"deployment zone, Scout 18" infront of that and then 9" more distance)

The difference between the two is pretty huge.

I'm more arguing that for those who are looking to this thread for advice, to maybe wait on buying the soup batallion until after the FAQ and you know it still works as intended.

You'd have to be insane to not realize how good that detachment is for admech. I'm merely arguing that it's obviously against what GW intended an admech army to look like and I wouldn't be surprised to see some detachment/ally tweaks to address it.

All I'm saying is unless you already have the models, maybe wait until the spring FAQ drops before you spend your money if you're looking at the super soup as an option. If the FAQ doesn't affect it by all means go out and buy it, I'd just hate a newer player to buy that stuff only for the strategy to be FAQ'd in a week or two.

Wulfey wrote:
Kastle Conflict battle report for following list:

MARS - Cawl, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutronager
SOUP - Celestine/Gem, Commander, 3x5 scouts
CADIA - Commander, 1x3 baslisks, 4x3 mortars

I went 3-0 and took second.

Opponent 1: Custodes + Greyfax. He had me go first and played to deny me secondaries. First turn only my non-LOS models shot. Which is all the more reason to keep bringing baslisks. Eventually my firepower and some pile in mistakes resulted him going into a tabling at end of round 4. He concedes end of round 4 and this results in me winning 19-11, which is actually bad. I should have forced him into last 2 rounds and cleaned him off the board to get another 6-8 points. He had run this list 31 times. He had 1x3 bikers, 3x troops, 2x biker captains, some allarus. I was surprised at how lousy custodes are in a tournament. He underestimated my scout screen and didn't actually hit my lines until turn 3, then overkilled the robots and I pulled 4 of them out of combat through attrition.

Opponent 2: nice guy, had 75 genestealers and 3x tervigons. He got first turn, but I had spread my scouts and mortars everywhere to prevent any useful deepstrike. He ends up deepstrike at his deployment edge. He eats my screen. But my dakkabots and artillery grind down his list until only the flyrant remains. We spend 2 rounds until I lock him in base wiht Cawl and let him kill the robots out of combat. I then fall back and he concedes granting me a 27-13 win.

Opponent 3: also a cool guy. He had 6x3 obliterators, a 20 man plaguebearer bomb. 2x3 nurglings. like 30 cultists, and then some weird nurgle characters. I had advantage to go first and he failed to sezie on me. Since I got first, I was able to advance my mortars and push my scouts up so that he would be a solid 42" from my robots with his obliterator drop bomb. He killed 10 scouts and 8 of my mortar teams in his response but didn't drop any vehicles or robots. I then shot his slow as hell oblits to pieces and used my incidental bolter fire to erase his plague bomb. Celestine then flew over and kill the last 2 oblits and his WL. This was a 31-13 win.

I end up getting second because the other 3-0 guy went 35/34/36 whereas I went 19/27/31. Unit takeaways

SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT SCOUTTTTTS SCOUTS MAKE THEM NOW STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND GET SCOUTS

All 3 games I only won because of the scouts. First guy I delayed his charge until turn 3, which was a death sentence. Second guy would have tabled me in a single turn if he could deploy on my deployment edge, but instead I took him apart piecemeal and erased 40 genestealers a turn solely because the scouts pushed him back another 20". Third guy it was only a game because i have scouts. I specifically ran scouts because obliterator bombs exist. That i went first and had scouts meant I was almost certainly going to win over time. Had I gone second, I would have only had even a passable chance because the scouts could shield my robots. I know some people here are not down with Soup, but uh .... if you want to win ... it can be done.

All they need to do to fight SOUP (and I want to fight it) is give rangers scout rule back...

Yeah. I would love for Skitarii to get a Scout rule. Hell, even a Vanguard move would be tolerable.

That being said, I think you need to bring both SM Scouts and a good number of infantry or heavy weapons teams. You need to fill the No Man's Land and your own deployment zone.

Suzuteo wrote:
Yeah. I would love for Skitarii to get a Scout rule. Hell, even a Vanguard move would be tolerable.

That being said, I think you need to bring both SM Scouts and a good number of infantry or heavy weapons teams. You need to fill the No Man's Land and your own deployment zone.

And they absolutely should. However I do think it's sound advice to hold off on soup purchases until this FAQ comes out. Obviously if you want to buy space marine scouts, go right ahead, but if you're buying them for the sole purpose of running in your admech army it might be prudent to wait up to a month (or whenever the FAQ comes out) and see if that is still going to be legal/viable. Same could be said for a fourth onager dunecrawler if the 0-3 restriction has any merit to it.

I'm not trying to stop or bemoan anyone from buying these things but it might be worth keeping in mind, especially if you're on a tight budget.

Wulfey wrote:


I know I am probably the only one who thinks this, but I liked INDEX 40k. I thought it was cool. I liked the lower power level and the much looser army builds.

Oh man, THIS SO MUCH. I really, really miss those early, heady days of 8th Ed when things looked so promising and I was playing consistently and having fun.

I'd take Rangers being the same points as Vanguard if they could Scout/Infiltrate within their own rules. Ya know, like they used to be able to do >.>

FAQ release will livestream on twitch in 20 min!

https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

Brace yourselves.

For us old timers that don’t want to use/create a twitch account. Can you summarise the changes relevant or anything that sounds exciting/awful.

Thanks folks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

Think I’ve found em


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So reading these rules I surmise that the whole mix and match approach no longer works for detachments. Hmm that changes things. I guess those enjoying scouts now have to take them as an auxiliary? Buff to command points for 5 per battalion means your still +1 better off after you do so.

Be interesting to see what you tournament dwellers think of these rules.

That errata on detachment and unit limits is kinda huge. Bye-bye Flyrant spam.

And the keyword fix really hits Soup where it hurts. Which I approve of!

Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Ideasweasel wrote:
Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Table. Organized Events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_adeptus_mechanicus_en-1.pdf

Scryerskull and Litany actually clarified!

But nothing useful for us. No point errata, no rules fixes. Nada.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Table. Organized Events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_adeptus_mechanicus_en-1.pdf

Scryerskull and Litany actually clarified!

But nothing useful for us. No point errata, no rules fixes. Nada.

Data sheet 3 per 2k list. Wait does that mean You could have 6 Daka bots in a squad and an additional 2 in a seperate squad but you could not have 4 squads of 2?

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Table. Organized Events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_adeptus_mechanicus_en-1.pdf

Scryerskull and Litany actually clarified!

But nothing useful for us. No point errata, no rules fixes. Nada.

Data sheet 3 per 2k list. Wait does that mean You could have 6 Daka bots in a squad and an additional 2 in a seperate squad but you could not have 4 squads of 2?

Seems to be the case. It is the spam-killer rule, basically.