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Not a whole lot here that's very interesting.

Biel-tan's tactic is what was on the pic. +1 Ld for Aspects and everything can re-roll hits of 1 for shuriken weapons (also there's something called "Kurnous' Bow")

Dire Avengers and Avenger Catapults are cheaper.

2 CP generic stratagem to fall back and then shoot and charge.

3 CP generic stratagem to resurrect an Avatar with d6 wounds if it dies in the Fight phase.

2 CP Biel-tan stratagem to add 2 to charge rolls and re-roll fight hits of 1, or 3 and re-roll all hits if near an Avatar.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Not a whole lot here that's very interesting.

Biel-tan's tactic is what was on the pic. +1 Ld for Aspects and everything can re-roll hits of 1 for shuriken weapons.

Dire Avengers and Avenger Catapults are cheaper.

2 CP generic stratagem to fall back and then shoot and charge.

3 CP generic stratagem to resurrect an Avatar with d6 wounds if it dies in the Fight phase.

2 CP Biel-tan stratagem to add 2 to charge rolls and re-roll fight hits of 1, or 3 and re-roll all hits if near an Avatar.

Just so we're clear:
It really feels like whoever made the picture seems to have been trying to hedge their bets.

They first say "reroll all hit rolls" and then add the "of 1" at the end.

That's the wording of the actual bit.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
Not a whole lot here that's very interesting.

Biel-tan's tactic is what was on the pic. +1 Ld for Aspects and everything can re-roll hits of 1 for shuriken weapons.

Dire Avengers and Avenger Catapults are cheaper.

2 CP generic stratagem to fall back and then shoot and charge.

3 CP generic stratagem to resurrect an Avatar with d6 wounds if it dies in the Fight phase.

2 CP Biel-tan stratagem to add 2 to charge rolls and re-roll fight hits of 1, or 3 and re-roll all hits if near an Avatar.

Just so we're clear:
The picture actually said reroll all hits for Shuriken weapons.

No, you can see it on the previous page. It was right. Edit: It missed that the +1 Ld was for Aspects only, but who cares.

So once again, the CW trait is a better choice for a different CW. The Biel-tan attribute seems way better to Saim-Hann jetbikes than Aspect Warriors
At least Dire Avengers are cheaper

I'm officially holding my breath for the Saim-Hann preview tomorrow.

-

"Where Swordwind really comes into its own is with shuriken weaponry. Nearly every Craftworlds unit or vehicle has access to a shuriken weapon of some form or another, and with a near-universal Ballistic Skill of 3+ this essentially amounts to re-rolling a full half of all your missed attacks."

And most of the models that don't benefit are... aspect warriors. Who are supposed to be Biel-Tan's thing.

Yes so far they appear to be 0 for 3 in theming the Attributes.

Iyanden's is only really desirable for huge Guardian blobs, and then I guess some of the FW superheavies.

Ulthwe's is probably the best we've seen so far for everything except huge Guardian blobs.

Biel-tan's is only really that useful for Guardians or Dire Avengers in cheap Wave Serpents, or for Windriders (if those are reasonably priced). Maybe Vypers too. Also it's redundant with Autarchs.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:
Not a whole lot here that's very interesting.

Biel-tan's tactic is what was on the pic. +1 Ld for Aspects and everything can re-roll hits of 1 for shuriken weapons.

Dire Avengers and Avenger Catapults are cheaper.

2 CP generic stratagem to fall back and then shoot and charge.

3 CP generic stratagem to resurrect an Avatar with d6 wounds if it dies in the Fight phase.

2 CP Biel-tan stratagem to add 2 to charge rolls and re-roll fight hits of 1, or 3 and re-roll all hits if near an Avatar.

Just so we're clear:
The picture actually said reroll all hits for Shuriken weapons.

No, you can see it on the previous page. It was right. Edit: It missed that the +1 Ld was for Aspects only, but who cares.

It was two pages back, actually.

As for "who cares"? When it comes down to it, this might not be a legitimate leak or definitive listing but rather just really good guesses based on what has already been seen.

 Kanluwen wrote:
As for "who cares"? When it comes down to it, this might not be a legitimate leak or definitive listing but rather just really good guesses based on what has already been seen.

If they were predictions that actually ended up being fluffy and good, I would be more inclined to believe they were "good guesses", but the fact that they accurately guessed these completely un-fluffy and seemingly random attributes makes it hard for me to believe these were just guesses.

I think what is important to note about the picture's "guesses" is that while they are pretty accurate, they are also paraphrased.
Beil-tan attribute, for example, only gives +1LD to Aspect Warriors, rather than any unit. An important difference

Given that, my guess would be that the Saim-Hann attribute is more like:
"Units with the <Jetbike> keyword may reroll charge rolls. In addition, any unit with this attribute may ignore the -1 to hit for moving with Heavy Weapons"
If so, that would actually be the first somewhat fluffy attribute, since Saim-Hann is proficient on the move.

-

This is definitely...disappointing. As someone who runs my own Craftworld, I don't use tons of rangers or bikes and thus won't be using Saim-Hann or Alaitoc, so the three real options are the ones shown so far. They're all woefully unfluffy and quite boring. I do hope that the rest of the codex though makes Eldar worth playing.

-They did mention cheaper Dire Avengers = good.
-They mention much better jetbikes? = good.
-Some characters are definitely cheaper = good.

So if we get decent stratagems and point reductions I'll just...pick a Craftworld and roll with it. Biel-Tan was really what I was hoping for, but their trait is pretty crap. I hate re-rolls and I hate re-rolling '1's even more. Such a time wasting mechanic.

chosen_of_khaine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
As for "who cares"? When it comes down to it, this might not be a legitimate leak or definitive listing but rather just really good guesses based on what has already been seen.

If they were predictions that actually ended up being fluffy and good, I would be more inclined to believe they were "good guesses", but the fact that they accurately guessed these completely un-fluffy and seemingly random attributes makes it hard for me to believe these were just guesses.

Really? You think these were "unfluffy and seemingly random attributes"?
Ulthwe's is fluffed not as a "Feel No Pain" but rather as an Invulnerable Save. It works for the same reason it works for the Iron Hands(cybernetics) and the same reason it works for the Death Guard(disgustingly resilient) and Graia Forge World(tenacious/refusal to retreat).

The Swordwind is supposed to be the Aspect Warriors being motivated/zealous. Hence +1 LD. Add in the warlike nature of the Craftworld(they were one of the more common ones to be attacking Imperial holdings) and you get the baked in Plague Weapon benefit that the Death Guard had.

Iyanden has long been known as stubborn and the fact that they refused to abandon their Craftworld after it was effectively gutted makes that trait make sense as well.


Not saying that there's no chance whatsoever this leak is right--but like I said, there's a chance that it is just really good guesses based on what has already been seen.

 Cream Tea wrote:


And most of the models that don't benefit are... aspect warriors. Who are supposed to be Biel-Tan's thing.

In a sense yes, but, it technically affects 4 out of the 9 Aspect warrior units. (counting the Crimson Hunter and Exarch as essentially the same unit).

But then, on top of it, it affects a hell of a lot of other things in addition to those 4 units.

No, Biel-Tan doesn't give Biel-Tan a baked-in 'Plague Weapon'. It gives non-Biel-Tan forces that use Biel-Tan's attribute 'Plague Weapon'.

As has been posted, the majority of units that don't benefit from it are the units SwordWind is based upon. Aspects. Only Dire Avengers get any real benefit from that. That's why it's terrible for Biel-Tan: sounds good, sounds similar to what they need, but implemented in a way that makes it mostly help non-Biel-Tan forces.

My biggest problem with this is that they are pretty boring. Damm, how lucky have been IG. Their Regiment Doctrines actually offer a substantial difference in gameplay, and how you build your army.

This ones, and the Admech, Chaos, and Space Marines ones? Not so much.

I dont really get the Ulthwe one, back when I still played 40k Ulthwe were known for using black guardians and seer councils. I dont see what makes them any more more resilient then any other CW fluffwise

Kdash wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:


And most of the models that don't benefit are... aspect warriors. Who are supposed to be Biel-Tan's thing.

In a sense yes, but, it technically affects 4 out of the 9 Aspect warrior units. (counting the Crimson Hunter and Exarch as essentially the same unit).

But then, on top of it, it affects a hell of a lot of other things in addition to those 4 units.

"Affects" is pretty weak. I mean, you can count Dark Reapers too if you want since the Exarch can take a shuriken cannon. But this is kind of silly. It's a tiny bonus to all Aspects other than Dire Avengers and Shining Spears, and for Spears it seems unlikely that you'd ever want to rely on this instead of doing something to buff their laser lances too. Certainly you would prefer Ulthwe's trait hands down for every Aspect other than Dire Avengers.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:


And most of the models that don't benefit are... aspect warriors. Who are supposed to be Biel-Tan's thing.

In a sense yes, but, it technically affects 4 out of the 9 Aspect warrior units. (counting the Crimson Hunter and Exarch as essentially the same unit).

But then, on top of it, it affects a hell of a lot of other things in addition to those 4 units.

"Affects" is pretty weak. I mean, you can count Dark Reapers too if you want since the Exarch can take a shuriken cannon. But this is kind of silly. It's a tiny bonus to all Aspects other than Dire Avengers and Shining Spears, and for Spears it seems unlikely that you'd ever want to rely on this instead of doing something to buff their laser lances too. Certainly you would prefer Ulthwe's trait hands down for every Aspect other than Dire Avengers.

Even if the Trait was worded to grant Aspects units +1 Ld and re-rolls of 1 for hit to aspects , would have been way more fluffy than let's buff shurikens weapons.

Right now it looks like a bland choice, ok i built my army and i'm facing XXX let's see wich trait beneifts me more since they are like 100% irrelevant for my army tactics aside a small boon.

P.S: also it's seems Kurnous bow return as a relic..

 ulgurstasta wrote:
I dont really get the Ulthwe one, back when I still played 40k Ulthwe were known for using black guardians and seer councils. I dont see what makes them any more more resilient then any other CW fluffwise

It's fluffed as all of Ulthwe's inhabitants have a measure of psyker ability to the point where they can kinda/sorta draw upon visions of the future rather than "Raaaaaaawr we ate all da bullets!"

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ulgurstasta wrote:
I dont really get the Ulthwe one, back when I still played 40k Ulthwe were known for using black guardians and seer councils. I dont see what makes them any more more resilient then any other CW fluffwise

It's fluffed as all of Ulthwe's inhabitants have a measure of psyker ability to the point where they can kinda/sorta draw upon visions of the future rather than "Raaaaaaawr we ate all da bullets!"

Sure, whatever. You can come up with fluff to justify almost any rule. But it strikes me as a pretty big problem that if you want to run Guardian blobs you should pick Iyanden instead, and if you want to use Wraithguard you should pick Ulthwe.

Lord Perversor wrote:

Right now it looks like a bland choice, ok i built my army and i'm facing XXX let's see wich trait beneifts me more since they are like 100% irrelevant for my army tactics aside a small boon.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say. Thei are totally irrelevant to your tactic, and nearly irrelevant to your army composition, they are just boons.

It's funny how 8th ed has been advertised as edition of "tailor made, unique rules" and 40K now just feels more copy&paste than ever before. Only with lots and lots of confusingly named 'special' and 'thematic' traits.

And there I thought that 3rd ed was bland...

Honestly, I prefer this copy-paste method to prior editions in which every army had more "special" rules than the main rule book.
It may be "bland" be you cannot deny that is a better way to get balance if every army has access to the same rules.
It's not a perfect solution, but it is better than anything I've seen in the last 3-4 editions

Wow... just, wow...

Was pretty excited after seeing the Imperial Guard flavours but this is just depressing.

So Biel-Tan's trait does practically nothing for:
Fire Dragons, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers (the exarch already has re-roll 1's to hit), Crimson Hunter

And extra 1-2 shuriken pistol hits for:
Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees

An extra 2-4 shuriken catapult hits for:
Dire Avengers, Shining Spears

Surely that trait would be better placed on armies looking to play aggressive with Guardians, Jetbikes & Shuriken Cannon armed vehicles not an army filled with Aspect Warriors...

I understand the reasoning behind the craftworld attributes in that they don't want to shoehorn players into spamming certain units for each craftworld, but the entire point of choosing a craftworld was to theme the army with an obvious unit type. While I doubt there is someone out there who plays an Iyanden vehicle army devoid of wraith units, the craftworld attribute will still give unique benefits if they did. The consequence of this is that the craftworld attributes are so all-encompassing for most units that they don't seem like clear benefits for the supposed theme of that craftworld.

Take Swordwind Biel-Tan as an example. If I were to do an aspect warrior army, I would probably prefer the Ulthwe 6+ FNP trait rather than the Biel Tan +1 Ld for my units, especially if the Avatar continues to provide a fearless bubble.

If the Alaitoc attribute proves to be true I don't imagine seeing an army of rangers but rather an army of dark reapers with warlocks casting conceal.

Well, now we just do what Space Marine players have done for decades: Paint our army as X, but use the rules for Y.
Well played GW, well played

Quite frankly, the main issue with the Eldar index is that everything is stupidly costed. Almost everything needs a price break.

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Was pretty excited after seeing the Imperial Guard flavours but this is just depressing.

I had hopes that certain things will motivate me to finish and give this edition a try. It's not looking well...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Quite frankly, the main issue with the Eldar index is that everything is stupidly costed. Almost everything needs a price break.

Agreed. I was happy to see all the changes to units like Windriders and WKs from 7th to 8th.....but then I saw the points costs. So far I've played 2 games and just put everything on the shelf until the Codex.
Seeing DAs drop in price and knowing Windriders will be "much improved" gives me hope.






Too bad "hope" is the first step on the road to disappointment.
-

Man, that was a sad entry. I guess Admech and Eldar can cry on each others' shoulders.

Looks like -1 to hit is the only attribute that's really going to matter anyway.

...I guess you'll be able to drop a reviving Avatar on your opponent's doorstep with the infiltration stratagem they'll inevitably get. That might be nice.

This trait looks more like what you'd expect Alaitoc to have, +1Ld to represent their devotion to the Path system and being generalists re-roll 1's on Shuricans. Whilst the -1 to hit them they will almost certainly now get seems fluffy, a pemanent -2 on Rangers (who already have a -1 to hit them as standard) would be rather frustrating, especially when Conceal buffs it to -3.

So Ulthwe and Iyanded have each others trait, and Biel-Tan has Alaitoc's trait whilst Alaitocs actual trait is so generic it could be used to demonstrait any Eldar force striking from out of the webway from any of the 3 factions.