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 Formosa wrote:

No I watch a lot of films, a hell of a lot of films, and the really bad films I have watched dont try to wrap themselves up as amazing blockbusters, they are bad and usually have a wink at it, this film, bad story, bad acting, terrible pacing, bad edits, cliche and very predictable story, terrible characters etc. etc.

Dare I say... even episode 2 and 3 were better than this, even episode 1 was slightly better than this terrible film.

So yes, this is the worst film I have ever seen....

Epidoes 1-3 are perhaps worst directed major blockbuster films ever (well, the Hobbits come close). They are so bland and uninspired - there are no dynamics, no tension, everything is just people talking on greenscreen (and those backgrounds have NOT aged well, I gotta say), or walking and talking if George was feeling particularly frisky and edgy that day. Also they introduce no interesting new characters, everything is either rehash of old stuff (hey. Boba Fett's dad using the exact same suit...err...) or just plain badly done like entirety of Trade Federation.

Episodes 7-8 have plot holes too, and have too much rehash from the old movies but at least some thought was put on plots and characters and the directing is dynamic and engaging.

Backfire wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

No I watch a lot of films, a hell of a lot of films, and the really bad films I have watched dont try to wrap themselves up as amazing blockbusters, they are bad and usually have a wink at it, this film, bad story, bad acting, terrible pacing, bad edits, cliche and very predictable story, terrible characters etc. etc.

Dare I say... even episode 2 and 3 were better than this, even episode 1 was slightly better than this terrible film.

So yes, this is the worst film I have ever seen....

Epidoes 1-3 are perhaps worst directed major blockbuster films ever (well, the Hobbits come close). They are so bland and uninspired - there are no dynamics, no tension, everything is just people talking on greenscreen (and those backgrounds have NOT aged well, I gotta say), or walking and talking if George was feeling particularly frisky and edgy that day. Also they introduce no interesting new characters, everything is either rehash of old stuff (hey. Boba Fett's dad using the exact same suit...err...) or just plain badly done like entirety of Trade Federation.

Episodes 7-8 have plot holes too, and have too much rehash from the old movies but at least some thought was put on plots and characters and the directing is dynamic and engaging.

Not gonna comment on 7, that's a whole different can of worms.

While the prequel trilogy was terribly directed, so it appears this has been too, there were scenes when it was raining, then sunny, then raining again and no indication that perhaps time was supposed to be moving on between the scenes, that's horrible direction and editing.

Now here's the thing, episode 8 is just as guilty of the exact same things as the prequels that you mentioned, but is somehow managing to do it even worse, rey sucks and is token female lead, fin is so obviously the token black guy, now we have the new token Asian, this film is just chock full of token characters that no one actually has any actual character, they killed off token bad guy number 263 for... reasons, Jesus this film is nothing more than a polished turd

 Formosa wrote:
Jesus this film is nothing more than a polished turd

But man, look how SHINY is it.

Watched it last night

I don't consider myself a Star Wars fan boy I like bits but hate bits too.

I didn't like the movie, not everything but the bits I didn't like ruined it for me

Leia's ship jumps into hyperspace at the end of Rogue One.

And Darth Vader is able to follow her.

But somehow being able to track ships through hyperspace is some totally incredible never before seen technology...

So...Rey's second hand lightsaber is broken, and she'll probably need to make a new one and recycle the Khyber crystal (which appeared to be intact).

What sort of lightsaber do you think she'll make? I'm hoping she'll incorporate her old quarterstaff and make a force pike, or a double bladed lightsaber like Darth Maul. And I want it to be silver/white in colour, to reflect a Grey Jedi status.

As mentioned, there's a difference between tracking a ship through hyperspace and appearing right on its tail moments later and tracking it once it comes out of hyperspace and having to chase to catch up. The First Order figured out a way to do the former, which cost The Resistance time they were already short on.

As for Luke

Personally, I think in light of what happened to Carrie, they should have changed that final scene and had a rethink about the future storylines.

 Formosa wrote:
No I watch a lot of films

But you also say this is the worst film you've ever seen so you now have two contradicting statements. Either you are lying to us our yourself but either way there is dishonesty somewhere.



I feel like there were several movies all pressed together into an unholy mess. The Kylo/Rey/Luke stuff wasn't to bad whereas the stuff on the fleet with Poe/Hux/Leia was poorly implemented and the "casino world" seemed like a huge waste of time and good people. When they were on the ship trying to stay out of range of the First Order and suddenly had to go to another planet and then come back I'm, pretty sure I groaned audibly. Crazy_Carnifex's suggesting would have made it better but it seems like that whole section of the film needs a rewrite. I also agree that to often they undercut serious moments with attempts at humor. It was as bad as Thor: Ragnarok in letting a moment be a moment but it was still somewhat consistent in undermining itself. Of course I also didn't think they should have let Leia force pull her way out of total vacuum and near death nor did I think Roase Saving Finn was a powerful moment but a bit silly. It would have been a good arc for Finn and showed growth and conviction instead they had a deus ex machina keep the movie from having real weight. The only people really allowed to die were ones we hardly knew, like purple haired Admiral that we were supposed dislike one minute and love the next, or Snoke who we really know nothing about (unless you buy outside sources which I have long said I am not of fan of when understanding a movie).

I also sort of felt they did the whole salt on red earth just because it would cool, which it did.


*I agree that Luke went out well, buying time for the Resistance and showing up Kylo but I'm not sure I would call what happened to him dying. He certainly joined the Force like Yoda or Obi-Wan but unlike the ones mentioned above I wouldn't call him dead.

 JoeRugby wrote:

One of the criticisms from the first trilogy is how Luke gets to Vader beating level with little training

In the first trilogy Luke gets to 'Vader beating level' by embracing his rage and anger and just pounding the crap out of him until he chops Vader's hand off and shocks himself out of the dark side rage he slid into, finally realizing he's walking the exact same path as Vader. Vader kills the Emperor when he finally realizes the same thing: that he is going to be discarded and Luke will wind up in the exact same position- half a man, mostly monster.

By contrast, Luke's 'Light side Jedi' strategy for beating Vader is refuse to fight and wait for the rebels to blow them all up along with the death star.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So...Rey's second hand lightsaber is broken, and she'll probably need to make a new one and recycle the Khyber crystal (which appeared to be intact).

What sort of lightsaber do you think she'll make? I'm hoping she'll incorporate her old quarterstaff and make a force pike, or a double bladed lightsaber like Darth Maul. And I want it to be silver/white in colour, to reflect a Grey Jedi status.

I think they're going to try to one-up Ren's stupid cruciform saber. Maybe the spinny throwy thing from Krull. Or something from Warcraft, like Maiev's loopty-hoop blade.

Mayhew has retired as Chewie already, it was Suotamo all the time in Ep.8.

Seems most of the hate for Ep8 is centered around Luke. I guess I get it somehow, if you have got used to the idea of Luke being the ultimate white knight in shining armour, it is tough seeing him become cynical PTSD vet. For me, there are no such sacred cows in Star Wars universe so I don't mind.

 welshhoppo wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole Luke dying was supposed to mirror Yoda.

In that the greatest and most powerful Jedi dies from old age.

Maybe if Luke was running laps around his island, his heart wouldn't have given up. But it feels a little of a cop out.

In that case.... Gimmie more Chewie!

Did Rey even say more than 2 sentences to him throughout the film?

 Compel wrote:
Personally, I think in light of what happened to Carrie, they should have changed that final scene and had a rethink about the future storylines.

Spoiler:

It's going to be rough going into the new films with none of the original characters around in the flesh. - Heck, Chewie in TLJ had maybe 2 minutes of screentime in the film (and lets be honest, all my love to Peter Mayhew, but Chewie is the most recastable actor, he should have had a WAY bigger part in the film.

To be honest, I'd much rather them stay true to the Episode VIII they originally envisioned, especially since Carrie Fisher had already shot all her scenes for it, than mess around with it in post-production and re-shoots to edit that original story. I think it's evident Rian Johnson had a very clear vision for TLJ that would have suffered had he messed with it.

I have faith that whatever form Leia's story takes in Episode IX, it'll be appropriate and respectful. Even if it's a combination of stock/deleted footage or even Leia as an absent figurehead/appearing via hologram to inspire resistance across the galaxy, I think that'd be enough.

 Compel wrote:
In that case.... Gimmie more Chewie!

Given his ridiculous end in the EU, It's funny to find he's the last one (well, biological one) standing.

Apparently there weren't any handy moons to drop on him.
Thanks, Bob.

 LordofHats wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

Spoiler:

I think the whole Luke dying was supposed to mirror Yoda.

In that the greatest and most powerful Jedi dies from old age.

Maybe if Luke was running laps around his island, his heart wouldn't have given up. But it feels a little of a cop out.

Spoiler:

Honestly anyone who didn't see Luke dying somehow I think is being naive. They'd never be able to keep focus on any of the new cast with Luke running around. They had to resolve him somehow, and the options were kill him or come up with some stupid reason for why he's off nowhere not doing anything. Now somehow they went option 2 on TFA and then used both in TLJ which seems like a poor decision but Luke was basically doomed the moment a new trilogy came out and I have no idea why anyone would expect otherwise. This was the easiest part of this film to guess.

Talking about Finn, I actually like his character, he has very distinct mannerisms, he is goofy but just enough not goofy to drop into comic sidekick territory. Problem is that the writers seem to be at loss what to do with him: he is a grunt and that's the limit of his expertise. When removed from the special circumstances at Ep. 7, he is no longer equal to his companions who are far more powerful and important that he is. Poe is an ace pilot and commanding officer and Rey is a powerful Force user/Jedi prospect. How they are going to justify keeping a sweeper around these characters?

I like how they haven't tried to cram a romance aspect down our throats like cringeworthy Padme/Ani 'love story' in prequels. It is obvious that Kylo and Finn are both at least somewhat attracted to Rey, creating a triangle of sort and associated tension, but it's very subtle. Given how blunt they have been in many other respecs, such restraint is to be applauded, hope they don't screw it up in Ep9.

I feel that in general, biggest problem of the new trilogy is (besides too much borrowing from the original trilogy) lack of effective scary villains. I like Kylo Ren's complicated character but he is just not enough scary, and neither is Snoke. Hux is just a comedic figure (the guy commanding the Dreadnought was much, much better) and Phasma is impressive but shown way too little to be effective.

Have they actually killed Phasma off this time or are they going to pull another Houdini with her?

Might be amusing if she shows up in the next movie with charred silver armour, facial burns and an even more bruised ego.

Backfire wrote:


I feel that in general, biggest problem of the new trilogy is (besides too much borrowing from the original trilogy) lack of effective scary villains. I like Kylo Ren's complicated character but he is just not enough scary, and neither is Snoke. Hux is just a comedic figure (the guy commanding the Dreadnought was much, much better) and Phasma is impressive but shown way too little to be effective.

I can see them actually doing a whole horribly burned thing with her. - Trying to evoke some Vaderness in her, maybe? Or perhaps Guardian's "Nebula" may be a closer example.

Finn, yeah, I can see what you're saying. I really enjoy Finn, he's charismatic as all heck but they've done the, "I know Imperial secrets" twice in two films now with him, with the second time it not even being helpful.

 Paradigm wrote:

Spoiler:

As mentioned, there's a difference between tracking a ship through hyperspace and appearing right on its tail moments later and tracking it once it comes out of hyperspace and having to chase to catch up. The First Order figured out a way to do the former, which cost The Resistance time they were already short on.

As for Luke
[spoiler]
I'd argue he did die as a badass. Facing down an army, buying his friends and allies time to escape, putting Kylo squarely in his place and inspiring everyone around him. It doesn't matter that the body of Luke Skywalker was on a rock half a galaxy away, what matters is that the legend of Luke Skywalker was there on that battlefield, giving his everything for a chance at a better future like he's been prepared to do time and time again.

If anything, I'd say it's even more significant that he wasn't actually on the field. Being able to change the face of a battle and turn a certain defeat into at least a partial victory, all without even being there, is a far greater testament to the heroism and legend of Luke than simply turning up to smack Kylo around in a saber fight.

It's sad that he's gone (though I'm certain he'll appear again in Ghostly form) but unlike Han's death, I don't think it was tragic. He wasn't robbed of his life, he wasn't killed, he wasn't betrayed. He found his purpose, and gave his all for it.

[/spoiler]

Dude...Force Ghosts can still train living Jedi.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude...Force Ghosts can still train living Jedi.

But their limited in the time they can spend "manifested" can't they.

Rey had like one lesson off of Luke over the space of a few days I'm sure she could do with more than an occasional pop up otherwise maybe she is a Mary Sue....

 JoeRugby wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude...Force Ghosts can still train living Jedi.

But their limited in the time they can spend "manifested" can't they.

Rey had like one lesson off of Luke over the space of a few days I'm sure she could do with more than an occasional pop up otherwise maybe she is a Mary Sue....

I don't think we know that one way or the other.

Just saw the movie. I am 100% okay with it.

Was the opening dialogue with Poe and Hux a ball of cringe? Yes. Were there too many Marvel-esque quips? Yes. Were the Disney owl things completely unnecessary? Yes.

But they could have done so much worse. I was told it was terrible and went in with low expectations, and I was pleasantly surprised.

It is a worthy addition to the series.

The Porgs annoyed me less than the Ewoks did.
At least they didn't make the Porgs sentient.
Chewbacca barbecuing and eating a Porg was funny and a good bit of character development for an otherwise 1 Dimensional Character.

Oh, the Porgs were cute and all but they felt completely unnecessary.

Chewbacca is cool, but you don't need the Porgs to make a good scene with him.

Much like the Jedi isle keepers who were practically solely used for gags with Rey's blaster and lightsaber.

Porgs were mainly there because they were covering up the puffins that are everywhere on that island (and it's illegal to physically remove them) and too time intensive to digitally remove them.

I liked the fishnuns.

I also liked the little bit at the end with the kid. Showing that even absolute nobodies can be force users again

 chromedog wrote:
Porgs were mainly there because they were covering up the puffins that are everywhere on that island (and it's illegal to physically remove them) and too time intensive to digitally remove them.

But less time intensive to paste CGI anthropomorphised Puffins over the top of them?