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So, the “main” DW vet squad is now 5 SB/SS Vets, 1 Bikers, 1 VVet and 3 Terminators with SBs and cheap power weapons.

If it’s the screen, the best counter to this ~280 point unit is smite, executioner, jinx and Warlock mini smite. The reason why the mini smite and standard smite are so good, is because it allows you to setup executioner. The DW player has the choice of either killing the VVet or a SB/SS Vet or put a wound onto a terminator or the bike. If they do that, then you’re going to get the 2d3 MWs from executioner. If they don’t do that, then you’re killing off the stormshields. It’s still 14 wounds to get through, but, it becomes significantly easier to do once you remove 7 of the wounds (on average) before the shooting phase.

Also, I still think Shuriken Cannons are better than Scatter Lasers in this instance. Any 6’s to wound are at -3. You can make the DW player take these first to try and drop one or two stormshields, or force their hand and start taking wounds on the terminators, meaning all the 0ap wounds have move chance of breaking through to the SS vets.

I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

 grouchoben wrote:
I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

Weidekuh wrote:
It's a very good target for Doom+Executioner combo. An average of 6 MW is nice against that unit. Since it's a screen it should be up front.

You mean Smite + Executioner? Doom won't benefit MW output in anyway...

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

True, but Jink + Doom and any unit/units that can mass Scatter laser or Shuirken fire into the unit should drop them pretty fast, so WW bombing might not even be needed.
I am actually THRILLED that DW have this kind of build as it is 1 more common unit that my Windriders are actually good against.

While WRs aren't "meta" units at the moment, they are decent and the more "meta" units that they can be good against, they closer to good the WRs become.
It's like everyone is bringing a bunch of Rocks, so my Paper unit can be viable again

-

Good point, but it was just an example off the top of my head. Scatbikes would be much better suited to the role I suppose. The point being Jinx ruins DW Vet squads, and while it's clearly often wanted for other tasks, if a big 10 man squad is threatening or boardblocking, it will bring them down.

I've been mixing Shuricannons (still the best option for Advancing Battle Focused WRs) and Scatter lasers in my WR units 2/1. It gives some tactical choice to either sit back and pew pew, or move up. The Scats being cheaper and having more restrictions (wanting to be stationary) makes them good first casualties. Once the Scats are dead, or only 1 left, I have no issues just Advancing to get into ideal positions

So against mixed DW Vets, it should do well to "mess" with their wound allocation as some saves will be AP0, some will be AP-3. Throw in Doom and/or Jinx and profit.

And the more I think about it, DW Vets with SS are probably one of the few units that WRs do better against than Spears, and that makes me happy.

-

Sterling191 wrote:
Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

Making your opponent burn 2CP means that is 2 less CP that can be used to save the knight. Might be worth the price of admission depending on how the board looks at the time of reinforcements deployment.

I'm starting to consider a 2K force with each of the 6 Phoenix Lords, and 10 odd of each aspect warrior in 1-2 squads.

Starting to think it might be viable with a few quirks that people wouldn't see coming.

Mostly due to how some Phoenix Lords can really contribute in in the new meta game.

Any advice for facing Death Guard? I had half a game last night before my toddler woke up crying, but my opponent totally had it in the bag anyway!

Now, my opponent played well (and I really didn’t), and I won’t make the same placement errors next time round... BUT what I can’t get my head around is how to deal with “Disgustingly Resilience”. Even mortal would spam doesn't really cut it. Any thoughts?

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
Now, my opponent played well (and I really didn’t), and I won’t make the same placement errors next time round... BUT what I can’t get my head around is how to deal with “Disgustingly Resilience”. Even mortal would spam doesn't really cut it. Any thoughts?

Weapons that do multiple damage help against DR

-

Depends on what he ran? Plague Burst Crawlers it's honestly probably best to ignore. They are savagely resilient for their points. Definitely want to murder mortarian; jynx and doom with the usual volleys work just fine for that. The terminators are painfully slow; kiting them is to your advantage.

So I am kinda newbish when it comes to 8th ed armies I do not own since I don't play much.

What units should I watch out for and try to kill in a tournament. 1 or 2 per list:

Tau:

Chaos Marines: Khorne

Death Guard

Necrons

Harlequins

Titans

Adeptus Custodes

Demons: Tzench

Thousand Sons

and finally

Orks

Thanks. If you want to commentary and tell me why and how to kill them...that's cool too!!

I am fairly familiar with the other armies as I have a lot of them.

This doesn't work well, as there are some large variety in Eldar forces.

What I'd recommend is take your list and compare it to the top 5 lists from the latest tourny and see if you think you would have much chance against it. Spikey bits is pretty good at having some of the latests top lists.

I have a tactical choice to make for my army. I'm stuck between which unit is more effective a unit of 5 fire dragons with an exarch armed with a fire pike or 3 support weapons (2 shadow weavers and 1 d cannon). The first is 144 points the other is 147 and the 3 point difference isn't a problem.

The rest of the list is Asurman, Jain Zar, 3 units of Avengers, 1 unit of banshees, 6 wind riders with scatter lasers, an outrider unit of a shadow seer with 6 skyweavers. My FLGS plays 1250pt games.

Which would you choose and why?

I have a tactical choice to make for my army. I'm stuck between which unit is more effective a unit of 5 fire dragons with an exarch armed with a fire pike or 3 support weapons (2 shadow weavers and 1 d cannon). The first is 144 points the other is 147 and the 3 point difference isn't a problem.

The rest of the list is Asurman, Jain Zar, 3 units of Avengers, 1 unit of banshees, 6 wind riders with scatter lasers, an outrider unit of a shadow seer with 6 skyweavers. My FLGS plays 1250pt games.

Which would you choose and why?

Don't you think you have enough anti-knight with the Skyweavers?

Presumably you are going with the rule of cool rather than the rule of good as competitively you've picked most of the worst eldar units.

That being said the support weapons will out perform your Fire Dragons. The Fire Dragons without an effective delivery system will likely not do anything most games.

If you haven't purchased anything yet I would look at dropping at least Jain Zar and the Howling banshees and look at things like a Wave Serpent, Dark Reapers, Farseer, Warlock, Hemlock, Shining Spears. And possibly changing the bikes to Catapults.

Although I don't have any experience with my list I respectfully disagree with your analysis.

I'm planning on using Sam Haim as my planet. Given that the wind riders can move and fire the scatter lasers at no penalty makes, to me, a very good combo. The RoF of the catapult with the Str of the cannon and a better range than either of them. Also with the extended charge range of the banshees and Jain Zair I can get across the board with a little better than average rolling (move 8 + 3.5 then charge 7 +3)equals 21" and if I want to try to go farther than average I get a reroll on my charge. And I never have to worry about cover fire.

According to the math in the how to counter a knight thread it should only take 6 sky weavers to bring a knight down. if I need more that's what the support weapons/fire dragons are for.

According to the math in the how to counter a knight thread it should only take 6 sky weavers to bring a knight down. if I need more that's what the support weapons/fire dragons are for.

Sorry. What I meant was with your already 6 skyweavers you have enough so do you need the fire dragons.

banshees and Jain Zai

The problem with these guys is first if your opponent breaths on them they die and even if you get them in combat with pretty much anything other than tau they are just not going to have that big of an impact.

wind riders

There is an argument to be had for either weapons on the Wind Riders. I don't really see that as the problem with your army

I may be able to replace the dragons/support weapons with a Wave Serpent but it may be a little too much in points. Assuming that I drop the dragons and support weapons what do you suggest that cost around the 145 point mark?

Honestly Shining Spears have never let me down. Even with the slight points increase. A warlock with Quicken will give you an maximum 54" Charge range. They hit like trucks and can actually be quite hard to kill.

Having both JainZar and Asurmen is gonna hurt you. Asurmen is at least decent (4+ invun on your DA) but still not in the realms of great.

I'm surprised that you are going Sam Haim and not taking any spears and no Autorach Skyrunner with the Novalance (Which would crush Asurmen) and actaully get into combat.

And you are missing an entire Phase which is where Eldar excel in. The Psychic phase. I don't think you'd win many games against a mid level opponent with Eldar without the Psychic Phase.

If your army isn't full of shenanigans and you are playing Eldar personally I think you are doing them wrong.

I general I agree and at the 2000 point level I do have many of the things you mention. The problem is my FLGS plays at the 1250 level. I want to have the staying power that Asurman gives me especially with avengers. I want the ability to tie up shooting units which is what the banshees allow. I want heavy fire power (the skyweavers) and I'd love to have a psyker phase but I just don't have the points. I suppose that I could take the 145 points that I have from the dragons and put a farseer in there or maybe a warlock and unit of spears.

The farseer is one of the best units in any codex, I'd try to find room.

There isn't anything your HB and JainZar can do that Shining Spears + Farseer Skyruuner wouldn't do better.

There is a lot that the spears + Farseer can do that your HB + JainZar cant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW Also the Farseer will take your Skyweavers into God tier. Knights = Auto dead.

So let me tell you about DOOM. It is the most powerful thing in the Eldar toolbox.

I faced 3 Knights and the loyal 32. I lost 20 to 13 by turn 4 but if we had time to play 2 more turns I would have tabled him.

DOOM was the killer. He even had a great first turn as I only did 1 wound to a knight on my turn 1. Turn 2 left his main knight with 2 wounds. Turn 3 killed that and another knight
The Fire Dragons hit all 5 times. All 5 wounded and he failed 4 saves. They did some serious hurt.
Turn 3 his last knight died and all he had left were 4 squads and 3 little characters.

The Fire Dragons were almost evaporated after they torched the 2nd Knight. THAT will happen every time.....They need a vehicle.

Even though my opponent won he was sorely dejected the last 2 rounds as all his cool toys were no more. His heart was not in the game. Now I need to improve my first turn so that I do more than 5 wounds. AKKKK

Overall I was very happy to take down 3 knights in 3 turns.
Would NEVER happen without Doom.

Jinx and the Nova Lance were a huge help.
Banshee Masks on the Autarchs and in my Banshee squad made sure that there was no Overwatch on my charges.We hit the titans hard...and you have to do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me get this right:

No more Fire and Fade into a transport.

We can have multiple units and characters in a Wave Serpent

What happened to Tactical Reserves? Can we set up our Rangers on the First Turn before the Battle or must they wait til turn 2 or 3?

The Same with War Walkers?

My Wave Serpent got hit with a Titan weapon that did 10 damage and d3 mortal wounds. The Serpent Shield drops the 10 down to a 9. Does it have any effect on the Mortal wounds since it is damage from shooting?

Does the Beta Bolter Rule apply to each and every Bolter or just some units ??(ex: Hurricane bolters on a land raider crusader)

Thanks...wish me luck tomorrow.

1. You can, unless they got out of the transport earlier that turn I think.

2. Yes

3. Gone, just boring deepstrike now. Thanks GW.

4. Yep, same as above but must be deployed near a board edge or something.

5. Mortal wounds aren't a damage resut, just wounds applied individually to a unit. So the shield has no effect on them.

6. Only ASTARTES bolter weapons with rapid fire. So the LR Crusader would get it because it has the right keyword. A Sisters of Battle tank would not get it for example.

Thanks for the advice re: Death Guard folks! Targeting singl-wound dudes with multi-wound weapons makes sense on reflection - forces multiple “Disgustingly Resilient “ rolls per model. I like it!

During the game in question I made the (wrong!) desicion to target the Blight Drones with my Vyper-mounted Starcannons & Farseer Skyrunner, when I *should* have picked on the 5-man Death Guard units instead to deny my opponent scoring units (and get “first strike”). Oh well! If we ever get a rematch I’ll bring the same list but choose better targets.

Another player in our group plays GSC, and I’d like to challenge him to a 1000pt game (small because:TODDLER) once the new codex drops. Should I max out on Shuriken to murderate the masses, or should I aim to go more balanced? Any place for a unit of Wraithblades/Wraithguard?

Thanks all!

NuhJuhKuh wrote:


Another player in our group plays GSC, and I’d like to challenge him to a 1000pt game (small because:TODDLER) once the new codex drops. Should I max out on Shuriken to murderate the masses, or should I aim to go more balanced? Any place for a unit of Wraithblades/Wraithguard?

I would take a big unit of Scatterlasers/Shuriken cannons on War Walkers or something and a Farseer, GSC will be the new deepstrike spammers so it will be handy to be able to decimate one of his key units as it arrives with the Forewarned strat. GSC have always been hard hitters but they're fragile if you can punch first.

I always rate Wraithguard with D Scythes, should be especially effective vs GSC I think with such close range fighting. Wraithblades should do fine also. I wouldnt take wraithcannons though.

Ooh, never used “Forwarned” before! Seems like as good an opportunity as any

Threw this together this morning. Highest strength guns are the Starcannon, and I couldn’t find room for any Wraiths unfortunately, but might have some game? FWIW Skyrunner goes with Vypers, Autarch gangs out with Vauls battery:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [60 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 77pts]: Forceshield, Star Glaive

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Support Weapons [9 PL, 111pts]
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver

War Walkers [12 PL, 180pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Do not underestimate the scatter lasers.

I Doomed a 40 boyz unit and wiped it out in 1 round. Same could work with GSC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did well today except round 2 when I was about as dumb as you can get. Won the other 2 matches, but against 3 titans with chain weapons I moved most of my units into 1st turn charge range...They asked me why? I said I was just dumb. I did kill all 3 titans but the Salamander allies mopped up the Victory Points for a good spanking. He said I should have won the game except for whatever I was thinking when I made that goof.

I'm not too concerned about Knight/DW/Loyal 32. The DW vets will generally be in deep strike so you have the first turn to do some damage. If on the table, I'd expect Guard to form the outer ring, DW inside that (to avoid the smite train) and knight behind that. If smart, the DW will be placed so that you can't get within 24" of knight without getting within 12" of them so they can use the anti-eldar strat. Skyweaver bikes are still great vs DW sqds and knights alike so are great allied into an CWE list. Jinx/Doom on DW sqd and then hit with haywire bikes....is typically 5-6 wounds on the DW sqd. Hot them with other elements and it should be gone.