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Rather than diving all over the points changes in Chapter Approved I've been mulling over the new missions and currently have the following things I'm thinking on.

1, With the change from First Blood to First Strike, I'm wondering if a Webway Portal in your own deployment zone could actually be worth it to shelter the squishy parts of your force for that one turn?

2, Could going second now actually be a more potent choice between being better setup to dash for Linebreaker and being able to react better with reserves?

3, When playing Maelstrom of War, what Tactical Objectives would people now cut from their deck?

Wonder what anyone else's thoughts on the new missions are.

 admironheart wrote:

What would you put in the Falcons if you took them? It seems a waste not to utilize the transport option.....still a potent list.

Probably something cheap like MSU Dire Avengers. They can take shelter early and emerge later to take objectives or clear hordes as needed. Between Battle Focus and 18" range, they have a decent threat radius from the Falcon. You can also use them to hide buffing characters potentially although not on their own.

kingheff wrote:
Hornets with twin hornet lasers look very good to me now. Long range firepower that's great against anything except tanks etc, tough enough chassis for 110 pts each? Effectively three star cannons for the price of two.

?
You meant 3 star cannons for the price of 4 ? The hornet pulse laser cost 2 times the price of a star cannon.

I think Falcons are battletanks first, and their transport cap is ancellary. If the Falcon moves, it gets -1 to hit, which really hurts it's PulseLaser, probably the other weapon too. And CTM only lets you shoot at the closest - which is unlikely to be what you want to put that PulseLaser into.

As crappy as it is, this usually means I want my Falcon to stay stationary. Not a very Eldar thing to do, but it is what it is.

The biggest issue I have with non-Shuriken Canon Hornets is that you have to make a choice. Advance and get the -1 to hit, or stay still and shoot with the heavy weapons. You could move and shoot with the -1 penalty, but, at the point you might as well advance and take the -1 penalty with the Shuriken instead, whilst gaining the defensive buff.
For 90 points you get 6 Shuriken Cannon shots, hitting on 4’s but on a platform that then has a base -2 to hit (-3 if you’re Alaitoc).

dhallnet wrote:

kingheff wrote:
Hornets with twin hornet lasers look very good to me now. Long range firepower that's great against anything except tanks etc, tough enough chassis for 110 pts each? Effectively three star cannons for the price of two.

?
You meant 3 star cannons for the price of 4 ? The hornet pulse laser cost 2 times the price of a star cannon.

Sorry, complete brain fart on my part! I blame it on me writing it at 6am and not having a coffee yet...
I still think they're a decent option at that price though.

What is best unit to put in Falcons?

I assume you also have Wave Serpents on the field with more in your face units.

So you have the spot for 6 models....Other than Dire Avengers what do you put in them?
DA = 3" Embark, 7" move, d6 Assault, + 18 range = 29" - 35" threat.

something better?

Honestly DAs are the only reasonable choice. They are cheap and don't make Falcon more of a threat, have decent enough range and can help fill a Brigade.

 admironheart wrote:
What is best unit to put in Falcons?

I assume you also have Wave Serpents on the field with more in your face units.

So you have the spot for 6 models....Other than Dire Avengers what do you put in them?
DA = 3" Embark, 7" move, d6 Assault, + 18 range = 29" - 35" threat.

something better?

Corsairs with a heavy weapon.

Dark reapers, I often hide a unit of five inside a falcon to shield them from fire. They both want to be far back.
I've had some success with banshees too. The free 3" disembark can help with a first turn charge, especially if going second.

I am toying with the following list after seeing one that did really well in ETC. Following the recent reduction in Jetbike cost plus the ETC cover rules I think it can do really well. CP shortage is what bothers me. What do you think?

Eldar [2000pts]
Outrider Detachment +1CP [434pts]
Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host

HQ
Autarch Skyrunner [112pts]
Selections: 2: An Eye on Distant Events, Craftworlds Warlord, Fusion Pistol, The Novalance of Saim-Hann, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fast Attack
Windriders [92pts]
4x Windrider - Scatter Laser
Selections: 4x Scatter Laser

Windriders [115pts]
5x Windrider - Scatter Laser
Selections: 5x Scatter Laser

Windriders [115pts]
5x Windrider - Scatter Laser
Selections: 5x Scatter Laser
-----------------------------------
Spearhead Detachment +1CP [936pts]
Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

HQ
Eldrad Ulthran [135pts]
Selections: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

Heavy Support
Dark Reapers [170pts]
4x Dark Reaper 4x Reaper Launcher
Dark Reaper Exarch Reaper Launcher

Dark Reapers [170pts]
4x Dark Reaper 4x Reaper Launcher
Dark Reaper Exarch Reaper Launcher

Fire Prism [157pts]
Selections: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [157pts]
Selections: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent [147pts] Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon

-----------------------------------
Air Wing Detachment +1CP [630pts]
Craftworld Attribute Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Flyer
Hemlock Wraithfighter [210pts] 2. Embolden/Horrify, Spirit Stones
Hemlock Wraithfighter [210pts] 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones
Hemlock Wraithfighter [210pts] 5. Quicken/Restrain, Spirit Stones

Not sure 6 command points is enough as you stated but the list looks good and very competitive. Why Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned for the Spearhead? To get Eldrad?

Can I ask people about Ulthwe Avatar & Storm Guardians? I'm close to pulling the trigger on the bitz I'd need for a stack of 24 SGs. I know it's easy to overestimate unit efficacy with CWE, as we tend to work on the basis of jinx/doom/other buffs which, in reality, can be hard to chain together, and only work on one or a few units. But 366pts buys you 24 troops with morale immunity, and a good unit to receive those buffs, in a faction that can easily give them 2+ to hit, alongside the standard stuff. And of course the delicious, melt-ing-your-mouth centre of molten Avatar goodness.

The new CA missions all seem to favour boots on ground, and troops in particular, so this is looking more and more like a decent option to me for a central push unit.

What would you all advise to complement this stack of an Avatar + 1 or 2 maxed out SG morale-immune blobs?

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Not sure 6 command points is enough as you stated but the list looks good and very competitive. Why Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned for the Spearhead? To get Eldrad?

Yes cause of Eldrad.

Possible changes would be to have the Reapers in one squad and drop the serpant and Eldrad and get 3x6 rangers and a skyrunner farseer plus a skyrunner warlock.

More CPs that way but the reapers will not be safe inside the serpant if I loose first round.

 grouchoben wrote:
What would you all advise to complement this stack of an Avatar + 1 or 2 maxed out SG morale-immune blobs?

Isn't that essentially playing Tyranids? Was kind of inevitable people would want to do it with the point drops, but before pulling that trigger as you say I'd actually check to see if you wouldn't be better off doing such mob playstyle with a different faction that doesn't require a swarm of bitz.

Storm Guardians are still garbage even with the points drop, unless you want to use them as cheap objective holders, but even then, why not splurge for DA? For 7 more points, you lose 2 wounds, but pick up a better save (Exarch has a 4++) and much better base weapons. Storm Guardians won't do anything in combat, if they even make it, without significant buffs that could be better used elsewhere.

I'm used to running Tzaangor + cultist blobs in TS armies, so I'm quite comfortable with the idea of having to stack buffs & strats in order to unlock a blob's potential.

4++/6+++ for 1cp is a bargain, for example, and makes them pretty decent defensively.

You lose a shot from the catapult changing to pistol, but range is the same, and their price drops by 2ppm model which is a reallllly big deal on blob units. There are also some very punchy combos that seem viable to me, as Warlocks seem to have a lot of CC buff powers....

For example a 24-guardian unit with a Storm of Blades Autarch, using Supreme Disdain & Black Guardians strats, and benefiting from Enhance, gives you an average of 64 hits, 21 of them at -1ap, with the cost being a cast and 2cp on 2 strats. That knight was jinxed and doomed already, right? Well, your guardians just did 11.7 damage to it in CC. ... That's all very good for a 144pt unit.

They ain't wyches but I want to run pure CWE, and I think they might take a few opponents by surprise.

Well with Ulthwe Black Guardian strat.... Storm Guardians can be devastating. Sure it is a lot of Resources...It is very nice to see a unit of genestealers cut down by storm guardians b4 they get to attack.

20 Storm Guardians with Chainswords. 120 points
Doom on target
Autarch nearby....easy enough
Cast Enhance on Storm Guardians
Charge
That is 40 attacks
Disdain Strategem
Black Guardian Strategem

Hit on 2+. reroll 1's and exploding attack rolls on 4+
39 base hits,,21.5 exploding hits
= 45 saves on T3
= 33 saves on T4/T5
=18 saves on T6 and higher

for a 120 point unit getting a standard 2 CP plus 1 aura + psychic support....which is pretty standard stuff....that is a lot of possible wounds.

Dissie Ravagers are a competitive choice, 2 War Walkers with Star Cannons are pretty similar now.
I see several downsides;
Slower, and if you move you have bs4
one shot less
Random d3 damage

The obvious adavantage is that they are Eldar so you won't need an Archon.
They fill a similar role as Dark Reapers, so is there an upside if you go for War Walkers.?

 mokoshkana wrote:
Storm Guardians are still garbage even with the points drop, unless you want to use them as cheap objective holders, but even then, why not splurge for DA? For 7 more points, you lose 2 wounds, but pick up a better save (Exarch has a 4++) and much better base weapons. Storm Guardians won't do anything in combat, if they even make it, without significant buffs that could be better used elsewhere.

Because you can't buff-stack DAs into a unit that can one-bang a DP in CC. I love DAs, from my limited experience of them (I'm pretty new to CWE), but they do a very different job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as to garbage? Cultists are 1 point cheaper. They will still see a lot of play on top tables. I think SGs at 6ppm might turn out to be a sleeper hit, is all.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
Dissie Ravagers are a competitive choice, 2 War Walkers with Star Cannons are pretty similar now.
I see several downsides;
Slower, and if you move you have bs4
one shot less
Random d3 damage

The obvious adavantage is that they are Eldar so you won't need an Archon.
They fill a similar role as Dark Reapers, so is there an upside if you go for War Walkers.?

Walkers can innately deep strike. They also dont die to a minor breeze.

 admironheart wrote:
Well with Ulthwe Black Guardian strat.... Storm Guardians can be devastating. Sure it is a lot of Resources...It is very nice to see a unit of genestealers cut down by storm guardians b4 they get to attack.

20 Storm Guardians with Chainswords. 120 points
Doom on target
Autarch nearby....easy enough
Cast Enhance on Storm Guardians
Charge
That is 40 attacks
Disdain Strategem
Black Guardian Strategem

Hit on 2+. reroll 1's and exploding attack rolls on 4+
39 base hits,,21.5 exploding hits
= 45 saves on T3
= 33 saves on T4/T5
=18 saves on T6 and higher

for a 120 point unit getting a standard 2 CP plus 1 aura + psychic support....which is pretty standard stuff....that is a lot of possible wounds.

Yeah that's all well and good in a vacuum, but not quite as likely in practice. Are you marching them across the field? They'll likely get shot off the board or you're going to spend 2CP to keep them alive before they ever get into combat. Deep striking them? You're going to have to burn a CP to make that charge. Enhance is WC 7, so there is another possible command point there. Doom is likely wasted on the target you're trying to stab to death, unless you're shooting it first, which likely makes your charge more difficult if your opponent is thinking tactically. Could they be fun as a gimmick once or twice, sure. But I can think of much better ways to spend my points that don't rely on a bunch of CP and psychic powers to work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grouchoben wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
Storm Guardians are still garbage even with the points drop, unless you want to use them as cheap objective holders, but even then, why not splurge for DA? For 7 more points, you lose 2 wounds, but pick up a better save (Exarch has a 4++) and much better base weapons. Storm Guardians won't do anything in combat, if they even make it, without significant buffs that could be better used elsewhere.

Because you can't buff-stack DAs into a unit that can one-bang a DP in CC. I love DAs, from my limited experience of them (I'm pretty new to CWE), but they do a very different job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as to garbage? Cultists are 1 point cheaper. They will still see a lot of play on top tables. I think SGs at 6ppm might turn out to be a sleeper hit, is all.

Cultists are great because the other CSM troop (Space Marines) is almost thrice the cost without thrice the benefit.

There is synergy in Storm Guardians, but for me, the cost to make them to viable is too much.

 mokoshkana wrote:

Yeah that's all well and good in a vacuum, but not quite as likely in practice. Are you marching them across the field? They'll likely get shot off the board or you're going to spend 2CP to keep them alive before they ever get into combat. Deep striking them? You're going to have to burn a CP to make that charge. Enhance is WC 7, so there is another possible command point there. Doom is likely wasted on the target you're trying to stab to death, unless you're shooting it first, which likely makes your charge more difficult if your opponent is thinking tactically. Could they be fun as a gimmick once or twice, sure. But I can think of much better ways to spend my points that don't rely on a bunch of CP and psychic powers to work.
There is synergy in Storm Guardians, but for me, the cost to make them to viable is too much.

Depends on your playstyle. He mentioned them in an Avatar blob. I am not convinced a 30 to 40 blob costing over 400 points is worth it other than to soak up fire and to slow the enemy entering an area ot the battlefield is still worth it.

If and when I use SG it is a 114 point screen (19 models) PLEEEEASE shoot at them rather than my other units like dark reapers. What they are is a counter assault unit to save my gunline.

In my new list they are only 8 models and not much of a threat....but they are there to screen my characters. Not much of a screen but one that has worked as I have a whole lot of other threats in the same locale that keeps them under the radar....and I need bodies to keep my farseer and autarch from getting targeted.

"If and when I use SG it is a 114 point screen (19 models) PLEEEEASE shoot at them rather than my other units like dark reapers. What they are is a counter assault unit to save my gunline."

Exactly! If they're shooting at my SG blob they are shooting at a) the cheapest models on my roster and b) a 4++/6+++ unit with zero morale issues. It's a sizeable victory if my opponent targets the SGs instead of the reapers, DAs, Shining Spears, etc.

 grouchoben wrote:
"If and when I use SG it is a 114 point screen (19 models) PLEEEEASE shoot at them rather than my other units like dark reapers. What they are is a counter assault unit to save my gunline."

Exactly! If they're shooting at my SG blob they are shooting at a) the cheapest models on my roster and b) a 4++/6+++ unit with zero morale issues. It's a sizeable victory if my opponent targets the SGs instead of the reapers, DAs, Shining Spears, etc.

admironheart proposed a much different use for his storm guardians. He is running them barebones as a screen, while you are talking about buffing them to oblivion to make them viable. If you are moving them up the board, then the support has to move with them, which opens up options for your opponent. I'd rather invest that 114 points into something more worthwhile myself. That's just about two units of rangers or two units of DA to hold objects, screen, and provide small arms fire support. Additionally, it could be two Vypers or two units of stock Windriders to provide harassing units. I'm just saying there are better options. If you're going to push them up the field to do some damage, I'd rather spend the points on Wraithblades with shields. With that same psychic support, they can get to 2+/3++/5+++ and at three wounds each, that is vastly more survivable. Once they hit your enemies lines, they can actually do some serious damage as well.

I think I remember seeing somewhere that arriving from cloudstrike with a scorpion, for example, counts as its highest move category for determining the invulnerable save. Can't find anything about it, can anyone point me to a source or did I just imagine that?

Fair enough mokoshkana. Wraithblades are indeed great in cc when buffed, but they aren't troops, have zero guns, need transports, and cost twice as much. Against something like screens, genestealers, blobs, etc., the SGs are going to seriously outperform them too. Also, it's not the same psychic support - my scenario only required one cast from a warlock - yours requires two, one from a farseer, one from a warlock. WGs also hate mortal wound spam, whereas SGs are an ideal soak unit to deal with it.

But at least I'm glad we can agree that SGs are worth talking about in the same conversation as wraithblades at least. I'm proxying a 24-model blob in lots of games this week, 44 guardians in total! Will report back on how they fare.

For those that run Soups, particularly Harlies on bikes with Eldar, what do you do regarding HQs for them?

Skyweavers are great, adding a HQ can be hard though. I want to run a very mobile army, almost everything on bikes. but I'm not sure if a foot HQ will keep up. Looking at a Shadowseer, the Eldar HQs will be Skyrunners.

Adding a Troupe and a Transport will cost ~200pts, 300pts with the HQ, although not a complete tax as they could be effective on their own. I'd prefer not to include them and put the pts somewhere else.

Do people have problems with foot harlies in a mobile force? I'm worried they will be left behind/easy to pick off.

I just add in 1 Shadowseer, she gives you Quickening for that unit basically. I think troupes are a complete waste of space, i have a quin army and i dont even want to play with troupes. Wyches are literally 1/2 the points and are better in every way other than FP spam.

Shadowseer, 6 Skyweavers, done.

I'm looking for some feedback between two 1,250pt army lists for an upcoming tournament.

They were designed as a Take All Comers list, and both share the same core, however one has more on-board pretense and mobility whereas the other has more firepower.

I am trying to figure out which would be the better pick for an upcoming tournament in the near future, and would very much appreciate your feedback.

If anything, I'd appreciate if you guys took at look and gave me your first impressions of which armylist looks "scarier" to fight against.

Thank you.