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Im looking at what they do, and I dont see the point of them from gameplay standpoint.

Khorne Bezerkers and Warp talons are both cheaper and can take roughly the same wargear, for melee.

And Havocs can take all the same weapons for 3 points left.

Why bother with these?

You take them if you want a hybrid melee/ranged unit. Which you don't.

I use my Chosen as Chaos Lords with different load outs

The models are cool... so you use them as something else, like Galas said.

Well, you do get an extra attack for 3 points, so it might occasionally be worthwhile. Especially if you face something like orks or nids.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, you do get an extra attack for 3 points, so it might occasionally be worthwhile. Especially if you face something like orks or nids.

Bezerkers do double that. And warps I believe have 2 as well.

I would only use them if I wanted a tactical squad of meltas. Other than that....like you said. Warp Talons or zerkers are almost always better.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You take them if you want a hybrid melee/ranged unit. Which you don't.

They've never quite got Chosen right over the years have they?

They need some sort of incentive to be taken over havocs for shooting and berzerkers for melee. I remember when you could purchase a special rule for them like infiltrate or Tank Hunters which helped give them a place in the list - I wished they'd gone back to that type of mechanic.

They used to at least have the infiltrate special rule. Now they have nothing.

There's no reason to take them. none.

On top of that only 5 can take any special weapon which drives me absolutely nuts. Why not just give the whole unit access to special weapons like Space Marine veterans have.

They should have chaos armour (2+), access to jump packs and bikes. They should have the ability to choose a special rule before the game, like tank hunters, furious charge, infiltrate etc.

Then they should make Chosen Terminators. 3 Wounds, 3 Attacks. 2 Heavy Weapons per squad of 5 at least. Make them close combat monsters.

Choosen would be great if they had the option for a jet pack. But without it I don't think they have anything that can't be done better for cheaper or more effective.

Make them more like a mini chaos lord, give them all the lords options. Or make it so when you give them a mark you actually give them something on top, so they are the choosen of a God. There are a lot of things they could havd done to make them better, but in the end they were just called in this time.

Chosen are the "Take all special weapons at once Marines" arnt they? I havent read to much of the new Codex, but a 5man unit with 5 Plasma or 5 Melta? isnt that why you take them?

So I thought on it more, and LITERALLY the only way I can see this being good is for Tzeech if you need melee.

Khorne...Doesn't need them.
Slaanesh can use their Daemons
Nurgle is stuffed with decent and durable melee.

But Tzeech? Can't really think of a way to get a Tzeech unit with elite-level special weapons. Obviously not Duel Lightning Claws, because you just go Warps, but for all the Power Mauls and Power Axes, I can see taking a 5 man Chosen.

But on the other hand, Tzeech don't want that. They're too busy smiting you from 18" away.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You take them if you want a hybrid melee/ranged unit. Which you don't.

They've never quite got Chosen right over the years have they?

They need some sort of incentive to be taken over havocs for shooting and berzerkers for melee. I remember when you could purchase a special rule for them like infiltrate or Tank Hunters which helped give them a place in the list - I wished they'd gone back to that type of mechanic.

Its just the normal marine problem. Competitive players don't want units that are average at multiple things, they want units that are good at one thing specialists. Unfortunately Space Marines are pretty much epitome of 40k jack of all trades, master of none. Ok at shooting. Ok at fighting. And everyone hates tacticals as a result.

The reason to take Chosen over havocs or berserkers is the same as to take a tactical squad. Because sometimes your situation won't be optimal, and your berserkers won't be able to get to combat, or your havocs will get charged. The question is, how often does that situation come up? Most players assume it never will, because they try and listhammer and deployhammer everything out to be perfectly under their control. That's what I see anyway.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Chosen are the "Take all special weapons at once Marines" arnt they? I havent read to much of the new Codex, but a 5man unit with 5 Plasma or 5 Melta? isnt that why you take them?

True, however why would you not just take Havocs then that can do exactly the same thing but cheaper?

That's the problem with them. If you take all specials, then you're paying a premium for their sub par combat abilities that you don't want to be using if they are all equipped with melta.

If you kit them out for combat, then they are hideously overcosted when compared to warp talons who move faster and hit much harder. Throw in Berzerkers into the mix and you won't even give Chosen a second glance for melee.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Chosen are the "Take all special weapons at once Marines" arnt they? I havent read to much of the new Codex, but a 5man unit with 5 Plasma or 5 Melta? isnt that why you take them?

True, however why would you not just take Havocs then that can do exactly the same thing but cheaper?

That's the problem with them. If you take all specials, then you're paying a premium for their sub par combat abilities that you don't want to be using if they are all equipped with melta.

If you kit them out for combat, then they are hideously overcosted when compared to warp talons who move faster and hit much harder. Throw in Berzerkers into the mix and you won't even give Chosen a second glance for melee.

I didnt know Havocs were cheaper..... thats a problem. Looking at the points a full 5man unit of Plasma, Havocs are like 15pts cheaper.

Edit: I see no reason to take them

I think the general consensus is that Chosen are kinda pointless.

Sure you can give them a bunch of power weapons, but you know what else has power weapons and the same number of attacks? Terminators.

Ok no worries, I'll keep em cheap and give them chainswords for a cheap combat unit. Oh Berzerkers cost exactly the same points, have better WS and S and can attack twice?

Nevermind then I'll make a shooty unit with lots of plasma! But Havocs are cheaper...

I like Chosen as a concept and I'm in love with the Dark Vengeance models but they just don't have anything extra that would make you want to choose them over other similar units.They really need something to elevate them above their peers. These guys are THE veterans of the long war but other than weapon choice, a leadership bump and an extra attack they've got nothing that shows it. Even something small like that reroll thing that Fallen get would be something.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Chosen are the "Take all special weapons at once Marines" arnt they? I havent read to much of the new Codex, but a 5man unit with 5 Plasma or 5 Melta? isnt that why you take them?

True, however why would you not just take Havocs then that can do exactly the same thing but cheaper?

That's the problem with them. If you take all specials, then you're paying a premium for their sub par combat abilities that you don't want to be using if they are all equipped with melta.

If you kit them out for combat, then they are hideously overcosted when compared to warp talons who move faster and hit much harder. Throw in Berzerkers into the mix and you won't even give Chosen a second glance for melee.

Agreed, but if choosen got to keep all of their current setups BUT also gained something from their marks that would make them awesome. Choosen with the mark of khorn? Give them the beserker special rules. Mark of slaneesh? Now they are noise Marines. That kind of thing would have been awesome. Keep them undivided? Give them infiltration deployment. I don't care if they cost a ton then, there at least would be a "Yeah, but can a normal beserker squad take 2 melta guns and 2 sets of lightning claws?

Heck this would also have given a use to that useless stratagem. Undivided for infiltrate then khorne for maximum smashing.

Oh well, one can dream.

Fhanados wrote:
I like Chosen as a concept and I'm in love with the Dark Vengeance models but they just don't have anything extra that would make you want to choose them over other similar units.They really need something to elevate them above their peers. These guys are THE veterans of the long war but other than weapon choice, a leadership bump and an extra attack they've got nothing that shows it. Even something small like that reroll thing that Fallen get would be something.

If anything, the DV Chosen make great Aspiring Champions for your other CSM units (at least, that's what I use them for!)

A simple "Reroll 1's to hit" even would go a long way to give them a place in the list, not having to be relying on a lord for those juicy rerolls.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Chosen are the "Take all special weapons at once Marines" arnt they? I havent read to much of the new Codex, but a 5man unit with 5 Plasma or 5 Melta? isnt that why you take them?

True, however why would you not just take Havocs then that can do exactly the same thing but cheaper?

That's the problem with them. If you take all specials, then you're paying a premium for their sub par combat abilities that you don't want to be using if they are all equipped with melta.

If you kit them out for combat, then they are hideously overcosted when compared to warp talons who move faster and hit much harder. Throw in Berzerkers into the mix and you won't even give Chosen a second glance for melee.

Agreed, but if choosen got to keep all of their current setups BUT also gained something from their marks that would make them awesome. Choosen with the mark of khorn? Give them the beserker special rules. Mark of slaneesh? Now they are noise Marines. That kind of thing would have been awesome. Keep them undivided? Give them infiltration deployment. I don't care if they cost a ton then, there at least would be a "Yeah, but can a normal beserker squad take 2 melta guns and 2 sets of lightning claws?

Heck this would also have given a use to that useless stratagem. Undivided for infiltrate then khorne for maximum smashing.

Oh well, one can dream.

Yep agreed, they needed to get some sort of buff (like the old CSM codex where you could choose a special rule for example such as infilitrate) - it really gave them that little bit extra

How about 6 units in 3 rhinos? As many Combi-bolter as possible.
Is.. like... 132 shots of Combi-Bolters at 12". Or 144.
Is it a point-efficient anti-horde?
Just saying, no idea if it could work.

Chosen were pretty ridiculous in 3.5 edition, but it was because, for a price, they could become mini-chaos lords.

Sadly they are an artifact of the game that did not age well. Back then nearly every troop choice had an "elite" counterpart (Stormtroopers and Vets for Guard, Nobs for Ork Boyz, Aspect Warriors for guardians, etc...). But the Marine Elites were never good because the only real perk to them was to take multiples of some special weapon, and melee weapons tend to be overcosted on what were still essentially tactical marines (mainly the survivability). Chosen were still useful because back then Havocs paid a premium for their weapons (because havocs) but recent codexes have made it so that Havocs pay the same price for their heavy weapons as normal CSM, and now that you can take a detachment with HS as your compulsories there's even less incentive in chosen.

The SM counterparts evolved better if only because they ended up having divergent roles; Melee-centric vets became Vanguard Vets, which are a little bit more usable since they're no longer paying character prices for melee weapons, while the "normal" vets became Sternguard and their fancy bolters, giving them a niche that no other unit have (at least at the time). Chosen, meanwhile, kinda stayed the same and started losing rules (like infiltrate).

Note that Chaos Terminators use to be Chosen, but the 6th lore seem to indicate that they're no longer the same (i.e you become a Chaos Terminator by obtaining a suit, not because your warlord particularly favours you). And Chaos Terminators generally fulfill the role you'd think Chosen fills much easier.

I would actually be fine with keeping Chosen exactly the same as they are now, but bump them up to 2 wounds. That would definitely give them some viability when compared to the other options that do what they do, but better.

I'd prefer getting "Cult Chosen".

Specifically I WANT MY SKULLCRUSHERS (Chosen mounted on Juggernauts). I just realized I could have made them in 3.5 edition but that's loooooong gone now, not to mention the Juggernaut wasn't that good back then.

The Blightlords sort of satisfied my Nurgle Chosen, since they embody the concept of Plague Marines so well. Same goes for the Scarab Occult Terminators. Now I just want my juggernaut-riding ones and possibly the Kakaphoni for Slaanesh (entire unit of chosen wielding Blastmasters or Sirens and CCWs).

 NurglesR0T wrote:

If anything, the DV Chosen make great Aspiring Champions for your other CSM units (at least, that's what I use them for!)

A simple "Reroll 1's to hit" even would go a long way to give them a place in the list, not having to be relying on a lord for those juicy rerolls.

I used mine as Aspiring Champions for a while too. I got involved in a bit more of a competitive scene and eventually Chaos Marine units dropped out of my lists altogether in favour of Cultists and my Havoc units just had a bog standard bolter marine as Champion. Less impressive, but more points efficient (given I don't own any models with combi-weapons outside of Terminators).

I think giving them the ability to reroll 1s in combat and shooting would be nice. I'd even pay a point or two for it! I personally think they should also come with Chainswords as part of their gear like the good old days of bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon being standard.

Just now I did think of somewhat of an interesting use for them that Havocs can't perform - bolter spam! 4 models can take a combi weapon, plus one more for the champion. If you take all combi-bolters a 5 man unit can put out 10 shots at 24" and 20 at 12". Granted that bolters are fairly unimpressive weapons if you're struggling against hordes they could whittle down some chaff. For 90pts that's not terrible. If you're Alpha Legion a unit loaded up with Combi-Flamers could do the same thing fairly effectively but with some extra bolter shots in the mix.

Honestly, probably not a great investment of points but at least it's something!

Fhanados wrote:


Just now I did think of somewhat of an interesting use for them that Havocs can't perform - bolter spam! 4 models can take a combi weapon, plus one more for the champion. If you take all combi-bolters a 5 man unit can put out 10 shots at 24" and 20 at 12". Granted that bolters are fairly unimpressive weapons if you're struggling against hordes they could whittle down some chaff. For 90pts that's not terrible. If you're Alpha Legion a unit loaded up with Combi-Flamers could do the same thing fairly effectively but with some extra bolter shots in the mix.

Honestly, probably not a great investment of points but at least it's something!

This was my question above. Also, probably Alpha Legion > Rhinos for point efficiency.
But I know none that ever tried

In 6th and 7th, the main reason for Chosen was "more specials" if you were aiming for some sort of "not Sisters" boxspam list.

The problem was that for most intents and purposes, Terminators were the best choice for Elites. They had Deep Strike, so they didn't need a transport. They got Combiweapons for 5 points, which was good since you generally didn't expect *either* unit to survive intense return fire anyway, and they got their Power Weapons for "free" more or less. 3 Terminators with Power Axe and Combiplasma were cheaper than 5 Chosen with 2 Plasmaguns, and more tactically versatile.

Chosen were cute if you wanted flamers, and were "usable" with Traitor Legions for Alpha Legion. Now? They're a pointless unit, like a lot of Chaos units.

It sounds like the answer is, "don't".

In the Space Marine codex I've priced command squads on bikes against regular bikers, and with the same loadout (at three man squads) but the command squads taking the free chainswords in addition to their special weapon, the command squad are 27 points more, but they have over twice the melee capability, and with bike movement they're actually likely to get there. By comparison Chosen are just meh.

Pretty much. Which is really sad because the background behind Chosen is awesome and deserves to be seen on the table!

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This was my question above. Also, probably Alpha Legion > Rhinos for point efficiency.
But I know none that ever tried

Oops sorry! I was frantically trying to find something to differentiate Chosen from Havocs and that was all I found that was really worthwhile. Totally missed that it had already been covered!

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'd prefer getting "Cult Chosen".

Specifically I WANT MY SKULLCRUSHERS (Chosen mounted on Juggernauts). I just realized I could have made them in 3.5 edition but that's loooooong gone now, not to mention the Juggernaut wasn't that good back then.

The Blightlords sort of satisfied my Nurgle Chosen, since they embody the concept of Plague Marines so well. Same goes for the Scarab Occult Terminators. Now I just want my juggernaut-riding ones and possibly the Kakaphoni for Slaanesh (entire unit of chosen wielding Blastmasters or Sirens and CCWs).

"cult chosen" sounds like a great idea! It'd be like having a squad of berzerker champions or whatever cult you chose. GIve them access to the same gear that champions get and maybe a special rule based on your mark. As an example, I'd field 8 with plasma pistols and power axes and an ability that lets you advance and charge.

Fhanados wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

This was my question above. Also, probably Alpha Legion > Rhinos for point efficiency.
But I know none that ever tried

Oops sorry! I was frantically trying to find something to differentiate Chosen from Havocs and that was all I found that was really worthwhile. Totally missed that it had already been covered!

I was not pointing out that, just keep wondering, nice to see someone else brought it up, actually.
I like Cult Chosen and the like but we should find a way to use them right now.
And your idea of the AL looks more promising than the Rhinos I guess. It should be probably mathammered taking in account the launchers.