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 bullyboy wrote:
OK, so you want your HWC knight to have a 4+ invuln, there is a 2CP strat in the new wraith host detachment that allows the spiritseer to swap his invuln with a wraith host model (I think mode, maybe unit?).. That's solid.

That does sound interesting, where did you see this? Is there more details available than what's on the community page?

kingheff wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, so you want your HWC knight to have a 4+ invuln, there is a 2CP strat in the new wraith host detachment that allows the spiritseer to swap his invuln with a wraith host model (I think mode, maybe unit?).. That's solid.

That does sound interesting, where did you see this? Is there more details available than what's on the community page?

in a Youtube video review of Vigilus book.

 bullyboy wrote:

kingheff wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, so you want your HWC knight to have a 4+ invuln, there is a 2CP strat in the new wraith host detachment that allows the spiritseer to swap his invuln with a wraith host model (I think mode, maybe unit?).. That's solid.

That does sound interesting, where did you see this? Is there more details available than what's on the community page?

in a Youtube video review of Vigilus book.

Didn't realise they were up, awesome, I'll take a look.

Sadlty the Wraith Host advantages affecting a Wraithknight are rare and almost nonexistent.

Since it's a LoW it will be on his own Detachment and unable to gain the word unless you pay an extra CP for himself alone.

We can get a new psy power wich is just making a wraith unit being on cover for amor saves (may be useful since it can be paired with Protect should the need arise.

And the relic it's just a Witchstaff that ignores demons invul saves.


I mean it's not great but you can pull some funny shenanigans on some Wraith units.

Maybe a supreme command detachment with a couple of spirit seers, a warlock, a unit of Wraithblades and the wraithknight?
I can see it working great with a blob of ten cannon guard though, a four plus invulnerable buffed by protect should be very annoying to clear.

I haven't played the overcosted wraithknight in 8th, to the point where I don't even know how super heavies fit in with other detachment!

I've gained about 50 points in my 1500 point list. I already had a 6th Ranger in a squad, so I can drop him and get a whole extra squad. I am actually quite pleased, that could be very useful.

I’m going to be swapping out one of my 5 ranger squads for a squad of 8 storm guardians with two flamers. They’re the same points now, and I’m curious if they’ll be better bubble wrap.

Supreme Command is the way it's going to be if you want a wraith host WK. It has one elite slot for a blade or guard, and the wraithseer has just taken a 25pt haircut, so is now very viable imo. D-cannon warlord hunter is 145pts now, and also a viable option for that invuln-swap strat.

But maybe the Hemlock is the most obvious beneficiary of that strat? Pretty dirty.

Or a 10 strong wraithsword / cannon / flamer unit.

I think the big sleeper unit with the wraith host detachement are wraithscythes. They can get a 4++ or even 3++. +1 attack makes them pretty decent in melee. And then they can just fall back and flame again in your turn. Pretty nice. They probably outfight any wraithblades in damage when you combine flame & melee vs just melee of the blades. And they are cheaper than the axes.

I've had plenty of joy with that, but you need to avoid getting encircled. But yeah, even though I always warn people I can fall back and still fire, people's faces when it happens are generally hilarious.

Wraithseer price cost it's unchanged since previous CA, can be fun but still unless they update the Datasheet it's a 11-12 wounds character with T7 (it didn't get the T boost from codex)

Windriders are also a kind of a tactical surprise unit, running a full 9 man squad with twin catapults it's just 29 points more than a guardian bomb, and with the insane mobility we can play with keeping it out of LoS in the rear or just webway drop them depending on enemy and terrain.

People's opinions on the Shining Spears +3pts? Seems pretty fair to me, and won't stop me from taking my newly-converted spears, personally.

I can see a list of three squads of nine windriders 486 pts backed by three squds of rangers or avengers for troops. 27 Biel tan windriders kill 20 odd marines and double that of guard according to mathhammer. 54 T4 wounds on 27 bikes gives reasonable resilience by eldar standards and good board control plus they are very difficult to pin down because of fly. With their speed they should get the first big round of shooting too before getting in rapid return fire range.

I think spears are still in a perfectly fine position. Honestly they'd still be competitive at +5pts, and I feel we got off easy considering their prevalence in the competitive scene and the fact that they're resin.

Saim-Hann scatter laser windriders are going to be the way to go I think. The points cut on the SL has made it very viable and a 36" range and moving without penalty makes them great kiters and objective takers/holders.

Spears are definitely fine, they're expensive but strong. Windriders are less strong but fairly priced now so very viable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scatter lasers for saim Han and twin catapults for everyone else, especially Biel tan.

A combined punch of Riders for long range horde suppression and Spears for close in anti-monster/tank, backed by Vypers/Grav tanks for a fully zoomy force has potential methinks.

It'll be CP starved, but one can always drop down a few barebones Ranger teams for objective camping and Battallion fill-outs.

Sterling191 wrote:
A combined punch of Riders for long range horde suppression and Spears for close in anti-monster/tank, backed by Vypers/Grav tanks for a fully zoomy force has potential methinks.

It'll be CP starved, but one can always drop down a few barebones Ranger teams for objective camping and Battallion fill-outs.

Yeah, for me this opens up potential for an Outrider, but it'll still require an Alaitoc Battalion with Rangers for CPs.
Until Battalions are brought back down to 3CPs and Battle Forged grants 5CPs like it SHOULD BE, Battalions will remain mandatory and thus Wildrider hosts will remain casual lists only

With the drop on Twin Cats, there is now an 8ppm difference between Twin-cat WRs and Shuricannon WRs.
Given the range difference and WRs not wanting to get too close, I still think Shuricannons are worth it, but at 8ppm less, Twin-cat WRs are at least appealing.

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 Galef wrote:


With the drop on Twin Cats, there is now an 8ppm difference between Twin-cat WRs and Shuricannon WRs.
Given the range difference and WRs not wanting to get too close, I still think Shuricannons are worth it, but at 8ppm less, Twin-cat WRs are at least appealing.

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I was thinking more Saim-Han Scatbikes for hordesweeping, with Alaitoc Vypers/Falcons (in the same battalion as the Rangers) for long-range fire support (if I'm mathing it out right, a Starcannon Falcon is down to 125 points, while a twin Shuricannon Vyper is at 60), and Spears for close-in mulching.

I still feel like Shuricannons are better than Scatter lasers, even Saim-Hann Scatterlasers.
The slight chance to get AP-3 evens out the extra shot per model and Shuricannons allow the WRs to Advance and still fire, which has more tactical uses (like getting the fudge out of a bad situation)
It's nice that it's actually priced accordingly now, but for only 3ppm more, I'd rather not be forced to be Saim-Hann just to break even.

If Alaitoc gets FAQ'd to provide a cover bonus instead, it might be worth it to take Saim-Hann, but even as cover, it's a better trait for WRs that Saim-Hann, sadly.
And if I am not taking them as Alaitoc, I may as well take them as Biel-tan with just Twin-cats and use them as suicide units.

The only unit I would even want to be Saim-hann is an Autarch Skyrunner with Laser lance and Reaper launcher, because it's the only unit that gets both bonuses.

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 Lord Perversor wrote:
Sadlty the Wraith Host advantages affecting a Wraithknight are rare and almost nonexistent.

Since it's a LoW it will be on his own Detachment and unable to gain the word unless you pay an extra CP for himself alone.

We can get a new psy power wich is just making a wraith unit being on cover for amor saves (may be useful since it can be paired with Protect should the need arise.

And the relic it's just a Witchstaff that ignores demons invul saves.


I mean it's not great but you can pull some funny shenanigans on some Wraith units.

This is not true.

You can have everything you need out of this detachment by taking a supreme command with one of your HQs being a spiritseer and the LOW being a WK. You can even throw a unit of Wraithguard or Wraithblades in there if you're feeling spicy, it's got an elite slot.

don't bother with the relic, only take the WL trait if you also want the wraithblades and you want to have it on a farseer or something, totally skip the relic unless playing daemons.

Boom, everything you want to have out of the wraith host, for the low cost of 2 extra HQs (and our HQs are both inexpensive and excellent.) Enjoy a double cannon WK with an invuln and perma-cover.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:
Sadlty the Wraith Host advantages affecting a Wraithknight are rare and almost nonexistent.

Since it's a LoW it will be on his own Detachment and unable to gain the word unless you pay an extra CP for himself alone.

We can get a new psy power wich is just making a wraith unit being on cover for amor saves (may be useful since it can be paired with Protect should the need arise.

And the relic it's just a Witchstaff that ignores demons invul saves.


I mean it's not great but you can pull some funny shenanigans on some Wraith units.

This is not true.

You can have everything you need out of this detachment by taking a supreme command with one of your HQs being a spiritseer and the LOW being a WK. You can even throw a unit of Wraithguard or Wraithblades in there if you're feeling spicy, it's got an elite slot.

don't bother with the relic, only take the WL trait if you also want the wraithblades and you want to have it on a farseer or something, totally skip the relic unless playing daemons.

Boom, everything you want to have out of the wraith host, for the low cost of 2 extra HQs (and our HQs are both inexpensive and excellent.) Enjoy a double cannon WK with an invuln and perma-cover.

Yep i totally forgot supreme allow a LoW to be part of it, but i must say it sadden me most of our Wraith units didn't get anything more fancy than just melee boost

On the other hand i have been revising the points and weapons and i'm tempted in try the 3x Vaul's with vibro cannon, as a cheap albeit kinda fixed alternative to reapers for long range firepower since you get for just 120p an almost parallel firepower as a 4-5 man Reaper unit with more durability and with high chance 2nd and 3rd platform can wound far easier than reapers on same target.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:
Sadlty the Wraith Host advantages affecting a Wraithknight are rare and almost nonexistent.

Since it's a LoW it will be on his own Detachment and unable to gain the word unless you pay an extra CP for himself alone.

We can get a new psy power wich is just making a wraith unit being on cover for amor saves (may be useful since it can be paired with Protect should the need arise.

And the relic it's just a Witchstaff that ignores demons invul saves.


I mean it's not great but you can pull some funny shenanigans on some Wraith units.

This is not true.

You can have everything you need out of this detachment by taking a supreme command with one of your HQs being a spiritseer and the LOW being a WK. You can even throw a unit of Wraithguard or Wraithblades in there if you're feeling spicy, it's got an elite slot.

don't bother with the relic, only take the WL trait if you also want the wraithblades and you want to have it on a farseer or something, totally skip the relic unless playing daemons.

Boom, everything you want to have out of the wraith host, for the low cost of 2 extra HQs (and our HQs are both inexpensive and excellent.) Enjoy a double cannon WK with an invuln and perma-cover.

Yep i totally forgot supreme allow a LoW to be part of it, but i must say it sadden me most of our Wraith units didn't get anything more fancy than just melee boost

On the other hand i have been revising the points and weapons and i'm tempted in try the 3x Vaul's with vibro cannon, as a cheap albeit kinda fixed alternative to reapers for long range firepower since you get for just 120p an almost parallel firepower as a 4-5 man Reaper unit with more durability and with high chance 2nd and 3rd platform can wound far easier than reapers on same target.

Well, unless you want them to be the focus of the detachment, in which case they can have 4++/permacover. That's pretty nice for any wraith unit. WWP a unit of wraithguard onto the battlefield and give them 2+/4++, watch your opponent try to kill them.

I think the play would be a supreme detachment with 2x Spiritseers, a Farseer, and a 10 man wraith unit. Fully amped up, you could get a unit to 2+/3++/5+++ (plus cover potential). That is a really tough unit to take down. Now the question is whether you'd take Blades or Guard?

Question for the group: If you were set on taking 3 WKs in an army, which combination would you take?
So far, the points decreases open up the potential for a decent Battalion + Super Heavy detachment. That's 11CP, which is 1 more than my typical list.

I'd like to take 3 Skyrunner Charaters (1 Farseer + 2 Autarchs) with minimum Troops.
The idea would be for the Farseer to Fortune one of the WKs and the Autarchs to support the other 2.

I'm not interesting in the Sword WK as it is no longer that much cheaper than the Suncannon WK. Nor am I sold on the HWC one since it is not the most expensive and has no invul.
I am actually thinking 2 Suncannon WKs with 1 Skathach WK with 2 Deathshroud cannons
The Suncannon WKs can start on the table, each with an Autarch escort and the Skathach WK can drop in turn 2 and be Fortuned.
And of course, the Farseer would have Doom.

Any thoughts?

Also, what would you think of 2 Inferno lance WKs against a Knight list? 1 Inferno Lance + Shield on each Worth it, or is a single Deathshroufn cannon better (especially with Doom)

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 Galef wrote:
Question for the group: If you were set on taking 3 WKs in an army, which combination would you take?
So far, the points decreases open up the potential for a decent Battalion + Super Heavy detachment. That's 11CP, which is 1 more than my typical list.

I'd like to take 3 Skyrunner Charaters (1 Farseer + 2 Autarchs) with minimum Troops.
The idea would be for the Farseer to Fortune one of the WKs and the Autarchs to support the other 2.

I'm not interesting in the Sword WK as it is no longer that much cheaper than the Suncannon WK. Nor am I sold on the HWC one since it is not the most expensive and has no invul.
I am actually thinking 2 Suncannon WKs with 1 Skathach WK with 2 Deathshroud cannons
The Suncannon WKs can start on the table, each with an Autarch escort and the Skathach WK can drop in turn 2 and be Fortuned.
And of course, the Farseer would have Doom.

Any thoughts?

Also, what would you think of 2 Inferno lance WKs against a Knight list? 1 Inferno Lance + Shield on each Worth it, or is a single Deathshroufn cannon better (especially with Doom)

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I'd want to run at least one in a Spirit Host Detachment with a Spiritseer, but if you have to stick to a 3 detachment limit, that wouldn't work for you as you want three and you'd only be able to get 5CP by running two Supreme Commands with a Aux Superheavy. Are you constrained by list building restrictions?

 mokoshkana wrote:

Spoiler:

 Galef wrote:
Question for the group: If you were set on taking 3 WKs in an army, which combination would you take?
So far, the points decreases open up the potential for a decent Battalion + Super Heavy detachment. That's 11CP, which is 1 more than my typical list.

I'd like to take 3 Skyrunner Charaters (1 Farseer + 2 Autarchs) with minimum Troops.
The idea would be for the Farseer to Fortune one of the WKs and the Autarchs to support the other 2.

I'm not interesting in the Sword WK as it is no longer that much cheaper than the Suncannon WK. Nor am I sold on the HWC one since it is not the most expensive and has no invul.
I am actually thinking 2 Suncannon WKs with 1 Skathach WK with 2 Deathshroud cannons
The Suncannon WKs can start on the table, each with an Autarch escort and the Skathach WK can drop in turn 2 and be Fortuned.
And of course, the Farseer would have Doom.

Any thoughts?

Also, what would you think of 2 Inferno lance WKs against a Knight list? 1 Inferno Lance + Shield on each Worth it, or is a single Deathshroufn cannon better (especially with Doom)

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I'd want to run at least one in a Spirit Host Detachment with a Spiritseer, but if you have to stick to a 3 detachment limit, that wouldn't work for you as you want three and you'd only be able to get 5CP by running two Supreme Commands with a Aux Superheavy. Are you constrained by list building restrictions?

Yes, I'd prefer only 3 detachments and no less than 10CPs
The Skathach WKs being ~500pts seem fairly decent, but I don't think I'd do more than 1. Mostly because that paints a pretty big target on the 1 WK that would start on the table.
I think 2 on the table and 1 Skathach is the sweet spot

Ideally, this list would start with 2 WKs and the rest Characters, so the opponent has no other targets to fire on. It would also be Alaitoc with Rangers dropping near objectives later. Even tempted to let my opponent go first if possible to use Prepared Positions. 2 WKs with -1 to be hit and +1 cover and 5++ might be hard to chew through. Then the third on drops in to delete a unit or two.

Shoulder guns are also a must, and I am thinking Scatter lasers on all of them for some cheap dakka. Maybe Shuricannons on the SWK to mess with Doom. Or should I go all out with Starcannons?

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If it were me I'd go for three iyanden sword and board. Throw in three wraithlords, give everyone two shuriken cannons. Advance everything up to try for the turn two charges. Psytronome as much as possible. Maybe not the strongest but watching your opponent trying to take down that much T8 wraithbone should be entertaining.

I don't see any point in the Sword/Board WK since it's only 30pts less than the Suncannon WK. Both get 5++ and Titanic feet (which is where the real melee is).
It might be worth swapping them against an IK list, but otherwise, I just don't see why you would drop that much needed dakka.

I wish you could take 1 HWC + Shield. I'd take 2 of those all day.

 grouchoben wrote:
People's opinions on the Shining Spears +3pts? Seems pretty fair to me, and won't stop me from taking my newly-converted spears, personally.

IMO they still are cheaper than they should be, only a 3pt increase is 100% ok with me