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I would think given the amount of stock they have just changed to last chance...they might be less inclined to bother with Horus heresy at all. Let alone porting it to 8th
Tastyfish wrote: Honestly, probably for the best - they clearly don't quite get 8th edition (hardly surprising as they're still playing 7th).
So at least we'll get Fires on the back of them bringing the Heresy into 8/9th ed...
I hadn't heard they would bring Heresy into 8th. Links?
Less the game all in one go (though I vaguely remember them saying that HH wasn't going to transition to 8th immediately but keep with 7th for the time being when 8th was first announced), I reckon the people are forgeworld are the kind of people who think it's a little inelegant for the series to be split over two game systems - which is quite understandable, so I reckon they'll stick to 7th ed right the way to the Emperor's palace. But they've got IA books bringing over the rest of the Custodes and Sisters of Silence (building off main studio rules), and probably another space marine index as the "as yet undisclosed third book before Fires".
Thought the original brief for Fires was Tau invading a vault/relic world that ended up being a fight between the newest weapons of the Tau'va against forgotten secrets of the Imperium - I'd always assumed at first it was going to be 60% Mentors with old marine stuff, 30% Admech and the couple of Riptides making up the rest. It would have been a crowed book. Proper AdMech vs T'au would be welcome though, if they can get the marine stuff out of the way in an index whilst getting more experience and feedback on how their units work in 8th. Plus you could have a lot of fun with the idea that there is a reason that not of these ancient designs have made it through to the 41st millennium completely unscathed, there's a reason they aren't in common use - ranging from hard to produce replacement parts, missing expertise and fatal flaws in the general design that becomes apparent with more in depth field testing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 18:05:10
I ran my GRAND STRATEGIST, KUROVS, VITAE build. Game one I started with 9CP after pre game spending and spent 14CP total over the game. Game two I spent 21CP. Game three I spent 17CP. This is lower than my simulator suggested, but overall a very strong addition and worth doing. Overall I was very pleased with my list. With better play I would have won my loss.
First opponent: John's 4x knights. My real first opponent was my nemesis who did that 3" movement every time his poxwalkers died. I had my screenshots ready and was going to shut him down. My list was much tighter this week and my guard were ready to relic of lost cadia all over his ass. But he a family emergency and I played the knights. I eventually shot them off the board. It was almost interesting when he almost got all my baslisks but didn't. My smash captains rolled great, but he knights were making 3 of 5 six up saves at a time, so there is only so much the smash captains can do. In addition my refunds were running super cold and I couldn't only in death does duty end when I needed to.
Second opponent: michaels imperial soup of BLANGELS, CADIA, RAVENGUARD. I made a critical deployment mistake and rolled three 1s to go first with the +1 and failed to seize. He was able to tie up my robots on turn one with FORLORN FURY because I didn't deploy correctly. He was vastly ahead all game, but I clawed up to a 16-17 loss. I was pleased with my play and army if only I had properly screend the robots. I should have just put them basilisks in front of them and let the robots shoot over them.
Third opponent: mikaels competitve tau. 4x ion cars, riptide, 3x coldstar fusion suits, some shield drones, some stealth suits, and some firesight marksmen. I managed to get first turn and suicided the no overwatch captain smash and burned 8 CP to kill two of his cars on a suicide run. His drones made obscenely good saves versus bolter fire. There was a huge line of sight blocker that prevent either of our real gunlines from shooting so we just traded kills. I racked up bonus points by suiciding troop squads on to the bonus objective every turn and held more every turn but he killed more every turn. Eventually I had his cars dead and put his suits forwards and they all charged some troops, but my seargant in my gaurd squad survived his morale even with me rerolling to try and kill him. This meant his whole army was right in front of my robots but he had pinned in a guard seargant on the objective. I suicided cawl to wound some suits and kill some drones. On the last turn I have all 3 of his suits in front of my untied up and ready to go 5 dakkabots. He insists taht the character rule prevents you from targeting more than one character. This is dead wrong. Like laughably and abusively wrong. But the FAQ won't load. I was up enough that just killing one suit was enough but this was very much a cheat in the face of the rules. After the game we were able to find the PDF and I ground him and the judge down about how the rule plainly says that each MODEL not unit ignores characters less than 10 for determining if a character with less than 10 in the closest. This isn't hard. But tournaments players gonna cheat when they can. My robots should have been able to simply blow all 3 suit commanders away. but he has to cheat and I only get to kill one. I still win 27-16 but these guys
UNIT by UNIT:
cawl was great as always smash captains are just mandatory. Get them in your list right now. Just do it. Put some admechy crap on there if you need to. guardsmen are great. They can get +1 to saves, they move really fast with movemovemove, they have oddly relevant shooting from the mortar dakkabots did dakkabot things, when they weren't losing me the game, they were winning me the game icarus did better than I thought. It has a wide threat range and is pretty consistent at plinking stuff, especially tau stuff. The truoble is that it isn't anti tank, it is anti elite 1 wound things basilisks did basilisk things. They consisnently put a few wounds on somethign that thinks it is safe. they draw crazy threat for their cost and threaten everything in the game ... but never really blow it away scouts are good all around troops that do things that other troops don't. It sucks when your opponent has fast melee stuff that eat them (lemartes), but they got me up on points many times thanks to being out there out of LOS
I wouldn't change much about this list. More dakkabots wouldn't have helped me win due to LOS. Maybe mephiston or lemartes would be more relevant than another smash captain? But that threat of another flat 3 damage beast being out there and maybe me having the CP to deliver that deathblow ... my thinking is that nothing in my army does flat 3 ... only smash captains can do that. So the second one just gives me more options to put that kind of real hurt on something big. Maybe hellhounds would do better than basilisks ... but I am not convinced because they don't threaten high T stuff all game. Basilisks provide that constant "your tank isn't safe" threat that more auto hitting stuff won't bring. Also, i think putting 260 points into melee is all I need. A third hero wouldn't have helped. I needed the shooting I had.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/14 04:34:16
I ran my GRAND STRATEGIST, KUROVS, VITAE build.
Game one I started with 9CP after pre game spending and spent 14CP total over the game.
Game two I spent 21CP.
Game three I spent 17CP.
This is lower than my simulator suggested, but overall a very strong addition and worth doing. Overall I was very pleased with my list. With better play I would have won my loss.
First opponent: John's 4x knights. My real first opponent was my nemesis who did that 3" movement every time his poxwalkers died. I had my screenshots ready and was going to shut him down. My list was much tighter this week and my guard were ready to relic of lost cadia all over his ass. But he a family emergency and I played the knights. I eventually shot them off the board. It was almost interesting when he almost got all my baslisks but didn't. My smash captains rolled great, but he knights were making 3 of 5 six up saves at a time, so there is only so much the smash captains can do. In addition my refunds were running super cold and I couldn't only in death does duty end when I needed to.
Second opponent: michaels imperial soup of BLANGELS, CADIA, RAVENGUARD. I made a critical deployment mistake and rolled three 1s to go first with the +1 and failed to seize. He was able to tie up my robots on turn one with FORLORN FURY because I didn't deploy correctly. He was vastly ahead all game, but I clawed up to a 16-17 loss. I was pleased with my play and army if only I had properly screend the robots. I should have just put them basilisks in front of them and let the robots shoot over them.
Third opponent: mikaels competitve tau. 4x ion cars, riptide, 3x coldstar fusion suits, some shield drones, some stealth suits, and some firesight marksmen. I managed to get first turn and suicided the no overwatch captain smash and burned 8 CP to kill two of his cars on a suicide run. His drones made obscenely good saves versus bolter fire. There was a huge line of sight blocker that prevent either of our real gunlines from shooting so we just traded kills. I racked up bonus points by suiciding troop squads on to the bonus objective every turn and held more every turn but he killed more every turn. Eventually I had his cars dead and put his suits forwards and they all charged some troops, but my seargant in my gaurd squad survived his morale even with me rerolling to try and kill him. This meant his whole army was right in front of my robots but he had pinned in a guard seargant on the objective. I suicided cawl to wound some suits and kill some drones. On the last turn I have all 3 of his suits in front of my untied up and ready to go 5 dakkabots. He insists taht the character rule prevents you from targeting more than one character. This is dead wrong. Like laughably and abusively wrong. But the FAQ won't load. I was up enough that just killing one suit was enough but this was very much a cheat in the face of the rules. After the game we were able to find the PDF and I ground him and the judge down about how the rule plainly says that each MODEL not unit ignores characters less than 10 for determining if a character with less than 10 in the closest. This isn't hard. But tournaments players gonna cheat when they can. My robots should have been able to simply blow all 3 suit commanders away. but he has to cheat and I only get to kill one. I still win 27-16 but these guys
UNIT by UNIT:
cawl was great as always
smash captains are just mandatory. Get them in your list right now. Just do it. Put some admechy crap on there if you need to.
guardsmen are great. They can get +1 to saves, they move really fast with movemovemove, they have oddly relevant shooting from the mortar
dakkabots did dakkabot things, when they weren't losing me the game, they were winning me the game
icarus did better than I thought. It has a wide threat range and is pretty consistent at plinking stuff, especially tau stuff. The truoble is that it isn't anti tank, it is anti elite 1 wound things
basilisks did basilisk things. They consisnently put a few wounds on somethign that thinks it is safe. they draw crazy threat for their cost and threaten everything in the game ... but never really blow it away
scouts are good all around troops that do things that other troops don't. It sucks when your opponent has fast melee stuff that eat them (lemartes), but they got me up on points many times thanks to being out there out of LOS
I wouldn't change much about this list. More dakkabots wouldn't have helped me win due to LOS. Maybe mephiston or lemartes would be more relevant than another smash captain? But that threat of another flat 3 damage beast being out there and maybe me having the CP to deliver that deathblow ... my thinking is that nothing in my army does flat 3 ... only smash captains can do that. So the second one just gives me more options to put that kind of real hurt on something big. Maybe hellhounds would do better than basilisks ... but I am not convinced because they don't threaten high T stuff all game. Basilisks provide that constant "your tank isn't safe" threat that more auto hitting stuff won't bring. Also, i think putting 260 points into melee is all I need. A third hero wouldn't have helped. I needed the shooting I had.
I ran my GRAND STRATEGIST, KUROVS, VITAE build.
Game one I started with 9CP after pre game spending and spent 14CP total over the game.
Game two I spent 21CP.
Game three I spent 17CP.
This is lower than my simulator suggested, but overall a very strong addition and worth doing. Overall I was very pleased with my list. With better play I would have won my loss.
First opponent: John's 4x knights. My real first opponent was my nemesis who did that 3" movement every time his poxwalkers died. I had my screenshots ready and was going to shut him down. My list was much tighter this week and my guard were ready to relic of lost cadia all over his ass. But he a family emergency and I played the knights. I eventually shot them off the board. It was almost interesting when he almost got all my baslisks but didn't. My smash captains rolled great, but he knights were making 3 of 5 six up saves at a time, so there is only so much the smash captains can do. In addition my refunds were running super cold and I couldn't only in death does duty end when I needed to.
Second opponent: michaels imperial soup of BLANGELS, CADIA, RAVENGUARD. I made a critical deployment mistake and rolled three 1s to go first with the +1 and failed to seize. He was able to tie up my robots on turn one with FORLORN FURY because I didn't deploy correctly. He was vastly ahead all game, but I clawed up to a 16-17 loss. I was pleased with my play and army if only I had properly screend the robots. I should have just put them basilisks in front of them and let the robots shoot over them.
Third opponent: mikaels competitve tau. 4x ion cars, riptide, 3x coldstar fusion suits, some shield drones, some stealth suits, and some firesight marksmen. I managed to get first turn and suicided the no overwatch captain smash and burned 8 CP to kill two of his cars on a suicide run. His drones made obscenely good saves versus bolter fire. There was a huge line of sight blocker that prevent either of our real gunlines from shooting so we just traded kills. I racked up bonus points by suiciding troop squads on to the bonus objective every turn and held more every turn but he killed more every turn. Eventually I had his cars dead and put his suits forwards and they all charged some troops, but my seargant in my gaurd squad survived his morale even with me rerolling to try and kill him. This meant his whole army was right in front of my robots but he had pinned in a guard seargant on the objective. I suicided cawl to wound some suits and kill some drones. On the last turn I have all 3 of his suits in front of my untied up and ready to go 5 dakkabots. He insists taht the character rule prevents you from targeting more than one character. This is dead wrong. Like laughably and abusively wrong. But the FAQ won't load. I was up enough that just killing one suit was enough but this was very much a cheat in the face of the rules. After the game we were able to find the PDF and I ground him and the judge down about how the rule plainly says that each MODEL not unit ignores characters less than 10 for determining if a character with less than 10 in the closest. This isn't hard. But tournaments players gonna cheat when they can. My robots should have been able to simply blow all 3 suit commanders away. but he has to cheat and I only get to kill one. I still win 27-16 but these guys
UNIT by UNIT:
cawl was great as always
smash captains are just mandatory. Get them in your list right now. Just do it. Put some admechy crap on there if you need to.
guardsmen are great. They can get +1 to saves, they move really fast with movemovemove, they have oddly relevant shooting from the mortar
dakkabots did dakkabot things, when they weren't losing me the game, they were winning me the game
icarus did better than I thought. It has a wide threat range and is pretty consistent at plinking stuff, especially tau stuff. The truoble is that it isn't anti tank, it is anti elite 1 wound things
basilisks did basilisk things. They consisnently put a few wounds on somethign that thinks it is safe. they draw crazy threat for their cost and threaten everything in the game ... but never really blow it away
scouts are good all around troops that do things that other troops don't. It sucks when your opponent has fast melee stuff that eat them (lemartes), but they got me up on points many times thanks to being out there out of LOS
I wouldn't change much about this list. More dakkabots wouldn't have helped me win due to LOS. Maybe mephiston or lemartes would be more relevant than another smash captain? But that threat of another flat 3 damage beast being out there and maybe me having the CP to deliver that deathblow ... my thinking is that nothing in my army does flat 3 ... only smash captains can do that. So the second one just gives me more options to put that kind of real hurt on something big. Maybe hellhounds would do better than basilisks ... but I am not convinced because they don't threaten high T stuff all game. Basilisks provide that constant "your tank isn't safe" threat that more auto hitting stuff won't bring. Also, i think putting 260 points into melee is all I need. A third hero wouldn't have helped. I needed the shooting I had.
Maybe less Dakkabots? Five seems a bit excessive. Maybe replace a couple with a squad of Dragoons? Might help get the Dakkabots out of combat in case they get stuck in combat again.
I ran my GRAND STRATEGIST, KUROVS, VITAE build.
Game one I started with 9CP after pre game spending and spent 14CP total over the game.
Game two I spent 21CP.
Game three I spent 17CP.
This is lower than my simulator suggested, but overall a very strong addition and worth doing.
Oh, so you opted for a spearhead? I am not super sure about that. I think we need more bodies to block with since we're putting so much into the assault now.
Wulfey wrote: Second opponent: michaels imperial soup of BLANGELS, CADIA, RAVENGUARD. I made a critical deployment mistake and rolled three 1s to go first with the +1 and failed to seize. He was able to tie up my robots on turn one with FORLORN FURY because I didn't deploy correctly. He was vastly ahead all game, but I clawed up to a 16-17 loss. I was pleased with my play and army if only I had properly screend the robots. I should have just put them basilisks in front of them and let the robots shoot over them.
Case in point. More bodies. I almost always put my Basilisks behind my Robots though. Actually blocks your LOS.
Wulfey wrote: cawl was great as always
smash captains are just mandatory. Get them in your list right now. Just do it. Put some admechy crap on there if you need to.
guardsmen are great. They can get +1 to saves, they move really fast with movemovemove, they have oddly relevant shooting from the mortar
dakkabots did dakkabot things, when they weren't losing me the game, they were winning me the game
icarus did better than I thought. It has a wide threat range and is pretty consistent at plinking stuff, especially tau stuff. The truoble is that it isn't anti tank, it is anti elite 1 wound things
basilisks did basilisk things. They consisnently put a few wounds on somethign that thinks it is safe. they draw crazy threat for their cost and threaten everything in the game ... but never really blow it away
scouts are good all around troops that do things that other troops don't. It sucks when your opponent has fast melee stuff that eat them (lemartes), but they got me up on points many times thanks to being out there out of LOS
I wouldn't change much about this list. More dakkabots wouldn't have helped me win due to LOS. Maybe mephiston or lemartes would be more relevant than another smash captain? But that threat of another flat 3 damage beast being out there and maybe me having the CP to deliver that deathblow ... my thinking is that nothing in my army does flat 3 ... only smash captains can do that. So the second one just gives me more options to put that kind of real hurt on something big. Maybe hellhounds would do better than basilisks ... but I am not convinced because they don't threaten high T stuff all game. Basilisks provide that constant "your tank isn't safe" threat that more auto hitting stuff won't bring. Also, i think putting 260 points into melee is all I need. A third hero wouldn't have helped. I needed the shooting I had.
I still think it is weird that the second Captain has a Veritas Vitae. I cannot imagine your opponent ignoring them. Might be the first units to die. In addition, you have to spread your stratagems around.
I still think Lemartes is the most cost efficient choice. He grants massive consistency. Deep Strike Slam and Lemartes in, have the Slam charge first, then the Lemartes to the same or a different target.
Mephiston is less reliable (especially if you're up against anything with good Deny), but also strong. He just needs to dump all of the buffs on himself.
In any case, great report.
Wulfey wrote: I think bolter scouts with a stormbolter/chainsword on seargant is the best possible equip. It gets you the most dice, most of the time.
I'm still sticking to Pistol/Knives and Pistol/Chainsword. Scouts must must must be able to function as an assault screen that you deploy aggressively forward. There are so many matchups and situations where they might end up hurting you more than helping you if they don't get that. Orks, Tyranids, Cultists, any enemy assault that can fly...
Oh, and don't forget. They get Red Thirst. You can wound Primarchs on a 4+ with those Knives. Haha.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/14 19:08:02
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Five is excessive? Nah. Depending on the meta, six is necessary sometimes, like if you absolutely must kill Magnus on T1.
If you're still struggling to kill Magnus T1 you're probably behind the times meta wise.
Not everyone wants to build the latest greatest list. Some folks build and paint a list and live with it as things change. *shrug* My point was 6 Robots can end a tough target in a single volley and sometimes we need that.
My robot's heads peek over the tracks of the basilisks. Next game I am going to put the basilisks in front as a wall. Maybe run them as TALLARN so that they can move and shoot. The problem with my screen is that I deployed spread out to stop the deep strike when I should have been much more worried about the FORLORN FURY granting a 36" threat on turn 1. We had the pointed dawn of war deployment so the FORLORN FURY threat was much larger than I thought it was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 19:58:49
Wulfey wrote: My robot's heads peek over the tracks of the basilisks. Next game I am going to put the basilisks in front as a wall. Maybe run them as TALLARN so that they can move and shoot. The problem with my screen is that I deployed spread out to stop the deep strike when I should have been much more worried about the FORLORN FURY granting a 36" threat on turn 1. We had the pointed dawn of war deployment so the FORLORN FURY threat was much larger than I thought it was.
The problem is often the Earthshaker barrel and gun shield.
Yeah. Forlorn Fury is great. You can even do it yourself since Slamguinius is also Death Company with the Visions stratagem.
That doesn't look like the Cyraxus scheme on the Thanatar, but I could be wrong. Maybe they decided to spend a few months arguing about what the planet's paint scheme would be changed to.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
FoC scheme doesn't have red shoulders so it seems unlikely to be a Cyraxus robot.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.
That was my first purchase in coming back to 40k after an 20 year absence. I guess the plus side is I can bring it to non competitive games...and everyone in my FLG just smiles and says cool model watch it get destroyed round 1.
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.
But the Shadowsword, ironically, does not have a sword. Or feet.
Anyhow, if they get the points for a minimum Crusader down to around 450, I would seriously consider one.
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.
But the Shadowsword, ironically, does not have a sword. Or feet.
Anyhow, if they get the points for a minimum Crusader down to around 450, I would seriously consider one.
The Crusader doesn't have a sword either. Still, I consider it a bit spurious because it's like comparing a hurricane bolter to a lascannon and then saying the lascannon kills tanks better.
The Crusader gets 12+3d6+2d3 shots, for a total of 17-36, with an average of 26.5 shots.
The Shadowsword gets 9-15, with an average of 12. So I would hope it's better at killing larger targets, because it's considerably worse (less than half as good) at killing hordes.
The Crusader doesn't have a sword either. Still, I consider it a bit spurious because it's like comparing a hurricane bolter to a lascannon and then saying the lascannon kills tanks better.
The Crusader gets 12+3d6+2d3 shots, for a total of 17-36, with an average of 26.5 shots.
The Shadowsword gets 9-15, with an average of 12. So I would hope it's better at killing larger targets, because it's considerably worse (less than half as good) at killing hordes.
It gets three S8 feet attacks to the Shadowsword's S9 tread attack.
But the happy compromise would be to lower base cost to 300, free Reapers, 5 point Gauntlet, and nerf Feet to 2 attacks (or give -1 to hit). Crusader would no longer be the clear best choice; Warden and Errant would become super popular, and Gallant would at least be viable
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 23:52:11
and has something to integrate them more in to admech.
