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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I think it's always worth reserving at least 3 CP for Linked Fire. It allows you to leave your fire prisms all over the board without psychic support and coupled with Alaitoc and the potential for LFR no one really goes for fire prisms (at least in my experience) unless they actually commit or have killed off your fliers.

But that raises the counter argument (for me anyway) that by using Expert Crafters, the Prisms still don't need Psychic support, and if you also have the Flyers, the Prisms will be left alone and thus wouldn't need Alaitoc (or at least the Always Cover trait could be enough to discourage them be targeted before the Flyers)

And if I am not used Linked Fire every turn (as I do now) that's more left for LFR and other Strats. Man, this is a hard choice for me

-

 Argive wrote:
Aiming for slamanders hand me down & Cover list.

Has anyone came up with a decent brigade with the salamanders trait? I had a play around and the troops feel like more of a tax than ever before and the elite slots don't really gel with this trait.

I've not played with a Brigade yet, but Wraithguard get a lot of use out of both traits. Being in cover most of the time helps their survivability, and the rerolls make wraith cannon much better. I don't think they're a top choice, but they're definitely not bad. However, they are definitely not cheap.

If you wanted to try Shadow Spectres their minimum unit size is 3 so you can get a squad for less than 100 points.

 Galef wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I think it's always worth reserving at least 3 CP for Linked Fire. It allows you to leave your fire prisms all over the board without psychic support and coupled with Alaitoc and the potential for LFR no one really goes for fire prisms (at least in my experience) unless they actually commit or have killed off your fliers.

But that raises the counter argument (for me anyway) that by using Expert Crafters, the Prisms still don't need Psychic support, and if you also have the Flyers, the Prisms will be left alone and thus wouldn't need Alaitoc (or at least the Always Cover trait could be enough to discourage them be targeted before the Flyers)

And if I am not used Linked Fire every turn (as I do now) that's more left for LFR and other Strats. Man, this is a hard choice for me

-

Ah I should have clarified, I meant that using Alaitoc and if my opponent thinks I may LFR one of them, they won't shoot them and if they do, it's with weapons that are high enough AP for always in cover to not matter.

Freeing up CP for other strats is something I like the idea of though, as my army is pretty intensive on those.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Freeing up CP for other strats is something I like the idea of though, as my army is pretty intensive on those.

Indeed. Part of the appeal for Expert Crafters for me is that my son actually plays Salamanders and tends to not burn through CPs as fast I do.
I was thinking that with the trait, my Autarchs which I like for other reasons and my Farseer casting Doom, I shouldn't need as many CPs for Command reroll, or even Linked Fire if my opponent doesn't have a big enough target.
I'm basically wanting Linked Fire to be a back-up, just-in-case Strat, rather than the mandatory, even turn Strat

Heck, even just using Linked Fire for 1 turn, but relying on the Expert Crafters rerolls the rest of the game seems like a good option IMO

-

So I concocted this list. Not sure if it makes any sense as it feels a bit mad.

the spearhead is run with the new salamnders/always in cover or ignore cover trait.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [27 PL, 8CP, 488pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ [12 PL, 202pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 135pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts], Witchblade

+ Troops [15 PL, 286pts] +

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender [160pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]

Storm Guardians [3 PL, 48pts]
. 8x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [48pts]

Storm Guardians [3 PL, 48pts]
. 8x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [48pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [57 PL, 4CP, 969pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [4CP] +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [5CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Wraith Host [-1CP]

+ HQ [9 PL, 184pts] +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 119pts]: Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun [14pts], Laser Lance [8pts], Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol
. Shiftshroud of Alanssair

+ Troops [9 PL, 180pts] +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

+ Elites [39 PL, 605pts] +

Shadow Spectres [19 PL, 225pts]
. 7x Shadow Spectre [196pts]: 7x Prism Rifle [140pts]
. Shadow Spectre Exarch [29pts]: Haywire Launcher [17pts]

Wraithguard [20 PL, 380pts]: Wraithcannon [150pts], 10x Wraithguard [230pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [30 PL, 1CP, 540pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [1CP] +

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ [4 PL, 99pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Reaper Launcher [22pts], Star Glaive [6pts]

+ Heavy Support [26 PL, 441pts] +

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 134pts]
. 3x Dark Reaper [102pts]: 3x Reaper Launcher [66pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [32pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts]

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 107pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher [27pts]

Support Weapons [9 PL, 120pts]
. Support Weapon [3 PL, 40pts]: Vibro Cannon [15pts]
. Support Weapon [3 PL, 40pts]: Vibro Cannon [15pts]
. Support Weapon [3 PL, 40pts]: Vibro Cannon [15pts]

Support Weapons [6 PL, 80pts]
. Support Weapon [3 PL, 40pts]: Vibro Cannon [15pts]
. Support Weapon [3 PL, 40pts]: Vibro Cannon [15pts]

++ Total: [114 PL, 13CP, 1,997pts] ++

I initially had 6 Vibros but took one out to make room for more reaper/spectre.

3CP for web way strike the guardians and Wraiths. Spirit seer drops with the relic and and spirit shields on the wraiths hopefuly casts protect.

Leaves 8 CP to play with for the battle -3 for celestial shield and LFR. 1 Cp for seer council to ensure conceal/fortune goes of on wither specters guardians or wraiths plus doom& guide.

Leaves 4 CP to play with for 2nd LFR/Celestial shield and the MW vs fliers strat from the AML.

Shouldn't need too many re-rolls as the spearhead will have the new salamanders trait and ignores cover.

How does the new rule interact with AML. If I chosen to do the D6 shots, can I then make an additional attack with the Str8 -2 AP ?

I actually quite like the madness!

Here's what I'd suggest, take it with a pinch of salt... Drop the Spectres. They're cool but marines laugh at minus to hit now, they will be shredded as soon as a Chapter Master looks at them funny. Lose a reaper and lose the autarch's fusion gun - that gives you about enough for two wave serpents.

Hardly revolutionary I know, but I think they'd fit really well into this list, as they'd be near the top of the priority list for your opponent. Each contains a reaper squad (a huge buff to their survivability as you know!) and a cheeky storm squad - that's a really big buff to their usefulness, as they hop out T2 or 3 to wrap and trap or cap an objective. I've been sticking them in gunny serpents recently and they do much better work than they otherwise do, and 8 is a great number to ride with reapers and an hq.

Personally I don't feel there is enough antitank in there for the list to work and the stuff that is there will get shot to pieces or is too slow to make a big enough impact.

I also think running the first battalion is a very expensive way to get Eldrad into your list. Those guardians would be better using the ignore cover trait and something else instead of FNP from Ulthwe.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Personally I don't feel there is enough antitank in there for the list to work and the stuff that is there will get shot to pieces or is too slow to make a big enough impact.

I also think running the first battalion is a very expensive way to get Eldrad into your list. Those guardians would be better using the ignore cover trait and something else instead of FNP from Ulthwe.

But then id loose the black guardian strat and eldrad and less synergy without 4++ 6+++ to make them either shoot twice or soak up a lot of fire power. Not sure its worth it but appreciete the feedback.

10 wraith cannons dropping in on a doomed alpha target with guide, Backed up by all the black guardian shuriken & reaper pot shots (with rerolls) and all the rerolling vibros not enough fire power?

Yeah the specters are there for fun. But at -4/-3 they could work lol

If anything I'd say there's too much anti tank personally.
Only the guardian bomb and the spectres offer any real chaff clearing. I'd suggest dropping the reapers and look at something like scatter or cannon bikes.

 Argive wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Personally I don't feel there is enough antitank in there for the list to work and the stuff that is there will get shot to pieces or is too slow to make a big enough impact.

I also think running the first battalion is a very expensive way to get Eldrad into your list. Those guardians would be better using the ignore cover trait and something else instead of FNP from Ulthwe.

But then id loose the black guardian strat and eldrad and less synergy without 4++ 6+++ to make them either shoot twice or soak up a lot of fire power. Not sure its worth it but appreciete the feedback.

10 wraith cannons dropping in on a doomed alpha target with guide, Backed up by all the black guardian shuriken & reaper pot shots (with rerolls) and all the rerolling vibros not enough fire power?

Yeah the specters are there for fun. But at -4/-3 they could work lol

Wraithguard will kill something when they land but they can be screened out really easily and they're slow models, they might kill something, but they'll be wiped off the table asap.

I love Shadow Spectres, so tbh you should just keep em in!

kingheff wrote:
If anything I'd say there's too much anti tank personally.
Only the guardian bomb and the spectres offer any real chaff clearing. I'd suggest dropping the reapers and look at something like scatter or cannon bikes.

I do have 2 tempest launchers in there... but yeah I agree it seems bit light on anit horde.

Did have a configuration of 3WW with BL/sca. I think that lends itself to re rolls and ignore cover well. The dual battalion is a tax for the wraiths sadly. I cant bring myself to min max it and dropping the second battalion & wraiths as the build is around the wraiths and specialist detatchement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Personally I don't feel there is enough antitank in there for the list to work and the stuff that is there will get shot to pieces or is too slow to make a big enough impact.

I also think running the first battalion is a very expensive way to get Eldrad into your list. Those guardians would be better using the ignore cover trait and something else instead of FNP from Ulthwe.

But then id loose the black guardian strat and eldrad and less synergy without 4++ 6+++ to make them either shoot twice or soak up a lot of fire power. Not sure its worth it but appreciete the feedback.

10 wraith cannons dropping in on a doomed alpha target with guide, Backed up by all the black guardian shuriken & reaper pot shots (with rerolls) and all the rerolling vibros not enough fire power?

Yeah the specters are there for fun. But at -4/-3 they could work lol

Wraithguard will kill something when they land but they can be screened out really easily and they're slow models, they might kill something, but they'll be wiped off the table asap.

I love Shadow Spectres, so tbh you should just keep em in!

Thats 30 t6 -1/-2/-3 2+/3++/5+++ (if all the buffs and strats apply) wounds. No army is shifting that very easily. Especialy if you have guardians pincering the other side. Its not perfect but its the best i can come up with making wraith soecialist combo and support weapons workable.

That's a huge amount of points though and your opponent would have to do something terrible for them to make their points back.

I've had a miserable time with Guardian bombs due to screening so I can only imagine how bad it is for 10 40mm bases with 12" range that costs double the points.

That being said, I do enjoy Wraithguard and want to get my own on the table at some point.

I've posted my Army list here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/781741.page

Would like some feedback on the best traits you think I should use for the detachments I've got

-

Since I generally field a lot of wraith constructs, I'm all over Wrath of the Dead. Combine that with Savage Blades, The Vigilus detachment, Ghostwalk spell, it's looking pretty fun. Second half f list will probably be Guardian based with Hail of Doom and Martial Citizenry.

I ran the no cover and ignores cover in my last game as we tend 2 run a lot of scenery. The no cover one i felt actually gave my opponent a slight benefit as he then didnt need to worry about it at all. This allowed him more manouvreability and positioning options. Maybe something to consider?

kryczek wrote:
I ran the no cover and ignores cover in my last game as we tend 2 run a lot of scenery. The no cover one i felt actually gave my opponent a slight benefit as he then didnt need to worry about it at all. This allowed him more manouvreability and positioning options. Maybe something to consider?

I kind of agree. In general CWE units either have little to no AP and therefore shouldn't be shooting are targets with decent Armour that would benefit from cover, or the AP is SO good that cover doesn't matter anyway.
So it's hard for me to see the "ignores cover" trait as something worthwhile on a big detachment, outside of a few niche units/weapons like AP-1 Shuriken spam and EMLs

-

kryczek wrote:
I ran the no cover and ignores cover in my last game as we tend 2 run a lot of scenery. The no cover one i felt actually gave my opponent a slight benefit as he then didnt need to worry about it at all. This allowed him more manouvreability and positioning options. Maybe something to consider?

Did you feel the cover trait gave more survivability over alitoic?

What roughly did you run in your list ?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Always in cover seems good, but you're not getting 2+ saves like Raven Guard intercessors get as they slog up the board. If you're running MSU squads they shouldn't be in LOS unless absolutely necessary or they should be sitting in a tank. The moment your dudes get into LOS, if they're a high enough threat, will be shot to pieces.

The Salamander reroll is a good trait, but Salamanders didn't see play even with the trait.

I quite like the look of Master Crafters on Wraithlords. They get a small number of pretty potent attacks so a reroll to hit and wound each phase is quite tasty. Similarly, always being in cover outside 12" means they are T8/2+ against most long-ranged AT. That is Land Raider durability at a fraction of the price. Most Grav tanks do pretty well from this combo in fact.

I can't remember off the top of my head as I have not used support platforms for a long time but do they count as separate units once deployed? If so, Master Crafters would be golden on them.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Always in cover seems good, but you're not getting 2+ saves like Raven Guard intercessors get as they slog up the board. If you're running MSU squads they shouldn't be in LOS unless absolutely necessary or they should be sitting in a tank. The moment your dudes get into LOS, if they're a high enough threat, will be shot to pieces.

The Salamander reroll is a good trait, but Salamanders didn't see play even with the trait.

I quite like the look of Master Crafters on Wraithlords. They get a small number of pretty potent attacks so a reroll to hit and wound each phase is quite tasty. Similarly, always being in cover outside 12" means they are T8/2+ against most long-ranged AT. That is Land Raider durability at a fraction of the price. Most Grav tanks do pretty well from this combo in fact.

I can't remember off the top of my head as I have not used support platforms for a long time but do they count as separate units once deployed? If so, Master Crafters would be golden on them.

Yes the platforms separate into individual units once deployed. The vibro cannon is only 40 points.. and You could field 9 of them. That's a lot of backfield zoning out and support firepower. I only run 2-3 and I really rate them. With the new re-rolls they can really zone out the backfield and don't need any psychic or Strat support.. Downside is you are giving up first strike/kill points quite easily but they require more than small arms fire to remove so they are fairly durable for their points.

Indeed wraithlord and salamnders/cover sounds sexy! Im looking forward to running that. Just the excuse I needed to get 2 more WL and convert them.

But I think the real winner is the Wraithseer with a BL/wraithcannon.. He does not look too shabby in this set up. 12W 2+ 5++ T8 not too bad for 120pts.. Actually its really good. Also fills a HQ slot which is a perk IMO..(I think the D-cannon is still too expensive). That's an excellent objective camper. Put 3 of them out with their buddy Wraithlords with similar set ups..

You can replace his useless Psychic powers with the new rise of the phoenix powers right ? The charge bonus power/MW output to make up for his like of smite.
Id say give mark of hunter to one shot some chars with no invuln at the cost of giving up warlord..to really spice it up. Heck I think ill go buy some wraithlords/wraith seers right now..

What do ya'll think ?

I'm very interested in vibro cannons myself, I'm thinking about spamming nine with a bit of proxying!
They do seem to encourage spamming with the cumulative effect of their guns.
For 360 points they put out a lot of firepower that gets really vicious when saturating one or two big targets.
I was thinking about the always in cover and guardian reroll ones traits would work great in a spearhead for this set up.

Wraithseer powers are much locked, they don't know smite so can't swap it for the runes of fortune, also they can't change their know powers from Ynnari ones as example.

Wraithseers powers are a bit odd, the advance and charge power is decent though, plus they can deny a power which is often useful.

They can take twilight gloom though, for always in cover. Nice for them as they tend to get close real quick. I prefer the wraith cannon on them personally, as BL gets shut of when you advance, and you should be advancing. I run two and have some success with them, but poison and hellfire hardcounter them.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Always in cover seems good, but you're not getting 2+ saves like Raven Guard intercessors get as they slog up the board. If you're running MSU squads they shouldn't be in LOS unless absolutely necessary or they should be sitting in a tank. The moment your dudes get into LOS, if they're a high enough threat, will be shot to pieces.

The Salamander reroll is a good trait, but Salamanders didn't see play even with the trait.

I quite like the look of Master Crafters on Wraithlords. They get a small number of pretty potent attacks so a reroll to hit and wound each phase is quite tasty. Similarly, always being in cover outside 12" means they are T8/2+ against most long-ranged AT. That is Land Raider durability at a fraction of the price. Most Grav tanks do pretty well from this combo in fact.

I can't remember off the top of my head as I have not used support platforms for a long time but do they count as separate units once deployed? If so, Master Crafters would be golden on them.

Yeah, Wraith units look like they're getting the biggest benefit from expert crafters. I tend to eliminate them immediately as being too slow and too expensive to take but this might pip them to be viable.

In regards to the support weapons, they sound pretty great right now but is there space for 9 of them in a standard list? Do they outperform the units in the Heavy slot that they compete with?

I like the idea of 3 double AML Wraithlords in a cheap Spearhead detachment, using Stealthy and the re-rolls.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
In regards to the support weapons, they sound pretty great right now but is there space for 9 of them in a standard list? Do they outperform the units in the Heavy slot that they compete with?

Maybe?

Vibro cannon are cheap, but you need at least 4 (and probably more like 6) to be worth it. So they're going to end up costing as much or more as any other heavy choice. 6 of them is a lot of firepower, though, and is pretty tough so long as you can keep the enemy at arm's length.

D-cannon are bit more difficult to use, but you can do just fine with 1 and probably don't want more than 3, as they have a tendency to play forward and risk getting overrun in assault.

Spinners are cheap, you don't need many, and they don't do much. They're good filler that can harass the enemy's filler, but they're not going to contribute much beyond that.

@Argive not really the +1 is still well better IMHO.

I was running 3 Wave serpents with 2x9 DA and 10 guardian's in them, a CHE and 10 Swooping hawks against guard @1750.

With me ignoring cover he seemed a lot more mobile as for him it was planet bowling ball. But hey it was only a trial.

Musing over a revisit of the Windrider Host now with Psychic Awakening. I don't have a lot of table-top experience so take with appropriate salt but these seem quite legit:

1, Howling Skysword of Galaleth & Witch Strike to get to a flat 5 damage. Low number of attacks and no AP but if one gets through then splat goes something.
2, Hail of Doom, Masterful Shots & Tempest of Blades. Looks like they stack to get your Shuriken to AP2/(4) for one turn, ignoring cover.

You've then also got the speed and enough in the opponents face that the new Impair Senses can do good work forcing anti-tank shots to go into things that are not your tanks.

Played 2 games today (Vigilus narrative so not hard core competitive). I ran a small wraith host in each game (second game also featured Ynnariquins).

I ran the wraiths as Vigilus Detachment with reroll charges on Spiritseer. I also ran a Bonesinger with the new Runes of Fortune. First game was Ghostwalk which I never got to use. The second game I used Fateful Divergence that was cast on a wraithlord each turn.

In both games, Wrath of the dead and Savage Blades was outstanding, especially when combined with Wrath of the Dead strategem in Vigilus. Seriously considering taking several sqds in serpents.

I’m curious what people think to running Eldrad with Witch Strike. I know he isn’t exactly a close combat beast but hitting on 2s, S5/AP-2/D3+2 damage sounds good to me and with Witch Strike going off on a 4 that gives a good chance to score his +1 to the rest of his powers? Just thinking it’s a shame he has to be Ulthwé and can’t benefit from a custom attribute to improve his number of attacks