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 Eldarsif wrote:
So, anybody enjoyed the joy of facing boosted Mental Onslaught from Genestealer Cults? Had that experience this weekend and it was interesting to experience a unit being fully deleted no matter how much health it had left.

It is a potentially nasty power. The thing to remember is that it targets a model, not a unit. If your opponent catches something big a juicy like a Wraithknight with it, you will suffer. Against an infantry squad it is not so scary, just one dead dude.

Yeah looks nasty. Specialy if used on their 10ld character.
I feel like thats what mind war should be for us. Atm its not worth taking over exocutioner or just smiting. :(

 Argive wrote:
I feel like thats what mind war should be for us. Atm its not worth taking over exocutioner or just smiting. :(

Mind War is better than Smite in that you can pick your target (right down the model IIRC) rather than just hitting the closest enemy. We also have the ability to buff it with Hemlocks, Horrify and Swooping Hawks (maybe other Ld modifiers but these ones are off the top of my head). However the potential to do unlimited Mortal Wounds with Mental Onslaught does sound nasty. I think GSC could be a hard counter for IKs with that combo.

 ServiceGames wrote:
Crimson Hunter Exarch... Starcannons or Bright Lances?

Thanks

SG

Starcannons. I’ve got way more mileage EVERYTIME I’ve ran theme and they are way cheaper. Don’t go any other way.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
So, anybody enjoyed the joy of facing boosted Mental Onslaught from Genestealer Cults? Had that experience this weekend and it was interesting to experience a unit being fully deleted no matter how much health it had left.

It is a potentially nasty power. The thing to remember is that it targets a model, not a unit. If your opponent catches something big a juicy like a Wraithknight with it, you will suffer. Against an infantry squad it is not so scary, just one dead dude.

The problem is that it is technically a 24 inch threat radius. The power is 18 inches and the Broodlord/patriarch can move 8 inches. It has the possibility of limiting your movements if the opponent deploys near the middle of the board.

At LD11 my buddy's Patriarch did 3 wounds to my Ulthwe hemlock. No big deal. No degrading profile is amazing.

Best weapons for War Walkers in 8th?

Thanks

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
Best weapons for War Walkers in 8th?

Thanks

SG

Keep em cheap, Shuriken cannons

I think that it depends on what you want the walkers to do. If you want to have a mobile fire platform then shuriken cannons are best since walkers have battle focus. If you want to go hunting with them then either go with 2xbright lances (expensive but effective) or 2x Star cannons (less expensive but less effective). The missile launcher is an all around option weapon but it cost the same as a bright lance.

Don't forget the problem that I was looking at, when you buy a walker kit it only comes with one of each heavy weapon so you either have to scrounge bits or buy a second walker kit.

I like to kit out my 3 walkers with EML or Bright Lances. I ALWAYS kit one model out the cheapest with 2 Scatter Lasers. I know my opponent will target them....I try to stay hidden in a corner with LoS to minimized his retaliation. When they do kill one...it is always the 'ablative' scatter laser to go first. My WW units always survive thru turn 3 and normally longer.

 ServiceGames wrote:
Best weapons for War Walkers in 8th?

Depends on what other weapons you have in your army to some extent. If you are starting with a blank slate, I would go for 3 x dual Brightlances. It makes them a great caddy for "Guide" as you get to maximise the number of weapons that benefit from the rerolls.

Leave Shuricannons for things like Wraithlord and Wave Serpents that you are more likely to want to keep mobile.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I think that it depends on what you want the walkers to do. If you want to have a mobile fire platform then shuriken cannons are best since walkers have battle focus. If you want to go hunting with them then either go with 2xbright lances (expensive but effective) or 2x Star cannons (less expensive but less effective). The missile launcher is an all around option weapon but it cost the same as a bright lance.

Don't forget the problem that I was looking at, when you buy a walker kit it only comes with one of each heavy weapon so you either have to scrounge bits or buy a second walker kit.

If you are getting them via the Start Collecting box that’s less of an issue, as it also comes with a Wraithlord. So the SC box gets you two of each gun. Then it’s just a mater of who’s getting what gun.

Or magnets.

I picked up 2 SC boxes. One WL is a brightlance shooter, the other is a shuriken and sword charger. I think the Walkers are going to go with starcannons for flex. But all the guns are swappable, that’s just the shelf deployment.

Hi,

I would like to jump into craftworlds. I saw an auction on eBay that seems interesting.

Is it possible to build a competitive list with those models?

Autarch Skyrunner x 1
Eldar Farseer Skyrunner x 1
Shining Spears x 5
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Night Spinner x 1
Craftworlds Wave Serpent x 1
Crimson Hunter x 1
Wraithguard x 5
Vyper x 3
War Walker x 2

Thank you !

HeavenLord wrote:
Hi,

I would like to jump into craftworlds. I saw an auction on eBay that seems interesting.

Is it possible to build a competitive list with those models?

Autarch Skyrunner x 1
Eldar Farseer Skyrunner x 1
Shining Spears x 5
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Windriders x 6
Night Spinner x 1
Craftworlds Wave Serpent x 1
Crimson Hunter x 1
Wraithguard x 5
Vyper x 3
War Walker x 2

Thank you !

They have no troops so that means no battalion which means hardly any cp which competitive wise is a problem.

Yea ideally you would have to invest in at least 3 troops and couple more hq's choices to make a battalion as pain4pleaaure said.

Its a decent bundle with mostly useful units. At the moment you could only run it as 2 outrider detatchements. That would only give you 5cp to work with which isint great but just about playable (not competatively).

Which is the better choice in this matter? I'm going to put a full unit of fire dragons + fuegan in a wave serpent. As such, I'm going to need to get it close to the dragons' target before they deploy. I'm debating about which craftworld trait would be better for the serpent's survivability between Altioc and Ulthwe. I can't afford to put the upgrade that gives a serpent a -1 to be hit when it advances so that can't be considered. I'd like to avoid having to depend on using LFR or protect on the serpent. So just considering straight up survivability which is the better trait?

Greetings everyone! I would like to ask advice from the more experienced Autarchs.

I am to fight orks tomorrow, never fought them before with Eldar, I expect lots of boyz I guess. I don't really have aspect warriors like Banshies and Scorpions, so I wanted to ask if Wraithblades are good idea, with ghostswords or axes? We'll play on 1300 pts. Tyank you in advance for the answers.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Which is the better choice in this matter? I'm going to put a full unit of fire dragons + fuegan in a wave serpent. As such, I'm going to need to get it close to the dragons' target before they deploy. I'm debating about which craftworld trait would be better for the serpent's survivability between Altioc and Ulthwe. I can't afford to put the upgrade that gives a serpent a -1 to be hit when it advances so that can't be considered. I'd like to avoid having to depend on using LFR or protect on the serpent. So just considering straight up survivability which is the better trait?

If your battle plan hinges on delivering the fire dragons & fuegan you would have to spend the 10pts fto give it minus -1 when advancing (idealy star engines too) and make it alitoic then LFR so -3 to hit. Very surviavble
You will have to pay CP or points. You cnat have your cake and eat it too.

Alternatively you could put them both int he webway and use the seprent for something else or drop it entirely and pick another unit if all you need is delivery.
That way you use 3cp for webway strike on 2 units rather than 2 cp to maybe or maybe not save the serpent.

Alternatively yu could put the seprent in cloud strike for 1 CP but that would mean your fire dragons would not be able to do anything until turn 3.

As to wether alitoic or ulthwe that would depend on the composiiton of the army. Alitoic is genneraly considered the go to choice, but argument can be made for ulthwe on multi wound models.
During my last game I made soemthing like 5 ulthwe saves on my WS but could have just as easily gone wrong. I tend to have a ulthwe detahcment so I can take eldrad + autarch with fate reader so its usualy minimal patrol or maybe a spearhead. If you dont acre for those then alitoic seems the betetr choice army wide.

Can you post a list? Is this a stand alone patrol detatchemnt ? HArd to advise without context.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rihariel wrote:
Greetings everyone! I would like to ask advice from the more experienced Autarchs.

I am to fight orks tomorrow, never fought them before with Eldar, I expect lots of boyz I guess. I don't really have aspect warriors like Banshies and Scorpions, so I wanted to ask if Wraithblades are good idea, with ghostswords or axes? We'll play on 1300 pts. Tyank you in advance for the answers.

Are you keeping them int he webway or WS ?

I would say perosnaly Blades are the more cost efficient especialy if you can pu them in a serpent/webway. the +1A and no minus to hit tend to be better IMO. Thinks Its a fair trade off for 1 les str and 1dmg rather than D3.
But axes are more durable if they have to foot slog or be dropped behind enemy lines without asistance. But If you cast protect, their T6 2+3++ is very tasty.

 Rihariel wrote:
Greetings everyone! I would like to ask advice from the more experienced Autarchs.

I am to fight orks tomorrow, never fought them before with Eldar, I expect lots of boyz I guess. I don't really have aspect warriors like Banshies and Scorpions, so I wanted to ask if Wraithblades are good idea, with ghostswords or axes? We'll play on 1300 pts. Tyank you in advance for the answers.

Are you keeping them int he webway or WS ?

I would say perosnaly Blades are the more cost efficient especialy if you can pu them in a serpent/webway. the +1A and no minus to hit tend to be better IMO. Thinks Its a fair trade off for 1 les str and 1dmg rather than D3.
But axes are more durable if they have to foot slog or be dropped behind enemy lines without asistance. But If you cast protect, their T6 2+3++ is very tasty.

I was thinking Webway, I have two WS and I planned to put Dark Reapers in one, I have 8, and Dire Avengers and Asurmen in the other, I would also play as Biel-Tan and bring 20 Guardian Defenders with shuricanon platforms. Though, I wonder if maybe Storm Guardians are better, thought Defenders have more shots really...

"Though, I wonder if maybe Storm Guardians are better"
No.

"I have two WS and I planned to put Dark Reapers in one, I have 8, and Dire Avengers and Asurmen in the other"
You probably want all 8 reapers, but note that if you drop them to 6, you could fit DAs and Asurmen in the same Serpent with them.

Bharring wrote:
"Though, I wonder if maybe Storm Guardians are better"
No.

"I have two WS and I planned to put Dark Reapers in one, I have 8, and Dire Avengers and Asurmen in the other"
You probably want all 8 reapers, but note that if you drop them to 6, you could fit DAs and Asurmen in the same Serpent with them.

Sounds good, though I thought to use 2x5 DAs, to gain at least two of the glaives. Also, what about D-sythes? Are maybe Wraithguard with D-scythes better than Wraithblades with swords?

In my experience, DAs don't need Serpents as much as most. While they'd love a cheap transport to get them close, they just don't put out enough firepower to justify it - as the CWE transports are really expensive.

A 5-man DA squad with a Glaive means you have 4 Avenger SCs - that's 8 shots at 18" (probably 9 at 12", as you're taking Asurmen with them you shouldn't have the Shield). SCs are good, but not *that* good. So you're paying a lot per transport cap, but getting less firepower than a 5man Tac Marine squad. Asurmen gives them a 4++, but the Exarchs already have that, and 12 t3 4++ wounds don't last as long as you'd think, unless something big is coming up behind them. To add to that, without a Transport, Dire Avengers move 7+d6 inches/round while firing at full effect at 18". So they'res a decent chance you're not firing at what you want on your first turn, but the transport basically doubles their cost - you could have twice as many DAs (or throw in some other Aspects) for the same points.

I usually put something more scary in my Serpents. Fire Dragons or Wrathguard tend to scare people enough to attract fire - and you really want their guns going into your Serpent.

That said, 10 DAs and Asurmen should be a fun bomb to drop on people in small games, and fun to play around with while you figure out the army.

Also, try to get a Psyker into your list. CWE are incredibly buff-dependant, but their buffs come from Pskers, not HQs.

I just realized that my list won't allow me to put the wave serpent in my Ulthwe grouping (Supreme command) since I already have an elite and wave serpent in it. So Altioc it is.

Just as an excercise in math which serpent survives longer an Altioc or Ulthwe craft? Assume 36" away from the enemy troops but the enemy has first turn. I have no idea what to use as the base weapon. I guess Lascannons?

36" away, definitely Alaitoc. -1-to-hit is huge, even if you don't LQR it.

IIRC, Serpents only fit <Craftworld> infantry (and Phoenix Lords) - meaning you can't put Uthwe in Alaitoc Serpents, or vice-versa (doublecheck in the 'dex, because I'm not 100%).

I know that. I already had an elite unit and serpent in my ulthwe supreme command detachment. I have to put my dragon+serpent in my altioc detachment.

Bharring wrote:
In my experience, DAs don't need Serpents as much as most. While they'd love a cheap transport to get them close, they just don't put out enough firepower to justify it - as the CWE transports are really expensive.

A 5-man DA squad with a Glaive means you have 4 Avenger SCs - that's 8 shots at 18" (probably 9 at 12", as you're taking Asurmen with them you shouldn't have the Shield). SCs are good, but not *that* good. So you're paying a lot per transport cap, but getting less firepower than a 5man Tac Marine squad. Asurmen gives them a 4++, but the Exarchs already have that, and 12 t3 4++ wounds don't last as long as you'd think, unless something big is coming up behind them. To add to that, without a Transport, Dire Avengers move 7+d6 inches/round while firing at full effect at 18". So they'res a decent chance you're not firing at what you want on your first turn, but the transport basically doubles their cost - you could have twice as many DAs (or throw in some other Aspects) for the same points.

I usually put something more scary in my Serpents. Fire Dragons or Wrathguard tend to scare people enough to attract fire - and you really want their guns going into your Serpent.

That said, 10 DAs and Asurmen should be a fun bomb to drop on people in small games, and fun to play around with while you figure out the army.

Also, try to get a Psyker into your list. CWE are incredibly buff-dependant, but their buffs come from Pskers, not HQs.

Thank you for the elaborate explanation. So I am thinking, maybe I'll drop Asurmen and take a Farseer with Spiritseer, for the Wraithblades. Since DA will try to grab objectives, I hope. Will go with swords on the Wraithblades. Will split the Dark Reapers in two squads to gain double Tempest Launchers. Give my WS all Shuricannons. Trying to maximize shooting to kill as much as I can orks before they get close enough for the charge, and I know they will do that fast.

 Rihariel wrote:

So I am thinking, maybe I'll drop Asurmen and take a Farseer with Spiritseer,

But then you don't get to have fun with Asurman! I field him in almost every list - your list will be stronger (generally) swapping him out for other HQs, but he's just so much fun, and does things the Psykers don't. I actually run him more often than not, and mixed with a bunch of infantry (Aspect Warriors get a 5++ near him, which is great, but he can work wonders backing Guardians too), he really changes the game vs many lists; he'll do nasty things in CC, provided he's supported by warm bodies. Having a bunch of DAs tank hits while he carves through the enemy is glorious. And throwing in a Banshee squad, while not effective, can be a lot of fun!

If you're just starting, and not terribly competitive, don't necessarily drop Asurman. Maybe swap him in & out in diffferent games.

 Rihariel wrote:

for the Wraithblades. Since DA will try to grab objectives, I hope. Will go with swords on the Wraithblades.

Your DAs will push forward for objectives, but so will your Wraithblades. The differences are (1) your DAs need the objective cleared before they can get close - yes they have ObSec, but they'll lose out in CC vs most other troops. Wraithblades don't mind wading through other units, though, and (2) Wraithblades are reasonably hard to kill, but don't kill too terribly much; Dire Avengers are really easy to kill (slightly more durable than a Guardsman), but have a reasonably good gun. The two get used *very* differently.

 Rihariel wrote:

Will split the Dark Reapers in two squads to gain double Tempest Launchers. Give my WS all Shuricannons. Trying to maximize shooting to kill as much as I can orks before they get close enough for the charge, and I know they will do that fast.

You need to kill as much as possible before CC against Orks - even with CWE CC units - Banshees, Spears, Scorpions, Asurmen, Wraithblades, etc - Orkz will easily drown you. CWE actually needs to use ranged and CC together, combind-arms style, to be effective. But then, when you've whittled down an Ork mob to 10 Boyz, you charge them with everything. Don't forget that your Serpents don't care too much about Ork overwatch, and can fall back and shoot next turn (Fly). It's not uncommon for me to charge the remnant squad after I've whittled it down with 3-5 different units. You'd be surprised how much even a shooty unit like Dire Avengers can add to CC when you can bring in a pair of 5-mans to support whatever CC threat you pulled in. Especially with Asurmen in the mix. Just don't expect the Dire Avengers or Serpents to kill many in CC themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One other note; get more Troops. Not only do you want 3 units of Troops (and 2 HQ) fairly soon, you'll also learn which Troops you prefer over time. Each of our Troops have their own role, and do their thing better than any of the others (even Storm Guardians, although I wouldn't bother with them for a while). So it can be good to have Guardians, Rangers, and DAs, so you can shift your army as your preferences and experiences change.

Today you might put your Wraiths in the Serpent, tomorrow maybe DAs, and next week maybe Guardians. But there'll always be a use for that Serpent. But you might not always want to run your Wraiths, or might not always want the second Reaper squad, or whatever. Your collection doesn't need to rigidly follow your intended list.

Bharring wrote:

 Rihariel wrote:

So I am thinking, maybe I'll drop Asurmen and take a Farseer with Spiritseer,

But then you don't get to have fun with Asurman! I field him in almost every list - your list will be stronger (generally) swapping him out for other HQs, but he's just so much fun, and does things the Psykers don't. I actually run him more often than not, and mixed with a bunch of infantry (Aspect Warriors get a 5++ near him, which is great, but he can work wonders backing Guardians too), he really changes the game vs many lists; he'll do nasty things in CC, provided he's supported by warm bodies. Having a bunch of DAs tank hits while he carves through the enemy is glorious. And throwing in a Banshee squad, while not effective, can be a lot of fun!

If you're just starting, and not terribly competitive, don't necessarily drop Asurman. Maybe swap him in & out in diffferent games.

 Rihariel wrote:

for the Wraithblades. Since DA will try to grab objectives, I hope. Will go with swords on the Wraithblades.

Your DAs will push forward for objectives, but so will your Wraithblades. The differences are (1) your DAs need the objective cleared before they can get close - yes they have ObSec, but they'll lose out in CC vs most other troops. Wraithblades don't mind wading through other units, though, and (2) Wraithblades are reasonably hard to kill, but don't kill too terribly much; Dire Avengers are really easy to kill (slightly more durable than a Guardsman), but have a reasonably good gun. The two get used *very* differently.

 Rihariel wrote:

Will split the Dark Reapers in two squads to gain double Tempest Launchers. Give my WS all Shuricannons. Trying to maximize shooting to kill as much as I can orks before they get close enough for the charge, and I know they will do that fast.

You need to kill as much as possible before CC against Orks - even with CWE CC units - Banshees, Spears, Scorpions, Asurmen, Wraithblades, etc - Orkz will easily drown you. CWE actually needs to use ranged and CC together, combind-arms style, to be effective. But then, when you've whittled down an Ork mob to 10 Boyz, you charge them with everything. Don't forget that your Serpents don't care too much about Ork overwatch, and can fall back and shoot next turn (Fly). It's not uncommon for me to charge the remnant squad after I've whittled it down with 3-5 different units. You'd be surprised how much even a shooty unit like Dire Avengers can add to CC when you can bring in a pair of 5-mans to support whatever CC threat you pulled in. Especially with Asurmen in the mix. Just don't expect the Dire Avengers or Serpents to kill many in CC themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One other note; get more Troops. Not only do you want 3 units of Troops (and 2 HQ) fairly soon, you'll also learn which Troops you prefer over time. Each of our Troops have their own role, and do their thing better than any of the others (even Storm Guardians, although I wouldn't bother with them for a while). So it can be good to have Guardians, Rangers, and DAs, so you can shift your army as your preferences and experiences change.

Today you might put your Wraiths in the Serpent, tomorrow maybe DAs, and next week maybe Guardians. But there'll always be a use for that Serpent. But you might not always want to run your Wraiths, or might not always want the second Reaper squad, or whatever. Your collection doesn't need to rigidly follow your intended list.

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all this to me. Yeah I am just starting and don't have much models, generally I have 20 guardians with platforms, 8 Dark Reapers, 10 Dire Avengers, 5 Wraith constructs with magnetized weapons so that I can use them as either blades or guard, 2 Wave Serpent with magnetized weapons too, and two Vypers that gather dust on the shelves, can't find use for them in 1300 pts list, and two HQs that I proxy play, Prince Yriel who sometimes is an Autarch, this time he'll be Asurmen, sometimes he is Farseer etc, and I have a kitbash character that I generally use as a psycker, some times as Farseer, Warlock or Spiritseer. Still learning the army, since I come from Dark Angels. I'll take all you told me in consideration.

One more piece of advice: I often suggest the "One Box" strategy for building CWE collections; if you like a (non-Troop) get a box. Don't get two.

This leads to a more diverse collection. You'll have a little bit of everything. So your list won't just be the Latest Hotness, but your list also won't be filled with whatever our junk unit is. It's also a lot more fun to play *against* such a list, as your opponent has options even if they're outmatched.

After you've done that for a while, you'll know what you like and what you don't. It'll also keep you away from being overly dependant on spamming one particular unit, or having a deathstar-centric list. The downside is that, if you're competitive, you won't have the most competitive list.

Each meta is different, so you need to find answers that work for you. But branching out to collect different options for CWE is usually a good idea.

 Rihariel wrote:

I am to fight orks tomorrow, never fought them before with Eldar, I expect lots of boyz I guess. I don't really have aspect warriors like Banshies and Scorpions, so I wanted to ask if Wraithblades are good idea, with ghostswords or axes? We'll play on 1300 pts. Tyank you in advance for the answers.

The choice between swords and axes depends to some extent on whether you need horde control or big game hunting. I probably lean in favour of swords provided you have enough big guns to deal with tougher targets. D-Scythes are possibly better. Disembark from a Serpent and Advance if necessary to get in range. Shoot for 5xD3 automatic S10 hits. Should kill about 8 boys on average. If thye try and charge you, inflict the same again as overwatch. If the Orks still make the charge, fight and then withdrawn in your next movement phase and shoot again at full effect thanks to the "Implacable" rule.

Against armies like Orks, I have found using a screen of Wave Serpents with triple shuricannons is quite effective. Spend the first turn thinning the horde as much as possible. Serpents hopefully take the charge without being too badly damaged. Next turn, the serpents withdrawn and shoot again thanks to FLY while the Avengers/Guardians inside hop out and shred the Orks.

Rangers can actually do quite well against orks by targeting Wierdboyz and other poorly armoured characters.