Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It seems like it'd be rare to actually land all of that on either Guilliman or Magnus. Guilliman is going to be surrounded by other stuff so that you can't get a Smite off easily. If Tigurius is there he's probably denying at +1. Magnus gets 3 denies at +2 and so is very likely to interfere with your psychic phase.

In return, a surviving Guilliman without any buffs expects to kill 3 of your Warlocks even with Protect. In his own turn Magnus will probably land his own d6 Smite. Both SM and CSM psykers also have access to powers that strip a unit of its invuln save, and if these are manifested your unit is going to be very dead very fast.

This is also very telegraphed. You're rolling up with your Serpent, then getting out the next turn. Guilliman isn't going to stand there and let you charge him. Magnus might, after charging and killing your Serpent, but he's also not nearly as scared of your Conclave since he's got more wounds and can deny your powers.

Like, surely you do better just taking 6 or 7 Spiritseers instead of the Conclave. Now you get twice as many powers, including potentially 6 or 7 Smites, and you're really annoying to kill in CC because you're a bunch of separate units. You expect to kill Guilliman clean with 7 Smites without even having to charge, and even with Tigurius you're going to get 4 or 5 through. I don't think this is a great plan either, since it still relies on somehow getting right next to Guilliman, but Spiritseers just seem a lot better for this than a Conclave.

Okay, actually your idea is much better. 6 or 7 spirit seers is lower cost, more wounds, character keyword. They already hit on 2s in melee too, and their weapons do a flat 2 damage. I’d lose out on seer council, but part of the idea was to have enough reduncancy so that I don’t have to make every single psychic test.

Good call.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
I’m looking at my giant pile of painted warlocks (left over from Ulthwe Strike Force days), and looking for dangerous assaulty things to put into Wave Serpents for a mechanized assault army and wondering about a 10-warlock conclave.

Before you scoff, hear me out. In my meta I struggle with high-toughness characters with crazy effective saves (Guilliman and Magnus mainly) and the occasional big bug with venomthrope/malanthrope shrouding, and the odd superheavy.

So 10 warlocks jump out of a wave serpent, do a d6 mortal wound destructor, and pile into the character with 20 melee attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 2s. No AP, but these characters never have a save worse than 3+ anyway. Expected about 13 or 14 wounds, 2 or 3 pass through on a 2+ save, about 4 on a 3+.

So that already with the smite is maybe 5-7 wounds putting a decent hurt on the 9-wound characters (and probably taking down any lesser character).

Now add jinx, which the conclave can cast themselves in addition to destructor. Now add enhance, which the warlocks can also cast on themselves the same phase as jinx and destructor. The numbers start to look really good. Now Guilliman is trying to roll 15 or 18 3+ saves, after already having taken 3 or 4 mortal wounds.

Or, if it looks like a long fight, the conclave can cast protection on itself (instead of enhance) for some 3+ invulnerables.

And then you can add additional gravy on top of that: put a farseer in the serpent for seer council strategem and the option to doom the target. Put an autarch in the area to buff the hit rolls. None of this is really necessary—the warlocks can nearly do it on their own—but you need HQs anyway and they need to be in a serpent anyhow, so they might as well jump in on assassinating the lynchpin character of your opponent’s army.

So I haven’t played enough 8th edition yet to know if my ideas are crap, but please don’t reply with “You’re spending XXX points to kill a 360 point character!” It’s a mech assault army, so I’d be buying the serpents and HQs anyway.

I don’t see anything else I can put into a single serpent for 300 points that will do what a warlock conclave can do.

Oh wait, witchblades are d3 wounds! So double all those expected melee wound values (or, if you have my dice, just expect the single wound values).

You seem to say witchblades, but in this situation why wouldn't you spend the extra 4 points and have the singing spear? Exactly the same results in melee and psychic phases, but you add 10 more shooting attacks that hit on 3's and wound on 2's.

The spiritseers option might still be better though.

Hey blasphemous xenos ERR I mean Fellow Pointy Eared Space Brethren!

How does a Mechanicus / Astra Militarum / Imperial opponent actually go about killing one of our wonderful Scorpion Superheavy Tank (Alaitoc for -1 to be hit) ?

What do you folks think of alaitoc warp spiders as that character screen.

Similar to bringing a wave serpent. Points wise it does a bit more damage than what you'll get out of a war spider.COmpared to ranger they are higher damage against everything. and they don't lose SOOOOOOO much if they aren't in cover, and almost always have that -1 to hit. While in cover they can be as tough as rangers per point getting that 2+ save. They also maintain the deep strike options that rangers can get access too.

They are also really mobile with flicker jump. While they come just short against dire avengers in most damage catagories

Are they worth thinking about or do they fall short??

 ph34r wrote:
Hey blasphemous xenos ERR I mean Fellow Pointy Eared Space Brethren!

How does a Mechanicus / Astra Militarum / Imperial opponent actually go about killing one of our wonderful Scorpion Superheavy Tank (Alaitoc for -1 to be hit) ?

Mechanicus = Dunecrawlers or Dakkabots

Astra = Pretty much pick any units you want. Could even go for one of the IG superheavies, they're all better than the scorpion.

Imperial = See Astra. Or shoot with anything thats standing near a girly man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
What do you folks think of alaitoc warp spiders as that character screen.

Similar to bringing a wave serpent. Points wise it does a bit more damage than what you'll get out of a war spider.COmpared to ranger they are higher damage against everything. and they don't lose SOOOOOOO much if they aren't in cover, and almost always have that -1 to hit. While in cover they can be as tough as rangers per point getting that 2+ save. They also maintain the deep strike options that rangers can get access too.

They are also really mobile with flicker jump. While they come just short against dire avengers in most damage catagories

Are they worth thinking about or do they fall short??

I'm curious about the outcome of this question, as it may well lead to a new entry on the Tactica. I haven't gotten around to looking at Warp Spiders since the codex dropped.

mmimzie wrote:
What do you folks think of alaitoc warp spiders as that character screen.

Similar to bringing a wave serpent. Points wise it does a bit more damage than what you'll get out of a war spider.COmpared to ranger they are higher damage against everything. and they don't lose SOOOOOOO much if they aren't in cover, and almost always have that -1 to hit. While in cover they can be as tough as rangers per point getting that 2+ save. They also maintain the deep strike options that rangers can get access too.

They are also really mobile with flicker jump. While they come just short against dire avengers in most damage catagories

Are they worth thinking about or do they fall short??

I like Shadow Spectres more. Better guns, more versatile. You pay a bit more and can't deepstrike innately, but it's worth it.

Spiders would be a lot more competitive with a 5ppm higher price tag and an extra shot on their guns.

 ph34r wrote:
Hey blasphemous xenos ERR I mean Fellow Pointy Eared Space Brethren!

How does a Mechanicus / Astra Militarum / Imperial opponent actually go about killing one of our wonderful Scorpion Superheavy Tank (Alaitoc for -1 to be hit) ?

Dragoons WIth strategem to give them +2 to hit. Can get off turn 1 charges with stretgia or whatever dogma. Deep strike stratagem for dakabots with stratagem to auto go into double tap mode gets into 12" range turn 1 and turns off alaitoc completely.

Astra millitarum. Valkyrie with a special weapons squad/Command squad/ commpany command loaded up with melta and ordered to the teeth can drop in and since i believe it's still a deployment they can walk closer to turn 1 get into melta range and put some serious damage down. Plasma can also get within that 12" bubble and double tap overcharged plasma.

Space marine stormtalon gunship can take advantage of flying to get close and put in some serious damage, against alaitoc stops existing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fafnir wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
What do you folks think of alaitoc warp spiders as that character screen.

Similar to bringing a wave serpent. Points wise it does a bit more damage than what you'll get out of a war spider.COmpared to ranger they are higher damage against everything. and they don't lose SOOOOOOO much if they aren't in cover, and almost always have that -1 to hit. While in cover they can be as tough as rangers per point getting that 2+ save. They also maintain the deep strike options that rangers can get access too.

They are also really mobile with flicker jump. While they come just short against dire avengers in most damage catagories

Are they worth thinking about or do they fall short??

I like Shadow Spectres more. Better guns, more versatile. You pay a bit more and can't deepstrike innately, but it's worth it.

Spiders would be a lot more competitive with a 5ppm higher price tag and an extra shot on their guns.

The math hammer shows me that durability wise spectre's are lower on the spectrum. I haven't run gun damage for them yet because i ignore the existance of forge world passively lol, and the calcuation is abit tougher. Give me a moment to calculate that.

Edit: Gun damage calcs
.0321 MEQwounds/pts at long range
.0479 MEQwounds/pts at show range

Definitely higher gun damage than you get out of the warp spider squad:
.0272 MEQwounds/pts

Dire avengers to compare:
.0313

So definitly the spectres are the higher damage options while the warp spiders are the more durable option:

Bolter shots to kill in cover per points for a squad with exarch (alaitoc): (higher is better)
Spectres 1.479
Spiders: 1.65 (mind you ~1/36 chance a model dies each time they get shot and you flicker)
Dire avengers: .563

Also both those above numbers are tougher than a death guard model.

mmimzie wrote:


The math hammer shows me that durability wise spectre's are lower on the spectrum. I haven't run gun damage for them yet because i ignore the existance of forge world passively lol, and the calcuation is abit tougher. Give me a moment to calculate that.

Edit: Gun damage calcs
.0321 MEQwounds/pts at long range
.0479 MEQwounds/pts at show range

Definitely higher gun damage than you get out of the warp spider squad:
.0272 MEQwounds/pts

Dire avengers to compare:
.0313

So definitly the spectres are the higher damage options while the warp spiders are the more durable option:

Bolter shots to kill in cover per points for a squad with exarch (alaitoc): (higher is better)
Spectres 1.479
Spiders: 1.65 (mind you ~1/36 chance a model dies each time they get shot and you flicker)
Dire avengers: .563

Also both those above numbers are tougher than a death guard model.

Interesting that Spiders are the more durable option. As they're also cheaper I wonder if they have a use in a mixed spider/specter list.


On another note, would people find it useful if the Tactica had a section for each unit that showed some kind of standardised damage/point or durability stats? All with some kind of standard average, so I guess it would be "number of bolter shots to kill" or something.

edit: And another question, or rather a request for feedback -
on this page Special Rules I have done two tester layout for the rules. They are in the "General Rules" section at the top:

- one under the "Relics" tab (just plain text with some formatting) = looks fine on desktop, but on mobile it becomes a lot of text to scroll through.

- the other is in the "Warlord Traits" tab (a nested set of Accordions) = Takes up same screen space as normal text on desktop, but on mobile it takes up much less space. Means opening/closing accordians to read things though.

Which should I stick with for doing the rest of the special rules do you think? Answers on a postcard, I'm going to bed now so I won't be continuing until tomorrow evening

Played a game earlier with my beil-tan, just wanted to share some stuff.

1. Farseer with Fortune and Doom, as well as the Beil-tan warlord trait "Natural Leader" and a unit of 3 warwalkers each with 2 eldar missile launchers = one he'll of a fire base. Even moving doesn't matter to these guys with natural leader keeping them hitting.

2 Wraithlords with dual bright lances, 2 flamers, and 1 with the glaive the other with Fists, followed by an Avatar of Kaine and a farseer on foot with Guide / Executioner. These guys made up my forward pressure / close combat hammer, and boy were they a giant distraction. They killed a Tervigon, Trygon Prime, and 20 Termagaunts during the course of the game and were about to kill a Tyranofex but the game ended. Talk about brutal.

3. Dire Avengers are awesome. I took 2 squads of 10 and a squad of 5 that made up my buffer zone behind the Wraithlords and Avatar but in front of the Warwalkers. They don't disappoint with Beil-tan rerolls.

4. Only thing that actually disappointed me were my banshees. I charged a squad of genestealers with a unit of 10 banshees and maybe it was just my rolls but only killed 4 genestealers, which then turned around and ate the banshees for lunch. Still, I like them so will try them again. Maybe just not use them against genestealers and leave them to the dire avengers to just shoot.


All and all I must say wow, Eldar play just like I remember them. Too many threats to take on at once and lots of tricks up their sleeves. Casting Quickness onto the banshees with their large movement and charge range was cool too.

Spiders and Spectres are just as durable as one another (except in melee, where the Spectres also get their -1 to be hit, while Spiders don't.), it's just that Spiders cost less, so they're more efficient when you actually start losing those bodies.

As far as function goes, they both have their uses.

Spectres will put out slightly more hits of higher quality (AP-3) per model up to 18", and benefit from to hit buffs more, thanks to their exploding hits. Moreover, if they get close, their damage output gets a lot higher against 4+ saves and worse (and considerably higher than the Spiders).

That said, Spiders are not without their perks. Their mobility, while somewhat unpredictable, is on average going to be higher than that of the Spectres, allowing them to cover more distance. While the longer range on the Spectres' guns mitigates a lot of this difference for offensive purposes, it makes the Spiders better at quickly jumping onto further away objectives (just be prepared in case you roll poorly on their jump). The ability to deepstrike them also means you can have them start in a position where they're immediately threatening, and means that they can't be shot at until you've gotten a chance to do something with them.

Spiders are better at denying deepstrike assaults, since their higher base shot count at 9"+ means they'll do more damage in overwatch against deepstriking foes. Spectres, on the other hand, excel at denying charges within 8" thanks to their heavy flamer fire mode. Spiders are better for space denial, Spectres are better for bodyguarding.

Spiders are better at doing damage in CC, thanks to their Exarch's access to power blades, but realistically, you'd never really want to take them, and never want to put them in an offensive CC position to begin with. Spectres, however, are far better at surviving in CC thanks to their -1 to be hit carrying over to close combat. This makes Spectres far superior mobile tarpits. Moreover, their higher base movement means that Spiders do a better job of getting in to tarpit enemy units, although Spiders can also deepstrike in a pinch for the assault, although it is risky. That said, both units have access to a solid 3+ save that makes them okay at tarpitting enemies with weak CC tools.

Basically, I get the feeling that Spiders will function better as smaller harassing and area control units, while Spectres will perform better with greater investment (and the nature of their exploding hits means they'll get more out of support than Spiders will) as actual offensive pieces. They share some functionality, with the Spectres being more capable of stepping into the dual role than the Spiders, but that's what you get for a higher price tag. It relegates Spiders to a narrower position where they need to be run as cheaply as possible, but both units strike me as being solid options for their costs.

Azuza001 wrote:
Only thing that actually disappointed me were my banshees. I charged a squad of genestealers

Banshees are all about their power swords, so anything that is either very cheap and has above average toughness (orks) or has invul (genestealers) is not right target for them. Ideally you want things like devastators, but you might as well roll those 5 or 6 against bigger monster without invul and get it down instead, while keeping banshees alive due to -1 to hit and taking back less attacks since big weapons with high Damage would be wasted on them. Wounded monster would also decrease it's chance to hit against banshees even more due to degeneration table. And you want Executioners. The more the better.

Is it me, or Asurmen+Dire Avengers+Protect gives a super tanky unit for its points? Throw into cover for 2+/3++ of Storm Shield Terminator win.
It could also be done with Dark Reapers for a 2+/4++ outside of cover.
Considering the 6 aura of Asurmen, it could be used both on a 10+ Dire Avengers screen and a 5+ Dark Reapers units for a surprisingly resilient firebase (add Yvraine in the middle for WoTP shenanigans

Maybe not super competitive, but it could be strong in casual games. The CC potential of Asurmen is not wholly wasted as he could counterattack when the inevitable assault comes.

Edit: I meant the Avengers, not Asurmen. He is a tank by itself.

Eldrad with friendly Warlock can also stand his own with flat 2++. Unless something states he can't or will FAQ it out.

Anyone wondered if Forewarned stratagem works with Linked Fire?

Linked fire has to be against the declared target. As Forewarned is against a unit DS onto the board, they won’t be a previously marked target.

I think it's more about that only one of the units gets the right to shoot using Forewarned, not multiple.

Drake003 wrote:
Linked fire has to be against the declared target. As Forewarned is against a unit DS onto the board, they won’t be a previously marked target.

I think the main reason it doesn't work is that you spend the CP to Forewarn a single Prism, so a second Prism would not be eligible to even use Linked Fire.

Azuza001 wrote:
Played a game earlier with my beil-tan, just wanted to share some stuff.

1. Farseer with Fortune and Doom, as well as the Beil-tan warlord trait "Natural Leader" and a unit of 3 warwalkers each with 2 eldar missile launchers = one he'll of a fire base. Even moving doesn't matter to these guys with natural leader keeping them hitting.

I'm assuming you're fortune and doom-ing the warwalkers, but I thought that when they were on the table they were independent units, so you could only fortune/doom a single warwalker not the whole group. Which isn't great, and you'd probably be better off dropping the farseer and taking a 4th walker.

I might be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

2 Wraithlords with dual bright lances, 2 flamers, and 1 with the glaive the other with Fists, followed by an Avatar of Kaine and a farseer on foot with Guide / Executioner. These guys made up my forward pressure / close combat hammer, and boy were they a giant distraction. They killed a Tervigon, Trygon Prime, and 20 Termagaunts during the course of the game and were about to kill a Tyranofex but the game ended. Talk about brutal.

Interesting, Wraithlords from the Index (and from 7th...and 6th... and probably before) were generally seen as pretty terrible unless you went for the cheapest bare-bones loadout. Though after the drop in weapons costs, it'd be interesting to see if more people use them with decent heavy weapon options. A couple bright-lances and a sword is a pretty satisfying loadout.

Niiru wrote:
Interesting, Wraithlords from the Index (and from 7th...and 6th... and probably before) were generally seen as pretty terrible unless you went for the cheapest bare-bones loadout. Though after the drop in weapons costs, it'd be interesting to see if more people use them with decent heavy weapon options. A couple bright-lances and a sword is a pretty satisfying loadout.

Wraithlords are OK as they have +1T, +1A and the heavy weapons have generally come down in price. Various builds are viable but probably the best option is to keep them cheap with 2 Shuricats, 2 Shuricannons and a Glaive. Move them quickly towards the enemy and Advance every turn until you reach charge range and then hurl them into combat. The other option is to run without Glaive and give them either Brightlances or Starcannons. Then have them loiter in your backfield for fire-support and also to babysit any Reapers, Rangers or Objective holders.

The basic problem is that the "classic" Eldar heavy weapons don't always synergise well with the platforms they are mounted on. Most of them suffer the -1 to Hit for moving and since Eldar are a mobile army, Shuricannons look more attractive. Also, leaving behind Starcannons or Brightlances doesn't necessarily leave a hole in your capabilities if you have Reapers, Frire Prisms, Wraithguard and Fire Dragons for MEQ killing and tank-busting.

The brightlance is an awkward, single-shot anti-tank weapon in a list that has plentiful access to AP-3 or above weapons. Maybe I would consider starcannons over Shuricannons if I knew i was facing MEQs.

2 Wraithlords with dual bright lances, 2 flamers, and 1 with the glaive the other with Fists, followed by an Avatar of Kaine and a farseer on foot with Guide / Executioner. These guys made up my forward pressure / close combat hammer, and boy were they a giant distraction. They killed a Tervigon, Trygon Prime, and 20 Termagaunts during the course of the game and were about to kill a Tyranofex but the game ended. Talk about brutal.

How did they catch all those units? WLs and Avatar are not exactly fast moving. Did your opponent fight them straight up?

Niiru wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Played a game earlier with my beil-tan, just wanted to share some stuff.

1. Farseer with Fortune and Doom, as well as the Beil-tan warlord trait "Natural Leader" and a unit of 3 warwalkers each with 2 eldar missile launchers = one he'll of a fire base. Even moving doesn't matter to these guys with natural leader keeping them hitting.

I'm assuming you're fortune and doom-ing the warwalkers, but I thought that when they were on the table they were independent units, so you could only fortune/doom a single warwalker not the whole group. Which isn't great, and you'd probably be better off dropping the farseer and taking a 4th walker.

I might be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

2 Wraithlords with dual bright lances, 2 flamers, and 1 with the glaive the other with Fists, followed by an Avatar of Kaine and a farseer on foot with Guide / Executioner. These guys made up my forward pressure / close combat hammer, and boy were they a giant distraction. They killed a Tervigon, Trygon Prime, and 20 Termagaunts during the course of the game and were about to kill a Tyranofex but the game ended. Talk about brutal.

Interesting, Wraithlords from the Index (and from 7th...and 6th... and probably before) were generally seen as pretty terrible unless you went for the cheapest bare-bones loadout. Though after the drop in weapons costs, it'd be interesting to see if more people use them with decent heavy weapon options. A couple bright-lances and a sword is a pretty satisfying loadout.

I just double checked in case I did something wrong or missed something and in the codex and there is nothing in there for warwalkers that states they act independent of each other after deployment, so they are a single unit of 3 that must keep squad coherency, so when the power fortune targets a unit all 3 get the bonus. And that means the tactic effects all 3, so yep, 6d6 rerolling all misses s4 ap-1 missile shots at swarms that are "doomed" are super effective. Or 6 str 8 ap-2 again, that's one dead / wounded Tank or big bug.

I found that T8 on the wraithlords really helped keep them alive, and the fact that they were popping off 4 brightlance shots even with the minus to hit they were getting at least 2 wounds on the big tyrnaids I was shooting at, and as the targets didn't have an invulnerable save the -4 Ap ment they were just going right through. Which scared my opponent so again they were forced to make a choice, wraithlords or eldar missile launchers. And no matter the choice my units had what they needed. They decided to deal with the Warwalkers, killing 2 of the 3 in the end, but then the Warwalkers were there with 4d6 flamer shots auto killing, buh bye genestealers. And 4 brightlance shots, dealing 7 more wounds to Tervigon, and then the avatar charged finishing it off, after that they had a broodlord at 3 wounds, 3 genestealers, a lucky hormagaunt that just wouldn't die, and a Tyranofex
So, not enough to deal with the wraithlords and Avatar (plus I was saying 3 command points in case for the avatar to keep it alive).

I honestly don't even care about the autarch crap at the moment, I have never had an eldar fight that went to plan so well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

2 Wraithlords with dual bright lances, 2 flamers, and 1 with the glaive the other with Fists, followed by an Avatar of Kaine and a farseer on foot with Guide / Executioner. These guys made up my forward pressure / close combat hammer, and boy were they a giant distraction. They killed a Tervigon, Trygon Prime, and 20 Termagaunts during the course of the game and were about to kill a Tyranofex but the game ended. Talk about brutal.

How did they catch all those units? WLs and Avatar are not exactly fast moving. Did your opponent fight them straight up?

Tyrnaid force that was focused mostly on close range, so she tried to hit them head on and overwhelm them like she has done before to my dreadnoughts, but as she learned Eldar are not like marines. I doubt she will let me get that close next time lol.

On another note next time I think I will replace the bright lances with shuriken cannons, being able to advance and still shoot with rerolling 1's for Beil-tan should be pretty effective and cheaper.

'8 is somewhat faster than average. And Avatar can theoretically move up to '15 (without charging) if you give him a warlord trait & use stratagem. Really, against melee army that can't slow WLs down by wounding them from afar, they're at advantage. And against things that are lower than S9 too I think.

The brightlance is an awkward, single-shot anti-tank weapon

It's not old editions anymore where you shoot 12 lances and get 5 crew shakens. Brightlance is a fine weapon which wounds most medium vehicles on 3+ and doesn't allow a save like Lascannon. And unlike things like FDs, you can't screen behind infantry and stuff against lances. Crimson Hunters, Serpents with lances, Guided WWs are all good. Wraithlords with lances can work with Spiritseer & 1CP stratagem for re-roll everything '12 bubble.

I was heavily biased against lances for a while (dat game in 6th I once had when I shot hammerhead for 3 turns with WWs with lances to strip it to half of hp lol). But after trying Crimson hunter, I began putting lances on lots of things.

If I could only make an army of shuriken catapults, lances & power swords, I'd do that.

On another note next time I think I will replace the bright lances with shuriken cannons, being able to advance and still shoot with rerolling 1's for Beil-tan should be pretty effective and cheaper.

Try loading all 3 WLs in Iyanden, bringing Spiritseer with Faolchu's Wing & popping Guided Wraithsight stratagem. Free Guides for everyone.

 Shadenuat wrote:

The brightlance is an awkward, single-shot anti-tank weapon

It's not old editions anymore where you shoot 12 lances and get 5 crew shakens. Brightlance is a fine weapon which wounds most medium vehicles on 3+ and doesn't allow a save like Lascannon. And unlike things like FDs, you can't screen behind infantry and stuff against lances. Crimson Hunters, Serpents with lances, Guided WWs are all good. Wraithlords with lances can work with Spiritseer & 1CP stratagem for re-roll everything '12 bubble.

I was heavily biased against lances for a while (dat game I once had when I shot hammerhead for 3 turns with WWs with lances to strip it to half of hp lol). But after trying Crimson hunter, I began putting lances on lots of things.

And to add to your point, Lances are 5pts cheaper than Lascannons, have better AP and not many targets care about the difference between S8 or 9.
Lascannons are considered one of the best weapons in 8th edition (and are probably the main reason WKs are considered to easy to take down).
So how can Bright lances be considered bad when they are objectively better that one of the best weapons in this edition?

-

Azuza001 wrote:


I just double checked in case I did something wrong or missed something and in the codex and there is nothing in there for warwalkers that states they act independent of each other after deployment, so they are a single unit of 3 that must keep squad coherency, so when the power fortune targets a unit all 3 get the bonus.

You are totally correct. How strange. This actually increases my opinion of war walkers as it means they can take buffs from psychic abilities the same as Vypers can. Vypers get the benefit of craftworld attributes though, but even so I think war walkers pull ahead (if you have a psyker near them).

Might even be good to have a warlock nearby, conceal would give the war walkers the equivalent of the Alaitoc -1 to hit, or protect/jinx could improve your invulnerable to a 4++ or drop the enemy unit's saves if they get close enough.

And another question, or rather a request for feedback -
on this page Special Rules I have done two tester layout for the rules. They are in the "General Rules" section at the top:

- one under the "Relics" tab (just plain text with some formatting) = looks fine on desktop, but on mobile it becomes a lot of text to scroll through.

- the other is in the "Warlord Traits" tab (a nested set of Accordions) = Takes up same screen space as normal text on desktop, but on mobile it takes up much less space. Means opening/closing accordians to read things though.

Which should I stick with for doing the rest of the special rules do you think? Answers on a postcard, I'm going to bed now so I won't be continuing until tomorrow evening

And I'm re-posting this question for everyone, because I'm about to start writing up the stratagems etc and I don't want to have to re-do it all if it ends up in a format everyone finds annoying lmao.

Giving some thought to a list, not intending to be super competitive or cheesey. Things still seem very expensive



Any thoughts? I think it's solid but might struggle against melee heavy armies since not much I have can fight in combat. I did consider two wraithblades instead of the Scytheguard, but they are really too good to pass up.

 Galef wrote:

And to add to your point, Lances are 5pts cheaper than Lascannons, have better AP and not many targets care about the difference between S8 or 9.
Lascannons are considered one of the best weapons in 8th edition (and are probably the main reason WKs are considered to easy to take down).
So how can Bright lances be considered bad when they are objectively better that one of the best weapons in this edition?

I would have said that lascannons are generally better than bright lances. The extra range means you'll almost never have to move to shoot what you want, whereas bright lances will typically have to move turn 1 to shoot something deep inside your opponent's deployment zone. There's actually quite a lot that cares about the difference between S8 and S9, and there's also a bunch of stuff that doesn't care about the difference between AP-3 and AP-4 (and this is typically only a 20-25% improvement anyway whereas the lascannon is 33% better vs T8). Plus Eldar already have great options for killing T7 whereas T8 can be tricky -- fusion guns and shuriken catapults care a lot about the T7 to T8 jump.

But the bigger issue for bright lances is just that there aren't many good platforms for them. You can't take something like a quad-las Predator, or a Dreadnought with a twin lascannon and a missile launcher, or a Devastator squad holed up in cover. Bright lance platforms are generally very fragile or else really want to be moving every turn because they're paying for a lot more than just the bright lances. Crimson Hunters look to me like the only unit that you're really thrilled to take bright lances on, and while they're good at their new price they'll probably get benched in favor of the Hemlock.

Wayniac wrote:
Giving some thought to a list, not intending to be super competitive or cheesey. Things still seem very expensive

Spoiler:

Craftworlds - Battalion Detachment
Attribute: Alaitoc

+HQ+
Farseer - 105
- Singing Spear
- Guide, Doom

Spiritseer - 45
- Conceal/Reveal

+Troops+
10x Dire Avengers - 140
- Exarch w/Power glaive and Shimmershield

10x Guardian Defenders - 95
- Shuriken Cannon

10x Guardian Defenders - 95
- Shuriken Cannon

+Elites+
5x Wraithguard - 225
- D-Scythes

5x Wraithblades - 175
- Ghostswords

+Heavy Support+
Fire Prism - 170
- Shuriken Cannon
- Crystal Targeting Matrix

3x War Walkers - 270
- 2x Brightlance

+Dedicated Transport+
Wave Serpent - 134
- Shuriken Cannon
- Twin Shuriken Cannon

-----

Craftworlds - Spearhead Detachment
Attribute: Alaitoc

+HQ+
Autarch w/Swooping Hawk Wings - 104
- Fusion Pistol
- Power Sword *Shard of Anaris*
- Mandiblasters
- Forceshield

+Heavy Support+
5x Dark Reapers - 140
- Exarch w/Tempest Launcher

Wraithlord - 151
- Ghostglaive
- 2x Flamers
- 2x Shuriken Cannon

Wraithlord - 151
- Ghostglaive
- 2x Flamers
- 2x Shuriken Cannon

TOTAL: 2000/2000 (104 PL)

Any thoughts? I think it's solid but might struggle against melee heavy armies since not much I have can fight in combat. I did consider two wraithblades instead of the Scytheguard, but they are really too good to pass up.

I would try to fit a second Fire Prism in somewhere. Pulsed laser discharge is nice but it's Linked Fire that makes Fire Prisms so devastating now.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Galef wrote:

And to add to your point, Lances are 5pts cheaper than Lascannons, have better AP and not many targets care about the difference between S8 or 9.
Lascannons are considered one of the best weapons in 8th edition (and are probably the main reason WKs are considered to easy to take down).
So how can Bright lances be considered bad when they are objectively better that one of the best weapons in this edition?

I would have said that lascannons are generally better than bright lances. The extra range means you'll almost never have to move to shoot what you want, whereas bright lances will typically have to move turn 1 to shoot something deep inside your opponent's deployment zone. There's actually quite a lot that cares about the difference between S8 and S9, and there's also a bunch of stuff that doesn't care about the difference between AP-3 and AP-4 (and this is typically only a 20-25% improvement anyway whereas the lascannon is 33% better vs T8). Plus Eldar already have great options for killing T7 whereas T8 can be tricky -- fusion guns and shuriken catapults care a lot about the T7 to T8 jump.

But the bigger issue for bright lances is just that there aren't many good platforms for them. You can't take something like a quad-las Predator, or a Dreadnought with a twin lascannon and a missile launcher, or a Devastator squad holed up in cover. Bright lance platforms are generally very fragile or else really want to be moving every turn because they're paying for a lot more than just the bright lances. Crimson Hunters look to me like the only unit that you're really thrilled to take bright lances on, and while they're good at their new price they'll probably get benched in favor of the Hemlock.

I'll agree with you on the platform issue, but all the "weaknesses" you just described only really apply if you are fighting tank-heavy Imperial Guard. That's 1 build of 1 faction.
All my prior statements hold true against 90% of the other armies an Eldar player would face, which would have mostly T7 at best and would want to be withing 36" of your army 9so that they can also shoot and/or assault)

-

I agree about platforms, but really, things which are not worth to take for lances are generally not worth to take for any other heavy weapon as well. It's not like you're happier for a Vyper or Falcon with AML than one with lance.

With Tyranids our soon, and all their anti psychic options, it seems that they are going to be putting a spanner in the works for as straight away, trying to cast our various buff and de-buff powers.

Depending on the army composition and weapon options encouraged in the Codex, I am going to assume that they won’t have too many flying gribblies (it’s not particularly thematic) and will likely be limited to Gargoyles and Hive Tyrants, as is currently the case.

That being the case, finding ways to slow their advance will be even more critical than before to keep out psychic support up as long as possible.

My first strategic thought is using Air Wing to stop a significant section of their army moving up the board.

I.e. fly 3 Hemlocks up just outside of 12” if Exocrines and their ilk, and as close to the grunts as possible. 3 flyers in a line parallel to the swarm facing 90 degrees and just under 3” apart from each other will generate an impassable line of just under 20” long.

This would be an effective way of shutting down lanes of approach to you.

Sound decent?