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Bharring wrote:
One more piece of advice: I often suggest the "One Box" strategy for building CWE collections; if you like a (non-Troop) get a box. Don't get two.

This leads to a more diverse collection. You'll have a little bit of everything. So your list won't just be the Latest Hotness, but your list also won't be filled with whatever our junk unit is. It's also a lot more fun to play *against* such a list, as your opponent has options even if they're outmatched.

After you've done that for a while, you'll know what you like and what you don't. It'll also keep you away from being overly dependant on spamming one particular unit, or having a deathstar-centric list. The downside is that, if you're competitive, you won't have the most competitive list.

Each meta is different, so you need to find answers that work for you. But branching out to collect different options for CWE is usually a good idea.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Rihariel wrote:

I am to fight orks tomorrow, never fought them before with Eldar, I expect lots of boyz I guess. I don't really have aspect warriors like Banshies and Scorpions, so I wanted to ask if Wraithblades are good idea, with ghostswords or axes? We'll play on 1300 pts. Tyank you in advance for the answers.

The choice between swords and axes depends to some extent on whether you need horde control or big game hunting. I probably lean in favour of swords provided you have enough big guns to deal with tougher targets. D-Scythes are possibly better. Disembark from a Serpent and Advance if necessary to get in range. Shoot for 5xD3 automatic S10 hits. Should kill about 8 boys on average. If thye try and charge you, inflict the same again as overwatch. If the Orks still make the charge, fight and then withdrawn in your next movement phase and shoot again at full effect thanks to the "Implacable" rule.

Against armies like Orks, I have found using a screen of Wave Serpents with triple shuricannons is quite effective. Spend the first turn thinning the horde as much as possible. Serpents hopefully take the charge without being too badly damaged. Next turn, the serpents withdrawn and shoot again thanks to FLY while the Avengers/Guardians inside hop out and shred the Orks.

Rangers can actually do quite well against orks by targeting Wierdboyz and other poorly armoured characters.

Thank you so much for all the advices, I'll take everything in consideration!

What are peoples thoughts on going all in on a buffed up unit of 10 Wraithguard/blades using the Wraith Host specialist detachment?

Take a unit of 10 D-scythe Wraithguard, give them a 4++ from the Spiritseer for 2CP, cast Protect so they are 2+, 3++.

You can also add more defense with the Alaitoc trait, Conceal, Fortune, and Lightning Fast Reflexes.

With the Matchless Agility strat they can move 11" and still shoot. With Quicken you can add another 6-11" to that (can matchless agility be used on a Quicken move?). Fire and Fade might also be nice to re position after shooting.

With T6, 2+, 3++, 5+++, and up to -3 to hit they are like the deathstars of old. Their overwatch would be horrendous and they can fall back and still shoot.

That much support is probably overkill, they would be good enough with Alaitoc, 4++ Spirit Shield and Protect.

I know it’s slightly separate, but, it appears the Ynnari “mini-dex” is appearing in next months WD.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/773341.page#10394467

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on going all in on a buffed up unit of 10 Wraithguard/blades using the Wraith Host specialist detachment?

Take a unit of 10 D-scythe Wraithguard, give them a 4++ from the Spiritseer for 2CP, cast Protect so they are 2+, 3++.

You can also add more defense with the Alaitoc trait, Conceal, Fortune, and Lightning Fast Reflexes.

With the Matchless Agility strat they can move 11" and still shoot. With Quicken you can add another 6-11" to that (can matchless agility be used on a Quicken move?). Fire and Fade might also be nice to re position after shooting.

With T6, 2+, 3++, 5+++, and up to -3 to hit they are like the deathstars of old. Their overwatch would be horrendous and they can fall back and still shoot.

That much support is probably overkill, they would be good enough with Alaitoc, 4++ Spirit Shield and Protect.

I have fought that unit with axes, and I have fought that unit with swords. Its tough as hell, but its ~400 points of walking statues, with another ~250 of psychic support.

It takes all game but I do wear them down. Can D-scythes shoot in close combat like pistols?

They can't shoot like pistols, but Wraithguard have the "Implacable" special rule which lets them fall back and shoot.

I'm thinking the D-Scythes Wraithguard are the way to go because they have a bigger threat range than Wraithblades (5" move, 6" advance + 8" range vs. 5" move + 2D6" charge), and their guns are good vs. a larger variety of targets than Wraithcannons.

It's a huge points investment but they might be worth it.

Example list:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
They can't shoot like pistols, but Wraithguard have the "Implacable" special rule which lets them fall back and shoot.

I'm thinking the D-Scythes Wraithguard are the way to go because they have a bigger threat range than Wraithblades (5" move, 6" advance + 8" range vs. 5" move + 2D6" charge), and their guns are good vs. a larger variety of targets than Wraithcannons.

It's a huge points investment but they might be worth it.

Example list:

Spoiler:

Alaitoc Wraith Host Battalion:

Spiritseer- Protect/Jinx (Warlord, re-roll psy test)
Spiritseer- Conceal

6x Rangers
8x Storm Guardians
8x Storm Guardians

10x Wraithguard, D-Scythes

Crimson Hunter Exarch

Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Biel-tan Battalion:

Farseer - Doom, Fortune
Warlock - Quicken (re-roll psy test relic)

5x Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avengers

9x Shining Spears (Deep Strike and use Biel-tan strat for +2" to charge)


-This should give a very reliable psychic phase with lots of re-rolls, and the option to use the Seer Council strat on the Farseer and Warlock.
-2 Battalions provides a lot of command points which this list needs.
-The big unit of WWP Shining Spears gives something else to put all the Psy buffs on if the Wraith go down.
-3 Fire Prisms and a Crimson Hunter Exarch give great fire support and draw fire from the Wraith ( or vice versa).
-6 cheap troops units for objectives and intercepting smites.

Anyone who charges you is never letting you out of close combat. And you aren't going to get to fire over watch.

And when your psychic fails (and it will eventually) you will crumple.


That said if you like it go for it, my buddy who plays a wraith guard/wraith blade list does quite well with it. Just pointing out the weak spots. Or how I have seen it fail. When you know the fail state you can plan for it.

Headlss wrote:

Anyone who charges you is never letting you out of close combat. And you aren't going to get to fire over watch.

And when your psychic fails (and it will eventually) you will crumple.


That said if you like it go for it, my buddy who plays a wraith guard/wraith blade list does quite well with it. Just pointing out the weak spots. Or how I have seen it fail. When you know the fail state you can plan for it.

I would think the biggest problem will be going second against something like Dark Reapers or Looters that don't care about negative to hit modifiers.

Failing psychic tests is just a risk you have to take (why must all our powers be WC 7!?), the Alaitoc trait, LFR and Spirit Shield will at least provide some protection that I don't have to roll for.

Denying the Wraithguard overwatch and locking them in combat is a lot easier said than done though. Soaking up the overwatch with an expendable unit is not easy (it has to survive ~20 S10 AP-4 autohits), and charging from outside of 8" is not a reliable solution. Locking them in combat isn't easy either, both players have some control of model positioning and casualty removal, and the Wraithguard can have up to 20 S5 AP-1 D3D attacks with the +1 A strat.

No overwatch if they charge from outside of 8" or send in a haracter that cant be overwatched first then wrap up with other units.

Also wraith cannons 12" are d6 damage. you get less shots but better range and more utility vs big monsters/vehicles. Less points also.

I hope you smash it regardless.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Headlss wrote:

Anyone who charges you is never letting you out of close combat. And you aren't going to get to fire over watch.

And when your psychic fails (and it will eventually) you will crumple.


That said if you like it go for it, my buddy who plays a wraith guard/wraith blade list does quite well with it. Just pointing out the weak spots. Or how I have seen it fail. When you know the fail state you can plan for it.

I would think the biggest problem will be going second against something like Dark Reapers or Looters that don't care about negative to hit modifiers.

Failing psychic tests is just a risk you have to take (why must all our powers be WC 7!?), the Alaitoc trait, LFR and Spirit Shield will at least provide some protection that I don't have to roll for.

Denying the Wraithguard overwatch and locking them in combat is a lot easier said than done though. Soaking up the overwatch with an expendable unit is not easy (it has to survive ~20 S10 AP-4 autohits), and charging from outside of 8" is not a reliable solution. Locking them in combat isn't easy either, both players have some control of model positioning and casualty removal, and the Wraithguard can have up to 20 S5 AP-1 D3D attacks with the +1 A strat.

Denying the over watch is easy for an army built to do it. I would expect you to play 5 games and never over watch with the wraiths. Someone either has a charcter, a special unit, a strategem or a support weapon like the Nu Marines supressors. If all else fails they will find a handy corner to hide behind or maybe just try to roll a 9 or better. If they can't do any of that they won't charge that unit.

We must be in different metas I suppose. I often run an Autarch skyrunner with banshee mask from the index, and occasionally see a smash captain who can ignore overwatch (I think), but that's it. Of course any unit that intends to charge out of deep strike is doing so from outside of 8" anyway.
I don't expect they'll get to fire overwatch much either, but mostly because people won't charge into it, which is fine.

If getting charged does end up being a problem then Wraithblades might be a better choice. Needs testing.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
We must be in different metas I suppose. I often run an Autarch skyrunner with banshee mask from the index, and occasionally see a smash captain who can ignore overwatch (I think), but that's it. Of course any unit that intends to charge out of deep strike is doing so from outside of 8" anyway.
I don't expect they'll get to fire overwatch much either, but mostly because people won't charge into it, which is fine.

If getting charged does end up being a problem then Wraithblades might be a better choice. Needs testing.

Do you get charged much? I never get charged. Any one who comes withing 30" of me get charged by me first. So I don't know if its different meta's or I am just playing a different army than you.

I run red grief bikes and Hex mask Covens.

I have small game tomorrow vs. Hive Fleet Kraken. As is customary in our group, we’ve already shared our lists on the Watsapp group, so we’re locked in:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list:


++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [27 PL, 531pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter [8 PL, 160pts]: 2x Bright Lance

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 161pts]: Two Starcannons

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: Spirit Stones

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [39 PL, 644pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Biel-Tan: Natural Leader, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Karandras [8 PL, 125pts]

+ Troops +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Support Weapons [3 PL, 37pts]
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver

++ Total: [66 PL, 1175pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My opponent’s:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [72 PL, 1249pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 205pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: The Horror, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Synaptic Lynchpin, Wings

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 205pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Wings

+ Troops +

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 145pts]: 29x Hormagaunt

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 140pts]: 28x Hormagaunt

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]

Tyrannofex [11 PL, 208pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo

+ Flyer +

Hive Crone [8 PL, 143pts]: Stinger Salvo

++ Total: [72 PL, 1249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I reckon I need to kill the flyers first, hopefully leave me with air superiority. Any other advice is very welcome!

 Argive wrote:
No overwatch if they charge from outside of 8" or send in a haracter that cant be overwatched first then wrap up with other units.

Just so there's no confusion, the character keyword doesn't do anything against overwatch. Many relics/traits/strats do allow a single character to ignore overwatch though.

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
I have small game tomorrow vs. Hive Fleet Kraken. As is customary in our group, we’ve already shared our lists on the Watsapp group, so we’re locked in:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list:


++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [27 PL, 531pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter [8 PL, 160pts]: 2x Bright Lance

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 161pts]: Two Starcannons

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: Spirit Stones

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [39 PL, 644pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Biel-Tan: Natural Leader, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Karandras [8 PL, 125pts]

+ Troops +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Support Weapons [3 PL, 37pts]
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver

++ Total: [66 PL, 1175pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My opponent’s:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [72 PL, 1249pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 205pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: The Horror, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Synaptic Lynchpin, Wings

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 205pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Wings

+ Troops +

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 145pts]: 29x Hormagaunt

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 140pts]: 28x Hormagaunt

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 170pts]

Tyrannofex [11 PL, 208pts]: Rupture Cannon, Stinger Salvo

+ Flyer +

Hive Crone [8 PL, 143pts]: Stinger Salvo

++ Total: [72 PL, 1249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I reckon I need to kill the flyers first, hopefully leave me with air superiority. Any other advice is very welcome!

How mean do you want to be ? this could be optimised to brutal efficency.

The only slight tweak I would sugest is that If you are running vypers in bieltan I would run them with shuriken cannons as you get re-roll ones and more shots + point ssaved can be spent on more shuri cannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fresus wrote:

 Argive wrote:
No overwatch if they charge from outside of 8" or send in a haracter that cant be overwatched first then wrap up with other units.

Just so there's no confusion, the character keyword doesn't do anything against overwatch. Many relics/traits/strats do allow a single character to ignore overwatch though.

Absolutely no confusion. I said characters that cant be overwatched. Suppose should ahve said units/characters that cant be overwatched.

My Vypers are built with Starcannons, and mostly act as bodyguard to the Farseer Skyrunner as he zips around “executing” and “smiting”, but also benefit from Natural Leader so I don’t need to waste a power on “guide”.

I know it’s a weird list at a weird points level, but having a toddler means bigger games are tricky to get in, and when I do manage a game, I try to play as much of my new stuff as possible. Just so happens my most recent acquisitions are an Alaitoc Airwing and the Striking Scorpion Phoenix Lord...

So anyway... more looking for advice on target priority etc. do Synapses need to die first, or will I risk getting overwhelmed by the gaunts if I ignore them too long?

Cheers!

NuhJuhKuh wrote:

So anyway... more looking for advice on target priority etc. do Synapses need to die first, or will I risk getting overwhelmed by the gaunts if I ignore them too long?

Cheers!

Generally, killing Synapse is a good way to make gaunts disappear quicker. Your heavy weapons would be aimed at big bugs and everything else would be aimed at the little griblies. It is going to be one heck of an uphill battle being down 74 points in a game this size. Especially when that amount of points could buy you more shots to kill said griblies. You are severely lacking in anti-chaff firepower. From what I can see, only the Vyper unit has any real hope of killing ~10 models a turn. So, effectively, you have all your eggs in one very fragile basket. Defending those should be your number 1 priority. That means using your flyers to kill his big shooty bugs. The Exocrine should die first, then the Crone, and then the Tyrannofex. The Exocrine can throw out a dozen or so S7 AP-3 (?) D2 (3 with a stratagem) shots. One volley from that can be enough to clear the Vypers right off. The Tyrannofex will have a harder time deciding its targets, but if it is shooting at Flyers you are in good shape.

Use your range for the 1st turn or two to your advantage. Stay back to deny the Tyrants an early charge. They will be the Flyers' targets after the Big Gun bugs are dealt with, Vypers will focus on the Crone/Tyrants to help mitigate the fast threats. The only thing you want in close combat with a Hive Tyrant is Rangers. You are thinking ''Well, Karandras packs a mean punch, maybe I should throw him in there to tear it up!'' And I'd only recommend that if you have a Hive Tyrant down to 2-4 wounds. They have a 4+ invul save that can easily negate the handful of attacks that Karandras can throw out there. I hate to waste snipers on Gaunts the but the extra bullets are really needed there. Maybe you'll get lots of 6's to wound and net some Mortal wounds to help out a bit more. I really wish you had 6 Dire Avengers or 5 Swooping Hawks to throw in there to help out with the Gaunts as well..... But it really is all on the Vypers (9 dead hormagaunts-ish), the Farseer (2 dead hormagaunts with guns, and ~6 from psychic powers assuming they go off), the Rangers similarly can expect ~10-11 kills between them. Those are numbers you can work with, but only the Rangers can do their work from a safe distance. Anything else risks being charged/wiped by the nastly Tyranid melee. Rangers focus on little bugs the whole game....

It'll be a rough game, but if you can manage the threats well enough early on you could very well triumph. Just kill his range and use your speed as best as you can.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
We must be in different metas I suppose. I often run an Autarch skyrunner with banshee mask from the index, and occasionally see a smash captain who can ignore overwatch (I think), but that's it. Of course any unit that intends to charge out of deep strike is doing so from outside of 8" anyway.
I don't expect they'll get to fire overwatch much either, but mostly because people won't charge into it, which is fine.

If getting charged does end up being a problem then Wraithblades might be a better choice. Needs testing.

And generally anybody charging out of deep strike does so with either reroll(s), 3d6 moving or has modifier or combos. Evil suns with their 78% chance to charge, ork walkers that can do 3d6" with reroll all or individual dices, bloodletters with their 3d6, bansheesh with +3, blood angel smash captains with 3d6 etc etc etc etc.

Very few units charge out of deep strike without making it much more reliable.

tneva82 wrote:


And generally anybody charging out of deep strike does so with either reroll(s), 3d6 moving or has modifier or combos. Evil suns with their 78% chance to charge, ork walkers that can do 3d6" with reroll all or individual dices, bloodletters with their 3d6, bansheesh with +3, blood angel smash captains with 3d6 etc etc etc etc.

Very few units charge out of deep strike without making it much more reliable.

Yeah I mention that somewhere above. Units assaulting out of deep strike is the most common example of things that will dodge flamer overwatch. Screening out deep strikers is essential for any list.

I had a sort of test of a Wraith deathstar last night. Only 1k points list in a weird 2 vs 1 game. I ran 10 Ghostsword Wraithblades, gave them 2+, 3++, 5+++, -2 to hit, but they weren't getting shot at anyway. They counter-charged 10 Warp Talons (who had a +2" to charge out of deep strike, screening wasn't a problem) and 3 Obliterators that had just had a go at my Wraithknight, and killed all of them. So a successful test I guess, but it wasn't really a proper game.

Goobi2 wrote:


Generally, killing Synapse is a good way to make gaunts disappear quicker. Your heavy weapons would be aimed at big bugs and everything else would be aimed at the little griblies. It is going to be one heck of an uphill battle being down 74 points in a game this size. Especially when that amount of points could buy you more shots to kill said griblies. You are severely lacking in anti-chaff firepower. From what I can see, only the Vyper unit has any real hope of killing ~10 models a turn. So, effectively, you have all your eggs in one very fragile basket. Defending those should be your number 1 priority. That means using your flyers to kill his big shooty bugs. The Exocrine should die first, then the Crone, and then the Tyrannofex. The Exocrine can throw out a dozen or so S7 AP-3 (?) D2 (3 with a stratagem) shots. One volley from that can be enough to clear the Vypers right off. The Tyrannofex will have a harder time deciding its targets, but if it is shooting at Flyers you are in good shape.

Use your range for the 1st turn or two to your advantage. Stay back to deny the Tyrants an early charge. They will be the Flyers' targets after the Big Gun bugs are dealt with, Vypers will focus on the Crone/Tyrants to help mitigate the fast threats. The only thing you want in close combat with a Hive Tyrant is Rangers. You are thinking ''Well, Karandras packs a mean punch, maybe I should throw him in there to tear it up!'' And I'd only recommend that if you have a Hive Tyrant down to 2-4 wounds. They have a 4+ invul save that can easily negate the handful of attacks that Karandras can throw out there. I hate to waste snipers on Gaunts the but the extra bullets are really needed there. Maybe you'll get lots of 6's to wound and net some Mortal wounds to help out a bit more. I really wish you had 6 Dire Avengers or 5 Swooping Hawks to throw in there to help out with the Gaunts as well..... But it really is all on the Vypers (9 dead hormagaunts-ish), the Farseer (2 dead hormagaunts with guns, and ~6 from psychic powers assuming they go off), the Rangers similarly can expect ~10-11 kills between them. Those are numbers you can work with, but only the Rangers can do their work from a safe distance. Anything else risks being charged/wiped by the nastly Tyranid melee. Rangers focus on little bugs the whole game....

It'll be a rough game, but if you can manage the threats well enough early on you could very well triumph. Just kill his range and use your speed as best as you can.

Thanks for that! FWIW I’m not playing down; I forgot to add the extra two Shadow Weavers!

Also, while I appreciate Karandras would be wasted fighting a Tyrant, what about using him to hold up the arrillary for a turn while I shoot down other stuff?

Cheers!

So, I'm planning to paint my Craftworlds as Mymeara, but I don't see any Craftworld Attribute for Mymeara in the Codex since it isn't a major Craftworld. Does that mean I can use any attribute or is there an Attribute most associated with Mymeara?

Thanks in advance!

SG

No matter how you paint your minis, you can choose whichever Craftworlds trait you want. You can follow the Ulthwé paint scheme and still play them as Alaitoc.

Back in the Day there was not a craftworld trait but more or less different army set ups or formations.

Every craftworld could do any of them.

So you had Swordwind with exarchs
you had a Wild host with jetbikes
you had black guardians and pyskers.

When I play my craftworld painted all the same has 2 Fieldcraft Detachments and 1 Wild Rider detachment.

The easy way for my opponent to know what is what is that the Wraithlord and any type of jetbike/viper is in the (saim-hann) detachment....everything else is (alaitoc)

NuhJuhKuh wrote:

Thanks for that! FWIW I’m not playing down; I forgot to add the extra two Shadow Weavers!

Also, while I appreciate Karandras would be wasted fighting a Tyrant, what about using him to hold up the arrillary for a turn while I shoot down other stuff?

Cheers!

That will definitely help then!

As for Karandras vs Artillery, Karandras really wouldn't able to get locked in with back field units until at least turn 2. Ideally, by that time most of that Artillery should be killed off using your flying units. It would be a good use for him to try and lock or finish off whatever big shooty bug does survive, however. I don't remember those bugs having too scary options in melee, so he may be able to survive a prolonged combat if need be.

dilemma about my list.

So ….I find that I play to table the opponent and thus I often lose do to the mission.

I get far behind in the first couple rounds and then catch up on turns 3, 4 and 5 with the opponent almost eliminated.

I feel if I am more aggressive on the mission I will lose a lot of units.

My last game summed this up perfectly. I waited til turn 4 to move in. On turn 4 he had like 7 models left. VPs were 11 to 10 not in my favor. I had a 50/50 chance to table him on turn 5 but it was getting late and we packed it up.

If I had charged in to the objective on turn 3 I would have taken significant losses, but probably would have won on VPs

Since my list is slow out of the gate what do you suggest I look forward to timing my sacrifices for mission agenda?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of which, I experimented with the Wild Host detachment in that game. It worked wonderfully.

My Nova Lance Autarch charged in and killed an Ancient and fled. Next turn he charged again and killed 2 more characters.

But at the cost of so many CPs I wont do that again for a 1 model unit.

I am not sure what unit could use this to best effect. I really don't like the idea of any of the other units in CC.

Game went REALLY well in my favour - a combination, I think, of 1) filthy Alatioc Airwing 2) getting first turn 3) getting good cards 3a) my opponent getting terrible cards

My opponent slightly rejigged his list to include more Synapse (compared to list posted above, now had 30 each of Termagaunts and Hormagaunts, and a min unit of Warriors), but still had two Flyrants, two heavy-gunners and the Crone.

Game Round 1: Flyers & Farseer (and some other stuff) ganged up on Warlord Flyrant... and killed it, netting me 3 VPs in one go. Opponent retaliates by swarming forward with chaff and charging Hemlock with second Flyrant, but JUST failing to kill Hemlock. Also one of the big guns kills 2.5 Vypers, not quite getting First Strike.

Game Round 2: I kill Flyrant no.2, the Crone, and enough of the Hormagaunts on my left flank that the rest crumble from lack of a Synapse in range. Also, I get really good cards, and claim a bunch of objectives with stationary Rangers and and Support Weapons. Oponoent kills my Hemlock.

Game round 3: Karandras and third unit of Rangers drop in, claim more objectives. Flyers kill Exocrine (I think?) Not whole lo of effective shooting from Tyranids. I get more points

Game round 4: I get more jammy cards, but get greedy and use last CP to "Fire and Fade" Jetseer to central objective, not expecting Tyrannofex to have enough BS to bring him down (oops); Karadras runs along backfield to try and engage Warriors. 2nd unit of Gaunts wiped out with shooting, but so is last Vyper and the Crimson Hunter not-Exarh

Game round 5: Tyranofex down to one wound - Karandras shoots it off with a cheeky shurican shot (!) before charging Warriors and *almost* wiping them out in one combat phase (I think they might be his ideal opponents - "infantry" keyword so Mandiblasters work on 'em, 2+ to wound with claw which also negates armour save and does d3 wounds)

Game round 6: wipeout - 22-5 in favour of Eldar

I don't think I'll bring the airwing out again in games under 1750 from now on - they were a bit filthy, and I don't want to lose any friends!

The game was "great craic" as they say over here (both myself and my opponent are ex-pat Scots living in Ireland), notwithstanding the feline interference. I might try and post pictures at some point...

 admironheart wrote:
dilemma about my list.

So ….I find that I play to table the opponent and thus I often lose do to the mission.

I get far behind in the first couple rounds and then catch up on turns 3, 4 and 5 with the opponent almost eliminated.

I feel if I am more aggressive on the mission I will lose a lot of units.

My last game summed this up perfectly. I waited til turn 4 to move in. On turn 4 he had like 7 models left. VPs were 11 to 10 not in my favor. I had a 50/50 chance to table him on turn 5 but it was getting late and we packed it up.

If I had charged in to the objective on turn 3 I would have taken significant losses, but probably would have won on VPs

Since my list is slow out of the gate what do you suggest I look forward to timing my sacrifices for mission agenda?

.

I think a general rule in 40k is that you're better off using killy units that rush forwards and threaten to do masssive damage at close range, rather than killy units that sit in your deployment zone doing damage at long range.

This is because the former type of unit will limit the opponents ability to move forward and claim objectives, whilst allowing your own objective grabbers to move forwards. If all your damage output is coming from units like Dark Reapers, Crimson Hunters and Fire Prisms, the opponents units are just as dead sitting in their deployment zone as they are moving onto midfield objectives, so they might as well move forwards. If all your damage output comes from Wraithguard/blades/Knights/lords, fire dragons, Shining Spears, and big units of Guardians, then your opponent will be more hesitant to move forwards.

The obvious problem here is that stuff like Crimson Hunters and Dark Reapers are very good at what they do, whereas Wraith units, Fire Dragons and Guardians are not so much.

I'm not sure describing the problem helps you solve it though!

Here is a quick list that tries to play to this idea:

If you're going to be using Avengers you may want to look at Asurman he makes them a much better unit. You may also want to investigate Banshees. They're fast, killy and, relatively cheap. If you drop the wraithblades they may balance out the cost of Asuman and the banshees.

The Avengers are just there to be cheap scoring units. I'd have 6 units of rangers instead, but there aren't enough points. Storm Guardians are the cheapest troop we have, followed by Avengers.

Banshees do fit the role of a fast threat that does damage at close range, but they are really poor these days. The best use for them is tying up shooty units thanks to being fast and denying overwatch.

Asurmen gives DAs a 4++, which sounds great. But how much does it really do?

DAs are cheap-ish troops. T3 4+. So they're going to eat mostly AP0 or occasionally low AP. Any AP0 cares not one whit about a 4++. And they're small (5 models) with reasonable range, so they'll often get cover - meaning even AP-1 often won't care about the 4++. So it's not so common it matters. And, even when it does, you're often only cutting casualties by a margin. At the very best, you could be getting half the casualties - but usually it either doesn't matter, or only marginally matters. Going from 5+ to a 4++ on T3 infantry would matter on cheap GEQ like Guardsmen, but at 11ppm, a T3 4++ is still fragile.

To make matters worse, it's only 2/3 of the wounds on the unit that benefit. 1/3 of the wounds on the unit are the Exarch - who has a built-in 4++.

I actually find the 5++ Asurmen gives other Aspects more useful - because almost all the other aspects attract heavier weapons.

Asurmen is a fun beatstick, but I don't think a large core of DA with him in the center is going to do much.

Bharring wrote:
Asurmen gives DAs a 4++, which sounds great. But how much does it really do?

DAs are cheap-ish troops. T3 4+. So they're going to eat mostly AP0 or occasionally low AP. Any AP0 cares not one whit about a 4++. And they're small (5 models) with reasonable range, so they'll often get cover - meaning even AP-1 often won't care about the 4++. So it's not so common it matters. And, even when it does, you're often only cutting casualties by a margin. At the very best, you could be getting half the casualties - but usually it either doesn't matter, or only marginally matters. Going from 5+ to a 4++ on T3 infantry would matter on cheap GEQ like Guardsmen, but at 11ppm, a T3 4++ is still fragile.

To make matters worse, it's only 2/3 of the wounds on the unit that benefit. 1/3 of the wounds on the unit are the Exarch - who has a built-in 4++.

I actually find the 5++ Asurmen gives other Aspects more useful - because almost all the other aspects attract heavier weapons.

Asurmen is a fun beatstick, but I don't think a large core of DA with him in the center is going to do much.

I realy like the idea of asurmen especialy if you can have 3 big blobs of DA's. The only gripe I have is he does not gte path of command or let re-roll ones.
A blob of 10 with protect and alitoic would be -1 to hit and 3++ Pretty good for troops.

3 blobs of 10 with asurmen warlock and avatar at core fanning out across the board sound slike fun.
Have yet to test this.