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 Fafnir wrote:
So... Genuine question, and it sounds a bit dumb, but does an Avatar count as a named character or not?

It's not unique in the fluff, as there's one for every craftworld (well, still living ones, sorry Biel Tan). On the other hand, it's limited to one per army, and as far as I can tell, there's no real specific clarification as to what a "named character" is.

Basically, does the Avatar get access to relics? And is he stuck with the craftworld trait (most of which are garbage on him...), or can he choose from the others because he's not locked into a <Craftworld>?

I mean, right now, it seems like the Avatar is hot garbage, but giving it access to some toys might make it not entirely an afterthought.

Not a dumb question, its pretty much up in the air until we get an FAQ.

RAW, he meets all the pre-requisites to have relics and there is nothing strictly stating he can't...

The only thing being that he is lumped in with the other special characters on the points tables.

Taking a look, the only relic he is eligible to take would be the Phoenix gem, double Resurrection anyone?? What a shame he can't take Faolchu's wing - jetbike Avatar

I think the intent was probably that he counts as named character, just my opinion. Either way I hope it will be clarified.





Looking good Niiru!

I have recently taken the plunge and purchased a Scorpion Heavy Grav Tank (what a moron )

Mostly for a painting project, but I know I will eventually bring it against my friends LOW's. Ill keep it mostly stock in game but obviously Spirit Stones for 10 points is a no brainer.

Can anyone think of any stratagem/psychic/other shenanigans when using a Super Heavy Tank with such a gratuitous amount of firepower? All I can think of is perhaps using Cloudstrike to shield it from a turn 1 beating, and it would obviously be a hilarious candidate for the Forewarned stratagem, with the ability to pretty much auto-delete an enemy deepstriker of your choice when next to a Farseer. As far as I can tell it meets the keyword requisites to use these stratagems at least.

 Galef wrote:

Fictional wrote:

The way I see most of it, just from basic interpretation of "you can use the index where a unit is not in the codex", boils down to what "a unit" means.

If the unit has an identically named entry in the codex, you can not use the index.

So, as example, you have Autarch, Autarch with Wings and Autarch with Jump Generator, the first 2 are in the Codex, so you are compelled to use the codex entry, the last one you use the Index for, but with Codex points costs.


Just my logical interpretation, excluding any FAQs, GW input on the matter or any other legitimately established interpretations and rules.

I agree with this. It also makes it easier to explain to non-Eldar players.

So if you want to use that Reaper-launcher kitted Autarch, it'd better be the Jump Generator one from the Index.
If you had a Winged or Skyrunner Autarch with Reaper Launcher, you either ignore it, or cut it off.

-

This is not the intention of GWs comments though, nor a correct interpretation of what they achieve. They use the example of a SM dreadnaught with autocannons as a unit which lost options in the recent codex. There is only one entry for a normal dreadnaught so if you want the autocannons you have to take the index entry.

A few years ago I bought an Autarch with Hawk wings, a reaper launcher and a power sword. GWs comments allow me to take the datasheet from the index, as the one in the codex does not have these options, just like in the case of the dreadnaught.

GW is making a very thoughful move here by protecting its paying customers fron having their previously purchased models invalidated by new rules. I for one appreciate it very much.

The perceived exploits/balance issues are 2nd priority to this in my opinion, and should be fixed by actually fixing the rules, not restricting players from using their lovingly built and painted models.

And whatever issues the autarch cause seem pretty minor compared to already existing balance problems with 8th

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Using 2 squads of 5 scorpions, 82 points each as claw delivery system seem like a better choice than a whole unit of 10.

5 man squads are easy victory points for your opponent, and wont do much in melee honestly. 10 man with fortune, protect, and doom against a target... now your talking. 2+ 5+++ save scorpions for the win!

 DanielFM wrote:

 Knight wrote:

 Galef wrote:
The biggest deterrent for Windriders is that they do not fill minimum slots in a Battalion like DAs and Guardians. Sure you could use an Outrider, but not only are you gimping yourself on CPs but why not just take Spears instead.

Spears have antiquated models, although now that you mentioned it I think most of my regular opponents will have no problems with me using plain windriders as spears.

As long as Shining Spears have those old, ugly models it's like they didn't exist for me. People keep swearing by their rules and I couldn't bear myself to field them in their current form.

I actually kind of like them, the riders themselves at least. Looks a little like a Eldarish jousting knight without being blatant and obvious about it. Mine are all old and metal, I don't know how the mold has stood up to the tests of time and finecast.

Those old style Jetbikes are a bit ugly though they could certainly use an update.

Niiru wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hi everyone, working on the FLyer section and I have to ask... whats wrong with the Phoenix and the Nightwing?

The Phoenix gives you a Heavy 2, S9 AP-3 D3 pulse laser, and a choice of two pretty good missile arrays (nightfire being particularly good for Alaitoc, or anyone really). For 164 points. Which is like 40+ points cheaper than the Hemlock or 20+ less than the Crimson Hunter, and while there are some pros and cons they seem comparable. The Phoenix has a bonus 4 Wounds over either option though.

The Nightwing gets you 2 bright lances and 2 shuriken cannons, and the ability to get +1 to hit if you really want it, and it's even cheaper than the Phoenix. I had it at 140 points I think.

I never seem to hear people talk about them though, as if the Hemlock was straight up better (which maybe it is, because of D-Scythes and Psyker), but I've heard the Crimson Hunter mentioned a few times lately for long-range tank hunting, and I'm not sure why the Phoenix or Nightwing aren't better than the Crimson Hunter at least.

BS2+ on the Hunter seems to make it better for tank hunting. CTMs are just not that good, and are hard to work with on the Phoenix and Nightwing because their two kinds of guns want to be shooting different targets, and you want to be far away from the enemy anyway so your favored target probably won't be closest. The Phoenix is incredibly tanky, yeah, and seems like good competition for a Hunter Exarch with starcannons. The Nightwing just doesn't shoot well enough. Also note that the Phoenix's blind missiles don't really work -- the effect wears off at the end of the turn.

Hahaha omg. I didn't notice it says "end of turn". It's clearly meant to mean battle round, or end of opponents turn, as there's no point to that rule otherwise. I'll be sure to add that in, thanks

The Swooping Hawk Sunrifle in the index is the same way. Removed totally in the Codex though.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Your D-Cannons really sound like they scared him. Are they worth picking up? I was thinking of getting a support Battery to put near my Warwalkers as a bit more fire support.

You are basically getting a vindicator for 75 points. They aren't too tough and you can't buff them with spells because they split up after deployment. They seem like a great buy though if you are going for a ranged build.

I think there could be value in picking up 1 or 2 D-Cannon platforms and going to all lengths to hide them out of site. But then be VERY vocal about where you've placed them and the fact that it is a Distort cannon (in fact call it a D-Cannon). People may still have hang-ups about when Distort weapons were Str D, if it affects or dissuades their decisions to advancing towards it in any way, it may well earn its points back without even shooting.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Wyldcarde wrote:
I don’t know what else you got running in your list but with wave serpents, hemlocks, fire prisms and crimson hunters flying around, if my opponent wants to shoot his anti tank weapons at a dark reaper unit, be my guest. Ditto at a vibrocannon.

I mean, I specifically addressed 2 of these 4 things. Crimson Hunters are a lot like Hemlocks in terms of what they're vulnerable to. Fire Prisms are more vulnerable than Dark Reapers to lascannons, yes -- they're almost as fragile as vibro cannons. You're just not actually looking at how much these cost vs how much damage a lascannon actually expects to do to them. Your position just isn't coherent. Like, if you really think that it's great for your opponent to shoot a support battery with a lascannon instead of a Fire Prism, it must be because you value the Prism's offensive output much more relative to its durability. But it's slightly more durable than the battery. And actually lascannons are close to a worst-case scenario for Prisms. So really you just think that Fire Prisms are much better buys than vibro cannons, and you think your list would be a lot better if you just took your two or three vibro cannons and bought another Prism instead.

Just for reference - you need just over 6 lascannon hits to kill a Fire Prism, and 7 to kill 5 Dark Reapers. Not much different, but the Reapers also degrade faster. Cover affects both in a similar way, but Reapers are easier to squeeze into cover, and can benefit from more psyker buffs like Protect etc.

 Korlandril wrote:
I have been thinking about big squads of Shining Spears with buffs in line with the thinking here.

A similar combo I have been thinking of is 3 Vypers with double Shuriken Cannons. You can buff these up the same, protect for 2+ save, Alaitoc and Conceal for -2 to hit outside of 12". If you can keep 3 up then movement is 20" which is great.

Quicken can let these guys move 40" which could be great for objective grabbing.

In summary t5, 2+ save, 20" move, -2 to hit, 18 wounds for 210pts plus two Warlocks for buffs. Downside is 6 Shuriken cannons worth of firepower only.

I don't think your enemy will bother with a few Vypers if you go to all the effort of buffing their resilience with conceal and protect. They don't have enough teeth to be a threat, so your opponent will just shoot other more vulnerable targets.

Remember guide is not what it used to be as a buff for some of your shooty units, due to the way modifiers stack on after re-rolls.

Guide for a large unit of Dark Reapers = good number of extra hits.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Guide for a Crimson Hunter Exarch - Totally useless

So yes, totally dependant on your own list build as people have said. I for one have absolutely no need for it in mine, nearly everything significantly shooty already has some sort of re-roll to hit built in or sits next to the Autarch.

 Galef wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

Guide for a Crimson Hunter - only actually re-rolling 1's so could be done by a cheap Autarch without needing to pass a psychic test.

Wow, I didn't even think of this. So if you roll a 2, it isn't technically a miss eligible for reroll, then you suffer the -1 for moving. Lame
Makes the Exarch upgrade worth every point then. since either way you're only rerolling 1s.

-

Exactly. Same goes for many FW and other vehicles/fliers which hit on 2's, but will usually be moving for the -1 modifier. You're much better off going for a source of re-rolling 1's in the majority of cases.

A basic Autarch with Star Glaive is just 77 points which is pretty cheap, give him the Wing Relic so he can run around spreading his 6 inch buff to as many units as possible( ). On top of that you get CP's back on 6's and a decent bit of melee damage from him as well. The index is still a great option also if you're that way inclined.

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Was 3k vs Alpha Legion and i had 13CP (and got another 4 via the Autarch recycle), my Avatar is my pride and joy and so i refused to let him die. He ended up getting beat down by a Relic Leviathan Dreadnought x2 and a Black Mace armed Dark Apostle. Brought him back to kill what took him down each time.

I was in a good position early on, stole initiative and one shotted his Storm Eagle with Death Star inside, obliterated a 10 man unit of possessed and crippled a few cultist units in turn 1. Weathered the storm with few casualties in return then the following turn had the Banshees open up on a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with re-roll hits (Ancient Doom), extra attack on 6 (Supreme Disdain), re-roll wounds (The Great Enemy) and +1 to wound (Empower) as well as making short work of some Warp Talons, Bikers and Cultists with the rest of my force. Given this and the large number of CP's i had at my disposal i was happy to play a bit risky with my Avatar and let him tank some hits for my more vulnerable Aspect Warriors.

Sounds like it was a great battle!

 Shadenuat wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
Press 40k.

Wrap your Triumvirate box in tape and mail to GW, demand a refund.

Holy hell that is groundbreaking. Was Ynnari really so powerful that they had to demolish it completely? I'm gonna flat out say no.

For all those who haven't seen it, this is in the new Xenos 1 FAQ, see page 2:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_index_xenos_1_en-1.pdf

Damn... either one of those conditions would have been a massive nerf, to be hammered with both is just astounding.

Also, has anyone seen this yet/is it new?

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

Page 2 - gives a flow chart for using datasheets from the index if your codex is missing wargear options.

States quite clearly (as far as I can see), that you can take any of the codex datasheet entries for say, an Autarch, but then apply the weapon options that were available in the index, at the points costs from the codex.

Edit: Helvost beat me to it

Pretty sweet buff for the Autarch, I'll be glad to bring him again - and no change to the 'Target Characters' Warlord trait. I now have no moral issues bringing a Reaper Sniper to the table

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
For Alaitoc, what's generally the better troop choice, Rangers or Dire Avengers?

Depends what you want to achieve really. Rangers are a good screening unit (because of infiltrate) and far more durable, especially with Alaitoc. But IMO they are pretty toothless i.e. have poor offensive capability. This is where Dire Avengers rock.

If you're just taking cheap 5 man squads to fill your troop slots, go mostly rangers or maybe a mix of each. If you're taking big squads to do some damage, Dire Avengers or Guardians.

 Shadenuat wrote:
So the fact that Autarches & Hemlock are "equipped" with their stuff... do we pay for it or what?

Yes. The argument previously was that the soulstones and forceshield were listed as an ability rather than wargear so you didn't have to purchase them. Now they're clearly equipment and you have to play the points.

Ynnari were middling at best in the last (only) competitive 8th Ed event I've been to, and recent results I've seen say the same thing. From a high power competitive standpoint, this is a massive over-reaction to a problem that doesn't really exist.

From a casual gaming perspective, SfD probably did need a tone down as it is easily exploitable by most list builds, especially now that Dark Reapers can be spammed cheaply. Perhaps the 'one action per type per turn' is justified from that point of view, but to stack that on top of losing the effect totally in your opponents turn just seems ludicrous to me.

Anyway, happy I didn't sink any money into a Triumvirate now...

mmimzie wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Ynnari were middling at best in the last (only) competitive 8th Ed event I've been to, and recent results I've seen say the same thing. From a high power competitive standpoint, this is a massive over-reaction to a problem that doesn't really exist.

What?? Did you see the socal open results?? All the ynnari list that were brought did better than 50% and one of them made 3rd place...

Ynnari just got a super buff in the form of craft world eldar by having massive cost reductions accross the board and giving ynari access to craftworld stratagem. This nerd compensates for CW and the coming DE books coming out.

Nah I didnt look at the Socal results yet. Okay so maybe they got a boost?

I stand by my point though. Id wager that if this FAQ was in force, you would not see a 3rd place Ynnari or many Ynnari lists above 50%, or many lists at all in fact. Competitive Ynnari is dead until we see a codex most likely.

Do people generally have good experiences with Shadow Spectres? I'm looking for a unit to deepstrike, then zip around delivering knockout blows to enemy infantry, like 7th Ed Warpspiders used to be. At the moment I'm trying to find a reason not to order a bunch of them (aside from the fact my bank balance is poor).

On paper they look fantastic. Mobile, tough, especially with Alaitoc, and killy vs everything short of big vehicles. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits. I usually bring plenty of anti-tank so thats not a problem. Re rolls to hit are particularly tasty thanks to all those extra hits, or just use the heavy flamers for some mass carnage.

Their points cost isn't that cheap considering they are still T3 1W models, but considering how they synergize so well with the various psychic powers, stratagems etc...

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


I thought the general consensus among folks was they are a go-to Alaitoc unit, if you are in a FW friendly environment. They are fragile, but the -2 to-hit, mobility and firepower seem to make up for it.

I recall some discussion in this thread just after the codex was released, basically echoed by my post. Now that we've had it for a few weeks to make use of them I wondered if peoples opinions/experiences had changed, anecdotes, tips n' tricks etc.

Help me justify spending all this $$$ to myself

Edit: Also whats the verdict on the exarch? +5 points for an extra wound essentially? The gun options both look inferior to the stock one and I assume with Alaitoc you don't often wanna be close enough to make use of the morale check thing.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:


They're a go to unit for me. I rarely play a game without between 8-10. They just answer a lot of problems - they're tremendously effective answers to any of the T6 vehicles and really into the T7+ range if that target is doomed. They also really enjoy guide with the crazy extra hit generation it nets them. And to top that all off the fact that they are each equipped with essentially a heavy flamer means they do very well keeping the lines clear and aren't terribly afraid of most charges. When I'm building a list they're on the first units I add and with the advent of the webway stratagem it makes it even easier to protect them from first turn shooting while inserting them in the best possible position.

Cheers for that! The other thing I noticed while reading about them today is that they are Jet Pack infantry. Wave Serpents are unable to transport Jump Pack Infantry but it says nothing about jet packs. This could be another alternative way to keep them safe if for example you use the cloudstrike stratagem (like I often do).

Taking a look at the Exarch again, the Haywire gun might actually be ok with its longer range and ability to strip the odd few wounds off vehicles. Maybe for a larger unit where just another Prism rifle would probably end up as overkill??

Aw lame, never mind with that one then!

mmimzie wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Gonna have to agree to disagree on Alaitoc. I think it's such a no-brainer that it's the greatest weakness of the codex. Just because you get close doesn't mean you are inside 12" for the entire enemy army. Mobility is the greatest strength of Eldar. You move within range of what you plan to eliminate, not the whole army. -1 isn't what makes Alaitoc so strong, it's all the units that get -2.

Won't be surprised to see a -2 list do very well in some big tournaments soon. Matches up well in the current meta.

Nah because the top list are have a nice smite spam element that also does care about your -2 x.x. Honestly having face the various various -1 force they just don't matter x.x. Then we also ahve to note the nids are out there and they will also have no cares for the alatioc -1. The best defense is always a good offense in 40k. That's been true for many editions.

My eldar list wouldn't even notice you're playing alaitoc. Nothing would be that far x,x as it's all close range.

But as you say agree to disagree. I'm jsut saying you can go back to the last 3 books with a -1 to hit craftworld (etc) and see the first x pages full of -1 to hit being great. Then tournament hits and they all stop talking about...

What would you predict as the encumbent 'meta' Craftworld then?

Sure its possible to get around the Alaitoc trait, but its still a significant buff when in effect. All the others just seem so 'meh' as to barely even bother with them at all, and are hugely build-specific to be useful. Alaitoc also effects all models in your army, which is different to what we've seen from Raven Guard and the like.

Does anyone elses browser always try to suggest 'Clitoral' as a spelling correction for Alaitoc? Gets me every time.

Hmmm yeah Im gonna have to disagree as well. Guardians, Banshees and close combat Wraithstuff will not be meta defining, theyre some of the more average choices in the codex.

And Alaitoc will not be all powerful taking hordes of Rangers. More like hordes of Hemlocks and Crimson Hunters, and Spectres apparently

 Shadenuat wrote:
Spiders could use something like increased D if target has more wounds than 1 (except Vehicles). For now monofilament weaponry is too similar to shuriken one.

Agreed, something to differentiate would be nice. I remember when deathspinners used to be template, a flamer like profile would be cool also...

 DanielFM wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
...units like Striking Scorpions need to be rewritten entirely to be worth even considering alone, let alone in comparison.

What did you expect from them? What are they supposed to be? They deepstrike, they are as resilient as you can make them, they get two strength 4 attacks, a fluffy (and useful) bonus when attacking units in cover, and moderately useful Mandiblasters (not worse than previous versions) for a decent price.
What would the needed rewrite feature? Having 4 attacks? Guaranteed charge after deepstrike?
The only thing they really need is ap -1 on their chainswords. But hardly anyone gets this kind of CC weapons.

2 Strength 4 attacks is completely pathetic for what is meant to be a dedicated CC unit IMO. Barely scratches the paint on many things and if the enemy is decent at striking back, they have no hope. For me, if they really need something its more CC output. The claw is ok but no one wants a unit simply for exarch delivery.

They also lost their ability to stalk though cover and gain better bonuses from it. T3 with a 3+ save isn't that durable (no matter how many people say it is), and I don't see them often making it to close combat unless they manage to make their initial 9 inch charge. While that's not a deal breaker, I do certainly miss that rule compared to what they had in 7th, was nice and fluffy having to hug the cover and stalk on your way to make your assault. The bonus to hit enemies in cover seems arbitrary and strange to me by comparison.

I rate farseers, haven't tried Eldrad yet due to the craftworld keyword jazz. But he looks good.

Powers to take depend on your target audience. Guide is ok but greatly reduced this edition, due to the way modifiers work after rerolls.

Doom is almost an auto pick by comparision. Theres very few situations where it is less useful during a game than guide. Executioner is solid as you say, but dont discount good old smite which come for free if you need it.

Fortune is the other solid power. Not many people put their faith in it but I find it incredibly beneficial especially mid game, when you know what the opponent is likely to try and kill next turn.

My usual pick is a farseer with doom and fortune. If I ever took a second one it would be executioner and probably doom again, just in case.

Smite spam can't be that great then, surely a dedicated shooting unit is going to be better use of points

Depends on what youre up against. Smite doesnt sound like many wounds, but when youre not rolling to hit or wound or save they stack up suprisingly fast.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
Well, reapers and spears are far and away the best units in the codex (Spectres we're close before, but don't come close now). While I could definitely see some rebalancing in their future, with the silly heavy-handedness of the Spectre nerf, I worry for them. While still a very good value for their points, they're still very expensive for 1W models, and the last thing Eldar need is one of their anti-horde options to become too expensive to deal with hordes.

Specters were never in the codex, unlike reapers and spears, and that will be their and every other FW unit's issue going forward.

If the Index v Codex differences are indicative of their current overall direction, in that models/options you cannot purchase in a GW store are 99% not in the codex books, then I can understand the heavy handedness of the FW points changes.

I feel they are trying to further encourage players to buy models from the codex books over FW alternatives.

As long as they continue in this direction, I wouldn't hold my breath on anything FW ever maintaining its status as a "go to" or "must have" in any army for long. And once its changed, I don't see it returning in value beyond being just expensive enough to make you second guess choosing that option over a codex option instead.

Of course, this is just my opinion and I could be wrong. But this first round of rather heavy handed CA changes to FW point values in multiple factions makes me lean that direction.

I think what will be most telling is Forgeworlds first dedicated publication, if such a thing still exists. The 'Imperial Armour' equivalent for 8th edition...

I think GW make decent money off printed publications, so they would be hesitant to discontinue all FW books.

While it is not strictly a tactics subject, I would invite all Eldar players to take part in the survey below and let GW know what we want from the Craftworlds range/rules moving forward:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/30/say-big-community-survey-nov-30gw-homepage-post-1/

If we present a united front, we CAN get our finecast Aspect Warriors replaced! Khaine wills it!