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How do you hide anything from an AM player if he sets up across the whole length, or width of the table ? He just needs to see a tiny bit of your vehicle, or one model of a 10-30 model squad to be able to hit the entire squad. You can't hide anything. And if you manage to do it you have to move on your turn to be able to fire which gives you -1 on your heavy guns.

p5freak wrote:
How do you hide anything from an AM player if he sets up across the whole length, or width of the table ? He just needs to see a tiny bit of your vehicle, or one model of a 10-30 model squad to be able to hit the entire squad. You can't hide anything. And if you manage to do it you have to move on your turn to be able to fire which gives you -1 on your heavy guns.

No. Straight up wrong every individual model shooting has to see it's target. so remove the one model that was visible and all the shots being poured in to shooting that unit are wasted. Control of casualy removal is a tactically importatn thing in 8th.

Earth127 wrote:

p5freak wrote:
How do you hide anything from an AM player if he sets up across the whole length, or width of the table ? He just needs to see a tiny bit of your vehicle, or one model of a 10-30 model squad to be able to hit the entire squad. You can't hide anything. And if you manage to do it you have to move on your turn to be able to fire which gives you -1 on your heavy guns.

No. Straight up wrong every individual model shooting has to see it's target. so remove the one model that was visible and all the shots being poured in to shooting that unit are wasted. Control of casualy removal is a tactically importatn thing in 8th.

Yeah, unlike AoS, wounds are allocated and save rolls made before the next attack is rolled (or allocated when all attacks are 'fast rolled').

Earth127 wrote:

No. Straight up wrong every individual model shooting has to see it's target. so remove the one model that was visible and all the shots being poured in to shooting that unit are wasted. Control of casualy removal is a tactically importatn thing in 8th.

No, you are wrong. Read the FAQ

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

Q: Can you wound models in a target unit that
are not visible to the firer or that are beyond its
maximum range?
A: Yes.

Only one model needs to be visible, and in range, and the entire unit can be wiped out, even if the rest are out of sight, and out of range.

You cant hide. LOS blocking terrain is a myth. Its very unlikely. If you manage to pull it off you limit yourself severly in your next turn.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

Yeah, unlike AoS, wounds are allocated and save rolls made before the next attack is rolled (or allocated when all attacks are 'fast rolled').

This is also wrong.

Read the next phrase:

When resolving a shooting attack, only one model in the target
unit needs to be visible and within range of the firing model
in order to make the attack. Your opponent can allocate any
resulting wounds to any unwounded models in the target unit
that they choose, even those that are not visible or within range
of the attack

Only if your opponent lets you. He can allocate. Afterwards targettting rules fropm; BRB apply.

Also read the first sentence of fast dice rolling p 179: the rules for resolving attacks have been written assuming you resolve them one at a time.

If i shoot at an enemy unit which has 10 models, but only 1 model is in range, and visible, and i do 10 wounds, my opponent cannot remove the 1 model, and ignore the other 9 wounds. He must allocate those wounds to the other 9 models which are out of range and not visible. The entire 10 model unit must be out of sight, and thats very unlikely. You cant hide from every enemy unit.

As an AdMech, my feelings on terrain that isn't completely blocking is sardonic laughter.

My own army, I try to hit shroudpsalm as much as possible, so it doesn't gain anything from terrain many rounds, and much of my army has ways to ignore if you're in it. If it's not blocking, it may as well be a bare table in many instances.

p5freak wrote:
If i shoot at an enemy unit which has 10 models, but only 1 model is in range, and visible, and i do 10 wounds, my opponent cannot remove the 1 model, and ignore the other 9 wounds. He must allocate those wounds to the other 9 models which are out of range and not visible. The entire 10 model unit must be out of sight, and thats very unlikely. You cant hide from every enemy unit.

Yes, he can. Your fault for wasting shots, it's why everything has split-fire these days.

Note that in the FAQ the question isn't: Can I wound models? Because the opponent does the allocating , not the firer.

Earth127 wrote:

p5freak wrote:
If i shoot at an enemy unit which has 10 models, but only 1 model is in range, and visible, and i do 10 wounds, my opponent cannot remove the 1 model, and ignore the other 9 wounds. He must allocate those wounds to the other 9 models which are out of range and not visible. The entire 10 model unit must be out of sight, and thats very unlikely. You cant hide from every enemy unit.

Yes, he can. Your fault for wasting shots, it's why everything has split-fire these days.

Note that in the FAQ the question isn't: Can I wound models? Because the opponent does the allocating , not the firer.

Exactly. Yes, he can.

It's in the core rules how shooting is resolved (one shot at a time), the FAQ doesn't touch that part.
The rules on the side for 'Fast rolling' even says it outright.

Earth127 wrote:

Yes, he can. Your fault for wasting shots, it's why everything has split-fire these days.

Note that in the FAQ the question isn't: Can I wound models? Because the opponent does the allocating , not the firer.

You are wrong. Range and visibility is only checked in step 2 of the shooting phase, not anymore afterwards. In step 4 the attacks are resolved. It doesnt matter if any models from the unit then are out of sight, or out of range, wounds must be allocated to them.

You repeat those steps for every model. It is not 10 guardsmen fire 1-4. It's guardsmen 1 fires 1-4 , rinse and repeat. Obviously we speed this up with fast dice. but at the core it's one at a time.

Then they just bring out the artillery and laugh, as the terrain hurts only you.

Earth127 wrote:
You repeat those steps for every model. It is not 10 guardsmen fire 1-4. It's guardsmen 1 fires 1-4 , rinse and repeat. Obviously we speed this up with fast dice. but at the core it's one at a time.

It doesnt matter if you do it with fast dice rolling or one dice at a time. Range and visibility is only checked in step 2. Even if all models of the unit which were in range, and in sight are killed in step 4, remaining wounds must be allocated to those out of sight and out of range.

 Marmatag wrote:
Then they just bring out the artillery and laugh, as the terrain hurts only you.

Yes, you cant hide from artillery.

Earth127 wrote:
You repeat those steps for every model. It is not 10 guardsmen fire 1-4. It's guardsmen 1 fires 1-4 , rinse and repeat. Obviously we speed this up with fast dice. but at the core it's one at a time.

The rules actually only state that the rules for RESOLVING (i.e. step 4) are one at a time. The rest seems to be on a unit basis. It's not entirely clear though, so I'd love some quotation that disproves it if you have any.

The relevant rule is:

The rules for resolving
attacks (pg 181) have been
written assuming you will
make them one at a time.