Codex: Eldar Craftworlds - A Portal Opens, The Craftworlds Emerge, Battle Begins!

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**admironheart**

Yes that is how I read it as well. The change in the FAQ was that the Codex no longer permits an Avenger Shuriken Catapult upgrade, but the Skyrunner had the Twin Shuriken on the bike. This Way the Skyrunner can use it as well.

{If they did not add it in the FAQ for that reason I would say the bike has the Twin Shuriken but the Autarch is 'not carrying' for the purpose of the relic. }Thankfully the intent is clear now.

**Reemule**

How does Karandras and the Striking Scorpions Shadow Strike work? (+1 to hit a unit in cover)

Only in Shooting?

In Shooting and in HTH?

**Shadenuat**

GW never clarified but my guess intent is it works like Ork Commandos rule which is one that makes more sense raw wise.

Should work for both melee and shooting.

**admironheart**

Playing my first ITC tournament. Will only have 1 practice game beforehand with the finished list. I just finished the Magnets today.

I have only played a variation of the list twice. Still learning it.

So my practice game will be vs a Loyal 32 and 3 Knights.

What should I look for in this game?

What should I look out for in the Tournament?

I have not played Tau this edition, Orks, Tzeench or GSC.

I almost tabled a Dark Eldar Army with my previous list but he still won 18 CP to 14 CP (no ITC, it was Maelstrom). I got gak for cards and I forgot a lot of stuff and poor first turn....he offered me to use his dice lol.

What else should I watch out for.

My list:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reemule wrote:
How does Karandras and the Striking Scorpions Shadow Strike work? (+1 to hit a unit in cover)

Only in Shooting?

In Shooting and in HTH?

Keep in mind that the unit if within range get exploding attacks if the modified roll is 6+. With a target in cover you need to roll a 5 or better. With Enhance from a Warlock you could make that a 4+ die roll.

The same stacking abilities work best with Ulthwe's Black Guardian Strategem, Enhance, and Supreme Disdain. Give the Guardians Chainswords and they now get exploding attacks on a 4+ with all effects in play.

The elder have some nice tricks ... but like every edition you have to work to get the most out of it. Some are easy some are difficult. Find what you can master and like and focus on building up those combos.

**Pain4Pleasure**

What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

**admironheart**

We are having a discussion in YMDC thread about Quicken/Restrain.

The short of it is that most players seem to halve the Move Characteristic then you add an advance roll on the affected unit.

Deeper reading of the FAQ and the Advance Rules seem to show that the Move Characteristic BECOMES a different VALUE after an Advance.

So how do you guys play it and what do you think?

Does Restrain work like this:
Unit move is 6 ...his advance is 6

Does Restrain give him a end result of 9 or 6?

**Bharring**

Keep in mind that while you can get Scorps with exploding attacks on 4+ against units in cover, it's only a 5+ against units not in cover. But you're paying a lot more points for a 33%/50% increase in CC hits - you're typically better off taking more Scorpions instead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
"What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got."

Everyone is. Except for other Knights, Slamginus, or Harlie Bikers w/Doom. There's another thread devoted to this, and Doom is the only Craftworld bit to show up in the discussion so far.

**Sterling191**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

**Kdash**

admironheart wrote:
We are having a discussion in YMDC thread about Quicken/Restrain.

The short of it is that most players seem to halve the Move Characteristic then you add an advance roll on the affected unit.

Deeper reading of the FAQ and the Advance Rules seem to show that the Move Characteristic BECOMES a different VALUE after an Advance.

So how do you guys play it and what do you think?

Does Restrain work like this:
Unit move is 6 ...his advance is 6

Does Restrain give him a end result of 9 or 6?

Personally, i see it as advancing changes your base move characteristic from x to x+y=z. As such, restrain would then half z rounding up (i think up anyway)

But, i can also see it being the other way around as it's less likely you'll end up with half an inch of movement somewhere along the line, and therefore simpler.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Sterling191 wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

So
Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

**Horst**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

So
Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

Well, if you're going as competitive as possible, Harlequin Skyweavers w/ Haywire launchers are almost an auto-include to counter Knights. They will tear through a doomed Castellan like it's tissue paper.

**Sterling191**

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

Thats not accurate. You're just going to need new tactics.

DW + IK is almost certainly not going to have psyker support. And if they're running MSU or combat squadded Veteran teams, things like Executioner, and other sources of mortal wounds are gonna scythe right through them. Mortals are the achilles heel you need to exploit.

**Galef**

And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

**Reemule**

On your Castellan issue.

Make sure he isn’t using MSR unless he is a Questor Mechanicus. Also make sure he is using it only at the start of the phase. Then make sure your forcing him to ROS to burn CP. Next Make sure if he is Raven and if he is using Order of Companions he is spending the 3CP. Him using Deathwatch, and the Castellan is him being low on CP, and the Castellan is a CP hog. Make that cost him. A Castellan without CP to burn is a much different target. Get it below 14 wounds and No CP left, its about much less effective in the game.

**mokoshkana**

Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

Weight of dice wins the day!

**Sterling191**

mokoshkana wrote:
Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-
Weight of dice wins the day!

You're gonna need a *lot* of dice though. If they're a smart DW player they'll have put Terminators in their Vet teams to soak AP0 weapons. If my napkin math is accurate, it's gonna take half a dozen unmoved scatbikes with an Autarch aura to punch through each Terminator. And that still leaves the remaining 9 Storm Shield lads in the team alive and kicking (and if in cover getting their own 2+ base armor save).

**mokoshkana**

Sterling191 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-
Weight of dice wins the day!

You're gonna need a *lot* of dice though. If they're a smart DW player they'll have put Terminators in their Vet teams to soak AP0 weapons. If my napkin math is accurate, it's gonna take half a dozen unmoved scatbikes with an Autarch aura to punch through each Terminator. And that still leaves the remaining 9 Storm Shield lads in the team alive and kicking (and if in cover getting their own 2+ base armor save).

Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

**Sterling191**

mokoshkana wrote:
Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

SIA will let them punch out to 30" with storm bolters at AP -1.

**mokoshkana**

Sterling191 wrote:
mokoshkana wrote:
Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

SIA will let them punch out to 30" with storm bolters at AP -1.

Forgot about the extended range, but CWE can still kite them. Force them to move ensures they don't get double tap, and potentially removes them from cover.

**Sterling191**

mokoshkana wrote:

Forgot about the extended range, but CWE can still kite them. Force them to move ensures they don't get double tap, and potentially removes them from cover.

Not if you're trying to punch through them to get to a Castellan.

**Reemule**

Some of these points aren't adding up.

If they have Stormbolters and Storm shields, charge them. They suck in HTH. If they have Thunder hammers and Storm shields, Stand back and keep firing. That's a huge amount of points. If they have a Terminator to soak low AP, thats a bunch of points.

And so now your talking 200-350 point unit that is the bubble wrap? Kill that unit, win that game.

**Sterling191**

Reemule wrote:

If they have Stormbolters and Storm shields, charge them. They suck in HTH.

A "basic" 10-man kill team is putting out a minimum of 21 S4 attacks in melee. If the player is expecting to use them as a screen, they're gonna include a VanVet, a Biker and a Termie to allow it to fall back from your attempt to tie it up, shoot it to pieces, and then charge.

This is of course assuming they dont simply add a Frag Cannon Vet to melt your squishy T3 elves during overwatch. And thats before the other 30 or so SIA shots.

Reemule wrote:

If they have a Terminator to soak low AP, thats a bunch of points.

DW Terminators clock in at 31 points. It's less than nearly every heavy weapon toting Veteran post Chapter Approved.

Reemule wrote:

And so now your talking 200-350 point unit that is the bubble wrap? Kill that unit, win that game.

Thats precisely the point, without dedicated Mortal Wounds or serious firepower, you're not killing an entrenched DW team. And the firepower you divert to do so is by definition being pulled away from other high priority targets.

**Bharring**

'A "basic" 10-man kill team is putting out a minimum of 21 S4 attacks in melee.'
I can't believe I'm saying this, but this looks like a job for Striking Scorpions!

MEQ with 2A each vs Striking Scorpions is slightly in the MEQs favor, per model. But you have twice as many Scorpions. So you'd win with your chainswords (AP0 is just fine vs their 3+/3++). Mandiblasters are just added fun!

Now, Scorpions aren't competitive, but they could do this job for you.

200-350 points of bubblewrap means you have 18-30 Striking Scorpions to do so with. Not an auto-win, but a hilarious matchup; moreso if they hide in *cover* for the 2+Sv.

Not a serious answer, but I hope we see people do it.

As for kiting, that works if you stick to our longer-range options (tanks and such), but most of our infantry are 12" range. Not much of our book outranges 30".

**Reemule**

I feel there might be an excess of hyperbole in your post.

Certainly no one is expecting a 5 point solution to a 300 point problem, but lets not pretend that a unit of marines in cover is the final nail in all efforts Eldar related coffin.

**mokoshkana**

I also love the notion that CWE is doomed because it can't beat Soup by itself. Beat soup at its own game and add in a nice chunk of Skyweavers, which makes that castellan go away. Then the next turn, those S4 Ap-1 shots will remove some Vets.

**Sterling191**

You know, I'm really enjoying how some folks have taken "hey, you dont want to smash your face against Deathwatch Vet teams and assume you're gonna take em out in short order" to somehow mean "Oh no, you're all doooooooooomed".

But by all means, please continue to assume I'm being hyperbolic by pointing out that Deathwatch have tools to be extremely efficient screens.

**Bharring**

A tough army comprised of units with great invuln saves (he's talking about basically 3++s across the board) and a plethera of small arms fire (SIA SBs on DW) is probably one of the harder counters to CWE.

That said, I still think CWE win that matchup.

**mokoshkana**

Sterling191 wrote:
You know, I'm really enjoying how some folks have taken "hey, you dont want to smash your face against Deathwatch Vet teams and assume you're gonna take em out in short order" to somehow mean "Oh no, you're all doooooooooomed".

But by all means, please continue to assume I'm being hyperbolic by pointing out that Deathwatch have tools to be extremely efficient screens.

You keep countering suggestions to deal with them, and you're not providing any positive feedback for CWE. So I'm not really getting the vibe that you think CWE can win. If I'm wrong, then by all means please let me know.

**Weidekuh**

It's a very good target for Smite+Executioner combo. An average of 6 MW is nice against that unit. Since it's a screen it should be up front.

Edit: changed Doom -> Smite. My bad.

**drakerocket**

I was about to say...you could also just smite that unit? Like, we don't smite spam like TS does, but we're hardly garbage at it.

A melee wraithknight is a pretty good answer as well. So are wraithblades. So is jinx. Guardian bomb + jinx or doom or both....that unit is now probably pretty much crippled or dead.