Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I was considering the whole picture - see my later posts. I was wondering if specifically the Summary Execution rule provided any value or whether it should be disregarded.
Yes, any time a conscript squad takes casualties from morale the commissar will save a couple. If you only use him for LD buffing and his bonus saves 10, he pays for himself.
The tricky part is, each and every test that matters he saves a Max of 3, and more frequently two as my math points out Summary Execution quickly normalizes his value to +2LD on conscripts...and +0 LD on everything else.
I would say to get decent value out of a commissar you want to be taking 60+ conscripts in min sized units. Which is not unheard of. If you're only running one conscript squad, just decide when you take a bad morale test whether there are enough models alive to warrant 2CP. Otherwise, skip the commissar and consider a flag.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Kanluwen wrote: And unlike Eldar, Marine, T'au, Skitarii, etc--the units that have Sergeants(Infantry, Veteran, and Scion Squads) are forced to purchase a CCW for the Sergeant who also is mandated to only carry a crummy pistol in order to benefit from FRSRF.
*Looks at the gakky force stave my aspiring sorcerers have to buy and cries*
the_scotsman wrote: I was considering the whole picture - see my later posts. I was wondering if specifically the Summary Execution rule provided any value or whether it should be disregarded.
Yes, any time a conscript squad takes casualties from morale the commissar will save a couple. If you only use him for LD buffing and his bonus saves 10, he pays for himself.
The tricky part is, each and every test that matters he saves a Max of 3, and more frequently two as my math points out Summary Execution quickly normalizes his value to +2LD on conscripts...and +0 LD on everything else.
I would say to get decent value out of a commissar you want to be taking 60+ conscripts in min sized units. Which is not unheard of. If you're only running one conscript squad, just decide when you take a bad morale test whether there are enough models alive to warrant 2CP. Otherwise, skip the commissar and consider a flag.
The other option if you happen to have a russ convienent is the command tank. Gives more leadership and costs only CP if it was already being brought along.
Why are you posting conscript numbers when his post is about infantry squads?
Mmm. My bad. Reading comprehension for the win.
There's sort of several questions going on here. First, did conscripts need a nerf to morale mitigation. The consensus appears to be yes. The second is was this an effective way of doing it, and it does appear to be. Third is does the commissars still have a place with conscripts. Fourth does the commissars still have a place with infantry squads/vets/MT. Fifth is if the commissars does have a place is summary execution still a benefit. Sixth is can the commissars be replaced with something more effective.
1.) As above most seem to agree that something needed doing
2.) It certainly seems effective
3.) Yes the leadership buff alone is pretty useful
4.) Yes the leadership buff alone is useful
5.) For conscripts yes, for infantry it's trickier. You have to lose enough models that morale matters and you risk losing more than 1(at least 4) and not so many that his rule doesn't matter (less than 9), then roll poorly enough that someone flees and then well enough that his reroll saves someone. The problem becomes that case is pretty unlikely. At low incoming casualties you're unlikely to need him at high casualties you're unlikely to get the second roll being good. There is a sweet spot, but now it's pretty edge.
6.) This becomes the issue for conscripts assuming you're bringing a russ 2 cp nets you leadership 9. For infantry either the 2 cp for leadership 9 or the banner gets you the leadership buff (assuming you aren't already catachans).
This leaves us in a position where the unit doesn't function super well as it was intended to for the basic infantry squad and for conscripts works ok, but mainly due to leadership bubble. To me this is a failure of design. There are more elegant ways for the summary execution to work. Pop a dude take half morale losses, pop a dude morale die is a 1. Both of those maintain the purpose and the flavor of the commissars. That said perhaps they wouldn't be enough to fix conscripts but then you probably should go after something else, for instance add "conscripts can never modify their leadership" to raw recruits.
EDIT: Ignore 5 I math bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/24 21:57:04
I don't think Commissars will vanish from the tabletop. The impact on mechanics are being overstated, he's still going to be useful for the leadership buff, and fluffy players are not going to want to get rid of them. They're the new Assault Marine / Raptor, a slightly sub-optimal unit that pops up in games because it's cool.
The impact on mechanics is far from being overstated.
Overstated is the correct term. Here's the math behind the impact of having / not having him:
In each scenario, > 91% of the time it's better to have a Commissar. For Conscripts, there's about an 8% of chance of rerolling for more losses with Summary Execution. And that's only when they take 8 or more losses in a turn.
So that's nice to think we have a community that can come up with edge cases to suggest doomsday scenarios, it demonstrates just how clever and imaginative everyone is. But come on.
Is it just me or is everyone ignoring this link?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Actually my findings were that Summary Execution is never a beneficial rule. There is no situation where on average it does not cause more casualties due to morale.
It's just weird in that it *appears* to be some kind of beneficial rule. But in reality it's more like a "gets hot" version of a morale boost.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: Actually my findings were that Summary Execution is never a beneficial rule. There is no situation where on average it does not cause more casualties due to morale.
It's just weird in that it *appears* to be some kind of beneficial rule. But in reality it's more like a "gets hot" version of a morale boost.
I think the issue is there are places where it can be beneficial, but people aren't seeing the other half of the die rolls. Like they go oh 4 casualties I roll a 6 blam a guy roll a 1 all good. But you could also roll a 5 blame the one guy who was going to flee and then roll a 6 and now have 2 extra run.
For instance 3 casualties it can only hurt roll a 6 blam and roll 1-5 you're in same place roll a 6 now 2 are dead.
For 4 roll a 5 and you get the same scenario but now 1-4 same place 5 + 1 casualty 6 +2. Roll a 6 1-4 benefit +1, Roll a 5 same, Roll a 6 + 1.
This unfortunately leads to not understanding the times where it helps are countered by where it's worse or no benefit.
Hmm now that I'm thinking about it on a purely average basis imagining conscripts having lost more than 8 casualties. Your morale loss goes from 1d6 to 1+1d6, that isn't a good rule.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/24 21:51:33
I don't think Commissars will vanish from the tabletop. The impact on mechanics are being overstated, he's still going to be useful for the leadership buff, and fluffy players are not going to want to get rid of them. They're the new Assault Marine / Raptor, a slightly sub-optimal unit that pops up in games because it's cool.
The impact on mechanics is far from being overstated.
Overstated is the correct term. Here's the math behind the impact of having / not having him:
In each scenario, > 91% of the time it's better to have a Commissar. For Conscripts, there's about an 8% of chance of rerolling for more losses with Summary Execution. And that's only when they take 8 or more losses in a turn.
So that's nice to think we have a community that can come up with edge cases to suggest doomsday scenarios, it demonstrates just how clever and imaginative everyone is. But come on.
Is it just me or is everyone ignoring this link?
I'm not. The value added from the morale boost is unchanged and pretty easy to quantify. The article is kind of missing the forest for the trees because it compares "no commissar" to "with commissar" instead of actually trying to figure out the value of the FAQ change.
The commissar went from a model you should pretty much bring with any build that featured more than 30 infantry bodies, to one you should only bring for the canned synergy when you have 60-100 conscripts to cover.
Would I rather have canned synergy over auto include? Yeppers. I don't get as triggered as juggler when a game puts in a unit called "THE STABBERBUFFER. BUFFS ALL STABBERS WITHIN 6". BRING THE STABBERS WITH HIM." But it is comparatively lazy game design.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Alcibiades wrote: Question. Do people still consider AM overpowered after this nerf?
Now that Commisars aren't an "ignore-everything" for 31 points possibly not. It'll still be hard for melee armies to make due with getting their stuff through the blob, but now at least there s a good chance to get through.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Alcibiades wrote: Question. Do people still consider AM overpowered after this nerf?
This FAQ took out a lot of issues such as bodyguard shenanigans, deepstrike shenanigans, made morale an issue in many builds. It also seemed to cut out some forgeworld broken combos.
However certain units are still op like Elysian plasmagun drop troops are just cheaper scions even if they are no longer 3 damage and can't spam command squads, basilisk platforms are just undercosted still, smite spam is still a thing, but overall guard are a solid strong tier 1 army still but I don't think they are overpowered anymore.
I have more of an issue with things that need to be improved like send in the next wave should be a replacement for a not quite dead conscript squad instead of a reinforcement point squad, steel legion order should allow disembark and reembark same turn. And the commissar ability should either be voluntary and the summary execution casulty should count for morale model loss. Overall minor quibbles for a very strong codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 00:53:35
Alcibiades wrote: Question. Do people still consider AM overpowered after this nerf?
They could be, but they're probably just in the realm of "very good" now. I wouldn't make a definitive answer unless we see AM still dominating tournaments after this but if I had to say then they're on the upper end of reasonable now.
The next head on the chopping block is, of course, Guilliman. Enjoy your time on the top while it lasts, loyalist scum!
Alcibiades wrote: Question. Do people still consider AM overpowered after this nerf?
Now that Commisars aren't an "ignore-everything" for 31 points possibly not. It'll still be hard for melee armies to make due with getting their stuff through the blob, but now at least there s a good chance to get through.
A melee army that struggles with 30 T3 wounds. I'm guessing it's a Tau melee army.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Alcibiades wrote: Question. Do people still consider AM overpowered after this nerf?
Now that Commisars aren't an "ignore-everything" for 31 points possibly not. It'll still be hard for melee armies to make due with getting their stuff through the blob, but now at least there s a good chance to get through.
A melee army that struggles with 30 T3 wounds. I'm guessing it's a Tau melee army.
Have you ever done the math on it or just being obtuse?
Take a Vanguard squad for example with all Chainswords and nothing else. That's like 20 attacks right? On the charge they inflict around 6 wounds and then without morale issues they would just fall back and then the artillery shoots them again.
In terms of melee, maybe only Berserker Marines and Genestealers would be able to be point efficient against Conscripts ignoring morale, and even then those units HAVE to be able to make it. Now Conscripts aren't completely invincible to morale for only 31 points, it makes it easier for ALL melee armies.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
At this point any IG complaining have a chip on their shoulders almost as big as a Taunar. They still have a good codex, the nerfs literally took NO flavor away, oh wow a commissar is only a maybe take?
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Actually it's more like a handful of players have an inherent need to complain.
Well that seems to be the most effective strategy at getting GW's attention, its how we got here after all.
Quickjager wrote: At this point any IG complaining have a chip on their shoulders almost as big as a Taunar. They still have a good codex, the nerfs literally took NO flavor away, oh wow a commissar is only a maybe take?
Commissars are out, conscripts are out, chimeras are out, platoon commanders are out, rough riders are out (lack models & not in the codex), Valhallans are out (send in the next wave nerf). I just find it entertaining that Guilliman parking lot lists have been dominating nearly every tournament for months yet remain unchanged while imperial soup armies that contained elements of IG immediately necessitated a nerf to the IG codex.
There is at least light at the end of the tunnel. It was just an FAQ which can, eventually, be FAQd again. Which is frustrating since this wasn't an FAQ for the Commissar. This was a straight up rules change.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Actually it's more like a handful of players have an inherent need to complain.
Well that seems to be the most effective strategy at getting GW's attention, its how we got here after all.
Quickjager wrote: At this point any IG complaining have a chip on their shoulders almost as big as a Taunar. They still have a good codex, the nerfs literally took NO flavor away, oh wow a commissar is only a maybe take?
Commissars are out, conscripts are out, chimeras are out, platoon commanders are out, rough riders are out (lack models & not in the codex), Valhallans are out (send in the next wave nerf). I just find it entertaining that Guilliman parking lot lists have been dominating nearly every tournament for months yet remain unchanged while imperial soup armies that contained elements of IG immediately necessitated a nerf to the IG codex.
Commissars are still going to be taken if anyone takes conscripts, which some people still will do. Keyword, some. Not all.
Chimeras were out in the Index not the FAQ Platoon Commanders were out in the Index not the FAQ Rough Riders can be taken in the Index, literally nothing changed Valhallans FREE TACTICS THAT LITERALLY ONLY HAVE UPSIDES are still good
You remind me of Chaos players in 5th when Grey Knights dropped, except they had a DAMN good reason.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/25 04:24:17
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Actually it's more like a handful of players have an inherent need to complain.
Well that seems to be the most effective strategy at getting GW's attention, its how we got here after all.
Quickjager wrote: At this point any IG complaining have a chip on their shoulders almost as big as a Taunar. They still have a good codex, the nerfs literally took NO flavor away, oh wow a commissar is only a maybe take?
Commissars are out, conscripts are out, chimeras are out, platoon commanders are out, rough riders are out (lack models & not in the codex), Valhallans are out (send in the next wave nerf). I just find it entertaining that Guilliman parking lot lists have been dominating nearly every tournament for months yet remain unchanged while imperial soup armies that contained elements of IG immediately necessitated a nerf to the IG codex.
Commissars are still going to be taken if anyone takes conscripts, which some people still will do. Keyword, some. Not all.
Chimeras were out in the Index not the FAQ Platoon Commanders were out in the Index not the FAQ Rough Riders can be taken in the Index, literally nothing changed
Valhallans FREE TACTICS THAT LITERALLY ONLY HAVE UPSIDES are still good
You remind me of Chaos players in 5th when Grey Knights dropped, except they had a DAMN good reason.
For the hundredth time, the people complaining about the commissar nerf the most are the people who weren't taking conscripts. Commissars are now worthless for anything BUT conscripts.
Everyone's chapter tactics are only upsides. So what? The Valhallan stratagem might as well have been deleted. Its completely stupid now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 04:45:20
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Conscripts were generally useless because you had to pay for a platoon command squad and 2 infantry squads before they would even be available as an option (and you only got one squad), and usually by that time the base units would have ate up so many points that conscripts became pointless. If conscripts had a prerequisite unit choices and didn't count towards the compulsory, you'd see them a lot less.
But they were still very good as a blob of 35-50 bodies with a hidden character like a priest or comissar. They were quite amazing for 4 ppm. Used them every time i played ig to great results in 7-th.
Commissars are now worthless for anything BUT conscripts.
There are still units that benefit from ld8 like ratlings and to a lesser extent ogryns/bullgryns. Probably even more than conscrypt blobs point-for-point.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/25 05:28:33
Colonel Cross wrote: There is at least light at the end of the tunnel. It was just an FAQ which can, eventually, be FAQd again. Which is frustrating since this wasn't an FAQ for the Commissar. This was a straight up rules change.
I've already written them a letter. We'll see if they respond. Your welcome to do the same:
Its ok for Eldar/Tau to dominate every tournament for years with no changes. Its ok for Guilliman parking lot lists to dominate for months with no changes. If however Imperial soup lists that contain "elements" of IG, immediate exterminatus of IG codex. Meanwhile the real offenders (Guilliman, Celestine etc) go ignored. Nope sorry, no patience for that garbage.
I'm playing Valhallans and I feel a bit confused about what GW has done to my Russkies.
The Valhallan stratagem is now completely useless, the Valhallan regimental doctrine, however, is not - in fact it has become much more valuable due to the Commissar nerf (as have regimental standards, so time to unfold those hammer-and-sickle flags).
So we basically went from mediocre doctrine (why would anyone care about halfed Ld losses when the Commissar is reducing the losses to 1 by default anyway) and great - altough by no means OP - stratagem to great doctrine and unusable stratagem in one fell swoop.
There is a "In Soviet Russia" joke somewhere in there, I'm sure.
I still plan to field conscript hordes buffed by Commissars, but I don't think that tactic is viable anymore if you play anyone BUT Valhallans. It's a bit sad that "Send in the next wave" won't see any use ever now, because the idea of Chenkov sending an endless stream of cannon fodder straight into enemy fire was mega-fluffy. They should have nerfed "SITNW" by limiting it to conscripts or vanilla infantry squads instead of making it completely useless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 09:03:25
Why are you posting conscript numbers when his post is about infantry squads?
Mmm. My bad. Reading comprehension for the win.
There's sort of several questions going on here. First, did conscripts need a nerf to morale mitigation. The consensus appears to be yes. The second is was this an effective way of doing it, and it does appear to be. Third is does the commissars still have a place with conscripts. Fourth does the commissars still have a place with infantry squads/vets/MT. Fifth is if the commissars does have a place is summary execution still a benefit. Sixth is can the commissars be replaced with something more effective.
1.) As above most seem to agree that something needed doing
2.) It certainly seems effective
3.) Yes the leadership buff alone is pretty useful
4.) Yes the leadership buff alone is useful
5.) For conscripts yes, for infantry it's trickier. You have to lose enough models that morale matters and you risk losing more than 1(at least 4) and not so many that his rule doesn't matter (less than 9), then roll poorly enough that someone flees and then well enough that his reroll saves someone. The problem becomes that case is pretty unlikely. At low incoming casualties you're unlikely to need him at high casualties you're unlikely to get the second roll being good. There is a sweet spot, but now it's pretty edge.
6.) This becomes the issue for conscripts assuming you're bringing a russ 2 cp nets you leadership 9. For infantry either the 2 cp for leadership 9 or the banner gets you the leadership buff (assuming you aren't already catachans).
This leaves us in a position where the unit doesn't function super well as it was intended to for the basic infantry squad and for conscripts works ok, but mainly due to leadership bubble. To me this is a failure of design. There are more elegant ways for the summary execution to work. Pop a dude take half morale losses, pop a dude morale die is a 1. Both of those maintain the purpose and the flavor of the commissars. That said perhaps they wouldn't be enough to fix conscripts but then you probably should go after something else, for instance add "conscripts can never modify their leadership" to raw recruits.
EDIT: Ignore 5 I math bad.
The Ld bonus for infantry squads are ok, but, it alone does not justify bringing a commissar for them.
Ok, so I just ran some additional numbers looking at non-Commissar vs Commissar with Infantry Squad and got the following (as like the previous poster I ran this over 5000 cases. The lost figure represents models lost before the morale phase, while everything else is a total figure once morale has been resolved.) The formatting sucks cos Dakka can't do tables or tab spaces apparently... –
As you can see, the Commissar still provides a benefit to the Infantry Squad, however, you’re not likely to see its effects most of the time. The main instances are where it makes you immune to morale when taking 2 casualties and when you lose 4 or 6 models from the unit.
The 3rd column represents you getting Ld 8 on the Infantry squad from a source other than a commissar (i.e Catachan regimental doctrine). The results are pretty similar to the Commissars results, however, this gives you a chance of keeping the squad alive when you take 8 casualties, whereas the Commissar does not, due to him shooting the last guy in the head.
All in all, I’d suggest that taking a Commissar for Infantry Squads now is only beneficial when you only take 2 casualties. The rest of the time, you’d be better off spending the 31 points elsewhere. Also, if you can get the Leadership 8 buff from elsewhere for free/cheaper, it would be more worth it than taking a Commissar.
Overall, I think it will come down to personal preference and whether or not you think you’ll be taking mass casualties a turn, or just a couple. If you have the spare points and like the model, then there is no massive detriment to your army for taking a Commissar.
However, when looking at using a Lord Commissar, you start to see the differences a bit more, but still, not a substantial improvement.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Esmer wrote: I'm playing Valhallans and I feel a bit confused about what GW has done to my Russkies.
The Valhallan stratagem is now completely useless, the Valhallan regimental doctrine, however, is not - in fact it has become much more valuable due to the Commissar nerf (as have regimental standards, so time to unfold those hammer-and-sickle flags).
So we basically went from mediocre doctrine (why would anyone care about halfed Ld losses when the Commissar is reducing the losses to 1 by default anyway) and great - altough by no means OP - stratagem to great doctrine and unusable stratagem in one fell swoop.
There is a "In Soviet Russia" joke somewhere in there, I'm sure.
I still plan to field conscript hordes buffed by Commissars, but I don't think that tactic is viable anymore if you play anyone BUT Valhallans. It's a bit sad that "Send in the next wave" won't see any use ever now, because the idea of Chenkov sending an endless stream of cannon fodder straight into enemy fire was mega-fluffy. They should have nerfed "SITNW" by limiting it to conscripts or vanilla infantry squads instead of making it completely useless.
Vallhallan's never needed a Commissar though, and still don't.
You you need is a Company Commander with the Pistol relic and you're sorted.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 09:24:01
Vallhallan's never needed a Commissar though, and still don't.
You you need is a Company Commander with the Pistol relic and you're sorted.
I'm absolutely determined to use Commissars with my Valhallans in some way - they're WW2 Soviet Russia in space, how can they not have Commissars?
The Valhallan Relic is an obvious auto-include now but it can only be taken once (and I usually put my company commander with something better than conscripts anyway), but I'd say that Commissars can still have their use when having more than one conscript squad in their Ld aura. Right off the cuff, I'm picturing something like this:
2 conscript squads in the front, a Commissar, a platoon commander and a command squad with regimental standard and 3 flamers (when fighting horde armies) or plasma guns (when fighting MEQs) in the back. The conscript squads have Ld9 and halved morale losses and bog down the enemy in close combat, while the platoon commander orders the command squad to fire into said close combat. Sound good?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 10:15:14
Colonel Cross wrote: There is at least light at the end of the tunnel. It was just an FAQ which can, eventually, be FAQd again. Which is frustrating since this wasn't an FAQ for the Commissar. This was a straight up rules change.
I've already written them a letter. We'll see if they respond. Your welcome to do the same:
Its ok for Eldar/Tau to dominate every tournament for years with no changes. Its ok for Guilliman parking lot lists to dominate for months with no changes. If however Imperial soup lists that contain "elements" of IG, immediate exterminatus of IG codex. Meanwhile the real offenders (Guilliman, Celestine etc) go ignored. Nope sorry, no patience for that garbage.
Ahhh how can I say this, so your happy to kill an edition of 40k so you can have an overpowered army or you want all armies balanced except for easy mode guard. well at least your more honest than most guard players in here.
As for the Tau and elder I noticed you stopped going back before you got to guard leaf blower and parking lot armies.
Guard are still the top codex by a large margin after the balancing pass they received and if the following codexs are on the same power lvl as pre guard codexs than another pass should happen to bring them in line. Probably reverse some of the index to codexs buffs or the pt reductions should do it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/25 10:45:52
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
Ah another Guillimann player who thinks it's okay I'm broken but heaven forbid others might have good codex. They need to get nerf bat swung wildly hitting wrong targets like here(conscripts were problem. Not commisar. Now you eliminated commisars).
5000 
