Suzuteo wrote:
So... barebones Techmarine is 57 points and 2 CP for a Veritas Vitae.

I wonder why Death decided to make a shooting biker Techmarine that costs 94 points. Seems like a good way to get your relic bearer killed.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
So... barebones Techmarine is 57 points and 2 CP for a Veritas Vitae.

I wonder why Death decided to make a shooting biker Techmarine that costs 94 points. Seems like a good way to get your relic bearer killed.

He's fast and has a weapon that gets stronger at range right? Keeps him out of trouble and let's him contribute without having to get close enough to get stabbed/shot. Plus having a shoot character that can move fast probably comes in handy for late game objective grabs and those weird kind of clutch plays that sometimes pop up late game. Better than putting your relic on a smash captain and having it off table turn 1 (where it doesn't generate cp) then drop in and die turn 2-3.

PiñaColada wrote:

 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:

Extremely helpful stuff to know! A shame the Dragoon and Engiseers are extreme expensive $$$ wise though im not opposed to converting the latter. I haven't tried out the armiger as of yet but It seems a bit expensive for what it does.

Electropriests?

For the Dominus have you tried the Graia WL trait? It seems appealing when combined with a big chunk of vanguard or am I hoping for too much?

I actually loved painting my first vanguard so lets hope it doesn't get old too fast

Dragoons are a pain but even just two of them are a pretty good counter-charge threat. I've never personally used electropriests because I hate those models and they're pretty expensive in real money. I feel like, as graia, speed is going to be the biggest drawback. They just don't have any way of getting up the board, also the big FAQ gave graia a slight nerf for the electropriests (no more stacking feel no pain). They do have some potential though. I think a unit of infiltrators can help with harassing soft targets and stealing backfield objectives for a fairly reasonable cost.

I've tried the trait but in neither of the games I used it, it made any difference. Whereas generating command points is always practical. It has some utility (especially if you remember that vanguard give -1 toughness in close combat) I hope your love for the skitarii troops continue, I love the models but have a 10-pack unbuilt as of right now that I'm just never in the mood to finish.

Suzuteo wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
So... barebones Techmarine is 57 points and 2 CP for a Veritas Vitae.

I wonder why Death decided to make a shooting biker Techmarine that costs 94 points. Seems like a good way to get your relic bearer killed.

He's fast and has a weapon that gets stronger at range right? Keeps him out of trouble and let's him contribute without having to get close enough to get stabbed/shot. Plus having a shoot character that can move fast probably comes in handy for late game objective grabs and those weird kind of clutch plays that sometimes pop up late game. Better than putting your relic on a smash captain and having it off table turn 1 (where it doesn't generate cp) then drop in and die turn 2-3.

Yeah. I guess he's taking him as a shooty option. I dunno though. 29 points for 4 Rapid Fire shots (Twin Bolters and Storm Bolter), some extra move, and +1T sounds like a bad deal. I mean, If you get into Rapid Fire range (12", you actually lose the Conversion Beamer bonus (>21".

I would build mine as a Techmarine with Conversion Beamer, Chainsword, Bolter. So 65 points.

Sledgio wrote:Idk the standard SM codex that well, but is the bike so he can advance every turn for the 4++ jink save?

Octovol wrote:

The FAQ doesn't affect refusal to yield as it's not a wound ignoring mechanic. It's a death ignoring mechanic. They stack just fine.

 Aaranis wrote:
Do you guys often run against Plague Drones when playing against a Nurgle/DG player ? I found the little buggers are a pain to erase, and one of the players in my LGS started playing 10 of them recently. I already think it's exhausting facing DG but if they start pumping out ten 4W T5 5++/5+++ flying abominations for a grand 340 pts I think I'm done. He intends on buffing them with a spell that gives +1D on 6+ to Wound or something like that so in short they'll each be dealing a lot of damage (without AP thank god) in absurd numbers, and with that Frustratingly Resilient stuff I don't see how I can kill them. I'm not even sure 4 Dakkabots with WoM would wipe them to be honest.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Do you guys often run against Plague Drones when playing against a Nurgle/DG player ? I found the little buggers are a pain to erase, and one of the players in my LGS started playing 10 of them recently. I already think it's exhausting facing DG but if they start pumping out ten 4W T5 5++/5+++ flying abominations for a grand 340 pts I think I'm done. He intends on buffing them with a spell that gives +1D on 6+ to Wound or something like that so in short they'll each be dealing a lot of damage (without AP thank god) in absurd numbers, and with that Frustratingly Resilient stuff I don't see how I can kill them. I'm not even sure 4 Dakkabots with WoM would wipe them to be honest.

Well, good news is the most he can run is three now. Which is good, because it will take about 5 Wrathbots to drop one a turn, generally (and with really loose math).

 Aaranis wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Do you guys often run against Plague Drones when playing against a Nurgle/DG player ? I found the little buggers are a pain to erase, and one of the players in my LGS started playing 10 of them recently. I already think it's exhausting facing DG but if they start pumping out ten 4W T5 5++/5+++ flying abominations for a grand 340 pts I think I'm done. He intends on buffing them with a spell that gives +1D on 6+ to Wound or something like that so in short they'll each be dealing a lot of damage (without AP thank god) in absurd numbers, and with that Frustratingly Resilient stuff I don't see how I can kill them. I'm not even sure 4 Dakkabots with WoM would wipe them to be honest.

Well, good news is the most he can run is three now. Which is good, because it will take about 5 Wrathbots to drop one a turn, generally (and with really loose math).

Yeah I misunderstood, it's a unit of 9 he's going to run. I don't have 5 Kastelans anyway, and as a matter of curiosity I did the maths for a match-up of 3 Dragoons vs 6 Plague Drones (both 204 pts) and I concluded (at least from that single match-up) that Plague Drones are pure madness. Like, "what the hell were you thinking GW" madness. I'd need to run more match-ups to have a more stable opinion but doing their maths is a pain so not right now.

3 Dragoons vs 6 Plague Drones:
- 3 Dragoons: 5,33W inflicted, with rerolls of 1 to Hit 6,22W, with Conqueror Imperative + rerolls of 1 to Hit 11,41W to the 6 Plague Drones, killing almost two of them;
- 6 Plague Drones (with Nurgle Locus): 10,21W inflicted, and with rerolls of 1 to Hit 11,42W.

And that's without counting the psychic power that buffs their Damage on a 7+ while giving +1 to Hit. They're almost twice as efficient as Dragoons in that match-up.

PiñaColada wrote:

Octovol wrote:

The FAQ doesn't affect refusal to yield as it's not a wound ignoring mechanic. It's a death ignoring mechanic. They stack just fine.

Huh, I guess that's true. As I said, I've never used them so never thought about it too much. I also think that's RAW rather than RAI but what do I know?

 lash92 wrote:
So is there a point limit for you when you start using Cawl and when not? 1250? 1500? 1750?

Octovol wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Octovol wrote:

The FAQ doesn't affect refusal to yield as it's not a wound ignoring mechanic. It's a death ignoring mechanic. They stack just fine.

Huh, I guess that's true. As I said, I've never used them so never thought about it too much. I also think that's RAW rather than RAI but what do I know?

I actually think it’s intended to bypass the feel no pain restriction in the same way that infiltration is intended to bypass the deep striking restrictions. The mechanics work in a completely different way as well, for example:

Lascannon hits Electro priest for 6 damage. That priest then has to make six 5+ invuls to survive. he then needs to roll another 6 to be saved by the feel no pain mechanic, for ALL the failed saves.

Same Priest with RTY, same 6 damage and six 5+ saves. As soon as one of those saves is failed and he also fails his 5+ feel no pain, all other damage is discard, the model would be deemed dead. If you then make your RTY roll of 6+ it stays alive with 1W remaining. Also, i dont know of any other rule that protects a model from dying to failed morale.

Edited to use electro priest example.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Octovol wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Octovol wrote:

The FAQ doesn't affect refusal to yield as it's not a wound ignoring mechanic. It's a death ignoring mechanic. They stack just fine.

Huh, I guess that's true. As I said, I've never used them so never thought about it too much. I also think that's RAW rather than RAI but what do I know?

I actually think it’s intended to bypass the feel no pain restriction in the same way that infiltration is intended to bypass the deep striking restrictions. The mechanics work in a completely different way as well, for example:

Lascannon hits Electro priest for 6 damage. That priest then has to make six 5+ invuls to survive. he then needs to roll another 6 to be saved by the feel no pain mechanic, for ALL the failed saves.

Same Priest with RTY, same 6 damage and six 5+ saves. As soon as one of those saves is failed and he also fails his 5+ feel no pain, all other damage is discard, the model would be deemed dead. If you then make your RTY roll of 6+ it stays alive with 1W remaining. Also, i dont know of any other rule that protects a model from dying to failed morale.

Edited to use electro priest example.

Wait a sec... if you are shot with a Lascannon, you roll your 5++ save once. If you fail, then you take damage and then you roll for Fanatical Devotion six times, because that triggers on "losing a wound" which is the Inflict Damage step under Resolve Attacks (p181).

Refuse to Yield (per new FAQ) only triggers on the loss of the last wound that would cause that model to be removed. You then can roll and on a 6 that damage is ignored. If it is a 1W model and takes six damage, you would roll that each time you failed your 5++ save (because you can only utilize one wound-negating effect per the new FAQ).

aldo1234 wrote:
posted this in the army lists but didnt get any answers, so what do you think of this list?

Spoiler:

Praise the Omnissiah. I have small 1000 Friendly tournament coming up and would like some C+C about a proposed list, in the process of building and painting it so would be easier to know if its complete garbage now

Forge world : Stygies VIII

Battalion Detachment

HQ
Tech-priest Dominus - 129
eradication ray, phosphor serpenta
warlord- monitor malevolus
relic- raiment of the technomartyr

Tech-priest Enginseer - 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Rangers - 85
2 transuranic arquebus

5 Skitarii Rangers - 85
2 transuranic arquebus

10 Skitarii Vanguards - 108
2 Plasma caliver

10 Skitarii Vanguards - 108
2 Plasma caliver

Fast attack

2 Sydonian Drgoons 136

Heavy Support

Onager Dunecrawler - 145
Neutron Laser and cognis heavy stubber, cognis heavy stubber, Broad Spectrum Data Tether

Onager Dunecrawler - 145
Neutron Laser and cognis heavy stubber, cognis heavy stubber, Broad Spectrum Data Tether

Total 998 - 8CP

The plan is to castle around the tech priest dominus with the 2 onagers and screen with the 10 man vanguards and hopefully infiltrate the unit of 2 dragoons in for first turn charges. I can change points around to get 10 vanguard with 3 plasma calivers and enhanced data tether and 10 vanguard with 3 arc rifles and enhanced data tether if that might work out better

Tastyfish wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Octovol wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Octovol wrote:

The FAQ doesn't affect refusal to yield as it's not a wound ignoring mechanic. It's a death ignoring mechanic. They stack just fine.

Huh, I guess that's true. As I said, I've never used them so never thought about it too much. I also think that's RAW rather than RAI but what do I know?

I actually think it’s intended to bypass the feel no pain restriction in the same way that infiltration is intended to bypass the deep striking restrictions. The mechanics work in a completely different way as well, for example:

Lascannon hits Electro priest for 6 damage. That priest then has to make six 5+ invuls to survive. he then needs to roll another 6 to be saved by the feel no pain mechanic, for ALL the failed saves.

Same Priest with RTY, same 6 damage and six 5+ saves. As soon as one of those saves is failed and he also fails his 5+ feel no pain, all other damage is discard, the model would be deemed dead. If you then make your RTY roll of 6+ it stays alive with 1W remaining. Also, i dont know of any other rule that protects a model from dying to failed morale.

Edited to use electro priest example.

Wait a sec... if you are shot with a Lascannon, you roll your 5++ save once. If you fail, then you take damage and then you roll for Fanatical Devotion six times, because that triggers on "losing a wound" which is the Inflict Damage step under Resolve Attacks (p181).

Refuse to Yield (per new FAQ) only triggers on the loss of the last wound that would cause that model to be removed. You then can roll and on a 6 that damage is ignored. If it is a 1W model and takes six damage, you would roll that each time you failed your 5++ save (because you can only utilize one wound-negating effect per the new FAQ).

An FAQ will likely change it, but I'd have thought that the RtY is something that comes after the resolve damage phase from a single weapon. Guy gets hit, fails to save, takes 6 wounds, FD's two of those and then takes 4 wounds which is enough to remove him as a casualty. The other three wounds don't cause him to be removed (though if it were a Sicarian it'd be the second wound going through that you'd RtY against). Wounds don't transfer over unless they're mortal, the excess disappear when the guy dies. Guy now tests to see if he isn't dead - on a 6 he isn't. The wound that killed him is negated and the others have gone because we've moved onto the next stage - rule book specifically states "If a model loses several wounds from a single attack and is destroyed, any excess damage inflicted by that attack is lost and has no effect." RtY only kicks in after a model has been destroyed.

As for basic servitors, they just need to be able to take an extra ranged weapon or have the servo arm reduced by half. Let them specialise and they get good. Three heavy bolters/one servo for current cost isn't that bad a deal, and four is a steal. 50pts for an IG heavy weapon team with a 4W 4+ save (or that and an extra 3 shots) vs 42 for the same guns and 6W at 5+ save?

 Valentine009 wrote:
News from FW panel.

They have not even been working on fires. They 'want' to start work again this year, but it is a least a year away.

Wtf.

 Valentine009 wrote:
News from FW panel.

They have not even been working on fires. They 'want' to start work again this year, but it is a least a year away.

Wtf.