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drbored wrote:

It's so easy, and takes all of about 5 minutes.

You spent 5 minutes on something I spent weeks doing.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
"Having a DM" and "Rules not working" are different, non-exclusionary things.

True, but "Having a DM" can be a workable answer to "Rules not Working".

And I'm not saying they need to be in a traditional DM role. Just have one guy in charge of the campaign who makes the final ruling on these things, and communicates that ruling to the other players. Like an email that says "In the last game, Harry tried to use item X, which has three different profiles in three different books. We've decided to use the profile from book Y, which will be the standard going forward in this campaign, but we should have a discussion about how to deal with it in future campaigns".

I would say exactly the same if this were an RPG: just because there is a GM doesn't mean that the rules can be crap. The GM already has enough in their plate to also have to fix the game just because the designers are lazy. That excuse is no excuse at all.

I paid for the rules, so I want them to work, same as I would if I had bought a phone, or a car. If I want to upgrade them afterwards, or change stuff around, that's my prerogative. Having to fix them beforehand because the rules don't work is a no deal.

And that's the main reason I'm not playing Necromunda, right now.

For reference: I've been working making and translating RPGs for the last 15 years, and I regularly playtest games made by other people.

Any chance you gents could take the rules debate to another sub-forum?

 zedmeister wrote:
Any chance you gents could take the rules debate to another sub-forum?

All Necromunda discussions on this board eventually devolve into Baxx listing all the errors in all the books of Necromunda and complaining about the sheet of house rules he maintains. Doesn't matter which subforum it's in.

^ It is starting to look like that, isn't it...

I got word that this new set is going to have a rewrite of some of the stuff in the rulebook. Any word on that?

What is new, and what is changing?

It's almost as if those things continue to be relevant so long as they continue to exist.

*checks rules*

Yup, they still exist. Would you take bets that similar issues aren't going to arise with the next book, and the one after?

Baxx may be labouring the point a little, but the fact is there is a structural problem with how GW are producing the Necromunda rules, and we shouldn't be OK with it because the absolute minimum we should be able to expect for such premium prices is that the end product be properly proofread and edited.

 Grot 6 wrote:
I got word that this new set is going to have a rewrite of some of the stuff in the rulebook. Any word on that?

I don't think they've mentioned exactly, but apparently it will include the FAQ and errata, and I vaguely remember them maybe saying the FAQ & errata document would be updated with this release. Not sure on that second point. I was still fuming after they made a joke about making my wallet cry.

Not sure they will be making mine even sniffle, this time.

 Sqorgar wrote:
All Necromunda discussions on this board eventually devolve into Baxx listing all the errors in all the books of Necromunda and complaining about the sheet of house rules he maintains. Doesn't matter which subforum it's in.

Is it a problem for you to discuss when someone disagrees with you? I'll give you a break, please continue discussing how much any new piece of product will cost, or other meaningful topics!

I don't know about you, but to me the state of the rules seem to be at least tangentially related with the new releases for a game.

Yodhrin wrote:Baxx may be labouring the point a little, but the fact is there is a structural problem with how GW are producing the Necromunda rules, and we shouldn't be OK with it because the absolute minimum we should be able to expect for such premium prices is that the end product be properly proofread and edited.

Labouring the point is putting it mildly.

Baxx wrote:Is it a problem for you to discuss when someone disagrees with you? I'll give you a break, please continue discussing how much any new piece of product will cost, or other meaningful topics!

It gets really annoying when a news and rumour thread gets bumped to the top and, upon opening, instead of seeing either news or rumours, we're treated to the same discussion over the state of the rules for the forth or fifth time, at least, in this thread. And so goes the merry go round with the same arguments, complaints and hyperbole until a mod comes in to give us all a bollocking. I've found your posts on inconsistencies you've actually spotted to be welcome and useful, but your endless pontificating about the state of the rules as it stands detracts from it all.

Enforcers are looking great!

 zedmeister wrote:

Labouring the point is putting it mildly.

I'll take your word for it, sorry for repeating myself over again.

I do have to concur that the N&R thread really is not the place for that, if you want o continue that discussion can you please create a thread for it in the Specialist Games sub.

Is there word on the Enforcers equipment release, or are there more then one sniper rifle with the new set?

 Grot 6 wrote:
Is there word on the Enforcers equipment release, or are there more then one sniper rifle with the new set?

The new set is one of the existing Enforcers sprue and 2 Subjugator sprues (with 3 models each). I don’t think the Subjugators have sniper rifles.

Sniper rifles are available to Palanites only. Subjugstors have no access to any special weapons what so ever.

Is it possible that the Subjugator sprue will also function as an upgrade sprue for the regular Enforcers?

 Sqorgar wrote:
Is it possible that the Subjugator sprue will also function as an upgrade sprue for the regular Enforcers?

Yes, they can use the autopistol.

Meanwhile subjucator also can use stubgun, if that is your thing.......

Community preorder article

The 285 decals include gang symbols, motivational slogans, hazard warnings, sector numbers, arrows, voltage symbols, Enforcer icons and more, allowing you to really personalise your corner of Necromunda. They’re also great for decorating any Warhammer 40,000 scenery, and just imagine how much time you’ll save by not having to make 285 tiny graffiti stencils!

Build your own sector of the underhive with the Zone Mortalis Floor Tile Set – they’re perfect whether you want to create narrow corridors, abandoned dwellings or sprawling industrial complexes. Each tile features gridded floorplates and vents, and they’re designed to be compatible with the Zone Mortalis terrain in the Necromunda: Dark Uprising boxed set or any of our Sector Mechanicus kits. They’re also ideal if you want to create a Warhammer 40,000 or The Horus Heresy battlefield.

You also get 17 sprues of terrain, including 15 of new, plastic Zone Mortalis walls, columns, platforms and doors. These are the first-ever plastic Zone Mortalis kits and can be put together in innumerable ways. Whether you play Necromunda, Warhammer 40,000 or The Horus Heresy, you’ll want to get your hands on these so that you can combine the closeness of indoor firefights with the verticality and immersion of outdoor battles.

Just in case the box isn’t full enough, you also get a rulebook, which contains lore, background, all of the core rules of Necromunda and the two gangs in the box, and a new campaign. And you’ll get all of the accessories that you need to play. Phew!

17 sprues of terrain is more than twice the amount of Warcry starter (assuming full-size sprues). I already have a metric ton of terrain so I am going to buy only one set for now.

Don't think I can justify the $290...might just buy a bunch of the Corpse Grinders to use as cultists in my Word Bearers force off eBay for now.

Soon officially get to know the price but looking more and more like the 290

So the rumors were all true and we're looking at a $290 starter set for a GW release.

Well I think that just put the dagger in my desire to keep up with the Necromunda releases any longer. 5 or 10 years ago everything they've done with Necromunda would have been my dream scenario, but we're now 2 years in and I play so infrequently I literally can't get a game in with the current rules before new stuff is out. I've still bought it all to support Specialist Games hoping I'd one day just have everything to run any kind of campaign I wanted. Unfortunately it's simply just easier to stick with Kill Team and not worry about stuff being invalidated or having to buy a new book for each faction.

Hopefully the Zone Mortalis stuff will be available separately, but this starter set is literally twice the cost of the original Kill Team set with comparable terrain, rules and only slightly more models.

Making a $160 starter set that's only available bundled with 2 $65 sets of plastic floor tiles does seem like a very weird choice.

The starter set does not include the plastic floor tiles.

They're just charging $290 for what previously would have been $160.

Yikes. I agree that's what the wording sounds like, but how can that terrain possibly fill 15 sprues? The Sector Mechanicus kits are 4 or 5 each.

Enforcers give vibes of robocop or judge dredd so much!

ecurtz wrote:
Making a $160 starter set that's only available bundled with 2 $65 sets of plastic floor tiles does seem like a very weird choice.

It doesn't have any floor tiles. It has a board or mat and Zone Mortalis _terrain_.

plastic Zone Mortalis walls, columns, platforms and doors.

Sprues don't have a defined size. That building can be spread across multiples, the box corners can be five sprues on their own , with pipes and stairs on separate sprues.

 Starfarer wrote:
The starter set does not include the plastic floor tiles.

They're just charging $290 for what previously would have been $160.

It seems a stretch to class it as a starter set, but I can't think of a starter set or otherwise that had that much in for £100 or less. Shadow war only had 8 terrain sprues from what I remember.