Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Wonder how people would be treating the Judge Dredd Arbites if they were made nowadays.
I, for one, would be loving it.
We ran a game at Games Day for BL using Judge Dredd minis as Arbites a long time ago. Great fun.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Wonder how people would be treating the Judge Dredd Arbites if they were made nowadays.
I, for one, would be loving it.
Oh I would too, but it's basically a showing that 40k has integrated various ideas into it's mythos overtime (We do not speak of Obi-wan Sherlock Clouseau )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/10 15:21:39
Neronoxx wrote: Jesus christ, it's merchandising art from in-setting pawn shop, not the latest blanche design.
Weird reactions here, seriously.
Seems like anybody that is giving a slight criticism of something made by GW is overreacting for you
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I agree - regardless why can’t it be a slight homage anyway not like gw settings don’t take inspiration from others and others from gw. It’s just a bit of fun that maybe they thought people could shrink down to make posters from there terrain.
Its not that big of a deal (unless it becimes a standard, which i dint think it will) but id prefer them to take their inspiration from old necro rather than another game
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/10 18:15:38
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
Kirasu wrote: Current gw designers must really hate their own setting and art style to pick something that is such a copy of fallout which doesn't even match the imperial gothic look.
don't know what fallout is, don't care. originality is for fools.
Neronoxx wrote: Jesus christ, it's merchandising art from in-setting pawn shop, not the latest blanche design.
Weird reactions here, seriously.
Seems like anybody that is giving a slight criticism of something made by GW is overreacting for you
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I agree - regardless why can’t it be a slight homage anyway not like gw settings don’t take inspiration from others and others from gw. It’s just a bit of fun that maybe they thought people could shrink down to make posters from there terrain.
Its not that big of a deal (unless it becimes a standard, which i dint think it will) but id prefer them to take their inspiration from old necro rather than another game
To make the 'slight criticism' that GW is borrowing from Fallout's style (and that this doesn't fit the tone/theme of necromunda) is to ignorantly ignore the facts that follow;
First, it's in-universe sales fluffery. To think that even merchants and the like would use the overly-saturated grim-dark aesthetics popularized by Blanche is a gigantic fallacy completely at odds with the factual accounts of the settings. 40K isn't all grim-dark all the time, and so it thus obviously stands to reason that neither would society, and thus, Necromunda. Capitalism survives.
Secondly, accusing GW of 'borrowing' or 'ripping off' art from the fallout series just displays a basic failure to understand the creative process. All creators 'rip-off' from other creators. It's entirely unavoidable, more so when you confine your self to certain pallets, themes and overall tones.
Third, Fallout took their inspiration from something else
, something we all know GW is very good at, and has blatantly done over the last entirety of it's life. Fourth, Necromunda draws heavily from various pieces of sci-fi and punk themes, perhaps most notably the dystopian world/setting of Judge Dredd or Heavy Metal 2000.
So when people complain about a company borrowing art from borrowers for their own setting that borrows significantly from earlier established works, its not so much as I see an attack or criticism on GW, so much as just massively astounding ignorance of all facets of the discussion.
And yeah, I think I'd call that overreacting. Lemme grab the dictionary.
"overreact
verb (used without object)
1. to react or respond more strongly than is necessary or appropriate."
TLDR you're kinda right, but for the wrong reasons. Is that an adequate explanation?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/11 06:08:48
Neronoxx wrote: Jesus christ, it's merchandising art from in-setting pawn shop, not the latest blanche design.
Weird reactions here, seriously.
Seems like anybody that is giving a slight criticism of something made by GW is overreacting for you
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: I agree - regardless why can’t it be a slight homage anyway not like gw settings don’t take inspiration from others and others from gw. It’s just a bit of fun that maybe they thought people could shrink down to make posters from there terrain.
Its not that big of a deal (unless it becimes a standard, which i dint think it will) but id prefer them to take their inspiration from old necro rather than another game
To make the 'slight criticism' that GW is borrowing from Fallout's style (and that this doesn't fit the tone/theme of necromunda) is to ignorantly ignore the facts that follow;
First, it's in-universe sales fluffery. To think that even merchants and the like would use the overly-saturated grim-dark aesthetics popularized by Blanche is a gigantic fallacy completely at odds with the factual accounts of the settings. 40K isn't all grim-dark all the time, and so it thus obviously stands to reason that neither would society, and thus, Necromunda. Capitalism survives.
Secondly, accusing GW of 'borrowing' or 'ripping off' art from the fallout series just displays a basic failure to understand the creative process. All creators 'rip-off' from other creators. It's entirely unavoidable, more so when you confine your self to certain pallets, themes and overall tones.
Third, Fallout took their inspiration from something else
, something we all know GW is very good at, and has blatantly done over the last entirety of it's life. Fourth, Necromunda draws heavily from various pieces of sci-fi and punk themes, perhaps most notably the dystopian world/setting of Judge Dredd or Heavy Metal 2000.
So when people complain about a company borrowing art from borrowers for their own setting that borrows significantly from earlier established works, its not so much as I see an attack or criticism on GW, so much as just massively astounding ignorance of all facets of the discussion.
And yeah, I think I'd call that overreacting. Lemme grab the dictionary.
"overreact
verb (used without object)
1. to react or respond more strongly than is necessary or appropriate."
TLDR you're kinda right, but for the wrong reasons. Is that an adequate explanation?
Yes 40k and necro was inspired from a lot of different sources. Still, doesnt mean we have to like an obvious ripoff. I know for you any criticism of the big gw is akin to an insult, but for most, we prefer necro to look like necro, and not some cheap fallout knock off.
And that you thonk capitalism is a constant in human history only prove your vast ignorance
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
So what does Necromunda look like, then? Since we've established that official art, imagery, promos, fiction, and models produced by the company that makes the game somehow doesn't accurately portray Necromunda, what should we look at instead?
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
Sidstyler wrote: So what does Necromunda look like, then? Since we've established that official art, imagery, promos, fiction, and models produced by the company that makes the game somehow doesn't accurately portray Necromunda, what should we look at instead?
An excellent point!
I think the truth is that over the decades, the 41st millennium has drawn from so many disparate influences and gone through so many iterations, that everyone has their own idea of what it should look like. You’re just never going to please everyone or match everyone’s preconceived ideas. The beauty of the 40k setting is that you can interpret it however you like.
Sidstyler wrote: So what does Necromunda look like, then? Since we've established that official art, imagery, promos, fiction, and models produced by the company that makes the game somehow doesn't accurately portray Necromunda, what should we look at instead?
Same defense of the starwars prequels :p Just because someone owns the IP doesn't mean they're staying truthful to the idea of it, even if they have the ability to totally change and remake the idea over time.
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
Yes 40k and necro was inspired from a lot of different sources. Still, doesnt mean we have to like an obvious ripoff. I know for you any criticism of the big gw is akin to an insult, but for most, we prefer necro to look like necro, and not some cheap fallout knock off.
And that you thonk capitalism is a constant in human history only prove your vast ignorance
Okay, I'll humor you. Click the button big boy.
Spoiler:
You don't have to like anything. I don't care what you like. It's clear you don't like much of anything (see, two of us can make sweeping assumptions). Regardless, I'm not a big fan of people being critical of things that are clearly their own preference, despite them masquerading it as unquestionable fact. Doesn't matter what it is. GW, celery, Donald Trump. When I don't like what GW does, I say so. Feel free to search my history of posts about the Deathguard release, and how they handled things. You'll find you don't know much about me, or what I know. So the next time you ascribe favoritism to me again, I'm not going to overlook it.
Further, not even a full 5 pages ago, you displayed just how inaccurate your knowledge of the setting was with these gems.
"The Imperium is an explicitly patriarchal society where, all things being equal, leaders are expected to be male. After all the Emperor and his Primarchs were men (the 'Sanguinia Heresy' notwithstanding) thus proving man's natural role as master. Certain Imperial texts even make the biologically unlikely assertion that woman cannot accept Space Marine geneseed due to the gender difference.
Other women may serve alongside men as Guardsmen, laborers, farmers, scribes or even nobles but on most worlds there is a subtle attitude that women are expected to take a secondary role. They are usually relegated to traditionally female jobs such as cooking, cleaning, teaching or caring for children.
Only superb political connections, breeding, patronage, skill and luck can allow a woman to rise to the top in most Imperial organizations. Rest assured that those who do, are forces to be reckoned with."
"Disagreed. From the fluff I read, Imperium is not a gender egalitarian society. Women roles in it is mostly restricted to reproduction, since the perpetual wars of the imperium impose a high demand on nativity . Though my view of the Imperium might be in part tainted by Enki Bilal comic La foire aux immortels, which was an obvious influence for it (in the comic, women are put in large ''baby factory'' and continuously inseminated in order to produce as much soldiers as possible)"
"Happy that there was no orlock female. They wouldn't fit with the theme of the gang (outlaws biker are notoriously misogynistic). Same thing for Cawdor (religious fanatics tends to have a very conservative if not utillitarian (not in the philosophical sense) view on women, who are primarly seen as reproductive machines)."
Which is soooo far out of even being close to being in the ball park of 'correctness' for 40K let alone necromunda. The sheer size of the imperium makes any sweeping description of it's systems hilariously inadequate at the best of moments - there is guaranteed to be a world/system that matches the description you believe in, and uncountable amounts that fly in the face of it. Any consistent exposure to actual content, Black Library being your main IV drip, will tell you this. It's one of those self-evident truths, kinda like the fact the earth is a sphere. That's the truth of it - there isn't a whole lot that CAN'T fit into the imperium. So when people point and say "I don't like that, it's not 40K" I end up feeling obligated to remind them that they have no fething idea what they're saying. Oddly, no one ever thanks me for this, but I don't do it for the attention.
And again, as far as the history lesson, you are incorrect once more.
"Although the continuous development of capitalism as a system dates only from the 16th century, antecedents of capitalist institutions existed in the ancient world, and flourishing pockets of capitalism were present during the later European Middle Ages. The development of capitalism was spearheaded by the growth of the English cloth industry during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. The feature of this development that distinguished capitalism from previous systems was the use of the excess of production over consumption to enlarge productive capacity rather than to invest in economically unproductive enterprises, such as pyramids and cathedrals. This characteristic was encouraged by several historical events."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/capitalism in case you were wondering
So maybe roll back that personal vendetta, baseless opinion and relax, because I know what I'm talking about
But to keep things on track, I'll leave these here. Excellent studios making excellent products that'll work well for Necro, despite us also being given the option of just tunnel-rating it.
http://www.wargamestournaments.com/ These guys can even 3d print things for you, which is pretty nifty. Does Shapeways have anything like this? I skimmed em earlier and din't see anything.
https://warlayer.com/ Possibly the most impressive (read: spendy) of the three, these also look the best imo.
https://deathraydesigns.com/product-category/terrain/scifi/black-site-armageddon/
Furthermore, somebody posted a FB pic in a feed and it made me consider that there might be some potential in a alternate game mode for Necromunda based off of Player Unknown's Battlegrounds? Any thoughts on that? It might make for an incredibly fun one-shot event.
For those who don’t have the time to paint terrain / lack of storage space there was also a nice pre-printed terrain which ended on Kickstarter last week but will be open for late backing tomorrow, scroll down st the below link for pictures. I picked up a couple of sets (in different colours) and the mag-rail addon.
Sidstyler wrote: So what does Necromunda look like, then? Since we've established that official art, imagery, promos, fiction, and models produced by the company that makes the game somehow doesn't accurately portray Necromunda, what should we look at instead?
Same defense of the starwars prequels :p Just because someone owns the IP doesn't mean they're staying truthful to the idea of it, even if they have the ability to totally change and remake the idea over time.
The aforementioned prequels were done by the creator of said IP, not by "someone who owns the IP" though. So there's that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/11 10:34:18
People are really that b-hurt over a single joke image?
Next time you'll tell me the Regimental Standard is all wrong because line #5256 from obscure book #296 totally contradicts the premise of the latest one
Albertorius wrote: The aforementioned prequels were done by the creator of said IP, not by "someone who owns the IP" though. So there's that.
Um, no. Just no. The original 3 movies were made by a team, including Lucas ex-wife, Marcia (perhaps the person most responsible for the success of A New Hope), his producer, Kurtz, and several other people who were able to tell Lucas 'no' and corrected vast majority of issues of the dumpster fire that was his original plan for SW. Sadly, as his ego (and purse) grew, he fired them all and replaced them with boot-licking yes-men who were fawning all other the dreck he wrote instead of, like the original crew, tell him "George, are you sure about this? Could definitely use some polish, or straight up cut".
It's telling out of original 6 movies, the most beloved one, ESB, is the one Lucas left for his original team to make and ignored for a year, while the prequels show at best one or two good ideas that were marred by atrocious writing and garbage characters like Jar Jar or Lucas' idea of Anakin/Padme and were left to die in bad movies. Too bad no one bothers to read the memories of people who made the original trilogy and gives the credit where it's due, but instead still praise someone who lucked into great team who polished said one or two good ideas into the original trilogy only to fade into thankless obscurity...
Yes 40k and necro was inspired from a lot of different sources. Still, doesnt mean we have to like an obvious ripoff. I know for you any criticism of the big gw is akin to an insult, but for most, we prefer necro to look like necro, and not some cheap fallout knock off.
And that you thonk capitalism is a constant in human history only prove your vast ignorance
Okay, I'll humor you. Click the button big boy.
Spoiler:
You don't have to like anything. I don't care what you like. It's clear you don't like much of anything (see, two of us can make sweeping assumptions). Regardless, I'm not a big fan of people being critical of things that are clearly their own preference, despite them masquerading it as unquestionable fact. Doesn't matter what it is. GW, celery, Donald Trump. When I don't like what GW does, I say so. Feel free to search my history of posts about the Deathguard release, and how they handled things. You'll find you don't know much about me, or what I know. So the next time you ascribe favoritism to me again, I'm not going to overlook it.
Further, not even a full 5 pages ago, you displayed just how inaccurate your knowledge of the setting was with these gems.
"The Imperium is an explicitly patriarchal society where, all things being equal, leaders are expected to be male. After all the Emperor and his Primarchs were men (the 'Sanguinia Heresy' notwithstanding) thus proving man's natural role as master. Certain Imperial texts even make the biologically unlikely assertion that woman cannot accept Space Marine geneseed due to the gender difference.
Other women may serve alongside men as Guardsmen, laborers, farmers, scribes or even nobles but on most worlds there is a subtle attitude that women are expected to take a secondary role. They are usually relegated to traditionally female jobs such as cooking, cleaning, teaching or caring for children.
Only superb political connections, breeding, patronage, skill and luck can allow a woman to rise to the top in most Imperial organizations. Rest assured that those who do, are forces to be reckoned with."
"Disagreed. From the fluff I read, Imperium is not a gender egalitarian society. Women roles in it is mostly restricted to reproduction, since the perpetual wars of the imperium impose a high demand on nativity . Though my view of the Imperium might be in part tainted by Enki Bilal comic La foire aux immortels, which was an obvious influence for it (in the comic, women are put in large ''baby factory'' and continuously inseminated in order to produce as much soldiers as possible)"
"Happy that there was no orlock female. They wouldn't fit with the theme of the gang (outlaws biker are notoriously misogynistic). Same thing for Cawdor (religious fanatics tends to have a very conservative if not utillitarian (not in the philosophical sense) view on women, who are primarly seen as reproductive machines)."
Which is soooo far out of even being close to being in the ball park of 'correctness' for 40K let alone necromunda. The sheer size of the imperium makes any sweeping description of it's systems hilariously inadequate at the best of moments - there is guaranteed to be a world/system that matches the description you believe in, and uncountable amounts that fly in the face of it. Any consistent exposure to actual content, Black Library being your main IV drip, will tell you this. It's one of those self-evident truths, kinda like the fact the earth is a sphere. That's the truth of it - there isn't a whole lot that CAN'T fit into the imperium. So when people point and say "I don't like that, it's not 40K" I end up feeling obligated to remind them that they have no fething idea what they're saying. Oddly, no one ever thanks me for this, but I don't do it for the attention.
And again, as far as the history lesson, you are incorrect once more.
"Although the continuous development of capitalism as a system dates only from the 16th century, antecedents of capitalist institutions existed in the ancient world, and flourishing pockets of capitalism were present during the later European Middle Ages. The development of capitalism was spearheaded by the growth of the English cloth industry during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. The feature of this development that distinguished capitalism from previous systems was the use of the excess of production over consumption to enlarge productive capacity rather than to invest in economically unproductive enterprises, such as pyramids and cathedrals. This characteristic was encouraged by several historical events."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/capitalism in case you were wondering
So maybe roll back that personal vendetta, baseless opinion and relax, because I know what I'm talking about
But to keep things on track, I'll leave these here. Excellent studios making excellent products that'll work well for Necro, despite us also being given the option of just tunnel-rating it.
http://www.wargamestournaments.com/ These guys can even 3d print things for you, which is pretty nifty. Does Shapeways have anything like this? I skimmed em earlier and din't see anything.
https://warlayer.com/ Possibly the most impressive (read: spendy) of the three, these also look the best imo.
https://deathraydesigns.com/product-category/terrain/scifi/black-site-armageddon/
Furthermore, somebody posted a FB pic in a feed and it made me consider that there might be some potential in a alternate game mode for Necromunda based off of Player Unknown's Battlegrounds? Any thoughts on that? It might make for an incredibly fun one-shot event.
Lol, instead of relying on a gakky brittanica article,.maybe you should rely on the work of anthropologist and historians like mauss, polanyi or merkinson woods. Though, you manage to show even more of your confusion, since that little blurb explicitly state that it is not a historical constant
Anyway your argument is so simplisticly circular (necromunda was influenced by other things, so it can be influenced by anything), that it is not even worth debating it.
Btw half of the text you quoted in red wasnt written by me, it was taken from the article describing civilian life on this very site . The fact that you manage to miss such a critical point on such a small post is revealing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Irbis wrote: People are really that b-hurt over a single joke image?
Next time you'll tell me the Regimental Standard is all wrong because line #5256 from obscure book #296 totally contradicts the premise of the latest one
Albertorius wrote: The aforementioned prequels were done by the creator of said IP, not by "someone who owns the IP" though. So there's that.
Um, no. Just no. The original 3 movies were made by a team, including Lucas ex-wife, Marcia (perhaps the person most responsible for the success of A New Hope), his producer, Kurtz, and several other people who were able to tell Lucas 'no' and corrected vast majority of issues of the dumpster fire that was his original plan for SW. Sadly, as his ego (and purse) grew, he fired them all and replaced them with boot-licking yes-men who were fawning all other the dreck he wrote instead of, like the original crew, tell him "George, are you sure about this? Could definitely use some polish, or straight up cut".
It's telling out of original 6 movies, the most beloved one, ESB, is the one Lucas left for his original team to make and ignored for a year, while the prequels show at best one or two good ideas that were marred by atrocious writing and garbage characters like Jar Jar or Lucas' idea of Anakin/Padme and were left to die in bad movies. Too bad no one bothers to read the memories of people who made the original trilogy and gives the credit where it's due, but instead still praise someone who lucked into great team who polished said one or two good ideas into the original trilogy only to fade into thankless obscurity...
Nobody is butt hurt about the image. But it seems for some, only pointing out that we dont like an image cause its almost seem like a plagiat of another game, is blasphemy. Really annoying that we have a thought police that always feel the need to tell us that we shouldnt think a certain way
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/11 14:25:29
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
streetsamurai wrote: Are these made for order resin or metal? I might be the only one, but i like kal mini, and will probably order him if hes made of the former
I got some Kasrkin through the Made to Order and they were metal. I would suspect the same for these.
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
Those models really show their age. I'll pass on them, as nostalgias not strong enough to justify those models next to the newer models.
Good on GW for bringing some back. Hopefully they circulate the lot evenly in the months to come.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Irbis wrote: People are really that b-hurt over a single joke image?
Next time you'll tell me the Regimental Standard is all wrong because line #5256 from obscure book #296 totally contradicts the premise of the latest one
Albertorius wrote: The aforementioned prequels were done by the creator of said IP, not by "someone who owns the IP" though. So there's that.
Um, no. Just no. The original 3 movies were made by a team, including Lucas ex-wife, Marcia (perhaps the person most responsible for the success of A New Hope), his producer, Kurtz, and several other people who were able to tell Lucas 'no' and corrected vast majority of issues of the dumpster fire that was his original plan for SW. Sadly, as his ego (and purse) grew, he fired them all and replaced them with boot-licking yes-men who were fawning all other the dreck he wrote instead of, like the original crew, tell him "George, are you sure about this? Could definitely use some polish, or straight up cut".
It's telling out of original 6 movies, the most beloved one, ESB, is the one Lucas left for his original team to make and ignored for a year, while the prequels show at best one or two good ideas that were marred by atrocious writing and garbage characters like Jar Jar or Lucas' idea of Anakin/Padme and were left to die in bad movies. Too bad no one bothers to read the memories of people who made the original trilogy and gives the credit where it's due, but instead still praise someone who lucked into great team who polished said one or two good ideas into the original trilogy only to fade into thankless obscurity...
Holy crap, I thought I was the only one.
I hear it often as a joke mainly, "Lucas was the worst thing to happen to Star Wars."
Fortunately we don't have that problem with necromunda, the guy in charge is the kid who grew up watching star wars if we make that an metaphor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/11 16:30:12
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
a long time ago. Great fun.
)
Renegades - 
The sheer size of the imperium makes any sweeping description of it's systems hilariously inadequate at the best of moments - there is guaranteed to be a world/system that matches the description you believe in, and uncountable amounts that fly in the face of it. Any consistent exposure to actual content, Black Library being your main IV drip, will tell you this. It's one of those self-evident truths, kinda like the fact the earth is a sphere. 
That's the truth of it - there isn't a whole lot that CAN'T fit into the imperium. So when people point and say "I don't like that, it's not 40K" I end up feeling obligated to remind them that they have no fething idea what they're saying. Oddly, no one ever thanks me for this, but I don't do it for the attention. 
